From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #201 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Monday, July 22 2002 Volume 02 : Number 201 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] Non-Gab Touching (was Re: Touching in "...Miss Amphipolis") [IfeRae@] Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: <> [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Non-Gab Touching (was Re: Touching in "...Miss Amphipo... [Trek4u26] [chakram-refugees] Season 1 [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Season 1 [meredith ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [meredith ] RE: [chakram-refugees] Buffy parallelism NCOT ["Lee Daley" > ["Lee Daley" > ["Ann Reddecliffe" > ["Cheryl Ande" ] [chakram-refugees] 7/21 UPDATE/PLEASE READ/Renee/Macbeth schedule change ["Creation (Sharon Delaney)" > [IfeRae@aol.com] Mind over Muscle (was Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [IfeRae@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] Aug. Starlog #301--KSmith ["Jackie M. Young" I can remember others touching her but she > didn't always look pleased about it. I'd say there were two categories of > touches that Xena allowed - touches that occurred while she was following a > plan to gain power or defeat (in other words when she was in warlord/warrior > > mode) and touches from people that she liked/loved/lusted after. IMO, some > characters like Ares, Antony and Caesar could fall into both categories. I think a third category was for practical reasons, like with the blind guy in Dreamworker who was helping her get to Gabs. I can remember being surprised how she let him squeeze her shoulders to see if she was "the one." And, of course, there was the healer in Debt. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 03:16:00 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: <> In a message dated 7/20/2002 4:59:54 PM Central Daylight Time, cande@sunlink.net writes: > Ife wrote: > "Such a perfectly poignant way to show how hungry X&G were in their own ways > for healing their souls and alleviating the fears each had in being with the > other. I love that Crusader does that without bringing in supernatural > stuff." > > What I found interesting is that X & G say to Najara what they should have > said to each other. Xena and Gabrielle are so afraid that they will hurt > the > other that they trust someone they shouldn't. Najara then takes advantage > of > this. She certainly plays on Gabrielle's desire to help others with the > hospice and she deftly plays on Xena's fears of hurting Gabrielle. Absolutely. What's also interesting is how X&G play Najara's game, while at the same time revealing truths about themselves. To save X, G tells Najara that she fears Xena's dark side, which is exactly what Najara wants to hear. In the cave, X says tells Najara that G chose Najara's "light" over her darkness, and that G is a weakness for warriors like them. This convinces Najara that X truly is crazy enough to jeopardize G's life. Fascinating airing of real issues that become weapons on all sides. In her twisted way, Najara helped them confront for themselves fears that they weren't until later to confront honestly with each other. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 03:16:27 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> In a message dated 7/20/2002 7:20:04 PM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > Of course Xena (like any fantasy series) risks running into credibility > problems all the time, it can't avoid it, especially with women fighting. > > I guess the trick is to make the characters convincing enough that the > audience willingly 'suspends its disbelief' as the phrase goes. For me, > personally, Kathryn Morris didn't quite manage that. It's not so much that > > she's thin, as that she's a small person. Hudson managed it, > notwithstanding her size, because she was so intense, but she's one in a > thousand. Actors like Claire Stansfield, or LL, or Claudia Black, being > taller, start off with an advantage there. ROC of course is not so > tall, but she's much more heavily muscled. Interesting. I found Morris credible precisely because she was a woman. I don't necessarily expect women to prevail only with brute force, but with the strength of their convictions, emotions or intellect as well. Additionally, the use of martial arts perfected by a comparably small people also helped. I thought Morris did a great job of infusing her battle skills with a deceptively manic belief in her cause. The woman who played Cyane was more athletic, but it was her altruistic commitment to her tribe that made me believe her capable of defeating Alti or even Xena on a level playing field. Very few of the female warriors were physically imposing (except maybe Bodaccea (?), but they possessed a mental or spiritual toughness and creativity that made up for that. It's one of the reasons I liked XWP, in terms of not always following the male model of what a warrior ought to be like. