From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #203 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Wednesday, July 24 2002 Volume 02 : Number 203 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Who Should Play Wonder Woman ["Daniel T. Miller" <] [chakram-refugees] Re: Mind over Muscle [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Coffee Talk--Kit #5 [cr ] Re: Mind over Muscle (was Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr > [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Let Universal know you want X:WP on DVD! [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Buffy & Xena (os) [Trek4u269@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Buffy & Xena (os) ["S. Wilson" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 23:42:18 -0500 From: "Daniel T. Miller" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Who Should Play Wonder Woman On Wed, 10 Jul 2002 22:51:40 -0400 meredith writes: > Hi, > > cheryla wondered: > > >here's a question for the list - what would like to see lucy do? > > Oooh, that's a good one. > > I'd like to see her do something theatrical ... for instance, I love the > fact that ROC is currently playing Lady Macbeth in a summer stock theater > production. That is just so cool (and dammit, I wish I could see > it!). I'd love to see Lucy tackle Shakespeare ... like Desdemona, for > instance (_Othello_ has long been my favorite Shakespeare play). Or > Rosalind in _As You Like It_. Yeah, Rosalind would be great. And there is bit early in the script, when she says something about how she can fool people, dressed as man, because she is so tall. Midsummer's-- Lucy as Titania, Ted as Bottom, Michael as Puck while doubling as Theseus. I have trouble reading Othello--it seems every other page, Othello refers to how good Iago is--after about the tenth time my eyes began to roll--and I kept thing--yeah, yeah, I got the irony, Will. (But one of my ten favorite movies is A Double Life--Ronald Colman as a Broadway star whose performance of Othello turns him into a killer.) Desdemona is so damn good, it would certainly be a great stretch for Lucy, hard to play someone who is that open and honest and loving. Don't you think Tony Todd would make a great Othello? How about Lucy starring in Twelfth Night? Could one of her brothers play her twin? :~) ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:08:11 +1200 From: cr Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: Mind over Muscle On Tuesday 23 July 2002 03:47, HawkFalco@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/22/02 3:43:38 AM, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > >I *still* say Xena, evil or not, could take Cyane, any time. *But* of > >course, we'll never know. > > If you will allow me to jump in here... > Has it been mentioned, Cyane handily whooped Xena's behind on their first > meeting? Xena was in a very bad position until Borias stepped in and saved > her by persuading the Amazon Queen to let Xena go. > Knowing what we do about Amazon law I am sure that Xena's invasion of the > Queen's private space was a capitol offense so we could say Xena was > fighting for her life and lost that round. I wondered when someone would bring that up. Yeah, quite true. Many things seem to have been a capital offense with the Amazons, including just being on the wrong side of a power struggle (e.g. The Quest). Even if Livia hadn't destroyed them, maybe they would have wiped themselves out, given time. Quarrelsome bunch. ;) > As Xena gained skills and experience with time I am sure she could have > been a match for Cyane even in a fair fight. But as you say, we will never > know. > > Hawk IMO, Xena was, I think, taken unawares by how good Cyane was on their first encounter. But she was a very fast learner, I think by the time of her Amazon massacre she could have beaten Cyane head on. IMO and of course (as we all keep saying) we'll never know. ;) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:19:27 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Coffee Talk--Kit #5 On Tuesday 23 July 2002 06:44, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/21/2002 11:32:11 PM Central Daylight Time, > > jyoung@lava.net writes: > > I was surprised to see LL so brazenly check Juju's diapers in front of > > (not national TV, but close to it ;P ) all the cameras, but I guess like > > ROC says, she can be "loopy". ;P [BG] > > I'm not sure that's an example of her being "loopy" as it *may* reflect a > different cultural attitude toward "natural" activities, such as those > involving babies (e.g., pregancy, home birthing, breast feeding, changing > diapers), all of which she did as Xena and seems to be comfortable with > IRL. Less self-consciousness about one's "image" also seems to be somewhat > of a Kiwi trait. Seemed quite normal to me. LL probably did it automatically without even thinking that the camera was there. > Personally, I found it quite nice that she'd be more > attuned to her son's needs than to the camera. Of course, poor "Juju" may > have a different opinion when he's old enough to see this. > > -- Ife Yeah, what a way to make one's show-business debut. 