From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #193 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Sunday, July 14 2002 Volume 02 : Number 193 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] non-lethal xena dramas [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] non-lethal xena dramas ["S. Wilson" ] [chakram-refugees] Nonlethal Xena dramas [Lilli Sprintz Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] non-lethal xena dramas On Saturday 13 July 2002 15:46, Lilli Sprintz wrote: > CR said, > > >And my memories of some of the S1 / S2 eps aren't that good... I really > > can't remember if anyone gets killed in The Titans, for example > > Yes, someone gets stepped on by the nasty Titan. Was he squashed or was he one of those that climbs up out of a hole in the mud afterwards? I can't remember the incident, myself. > And as for others, I have Fins Femmes and Gems on in the background, and > no killing. Just lots of obsession. > > > Think of the comedies: Tale of Two Muses; If the Shoe Fits (some people > get clobbered, but no one got killed!). You Are There - anyone get > killed in that? Here She Comes, Miss Amphipolis; A Solstice Carol. And > despite all the violence, I don't believe anyone got killed in Ties That > Bind...of course, I could be wrong...(doesn't that sound like the > Demeter priest in A Fistful of Dinars? Goodness, I'm memorizing the > lines!!!) > > L Umm, Ties that Bind wasn't a comedy, btw. I can't remember anyone getting killed in that ep, though there were a lot of close moments... if so, it would be (I think) one of a small minority of dramas where no-one got killed. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 01:30:26 -0700 (PDT) From: "S. Wilson" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] non-lethal xena dramas It was said: [snip] > And > > despite all the violence, I don't believe anyone got killed in Ties > That > > Bind...of course, I could be wrong [snip] > > > > L > > Umm, Ties that Bind wasn't a comedy, btw. I can't remember anyone > getting > killed in that ep, though there were a lot of close moments... [snip] > > cr Unless I'm confusing it with another episode, I think at least 2 people died in TTB (which wasn't a comedy). 1, the guy that Xena's ol' man did in, and 2 (which I can't remember if it's from TTB or something else), Xena surprises a poison-dart guy and blows the dart back into his throat - I assume, killin' him, since he gets the big eyes @@ and falls. Aren't there any HCNBs out there who've taken a body count for every ep? S. ===== == . . . Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 22:33:26 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] non-lethal xena dramas On Saturday 13 July 2002 20:30, S. Wilson wrote: > Unless I'm confusing it with another episode, I think at least 2 people > died in TTB (which wasn't a comedy). 1, the guy that Xena's ol' man did > in, and 2 (which I can't remember if it's from TTB or something else), > Xena surprises a poison-dart guy and blows the dart back into his > throat - I assume, killin' him, since he gets the big eyes @@ and > falls. > Yes, of course, the poison dart guy. I remember now. Thanks. > Aren't there any HCNBs out there who've taken a body count for every > ep? > > S. > I thought of doing that way back when people were claiming that Xena had got 'more violent' in Season 4 or 5 or whatever. And I very rapidly gave up on the following grounds: 1. All the villains Xena tosses into lakes etc in ambushes - how many of them get dead? 2. Do we count somebody killed in the background of a battle as equal importance to some 'name' character that Xena kills? 3. Do we count people killed by 'baddies' like Alti as equal importance to people killed by Xena? 4. How many people do get killed in these battles anyway? How do we count them? 5. If a character e.g. Callisto comes back to life again afterwards, does that count as a 'kill'? How many times does Xena kill Callisto anyway? 6. If we just see dead people (e.g. bloody corpses after a battle) do they count as much as someone getting killed on-screen? 7. If we just hear of someone getting killed (e.g. the 100,000 in Back in the Bottle) do they count, or only the 20 or 30 we actually saw turning to stone onscreen? Much as I like exceptions to rules, the problem is that there are so many exceptions and qualifications and uncertainties in the above that any numbers would be almost meaningless. On the more limited topic of 'how many people die in each episode' it might be possible to come to some conclusion for many episodes but others (like A Good Day) would still defeat any attempts to count, I think. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 12:05:01 -0500 From: Lilli Sprintz Subject: [chakram-refugees] Nonlethal Xena dramas S. W., in a correction she sent to me, said, (after I claimed that Ties That Bind didn't have any deaths...oops, I was wrong) "Unless I'm confusing it with another episode, I think at least 2 people died in TTB (which wasn't a comedy). 1, the guy that Xena's ol' man did in, and 2 (which I can't remember if it's from TTB or something else), Xena surprises a poison-dart guy and blows the dart back into his throat - I assume, killin' him, since he gets the big eyes @@ and falls." Yes! That's right. Forgot about the man that Xena's "father" killed. Although the guy with the poison dart wasn't killed by Xena. He actually got to run away, if my memory serves me. Actually, he's the one that her "dad" killed.....I hope I'm right about this. Memories are so wonderful. L ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 13:17:18 -0400 From: "Lee Daley" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] non-lethal xena dramas cr wrote in part: > 2. Do we count somebody killed in the background of a battle as equal > importance to some 'name' character that Xena kills? "You haven't lived until you've been gored by Xena!" 'Bitter Suite' LeeD This has been a drive-by lyric. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 12:07:04 -0700 From: "Creation (Sharon Delaney)" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Xena touching Gabrielle Looking back over the early part of the series, I seem to feel that Xena was always touching Gabrielle -- on her hair, her cheek, her shoulder. And that Gabrielle never, or hardly ever, touched Xena. Am I misremembering or has anyone else noticed the same thing? Can anyone remember times in the series where Xena touched Gabrielle that way? I'd love to compile a list and perhaps use it in Coffee Talk. Sharon Official Xena Fan Club ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 18:47:12 EDT From: HawkFalco@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena touching Gabrielle In a message dated 7/13/02 12:08:12 PM, outback@creationent.com writes: >Looking back over the early part of the series, I seem to feel that Xena >was always touching Gabrielle -- on her hair, her cheek, her shoulder. > And that Gabrielle never, or hardly ever, touched Xena. Am I misremembering >or has anyone else noticed the same thing? Can anyone remember times in the >series where Xena touched Gabrielle that way? Did you cross up the names here? In the beginning of the series it was always Gabrielle touching Xena, breaking down the physical barriers between them. As the warrior warmed to the bard then she started do the same but not as much, I think. On of the disappointments of season 5 was the lack of touching between them. It became a running joke in the on-line Xenaverse that the studio suits in LA were freaking out about lesbian implications between the girls and thus demanding "NO TOUCHING!" The intimacy between Xena and Gab really was missed. > I'd love to compile a list >and perhaps use it in Coffee Talk. Sorry. List of who touching who? I'm sure we can help. >Sharon >Official Xena Fan Club Touched- Hawk ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 15:57:25 -0700 (PDT) From: "S. Wilson" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Xena's body count (was: Re: non-lethal xena dramas) In the Buffyverse, there's a site that takes down the body count for every episode - how many humans died, how many vamps died, how many demons died, etc. and so forth ad infinitum. I unfortunately can't remember the link and I'm not at my own computer, but I put a similar link at the bottom of this msg. - --- cr wrote: [snipperoo] > 1. All the villains Xena tosses into lakes etc in ambushes - how > many of > them get dead? Only if Xena watches the bubbles rise, them's are dead, I'd say. > 2. Do we count somebody killed in the background of a battle as > equal > importance to some 'name' character that Xena kills? If you want to get really hardcore about it, sure, why not? Just make sure you rewind the scene 3 or 4 times to make sure you got everyone. ;) Actually, I'd say, just tally the ones that Xena kills. > 3. Do we count people killed by 'baddies' like Alti as equal > importance to > people killed by Xena? I suppose you could make an alternate list of baddies' death counts - Alti, Callisto, Pertycuss. > 4. How many people do get killed in these battles anyway? How do > we count > them? Prolly good to just count Xena's kills... instead of all kills. I'd say, if you're going to log *every* dead body, then it should be only the dead bodies that show up in frame. All the other - supposed - dead bodies... eh. > 5. If a character e.g. Callisto comes back to life again > afterwards, does > that count as a 'kill'? How many times does Xena kill Callisto > anyway? Once - maybe. I think? She killed Callisto once when Callie was in the flesh. And killed her again a couple times after, right? Poor Callie, such bad mileage. :( Has Xener ever killed anyone else after they're dead, or after they're not alive, but not dead, etc.? > 6. If we just see dead people (e.g. bloody corpses after a battle) > do they > count as much as someone getting killed on-screen? Hmmm. I think, see above. > 7. If we just hear of someone getting killed (e.g. the 100,000 in > Back in > the Bottle) do they count, or only the 20 or 30 we actually saw > turning to > stone onscreen? lol All this business of judgment. You think Hades needs a hand down there? ;) I'd say it's just in the present time, on-screen. You could probably make another list for all the people killed by Xena or because of Xena before the series began (like the 10,000 at Corinth/Torrence, the rebellion at Amphipolis, etc.). > Much as I like exceptions to rules, the problem is that there are so > many > exceptions and qualifications and uncertainties in the above that any > numbers > would be almost meaningless. Gotcha. Yeh, I tried the ol' body count list a few years back too, and had to stop precisely for some of the reasons you list above. I see now that one needs a good spreadsheet to get all this stuff down! > On the more limited topic of 'how many people die in each episode' it > might > be possible to come to some conclusion for many episodes but others > (like A > Good Day) would still defeat any attempts to count, I think. > > cr Right. Maybe a list with separate sections, then - kills, probable kills, undefined kills, kills by others (Alti, Callisto), background kills, past kills, kills by clones, etc. This Buffy site is set up rather nice - http://www.synapse.net/~dsample/BBC/ - with a list of all the bodies, and all the other bodies, episode-by-episode, along with a short introduction on the players. Don (the guy who wrote the page) even explains his formula on the opening page. "In order to make this list a person has to have died on school property. Either on the grounds of Sunnydale High School during the first three seasons or UC Sunnydale in later seasons Demons, vampires and zombies don't count, sincewith the exception of the Mastervampires don't leave much behind..." I've seen another body count list that adds number of vampires staked, demons killed, yadda yadda. I think it sounds doable, if ya have enough time and patience and all the eps on tape. S. ===== == . . . Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 19:41:19 -0400 From: Lee Daley Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena's body count S. Wilson wrote in part: > > Maybe a list with separate sections, then - kills, probable kills, > undefined kills, kills by others (Alti, Callisto), background kills, > past kills, kills by clones, etc. > Sounds like something the Air Force would come up with "kills, probable kills, unconfirmed kills, shared kills, assists, runs, hits, errors, baddies left standing, baddies batted in................ - -- LeeD: Warrior Jester leed@daleyenterprises.cncdsl.com ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #193 **************************************