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:23:20 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Sunday 21 July 2002 19:16, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/20/2002 7:20:04 PM Central Daylight Time, > > cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > Of course Xena (like any fantasy series) risks running into credibility > > problems all the time, it can't avoid it, especially with women > > fighting. > > > > > > I guess the trick is to make the characters convincing enough that the > > audience willingly 'suspends its disbelief' as the phrase goes. For > > me, > > > personally, Kathryn Morris didn't quite manage that. It's not so much > > that > > > she's thin, as that she's a small person. Hudson managed it, > > notwithstanding her size, because she was so intense, but she's one in a > > thousand. Actors like Claire Stansfield, or LL, or Claudia Black, > > being > > > taller, start off with an advantage there. ROC of course is not so > > tall, but she's much more heavily muscled. > > Interesting. I found Morris credible precisely because she was a woman. I > don't necessarily expect women to prevail only with brute force, but with > the strength of their convictions, emotions or intellect as well. Yes, but that works best *before* someone starts getting physical. Once a fight starts, size and strength count for a lot. Though quickness, especially if sharp weapons are involved, can be just as important I guess. Without weapons it doesn't count for so much, I think. A weapon can be an 'equaliser'. > Additionally, the use of martial arts perfected by a comparably small > people also helped. I thought Morris did a great job of infusing her battle > skills with a deceptively manic belief in her cause. Of course, being sufficiently fanatical that they don't mind getting hurt confers an advatage. > The woman who played Cyane was more athletic, Vicky Pratt. I believe she was into martial arts. (Can anyone confirm?) > but it was her altruistic commitment to her tribe > that made me believe her capable of defeating Alti or even Xena on a level > playing field. Umm, well my sceptical side says that altruism confers no points when it comes to a fight. Belief in the justice of ones cause may help, or even belief in ones ability to win. But (IMO) no way could Cyane defeat Xena. Besides, in what way was the tree fight when Xena killed Cyane not a 'level playing field'? (OK, I know, it was full of pine trees! ;) Seriously though - yes, Xena had rigged up all sorts of traps (howcome the Amazons had never noticed?) but still, she was outnumbered maybe 12 to one... > Very few of the female warriors were physically imposing > (except maybe Bodaccea (?), She certainly had the height. Boadicea (or Boudicca), btw. > but they possessed a mental or spiritual > toughness and creativity that made up for that. It's one of the reasons I > liked XWP, in terms of not always following the male model of what a > warrior ought to be like. > > -- Ife I submit that the male model of what a warrior 'ought' to be like is the way it is simply because the most successful warriors were like that. That is, big, strong and well-muscled. And the same would go for female warriors. And I think you'd probably find that the (fictional) ideal male warrior would be mentally tough and creative too. I would like to think that a 'good little 'un' could beat a 'good big 'un' but I'm regretfully fairly sure that in most cases that just wouldn't happen. I did mention that weapons might be an equaliser, in that the more skilled swordsman could defeat a bigger opponent, but even then, a bigger person with a longer reach could carry and wield a longer slightly heavier sword which, all things being equal, would give them a sigificant advantage.. Don't misunderstand me, I *love* watching Xena or Callisto on the rampage, and I can happily suspend my belief that it wouldn't have happened that way in 'reality'. