From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #183 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Friday, July 5 2002 Volume 02 : Number 183 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [chakram-refugees] Re: [Flawless] Would you travel to see Lucy? ["Lee] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: X, G, and "Knowing" [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: X, G, and "Knowing" [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: X, G, and "Knowing" [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: X, G, and "Knowing"; bickering [Lynn W Ribaud ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: X, G, and "Knowing" [BElannafan@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] What DOES she see in her? [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: X, G, and "Knowing"; bickering [KTL [chakram-refugees] <> ["Cheryl Ande" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 01:26:55 -0400 From: "Lee Daley" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] Re: [Flawless] Would you travel to see Lucy? > BJFitzpat@aol.com > writes: > > << When Lucy was in "Grease!" I remember folks coming from all > over the world > (literally) to see her. If she were to grace Broadway again, do > you think the > same thing would happen? >> Ife responded > I'd go. I never went to a con, but I'd try to see any theater > performance > she was in if it was the U.S. > I saw her in "Grease", it was excellent and I would certainly see any other Broadway endeavor. I really wish Renee wasn't performing 3000 miles away. LeeD; Warrior Jester ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 23:14:06 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: X, G, and "Knowing" Mucho snippo Thel replied: > > A transcript! At last! :) > > (snips transcript :) LOL! > > I don't fully understand this possible reasoning, since the motivation of > > holding the girl for ransom was the reason the story gave for them being > > together. But I just can't figure out any other reason for Lucy thinking > > this ep was any more subtextually overt than many others. > > Though, the ransom was almost lost sight of during most of Xena's journey > with Akemi. It faded into the background. So it wasn't present as a > driving force during all the scenes Xena had interacting with Akemi, and > presumably therefore not prominent to LL as a motive. Whereas their > personal interaction and affection was prominent. Au contraire mon Kiwish. In fact in the very scene where Lucy first discusses Xena being outed Xena does an "Aw piffle" over Akemi's latest poem and warns her not to forget why they're traveling together. Akemi: In a flurry of snow two breaths of wind unite and become as one and then disappear into each other. Xena: "Listen, Akemi. I don't want you to take this the wrong way. I really love this sword, and you're a nice kid. But I just came for the ransom." (Well, at least she didn't say, "Pull my finger".) And when Akemi kills Yodoshi she says to Xena, "It was my duty. He had to die". And Xena immediately responds, "I don't care about that! What about the ransom?!" And then screams in fury, "WHERE'S MY MONEY!" Akemi goes outside in the snow to commit sepukku. But first she asks, "Forgive me, Xena". Xena, still furious, stomps around and says, "I don't suppose there's any inheritance in this." (LOL!) I don't think the money motive slipped too far into the background in Xena's mind, pretty poems, batting eyelashes or no. > > If ransom was Xena's only motivation, why would she bother to assist Akemi's > suicide and later take her ashes for burial? And why was she so cut up > about Akemi's death? Because she lost her chance to get the money? Seriously, perhaps because when Akemi killed herself, it was such an unexpected, outrageous and shocking thing that even Evil Xena was impressed by her courage. And also, perhaps because she actually chokes out another love poem to Xena with her last breaths, after she has gutted herself. Talk about grace under pressure. Akemi: The snow melts And flowers pass As all things do But time And love They go on As Akemi bleeds to death and works her way through the poem, Xena is distraught and upset. The death of such a young person in such a quest, that of getting vengeance for the deaths of her family and then killing herself to restore her own honor, I think this obviously touched Xena deeply. A "toughy", even for Evil Xena to experience. The only explanation is that she had, at least, either > considerable affection or considerable respect for Akemi. So I tend to > agree with LL on that. > > cr > Yes she definitely did, both I think. Or else she wouldn't have gone to her aid when called. But a sexual attraction? I'm with Lucy on wondering how Xena could find both a barbarian like Borias and an ultra civilized poet like Akemi as folks to hanker after. Somehow I just can't see her rolling around in a Yurt or even on Lao Ma's floor with Akemi. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 22:17:41 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: X, G, and "Knowing" On Thursday 04 July 2002 07:17, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/3/2002 5:33:48 AM Central Daylight Time, > > fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes: > > Again, I think it's very clear that Lucy thinks the script is written to > > show Xena in love with Akemi. Even though Lucy is having problems with > > the idea of outing Xena and also seems to be saying here that she doesn't > > think it was written well enough to establish that Xena was in love with > > this young woman. But even so, she's convinced herself that Xena is outed > > in this ep because of her feelings for this young girl. Lucy can be very > > thick at times, apparently... > > OK, this may clear something up for me. I'd wondered if Lucy's new "take" > was partly from finally getting to watch a key ep like FIN in its entirety, > after the show was over and she could look at it with more distance. She'd > said before that she rarely watched completed eps, so mostly remembered > nonsequential pieces. But it sounds from your excerpts as if she responded > as she did as she was preparing for FIN. > > I can understand her searching for why Akemi was so important to her. (She > must not've read Rob's comments in Chakram about Xena's affinity for young > women who reminded her of her own lost youth.) Akemi says something > mysterious about knowing about Xena and knowing Xena would love her, even > before she met Xena. Okaaaay. But at least we see a rescuer/teacher > aspect with Akemi. To me, that woman Alti offered Xena, in Sin Trade, was > far more of a sexual object than Akemi. Anokin. And yes, that 'come and get it' look that Anokin gave when we first saw her was IMO by far the most blatant bit of 'out'-ing of Xena in the entire series. > Whatever "friendship" she > developed with Xena must've happened in two seconds which we certainly > didn't see. Maybe Lucy wondered what was up with that too, but just played > it as best she could. Maybe it was such a small piece of the puzzle that > she just forgot or didn't worry about it. Who knows? > > Methinks Rob's ideas about Xena's attraction to "innocent" young women was > a bit muddled. It's quite a thin line to walk, once you've got the subtext > angle. If Lucy played Xena as an "omni" sexual being, then I can see her > approaching other characters on a per-person basis. But even then, she > needs to know why she's attracted to them -- e.g., power, admiration, > "connectedness," pure lust. Maybe she could figure that out with other > characters, but was totally confused by what Xena was supposed to see in > Akemi (as was I). I thought Akemi was finely calculated to appeal to Xena. That innocent but eager-to-learn-from-Xena approach (and I don't think it was entirely 'put on' for Xena's benefit, I think Akemi genuinely was interested) was nicely calculated to push all Xena's buttons. Quite aside from any sexual overtones. The only explanation that seems to make sense to her is > that Xena was attracted simply because Xena was gay all along. Or, bi. > No wonder > she thought Rob had some 'splaining to do. Heh, if he can. > > -- Ife What's to explain? I just explained it for ya. :) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 22:23:54 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: X, G, and "Knowing" On Thursday 04 July 2002 07:47, mirrordrum wrote: Nice to se ya, md! > > absolutely and lesbian or no, i can't see her getting in heat over akemi & > there certainly wasn't any other draw. > What I said to lfe. I think Akemi aroused Xena's protective instincts (which I'm sure even Evil Xena had), she was eager to learn from Xena (which I think flattered Xena and also, as Xena herself was always eager to learn, she probably saw that as an admirable trait in Akemi). And, IMO, she had an attractive personality. All that is quite aside from any lesbian attraction she may have felt for Akemi. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 01:09:28 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: X, G, and "Knowing" On Thursday 04 July 2002 19:14, KTL wrote: Mucho snippo > > > Though, the ransom was almost lost sight of during most of Xena's journey > > with Akemi. It faded into the background. So it wasn't present as a > > driving force during all the scenes Xena had interacting with Akemi, and > > presumably therefore not prominent to LL as a motive. Whereas their > > personal interaction and affection was prominent. > > Au contraire mon Kiwish. In fact in the very scene where Lucy first > discusses Xena being outed Xena does an "Aw piffle" over Akemi's > latest poem and warns her not to forget why they're traveling together. > > > Akemi: In a flurry of snow > two breaths of wind unite > and become as one > and then disappear into each other. > > Xena: "Listen, Akemi. I don't want you to take this the wrong > way. I really love this sword, and you're a nice kid. But I > just came for the ransom." I could say 'methinks she doth protest too much'. I think Xena was doing the big tough mercenary act but Akemi was getting under her skin, more than she was prepared to admit. > > And when Akemi kills Yodoshi she says to Xena, "It was my duty. He had to > die". And Xena immediately responds, "I don't care about that! What about > the ransom?!" And then screams in fury, "WHERE'S MY MONEY!" > > Akemi goes outside in the snow to commit sepukku. But first she asks, > "Forgive me, Xena". > > Xena, still furious, stomps around and says, "I don't suppose there's any > inheritance in this." (LOL!) > > I don't think the money motive slipped too far into the background in > Xena's mind, pretty poems, batting eyelashes or no. Oh yes, she was taken aback by Akemi's offing Yodoshi, and totally p***ed off that there wasn't going to be any ransom. In fact she was furious. But that