8-) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:25:55 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: Mind over Muscle (was Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Tuesday 23 July 2002 06:45, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/22/2002 5:43:24 AM Central Daylight Time, > > cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > Umm, you said 'altruism' which indicates to me that the person fighting > > doesn't have a personal interest in the result. > > > > Now if you're talking about motivation, or conviction, that's different. > > > > Maybe we're splitting hairs over the meaning of a word?>> > > Yes, I we're talking a motivation where the individual is concerned with > group welfare over or along with personal welfare. Yes, but I think something more than just altruism (as I'd define it) is needed. A definite interest or loyalty or commitment to the group, I think, would be required to really make someone pull out all the stops and do battle, not just a feeling 'I'm doing this for a good cause'. > > > > I disagree. I was talking about traditional warriors (not Hollywood > > ones), >> > > Ah. Then that's where I misunderstood. Even there, I'm certainly not > saying they're portrayed as "dumb," but usually depend extensively on > physical ability or weaponry. > > -- Ife Yes, but usually on skilful use of same, rarely on brute strength, I think. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:52:33 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] << Key To The Kingdom>> On Tuesday 23 July 2002 11:42, Cheryl Ande wrote: > $ > $ > $ > $ > $ > $ > $ > > You know this was a better episode than I remembered. I has some funny > moments and a nice performances by Bruce Campbell, Ted Raimi, and Lucy. I could never understand why so many people actively disliked it. For a Xena-lite ep I thought it was OK. > Gabrielle is on vacation since she isn't in > this episode (ROC was filming a Hercules episode). I'd forgotten that. Now that explains rather a lot in terms of likes and dislikes, I think. :) > What makes this episode worth watching is the soft mushy center. (snip) > The last scene between Xena and Meg is especially well done. A serious > ending to a comedy Meg confesses that she can never have children and > Xena tries to cheer her up by telling her there is a child out there for > her. I don't normally go for sentiment, but I have to admit, that ending got to me. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 23:08:32 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Let Universal know you want X:WP on DVD! On Tuesday 23 July 2002 12:34, Daniel T. Miller wrote: > > Plus, I reading a comic book zine about a year ago from an anime > collector, > who instead of buying multi -region DVD player, bought a player from a > dealer, who gave him a "cheat sheet" that enabled him to program the > region 1 player to play Japanese DVDs. Can't remember if that meant > afterwards > he could play both regions. And it was a specific brand. Don't know how > many DVD > players this applies to--I still have the zine around, I could dig it > out, if anyone > is interested in the info. > This is kinda OT but.... DVD players are, basically, computers - that is to say, they work more like a PC than like a VCR. So on some models the whole software can be downloaded off the Internet and loaded into your DVD player, just like upgrading the operating system on a PC - if you're brave enough. Needless to say this voids your warranty . Sampo players are well-known for being multi-region programmable, see Area450.com for heaps of info and details. Some players will allow switching to 'multi-region', that is, no region specified, which will normally play DVD's from any region. To defeat that, some of the latest Region 1 DVD's apparently have the first track set to be readable by a Region 2 player and what it does is tell the player not to play the DVD. Nasty! So to defeat that, the player has to be switchable to specific regions. Apparently (so I've been told) the whole reason for this 'Region' business is the high cost of making prints of movies for cinema release - it can cost many thousands of bucks per print - so the studios stagger the worldwide release so that after the US run, the exact same prints can be shipped overseas for foreign release. And of course they don't want foreign movie sales undercut by DVD 'leakage'. Hopefully, the development of DVD's themselves will make it possible to distribute movies cheaply on DVD, thus allowing simultaneous release and removing the main reason for this 'Region' business. But that hasn't happened yet. cr ... the happy owner of a Sampo... ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 03:03:15 -0700 (PDT) From: "S. Wilson" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Let Universal know you want X:WP on DVD! cr wrote: <> Until someone from another region comes along, rips the DVD, reencodes it as VCD and sticks it on Kazaa or something, then the person who grabs it remasters it and burns it onto disc, so it'll play on their own DVD. Yep. Not that I've done this. *coff, coff* S. ===== == . . . Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 00:29:27 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Let Universal know you want X:WP on DVD! On Tuesday 23 July 2002 22:03, S. Wilson wrote: > > Until someone from another region comes along, rips the DVD, reencodes > it as VCD and sticks it on Kazaa or something, then the person who > grabs it remasters it and burns it onto disc, so it'll play on their > own DVD. Yep. Not that I've done this. *coff, coff* > > S. > Well of course, and besides that is a fairly elaborate procedure which the average viewer wouldn't bother to do.... Just like I've never used the 'hidden menus' on my DVD player to turn M*crov*sion off.... ;-) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:39:01 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena touching Gabrielle > I rarely re-watch Xena-lite eps, but I sacrificed for the cause by looking > for touching in Prodigal. Okay, so that meant I could fast-forward through > everything except the first and last few minutes. Heh. LOL! I actually pulled this out recently because md was talking about a beautifully acted moment by Lucy in the beginning. And I gotta concur. When she does that little, "Oh no, g'head leave, it's no problem" look, it is just so furken REAL. This is what I love about Lucy's acting--when she absolutely catches gestures and facial expressions that humans really make without it appearing to be artificially reproduced. It's an amazing talent. I've seen Stockard Channing and Shirly McLain pull this off also. But it's very rare. Anyway, here goes: > > 1. In the beginning, X pulls on, then trips G so they can hit the ground > when the bandits send that bazooka cart their way. > > 2. G pats X on the stomach at the end after they meet up again. > > -- Ife The touches I remember the most ('cause I thought they were really cute) were when there would be danger and Xena would either slip in front of Gab or Gab would come over and slip behind Xena. And the image was of Xena being a shield for Gabrielle who ALWAYS peered out from behind her to see what was going on. And usually also put her hand on Xena's lower back/upper butt when she did this. I've seen scared kids do this--they need a little contact with their protector, be it mommy or a murdering but reforming warlord. Chimpanzees when they are scared but excited grab their own or another chimp's genitals. Now if they had used that gesture in XWP, it sure would have been memorable, (I doubt we'd need any reminders about THAT scene) but alas, I guess our culture has screened our our primitive urges in that situation. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:43:52 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena touching Gabrielle > ATHENS CITYACADEMY OF THE PERFORMING BARDS: Another Xena-lite ep, so not > much happening. How true...Oh wait--you meant in the touching body count department, not just in general, eh? (Grin.) > > [On a side note regarding the discussion of G's barding skills, there were at > least four times when G's various audiences enthusiastically applauded her, > three times when "those in the know" (e.g., senior bard, judges, other > contestants) stuck up for her talents, one instance when she moved the judges > (even those who wanted to throw her out) to tears, and 3-4 other bards whom > she inspired (including Homer). Seemed pretty impressive to me.] > HA! Thought you'd sneak this little riposte to me under a subversively chosen subject line, eh? Ife--Just look at the competition. I think that the tears were probably tears of gratitude that they finally found a competitor who could actually finish a sentence. If this was a sampling of Greek's best bards, in fact a winnowed out sampling, gads, no wonder we have so few fragments of their work left. Salmoneus probably stole an idea from Xener, found masses of them in a used scroll shop on the remaindered table and cut them up and sold them for potty stops. I can just see his advertisements. "Even an old hard-a$$ like Xena prefers these scroll scraps to leaves!" And yeah, you (and Cheryl) just go ahead and treasure the belief that Gab was a fine little storyteller. You just keep telling yourselves that dear. I'm sure Sidney Sheldon's fans feel EXACTLY the same way about his work. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:04:09 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Buffy & Xena (os) This was an excellent thread, so good that I'm keeping a number of posts from it to reread and treasure in my dottage. I'm on another list where any mention of FIN throws about three of the truly damaged people on there into fits of hysterical bashing of Tapert and anyone who DARES to find FIN worthy. I've got half a mind to go throw some of this thread on there....grin. I just want to add: cande@sunlink.net wrote: Now one more point I read Ifae's comment that producers are damned > whatever they do. One wonders if TPTB won't simply abandon presenting > gays or other minorities in film if they are berated by the > constiuencies representing those minorities everytime they make a > dramatic choice they dislike. > If people > insist on seeing insults where none are meant then those who are being > harrassed will simply shy aware from presenting minorites as everyday > characters. > > > CherylA