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 04:38:28 EDT From: Trek4u269@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Non-Gab Touching (was Re: Touching in "...Miss Amphipo... In a message dated 7/21/02 12:15:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, IfeRae@aol.com writes: > I'd say there were two categories of > > touches that Xena allowed - touches that occurred while she was > following > a > > plan to gain power or defeat (in other words when she was in > warlord/warrior > > > > mode) and touches from people that she liked/loved/lusted after. IMO, > some > > characters like Ares, Antony and Caesar could fall into both categories > third category from past and at the time - draco, Iolus, hercules More Non-Gab touching--- - -Xena's loves : petracles, Maphius, Borius, Lao Ma, Ulysses, Antony, Marcus - -Gabrielle with Orion in episode 13 : Athens City academy of the performing bards - -Xena's former love who dies trying to save her in episode 14: fistful of dinars - -Xena and marcus in episode 17: Mortal Beloved - -Gabrielle's short lived husband in episode 21 ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 22:22:50 +1200 From: cr Subject: [chakram-refugees] Season 1 ... which I usually dismiss as 'warlord of the week' has its moments, nevertheless. I'm just copying 'Mortal Beloved' and a one-liner from Charon cracked me up... like Michael Hurst's whole performance... "On your left, the Caverns of Despair. On coming up on your right, the Hanging Gardens of Disgusting Diseases." And next up is Royal Couple of Thieves, with Xena and Auto trying to one-up each other non-stop - hilarious. Gods I love this show! cr (with apologies to KT...) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:59:00 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Season 1 Hi, Thelonius mentioned: >I'm just copying 'Mortal Beloved' and a one-liner from Charon cracked me >up... like Michael Hurst's whole performance... > >"On your left, the Caverns of Despair. On coming up on your right, the >Hanging Gardens of Disgusting Diseases." :) Michael Hurst's Charon reminds me a lot of Zathras, the keeper of the Great Machine on _Babylon 5_. "Zathras always misunderstood. *Nobody* listen to Zathras." ============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth ============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://www.smoe.org/meth/muzak.html ============================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:55:49 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> Hi, Thelonius responded: >Yes, but that works best *before* someone starts getting physical. Once a >fight starts, size and strength count for a lot. Though quickness, >especially if sharp weapons are involved, can be just as important I guess. >Without weapons it doesn't count for so much, I think. A weapon can be an >'equaliser'. You've never watched any martial arts contests, have you? :) In a matchup between a karate master and a musclebound warrior of the traditional swords-and-sorcery type, I'd put my money on the karate master without a second thought. The master would be able to disarm the warrior in a heartbeat, after which point his smaller size and quickness would give him all it would take to make short work of the warrior. This is why I was able to buy that Xena, in the person of Lucy Lawless was a nigh invincible warrior. Xena's obvious prowess in the martial arts could conceivably make up for what she lacked in visible muscle. Because let's face it, if Xena were real, she'd look more like the wrestler Chyna than like Lucy. (This is why I scoffed at the show and didn't discover it until the second season was already in reruns. I confess: I called it "Xena: Pudgy Princess." But I'm much better now. ) >Vicky Pratt. I believe she was into martial arts. (Can anyone confirm?) She's a professional bodybuilder, but she does have some martial arts training as well, IIRC. ============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth ============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://www.smoe.org/meth/muzak.html ============================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:08:47 -0400 From: "Lee Daley" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] Buffy parallelism NCOT > -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Cheryl Ande By the way just quickly if you are > a Buffy fan > what do you think of Buffy continuing on without SMG after this upcoming > season. Seems like she's thinking of leaving and this is being talked > about. Last year the show seemed to hit the "Season 5 Wall". Although the Musical was a high point and the finale was nothing if not interesting, another year like that and the concept of "leaving" might be moot. I can understand SMG feeling the same way a LL and ROC after six years. "Enough is Enough", especially when it's a 1 hour action show with 22 eps. But just like Xena Warrior Princess can't continue without Xena, Buffy The Vampire Slayer can't continue without Buffy. Although Buffy's spin-off seems to be doing alright for itself. Another spin-off as a replacement, would no doubt meet the same fate as "After MASH" and others of that ilk. But who knows, Joss is in a different position from Rob (who was having problems peddling the show), he's working with a network(a little one, but a network) that has time slots to