From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #188 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Tuesday, July 9 2002 Volume 02 : Number 188 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] <<.A Good Day>> [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Gab's bardometer score [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] [chakram-refugees] <> ["Cheryl Ande" > In a message dated 7/7/2002 4:43:34 PM Central Daylight Time, cande@sunlink.net writes: @ @ @ @ @ @ @ > What has always sparked a lot of debate is why Gabby missed with the spear. > It is purposely left ambiguous. ROC in an interview in Charkram, I believe, > said a line was cut from the funeral scene where Gabby said to Xena that she > now wished she had let Xena teach her how to throw a spear. By cutting the > line the audience and Gabrielle are left to wonder whether this was a > failure of skill or nerve. Certainly Gabrielle could have tried to throw > the > spear like her staff but being balanced differently could have gone off > course. Then again at the last minute did Gabrielle have doubts about > killing > and subconsciously miss on purpose. It can be imagined that Gabby will > brood > on this and analysis this to death. Interesting that they left that line out about her ability to throw the spear. Yes, it did indeed make Gab's "failiure" more intriguing, particularly in retrospect after IDES. I won't jump ahead on that now, but maybe you can share your hindsight observations when you get to IDES. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 01:13:58 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Gab's bardometer score In a message dated 7/7/2002 4:52:54 PM Central Daylight Time, cande@sunlink.net writes: > Once again I arise to defend Gabrielle's literary honor. In When Fates > Collide she is a famous playwrite and her play appears to be very well > recieved. Now Barnabus (aka Joxer), Alti, and Caesar din't like it but then > again I'm pretty sure their tastes didn't run to romances. I still maintain > Gabby must have been a good writer hence Xena's fame after 25 years and > remember that the peddler selling Gabrielle's scroll in Lookin Death In The > Eye seemed to believe he had something of value. I shall not be moved and > will not be convinced otherwise - Gabrielle did have talent - so there ;-). > LOL! I agree with your take on Fates. Personally, Gabs' literary talent has always been less important than the suggestion that we wouldn't have learned about the WP's heroics without the scrolls and that Xena carried some guilt because she might have led Gabs away from a bardic life. Fates seemed to establish once and for all that -- famous or not -- Gabrielle wouldn't have had her passion for chronicling, nor such an amazing life to chronicle, if she hadn't gone with Xena. Moreover, Gabs makes it clear to Xena that she wouldn't have had it any other way. Mostly, though, I think of Gabs' words in terms of the one person who really mattered to Gabs -- Xena. Xena knows that those words give meaning to a life Xena once despised and then came to value. Xena knew that even at the point she hadn't read the scrolls. She treasured what Gabrielle saw in her, so I think her admission in Ides was her way of affirming that. Then, reading them to baby Eve reminded her of why she treasured Gabrielle the person. I don't know what more a bard could ask for than making someone into a legend, inspiring folks throughout the world with that legend and moving the very person most likely to dismiss any worth to what was written. If I think of them as the basis for XWP, they're sure good enough for me. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 21:50:56 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Monday 08 July 2002 09:47, Cheryl Ande wrote: > # > # > # > # > # > ## > > > Having said all that was good with the episode, I had some problems > following the battle strategy. I did ok about the small hill and > distracting both armies so the villagers could escape and the artillery > could be captured. After that with Caesar's army retreating and Gabby > taking command and having to keep fighting to keep Caesar's army on the > hill it was just confusing to me. I can't even blame the script because > I'm always confused about things like this. Finally I wasn't even sure in > the final battle just who were Pompey's troops and Caesar's troops - > perhaps I was suppose to be confused because certainly battles are very > confusing to those in the thick of it. So maybe that was just effective > film-making but I felt a bit lost. The strategy about the hill was to have Pompey's and Caesar's troops annihilate each other - but you know that. Further than that I couldn't really follow either, except I think maybe the idea was that the Greeks should attack the Roman armies when they were in a weakened state. The strategy I couldn't follow was where Xena arranged for the catapults to fire on the spot where she was meeting Pompey and Caesar. Surely she was just as much at risk of getting hit as they were. Anyway, best line in the episode (IMO) was "If Caesar wants that hill, *I* want that hill!" Summed up Caesar and Pompey's relationship very nicely. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 19:25:15 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] <> # # # # # ## # When I first saw this episode I remember being a bit disappointed in it - except for joyous last five minute dance sequence. Having watched it again I have to saw I enjoyed it much more than the first time - it must have grown on me. There are a bunch of small things I found amusing. I loved Xena's basic warrior crudeness - smelling her arm pits while out in the desert and her digestive distress at foreign foods - I just find it funny that Lucy could tape so well into that side of Xena. Then there is the "gotta dance" Gabrielle - dancing in her bedroll, to the rhythm of the blacksmith, and to Autolycus's confusion, just waiting around for the villain to show up. Gabby also writes a poem and a speech, gets the first pair of tap shoes, and busts some serious heads in the first brawl of the episode. I liked Autolycus's southern preacher finding sin in the most innocuous painting of the kindly shopowner's home and oddly enough he did make it seem risqui. It reminded me of the preacher who insisted that the Disney cartoon The Little Mermaid contained scenes of the minister performing the wedding having an errection (the Disney people pointed out that he had mistaken a knee for something else) and another minister concerned that the first Xena doll could be undressed and thus tempting little boys to see a naked plastic girl. Prudes seem to live a much more erotic life than Hugh Hefner. Sherrie Appleby was not annoying this time around and nicely sympathetic. She seems to have landed on her feet. The boy she loved was very and his father was a fine man and seemed to look on Tara as a daughter. I did get a kick out of Xena's little pep talk to Tara and her boyfriend when they decide to flee the oppressive village. In the beginning of the episode Gabrielle told Tara that she came from just such a narrow-mind town and was just best to leave. Now Xena tells Tara to go back or she will be homeless and will be running for the rest of her life. Tara is getting some pretty contradictory advice here - perhaps by now Xena thought the village could change but I somehow don't think Xena really believes you ought stay where you are miserable simply out of fear. If she actually believed that she would hauled Gabrielle back to Potadeia so many years ago. I thought it just a little odd - - perhaps it was just Tara advice since she had a history of being a runaway and her adoptive family was very nice. Finally I have to say I just love the wonderful dance number at the end. Everyone is so happy that Xena actually flips for joy. It reminded me a little of the pictures of Kabul after the Taliban left. For years the Afghani's couldn't listen to music or play - as soon as they were freed out came the hidden cassette tapes and the toys. No matter how hard fanatics try to kill joy the human spirit will always find it again. Funny blooper - this episode produced one the funniest bloopers I've seen. When Talamon challenges the villain in the election Gabrielle says to the villain "How does it feel to have a real election?" In the blooper ROC goes up the villain and says "How does it feel to have a real erection?' the actor gives two thumbs up and a gleeful smile and ROC does quite seem to know what she said then blushed furiously when she's told. We also find out that Xena uses express pigons to get word around. We also discover she not above lying to get she wants - poor Atolycus thought he was getting a reward only to find out he was doing another freebee. Good lines: Gabrielle taping her steel toed shoes muttering : "I like steel." Autolycus watching an antsy Gabrielle about to suggest that Gabrielle needs to get.....with Gabby chiming that she needs to DANCE and Autolycus saying he was on entirely different track. Perhaps he was going to volunteer his services as some who get rid of Gabby's pent up energy - now that would have been interesting to see Gabby's or Xena's reaction to that proposition. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 21:42:16 -0400 From: meredith Subject: [chakram-refugees] tv guide asks: who should play wonder woman? Hi, Needless to say, LL is on the list: http://www.tvguide.com/newsgossip/insider/020708a.asp ============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth ============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://www.smoe.org/meth/muzak.html ============================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 19:04:03 -0700 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] tv guide asks: who should play wonder woman? How typical. They don't try to find a NEW female action star, they just try to type-cast a bunch of great female actors who should not be tied to just one image. Pamela Anderson: Oh, that scares me on so many levels. "Barb Wire" was on TV once and I accidently turned it off. I ran screaming from the room. Yancy Butler: She's a good actress, she's tough, but I don't see her in the role. Jennifer Garner: Awesome actress and she has the moves, but she's way better suited to Electra, and one comic book heroine is plenty if you ever want a career as something either then an action star. Sarah Michelle Gellar: Oh I REALLY don't see her in the role. Why? I don't know, but it just doesn't fit. Lucy Lawless: Please no! Run Lucy! Don't fall into the type-cast! Your acting is the greatest there is and there's so many other roles out there. I want to see Lucy in some non-action roles. Remember at the 2001 con how Lucy said her idea of the perfect role would this tiny role in a movie where the woman had 40 seconds left to live and to say good-bye to her husband. Oooh, let's see her spread those wings! Jennifer Lopez: *shudder* Great in "Selena" but she's no action hero. Kelly Osbourne: I have no idea who this is. Michelle Yeoh: I have no idea who this is. I was surprised that