You know when FIN first aired and some people wrote posts condemning Rob for essentially killing Xena just because she was a lesbian and a strong woman too, I wondered the same thing you did for about half a moment. But in the case of Rob, I don't think the response from those people who took that stance will change his mind about gay people in any way. I mean when I see a mean, stupid or flaming post from a gay person, I don't think to myself, "Oh--they're mean, stupid or flaming because they're gay." I just think they are mean, stupid or flaming. I have too many gay friends who are none of these (or only sometimes some of these grin) to feel otherwise. As md said in a beautiful post on the topic, Tapert treated Xena exactly like any other hero. Period. Rob has gay friends, colleagues and employees. I don't think the hysterical fan response from some of the people who disliked FIN will make him turn his back on gay themes or characters in the future and make him write and produce only shows that are determinedly het. Nor run away screaming if anyone finds a touch of same sex sub-text in his productions. However, who knows if there would be any backlash in terms of hesitating to dare venture into this arena from other producers who are not so gay friendly or at least not so brave and tolerant as Tapert? That I still wonder about. But I also think, like all of the other posters on this thread, that if people are upset, they have the right to say so. I wouldn't stop anybody from voicing their opinion about FIN. It's no skin off my nose--but I do reserve the right to disagree with their point of view and do expect the freedom to do so on any list. The stay-in-the-closet mind set hurts everybody--both those who are forced into it in order to not lose their jobs, housing or custody of their children, etc. etc. etc.; and those who want them to stay quietly out of sight, not bothering anybody else by the the fact of their existance. Prisons make monsters out of both inmates and guards. To get back to the original post on this topic, I didn't see much Josh bashing over Tara's death on the Xena lists. But I think that part of the reason for this was that the most egregious of the "Tapert hates dykes" crowd were the same folks who had presented Josh as being "the real deal", having the guts to actually SHOW his characters as gay and not be just trying to squeeze money out of his gay audience while not fully supporting them. Josh therefore was set up by these folks as being the "Anti-Tapert", the one who's sensitive to gay folks needs and concerns. (I HATE it when folks tend to post things and claim "I know I speak for all (fans, gays, hets, whatevers) when I say..." Therefore the folks who would be the first to condemn Josh for killing off his gay character COULDN'T do so on the Xena lists without looking like total fools. Now they may have rampaged on the Buffy lists--I don't watch Buffy and so I don't know about that. I really think this is a large part of the reason that we didn't see a lot of Josh bashing on the Xena lists when he did the deed to Tara. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:17:57 EDT From: Trek4u269@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Buffy & Xena (os) In a message dated 7/23/02 12:04:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes: > You know when FIN first aired and some people wrote posts condemning Rob > for essentially killing Xena just because she was a lesbian and a strong > woman too, I wondered the same thing you did for about half a moment. > I am a black heterosexual male. The definite minority on these lists as well as fantasy genre in general. Am I to be upset because TPTB didnt leave Xena with Draco or Marcus (black men) and instead moved gabrielle from sidekick to Xena companion with strong lesbian subtext. Am I also to be mad because they cancelled cleopatra 2525 and 1 of the 3 main characters was a strong black woman? A rarirty for sci-fi. A person could argue that Xena and Gabrielle were bisexual. Afterall they were both with men and had loved men and even after being togethe they still showed male interest. But perception is in the eye of the beholder. A person could argue that they were polygamist. They can have many loves. Xena and Gabrielle were indeed in love but could have been polyamorous and had many people they had relationships with of either sex.....the philosophy that one can love more than 1 person simulataniously and have their cake and eat it too. Everyone wants to be treated eaual and that means taking the good and the bad of equality.....not playing the race card, gay card, lifestyle card, religion card, etc. And lets not get anyone started on the religion in tv and movies protests (like the xena hindu incident and the biggest one- No romantic interlude in planet of apes movie because a jewish group came on set and said it was beastiality for human and ape woman to "do it"). > > As md said in a beautiful post on the topic, Tapert treated Xena exactly > like any other hero. Period. > Agreed. Is Xena loved because she is a great hero and a good tv show or because she is "gay" hero or just because she is a woman? They called the movies in 70s that cashed