fill. Could something based on Willow or Dawn make a season? Probably, especially given some of the other stuff on UPN (an hour of watching mud dry Whereas "Gabrielle the Warrior Bard" would have had little chance in syndication (and would have been missing it's star for a few months). LeeD; Warrior Jester ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:43:02 -0400 From: "Lee Daley" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] <> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-chakram-refugees@smoe.org > [mailto:owner-chakram-refugees@smoe.org]On Behalf Of meredith > Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 10:56 AM > To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org > Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> > > > Hi, > > Thelonius responded: > > >Yes, but that works best *before* someone starts getting > physical. Once a > >fight starts, size and strength count for a lot. Though quickness, > >especially if sharp weapons are involved, can be just as > important I guess. > >Without weapons it doesn't count for so much, I think. A > weapon can be an > >'equaliser'. > > You've never watched any martial arts contests, have you? :) > > In a matchup between a karate master and a musclebound warrior of the > traditional swords-and-sorcery type, I'd put my money on the > karate master > without a second thought. The master would be able to disarm the warrior > in a heartbeat, after which point his smaller size and quickness > would give > him all it would take to make short work of the warrior. Projectile weapons (thrown spears, bow and arrow, guns) of course are a great equalizer, unless your opponent (Xena) can catch them mid-air. Most of the classic Asian Martial arts were designed to allow an unarmed (or armed only with farming tools, staff, sai etc.) person to defeat someone armed with sword or spear. A Master Swordsperson against a Martial Arts Master, especially if the swordsperson was armed with something other a six foot long, 8 inch wide, two handed, enchanted broadsword, like say a Katana, I'd give better than even money on the swordsman. It's really a matter of skill in a one on one contest. LeeD; Warrior Jester ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:18:56 +0100 From: "Ann Reddecliffe" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] <> > # > # > # > # > # > # > I think it's the first time the Vision recurs after Alti first showed it to Xena. No wonder Xena's focus is a bit off. I do think it's a marvellous bit of cinematography when they abruptly cut from the present to that cool, blue, calm, leisurely crucifixion scene. >> Actually I think some of the burning the village scene from A Good Day was in the vision. There is definitely a bit where Xena is standing in front of the flames. Ann ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 19:23:19 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] <> # # # # # # # An apt titled episode indeed. There is something off about this episode, at least for me. It seems just a little tired and a bit overacted. What I liked. The scenes between Xena and Gabrielle were done very well. Xena finally reveals her vision to Gabrielle and Gabrielle is far from devastated. In fact she is rather sensible about the whole matter. She doesn't accept it as a fact because from her point of view there are just too many variables and if it is fact there isn't much she can do about it - so she suggests that Xena and her just keep on living their lives. Xena, on the other hand having experienced the vision can't seem to shake it, and is determined to keep Gabrielle out of harms way. Xena is not subtle and every casual suggestion to Gabby to "wait here" or "help in the hospital" is met with increasing frustration by the bard. In fact at one point Gabby slaps Xena none too gently on the butt after one her attempts to keep Gabby safe. Now what I didn't like. The flashbacks about pregnant Xena's siege of Corinth and her growing split with Borias is just not up to standards set by The Debt and Sin Trade. Lucy pouts and snarls her way through the part for most of the episodes and only at the birth of Solon do we see a more human Xena emerge. Here we have a very young woman giving birth - vulnerable and a bit frightened. I love the astonished expression on Xena's face when Solon is actually born - it as if the child was never real to her until this moment. Then there is a touching moment when she sees the dying Borias and shows him the baby just as he dies. Then a major misstep is made when the director refilmed the scene where Xena gives Solon to Kaleipus. I can understand why this was done, I think. I gives closure to the narrative and there are people who haven seen Orphan of War but it pales in comparison to OOW. In