Angelina Jolie didn't make the list since they are listing every action woman pretty much (and she certainly rocked as Lara Croft) though I also would not want her to play the role. As for who should. Honestly, I don't know. I don't even know Wonder Woman in the first place, so I'm even going to suggest. I'd have to know the character better. But there are plenty of great female actress out there who haven't done the action thing yet, who would be great! What's everyone else think? BATTLE ON XENA! Xena Torres: Warrior Writer _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 23:04:20 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] tv guide asks: who should play wonder woman? Hi, Xena Torres responded: >How typical. They don't try to find a NEW female action star, they just >try to type-cast a bunch of great female actors who should not be tied to >just one image. Yeah, exactly what I was thinking. >Pamela Anderson: Oh, that scares me on so many levels. "Barb Wire" was on >TV once and I accidently turned it off. I ran screaming from the room. Heh. I was pretty scared to see her name on the list too. I just can't deal with her at all. >Yancy Butler: She's a good actress, she's tough, but I don't see her in >the role. Funnily enough, I could. I don't see her as someone who is going to have much of a career outside of _Witchblade_ (sorry, Yancy fans :), so I'm not as concerned about her getting typecast. I think she wouldn't be a bad choice. >Jennifer Garner: Awesome actress and she has the moves, but she's way >better suited to Electra, and one comic book heroine is plenty if you ever >want a career as something either then an action star. Exactly. (I can't wait to see her in _Daredevil_, though!) >Sarah Michelle Gellar: Oh I REALLY don't see her in the role. Why? I don't >know, but it just doesn't fit. I see her more as one of Electrawoman and Dynagirl (a project which I hear is in pre-production, btw). :) She could be either one. One thing about SMG is, she's managing to do a pretty good job of taking a range of roles, to keep her from getting pigeonholed as an action babe. For example, simultaneous with _Scooby-Doo_, she's playing a very different role as the daughter of a Mafia don in _Harvard Man_, and she's getting good reviews in both films. By doing high-profile movies even as _Buffy_ continues production, she's expanding her horizons and making herself known as a very well-rounded, capable actress. This is one regret I have about X:WP being produced in NZ instead of LA -- Lucy wasn't able to get any film roles while her star was rising, and because of this I think she's going to have a harder time getting known as someone other than the Warrior Princess. >Lucy Lawless: Please no! Run Lucy! Don't fall into the type-cast! I join that chorus. As much as I think she would kick absolute ass as Wonder Woman, it would be the final nail in the coffin of her career. So in the interest of the Greater Good, I'm with you on that one. >Jennifer Lopez: *shudder* Great in "Selena" but she's no action hero. I haven't seen _Enough_, but I certainly heard, um, enough bad about it to want to stay very far away. >Kelly Osbourne: I have no idea who this is. She's Ozzy Osbourne's daughter, who rose to fame this past tv season along with the rest of her non-Ozzy family in MTV's reality sitcom _The Osbournes_. She's obviously on the list as a joke -- I can't even begin to imagine her as Wonder Woman, and that's not even considering her pink hair! >Michelle Yeoh: I have no idea who this is. ??? Get thee to a video store and rent _Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon_. Or _Tomorrow Never Dies_. Or _The Heroic Trio_ (a classic of Hong Kong cinema). Michelle Yeoh is the current queen of Hong Kong cinema: she kicks butt, is beautiful, and can act, too. I would be interested to see her as an Asian Wonder Woman. I think she would be very good. And since she's so much a part of Hong Kong cinema, she doesn't have to worry about getting pigeonholed or anything. >I was surprised that Angelina Jolie didn't make the list since they are >listing every action woman pretty much (and she certainly rocked as Lara >Croft) though I also would not want her to play the role. She should have been on the list instead of Kelly Osbourne. >As for who should. Honestly, I don't know. I don't even know Wonder Woman >in the first place, so I'm even going to suggest. I'd have to know the >character better. But there are plenty of great female actress out there >who haven't done the action thing yet, who would be great! Wonder Woman was in many ways the prototype for the Xena character. The character has evolved a bit from the original WWII-era comics, but she's essentially an independent, kickass woman who has certain godlike attributes. She is an Amazon princess and can do a lot of superheroic things. I would like to see a previously unknown actress get rocketed to stardom in the role, but with luck she would be able to avoid Lynda Carter syndrome and be able to leave the character behind for a more well-rounded career. Like, for example, Elizabeth Laidlaw of Chicago, best known to the Xenaverse as Xena in the _Xena Live!_ plays. :) She'd be just as good as Lucy, really. (Not that she even wants to do film ... but it's fun to think about.) ============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth ============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://www.smoe.org/meth/muzak.html ============================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #188 **************************************