in on black audience blacksploitation films.....is this the 90s version with a different audience core? > > To get back to the original post on this topic, I didn't see much Josh > bashing over Tara's death on the Xena lists. But I think that part of the > reason for this was that the most egregious of the "Tapert hates dykes" > crowd were the same folks who had presented Josh as being "the real deal", > having the guts to actually SHOW his characters as gay and not be just > trying to squeeze money out of his gay audience while not fully supporting > them. > And there are those here in hollywood that say Josh used tara to spice up show and gather more viewers in the same vein as Xena. Seth doesnt leave show as Oz and Tara doesnt show up. Seth leaves and they need something to get newer viewers. People I know in industry say same thing when they add a minority character (add a black to get more black viewers). Tv shows and movies are these people's job (not hobby) and they are trying to make money and sell a product and be as successful as possible (and in most cases reach as many different viewers as possible). Unfortunately......pissing people off in a finale does not hurt TPTB. They have ben paid and are done. Secondary markets are doing merchandise , cons, etc. They directly feel the wrath as do the actresses and actors. Xena was a wonderful show with great lead actors and a good supporting cast. It ran it's course on tv and lives with me forever in the form of my xena room, dvds, collectables, props, pics with the stars, etc. AND MOSTLY from the truly wonderful people I have met in the community thru cons, email and these lists. You are truly my extended family of friends. If nothing else Xena brought us all together thanks. Vic ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:15:45 -0700 (PDT) From: "S. Wilson" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Buffy & Xena (os) - --- KTL wrote: > But I also think, like all of the other posters on this thread, that > if > people are upset, they have the right to say so. I wouldn't stop > anybody > from voicing their opinion about FIN. It's no skin off my nose--but > I do > reserve the right to disagree with their point of view and do expect > the > freedom to do so on any list. I agree about 99.9%. I would stop about agreeing that they can voice their FIN-opinion when it contains death threats against Rob or Lucy or PacRen, etc. Which I've seen, and have found deeply, deeply disturbing and frightening. > To get back to the original post on this topic, I didn't see much > Josh > bashing over Tara's death on the Xena lists. But I think that part > of the > reason for this was that the most egregious of the "Tapert hates > dykes" > crowd were the same folks who had presented Josh as being "the real > deal", > having the guts to actually SHOW his characters as gay and not be > just > trying to squeeze money out of his gay audience while not fully > supporting > them. I've seen several bulletin boards of Buffy fans where hatred of Joss for the death of Tara was the theme, and even a rite of passage. There's even a mailing list called the Hate Joss Club. And there's no easy way to say that I tend to stay away from those places, because the negative vibe radiating just from their doorways is enough to kill plants and small animals. I open up one of those sites and it's a flashback to "Ghostbusters" and the fire-breathing beast of Gozer in the refrigerator. > Therefore the folks who would be the first to condemn Josh for > killing off > his gay character COULDN'T do so on the Xena lists without looking > like > total fools. Now they may have rampaged on the Buffy lists Rampage is a pleasant way of putting it. There is one place on the net in particular where condemnation of Joss and Mutant Enemy (the makers) in addition to Rob and PacRen go hand in hand. Again, shiver. (I'm not giving out the URL; I value my life, such as it is. So please nobody write and ask for it.) > --I don't watch > Buffy and so I don't know about that. *drop jaw* Tsk! Tsk tsk! The new season starts September 24th. Tuesday nights on UPN. ;) > I really think this is a large part of the reason that we didn't see > a lot > of Josh bashing on the Xena lists when he did the deed to Tara. Could be. Hadn't really ever thought of that. I've looked at the Joss and Rob bashing from lots of different angles, and have seen arguments on both sides of the spectrum. Can't says I agree with most of 'em, or disagree with all of 'em. But many of them make valid points; however I still believe that FIN was an amazing entry into the annals of the Warrior Princess, and though I didn't want Xena to die, I think it was foreshadowed plenty and I never really expected XnG to be able to settle down and raise warrior babies anyway. That's fanfic - not XWP. S. ===== == . . . Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:00:48 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena touching Gabrielle In a message dated 07/23/2002 12:44:10 PM Central Daylight Time, fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes: > [On a side note regarding the discussion of G's barding skills, there were at > least four times when G's various audiences enthusiastically applauded her, > three times when "those in the know" (e.g., senior bard, judges, other > contestants) stuck up for her talents, one instance when she moved the judges > (even those who wanted to throw her out) to tears, and 3-4 other bards whom > she inspired (including Homer). Seemed pretty impressive to me.] > HA! Thought you'd sneak this little riposte to me under a subversively chosen subject line, eh?>> LOL! Actually, I couldn't remember who was involved in that. Had I known it was you, I'd've been much more obvious -- like, "Hey, KT, You Were Wrong, Wrong, Wrong!" << Ife--Just look at the competition. I think that the tears were probably tears of gratitude that they finally found a competitor who could actually finish a sentence. If this was a sampling of Greek's best bards, in fact a winnowed out sampling, gads, no wonder we have so few fragments of their work left. Salmoneus probably stole an idea from Xener, found masses of them in a used scroll shop on the remaindered table and cut them up and sold them for potty stops. I can just see his advertisements. "Even an old hard-a$$ like Xena prefers these scroll scraps to leaves!" And yeah, you (and Cheryl) just go ahead and treasure the belief that Gab was a fine little storyteller. You just keep telling yourselves that dear. I'm sure Sidney Sheldon's fans feel EXACTLY the same way about his work.>> Quite honestly, I thought one of the issues was whether or not Gab was appreciated in her own time by other Greeks. Whether those listeners had good taste or not wasn't the point of my comments. I was simply saying there seemed to be evidence that she appealed to a variety of audiences, even some presented as knowledgeable. Again, I couldn't care less, since her words (however well written) were the supposed basis for Xena's legend. And Xena seemed to like them, once she read them. So, what's good enough for Xena is good enough for me. Nanananana. Heh. - - Ife (once again demonstrating the maturity befitting her age) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:52:31 EDT From: BElannafan@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] Well bye again [Listowner's note: this bounced to me because of the admin term in the first line. She has already unsubscribed, so please copy her directly on any responses or she won't see them.] Gonna unsub again. Really can't get behind the praises sung to Rob for FIN. Lots of us who feel this way have left Chakram and Chakram Refugees to those of you who predominantly liked FIN. There are many more fans out here who didn't like it than who did. That's just the truth of that. Good for you folks who like FIN. Really. Because you do, it didn't ruin Xean:WP for you. I'm slightly envious but not much. If Xena got treated like any other hero why didn't they chop Hercules' head off, hang His naked, headless body up for Iolus to find and mount His head on a cutting board? ========================================================== Jan V. Great Post-FIN fanfic The Choice ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 23:20:34 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Well bye again Hi, >Gonna *ns*b again. Really can't get behind the praises sung to Rob for FIN. Sorry you feel that way ... >Lots of us who feel this way have left Chakram and Chakram Refugees to those >of you who predominantly liked FIN. There are many more fans out here who >didn't like it than who did. That's just the truth of that. Is that what you got from the results of your poll? Just curious, because I never saw the results posted anywhere. Did the poll give you the results you wanted to see? >Good for you >folks who like FIN. Really. Because you do, it didn't ruin Xean:WP for you. That's true, at least in my case. I wish everyone could say the same, whether they liked FIN or not. Opinion about the finale has become such a divisive issue throughout the Xenaverse that it's threatened to completely overshadow all the good things about being a Xenite. > I'm slightly envious but not much. I'm puzzled by that comment -- it sounds like you are happy you had X:WP ruined for you. ?? That can't be what you mean, though, so I'd be interested in an elaboration. >If Xena got treated like any other hero why didn't they chop Hercules' head >off, hang His naked, headless body up for Iolus to find and mount His head on >a cutting board? Because that's not the story they wanted to tell. But that just brings the argument around to well-worn ground once again. I've found that one's opinion about FIN is like one's opinion on abortion. Both sides are firmly entrenched in their views and are happy to argue them for days on end, yet after all that no one's mind will ever be changed. IMHO, it's best to just accept that not everyone sees things the way you do and go on with your day. But that may just be me. Take care -- hope to see you elsewhere around the Xenaverse. ============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth ============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://www.smoe.org/meth/muzak.html ============================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #203 **************************************