OOW Lucy plays the scene with a subdued sense of despair which is very powerful. Here it just seems over acted by all concerned. The other bad choice was the villain of the piece, Satrina. Who could believe this idiot could be a major warlord. When she has her chance to kill Boris what does she do - stabs him in the leg, not the back, and then has her knife at his throat and decides to talk him to death. Then she is very proud that she has studied Xena and knows all about her. Yet she send her guards away as she once again decides to chat with a supposedly drugged Xena, obviously she didn't study Xena enough to that Xena can be pretty damn dangerous even when supposedly incapacitated. The one part I did like is when Xena reveals she hasn't been doped and wraps the rope around Satrina's neck and snarls in her best feral way "So do like being in my head now". Other absurdities - The big gigantic tunnel under the city. I just visited a historic coal mine that was mined for a hundred years and it wasn't that big. Unrelated trivia point did you know the wooden supports in a coal mine weren't there to hold the ceiling up - nope they were just an early warning system to tell you that the mine was about to collapse (coal pillars actual supported the mine). I believe this is the last time we see Young Xena until season 6 when Lucy seems to have found her enthusiasm for the roll again. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 17:09:51 -0700 From: "Creation (Sharon Delaney)" Subject: [chakram-refugees] 7/21 UPDATE/PLEASE READ/Renee/Macbeth schedule change 7/21 -- THIS SCHEDULE CHANGE MAY NOT BE TRUE -- WILL DOUBLE CHECK ON MONDAY AND POST IF THERE REALLY IS A CHANGE. THEIR ONLINE SCHEDULE LISTS THE CHANGE, BUT I RECEIVED AN EMAIL THAT SAYS THE LOCATIONS HAVE NOT BEEN SWITCHED. Sharon SCHEDULE CHANGE FOR RENEE IN MACBETH -- They have switched the locations of the 7/26 and 8/9 shows. 7/26 will now be at Manhattan Beach, Polliwog Park. 8/9 will now be at Hermosa Beach, Valley Park. (times remain the same at 7PM) Sharon Official Xena Fan Club P.S. Please pass along. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 23:58:31 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> In a message dated 7/21/2002 3:18:05 PM Central Daylight Time, xjv05@dial.pipex.com writes: > > # > > # > > # > > # > > # > > # > > > I think it's the first time the Vision recurs after Alti first showed it to > Xena. No wonder Xena's focus is a bit off. I do think it's a marvellous > bit of cinematography when they abruptly cut from the present to that cool, > blue, calm, leisurely crucifixion scene. >> > > Actually I think some of the burning the village scene from A Good Day was > in the vision. There is definitely a bit where Xena is standing in front of > the flames. > > Ann > Hmmm, if memory serves (which it frequently doesn't), Xena was replaying the crucifixion vision just before Najara came into the barn and asked if Gabrielle was in the vision too. BTW, that supported the notion that Najara did indeed have some form of psychic ability, herself or from little people in her head. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 23:58:30 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Mind over Muscle (was Re: [chakram-refugees] <> In a message dated 7/21/2002 3:01:52 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > but it was her altruistic commitment to her tribe > > that made me believe her capable of defeating Alti or even Xena on a level > > playing field. > > Umm, well my sceptical side says that altruism confers no points when it > comes to a fight. >> Ah. Adrenalin and primal protectiveness account for a lot in my book (e.g., the small woman who lifts a car somehow to save her child). I'll take a mother defending her cubs over a larger animal, even if it's hungry. Skill with weapons is all well and good, but don't matter as much if the human wielding them isn't as motivated as her/his opponent. Mind you, we're talking the Xenaverse, where you didn't have Uzi's that any idiot could use to blow someone away at a distance and with no great expertise. > Besides, in what way was the tree fight when Xena killed Cyane not a 'level > playing field'? (OK, I know, it was full of pine trees! ;) Seriously > though - yes, Xena had rigged up all sorts of traps (howcome the Amazons > had > never noticed?) but still, she was outnumbered maybe 12 to one... >> Xena had rigged the playing field with weapons Cyane didn't know about. If she'd flipped Cyane into a tree, Cyane might have survived to continue fighting. Instead, she flipped her into that sharpened pole she'd made, thereby ensuring a quick defeat. Since Cyane wasn't the show's star, she didn't have that uncanny instinct for knowing about hidden land mines and such. :-) > > > Very few of the female warriors were physically imposing > > (except maybe Bodaccea (?), > > She certainly had the height. Boadicea (or Boudicca), btw. > > > but they possessed a mental or spiritual > > toughness and creativity that made up for that. It's one of the reasons I > > liked XWP, in terms of not always following the male model of what a > > warrior ought to be like. > > > > -- Ife > > I submit that the male model of what a warrior 'ought' to be like is the way > > it is simply because the most successful warriors were like that. That is, > > big, strong and well-muscled. And the same would go for female warriors. > > And I think you'd probably find that the (fictional) ideal male warrior > would > be mentally tough and creative too. >> Perhaps. However, the men who create most of the Western action hero shows don't seem to think so -- unless there's some mystical element or Eastern philosophy/martial arts involved. Crashing things into each other or throwing opponents around seems to be the big draw. Of course, I could be missing some subtleties that suggest brute force isn't of paramount importance. > > I would like to think that a 'good little 'un' could beat a 'good big 'un' > but I'm regretfully fairly sure that in most cases that just wouldn't happen.>> I have, IRL, especially if the "little un" knows how to use the "big un's" size and presumed physical superiority against her/him. > I did mention that weapons might be an equaliser, in that the more skilled > swordsman could defeat a bigger opponent, but even then, a bigger person > with > a longer reach could carry and wield a longer slightly heavier sword which, > all things being equal, would give them a sigificant advantage.>> I disagree. "Bigger is better" thinking creates a lot of opportunities for those who study how to get around that. I think the greater advantage lies with those who don't get complacent and have to spend their lives practicing ways to adapt to situations, rather than counting on bigness to always give them the edge. > > Don't misunderstand me, I *love* watching Xena or Callisto on the rampage, > and I can happily suspend my belief that it wouldn't have happened that way > in 'reality'. > Possibly some of your disbelief comes from living a different reality. In mine, muscle and size are something I'd better know how to deal with, whether it means using words, subterfuge, a frying pan or car keys, a well placed knee or finger, martial arts, running like crazy, and the general confidence and presence of mind not to believe that muscle and size are all the matters. True, Xena was projected as having greater battle skills, strength and height than most of her opponents, male or female. But she (as well as other women on the show) was also shown as using a range of "weapons" and strategies to prevail. I had less trouble believing she could win with those, than I did suspending disbelief at her impossible physical feats. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 18:09:32 -1000 (HST) From: "Jackie M. Young" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Aug. Starlog #301--KSmith Thankfully, my good e-buddy, Rob Weisbrot alerted me to the fact that he was writing an article on KSmith in the Aug. Starlog #301 in stores now. ;) As usual, it's filled with gobs of *detailed* KSmith anecdotes and reminiscences, and IMO is the way I'd rather remember Kev. ;) It's got *menny great* pics as well. ;=) Let's hope some of these make their way into any future publications of Rob's.....;=) Just FYI, - --Jackie ****************************************************** * Proud to have the same birthday as Lucy Lawless! * * * * "I think New Zealand geographically comes from * * ... Hawai'i." --Lucy Lawless, Late Show, 4/9/96 * * * * JACKIE YOUNG, JYOUNG@LAVA.NET * * * ****************************************************** ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 00:17:14 EDT From: Trek4u269@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Buffy parallelism NCOT In a message dated 7/21/02 10:16:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time, leed@daleyenterprises.cncdsl.com writes: > But who knows, Joss is in a different position from Rob (who was having > problems peddling the show), he's working with a network(a little one, but > a > network) that has time slots to fill. yup...being on primetime tv on a major network helps. Xena was seen here in the los angeles area during weird hours and had no stability. In fact there were times when it was pre-empted on weekends for baseball games or soccer. Between oxygen, sci fi channel and others Xena, Hercules, Brisco county jr. etc have had good exposure and will live on ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #201 **************************************