doesn't mean that she didn't have some sort of feelings for Akemi. Even lovers (and I'm *not* saying Xena and Akemi were!) have the odd spat from time to time. (In fact one odd thing about the Xena-Gabs relationship is that they had so few spats. They had the odd Gabdrag and chakattack, but those were occasioned by Big Things caused by external forces. I would have expected two people who were as close as X and G were to bicker more often. But maybe TPTB decided little incidents like that weren't particularly edifying and edited them out ;) > > If ransom was Xena's only motivation, why would she bother to assist > > Akemi's suicide and later take her ashes for burial? And why was she so > > cut up about Akemi's death? > > Because she lost her chance to get the money? Seriously, perhaps because > when Akemi killed herself, it was such an unexpected, outrageous and > shocking thing that even Evil Xena was impressed by her courage. Yes, that's a good reason. I rather like that one. It's a noble reason and IMO a credible one. > And > also, perhaps because she actually chokes out another love poem to Xena > with her last breaths, after she has gutted herself. Talk about grace > under pressure. > > Akemi: The snow melts > And flowers pass > As all things do > But time > And love > They go on > > As Akemi bleeds to death and works her way through the poem, Xena is > distraught and upset. The death of such a young person in such a quest, > that of getting vengeance for the deaths of her family and then killing > herself to restore her own honor, I think this obviously touched Xena > deeply. A "toughy", even for Evil Xena to experience. Yes! Awesome. I found that last scene of Akemi's very moving. I'm sure Xena did too. > > > The only explanation is that she had, at least, either > > considerable affection or considerable respect for Akemi. So I tend to > > agree with LL on that. > > > > cr > > Yes she definitely did, both I think. Or else she wouldn't have gone to > her aid when called. But a sexual attraction? I'm with Lucy on wondering > how Xena could find both a barbarian like Borias and an ultra civilized > poet like Akemi as folks to hanker after. Somehow I just can't see her > rolling around in a Yurt or even on Lao Ma's floor with Akemi. > > KT Well, maybe not a sexual attraction, but very possibly (IMO) a sentimental one. Maybe LL, looking at it from the point of view of filming, in which most of the scenes were about Xena and Akemi's prior relationship, didn't see the manner of Akemi's death as being such a powerful motivation. And as you said, there weren't the same factors as with Lao Ma or M'Lila. So LL concluded that her prior relationship with Akemi must be the motivation and the only way that could be important enough was that they were lovers. So I think LL was right to look for a motivation but she missed your reasoning. I like your reasoning, it's satisfying. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 10:24:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Lynn W Ribaud Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: X, G, and "Knowing"; bickering cr wrote: > Oh yes, she was taken aback by Akemi's offing Yodoshi, and totally p***ed off > that there wasn't going to be any ransom. In fact she was furious. But > that doesn't mean that she didn't have some sort of feelings for Akemi. > Even lovers (and I'm *not* saying Xena and Akemi were!) have the odd spat > from time to time. (In fact one odd thing about the Xena-Gabs relationship > is that they had so few spats. They had the odd Gabdrag and chakattack, but > those were occasioned by Big Things caused by external forces. I would have > expected two people who were as close as X and G were to bicker more often. > But maybe TPTB decided little incidents like that weren't particularly > edifying and edited them out ;) Not *all* of them. I submit, for your consideration, A Day in the Life, In Sickness and in Hell, and If the Shoe Fits. Lynn Ribaud, Local Contact X3A Beamline, National Synchrotron Light Source, Brookhaven National Lab ribaud@acsu.buffalo.edu ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 12:13:46 EDT From: BElannafan@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: X, G, and "Knowing" Responding to this thread and points that folks have said about Akemi like, "I think Akemi aroused Xena's protective instincts..." And other folks have talked about Akemi's sex appeal or innocence. But I'm afraid I did not see these things as a benign part of her character. I think Akemi Used these things because she knew the 'student-desiring-to-learn-from-Xena' was a perfectly crafted Ploy to get what she wanted from Xena. To me Akemi was an Insignificant Character out of Xena's past (When Xena Wasn't Too Smart!) This character was totally manipulative. She was totally selfish. She was a liar. And Most significantly to me... She was able to maneuver the evil Xena to get her to help Akemi accomplish her schemes by using banal flattery that the old Xena fell for. But the End-of season-six-Xena would not have fallen for these platitudes and should only have remembered Akemi as a big mistake. (I mean, How many ex's do we folks in the real world have that we remember as not much more than mistakes? Hmm?) In other words Akemi's character was not worthy of the effort that we saw this season-six Xena expend. She was Not worthy of an "Oh, BTW, Gabrielle, there's another 'thing' (sweet thang) in my past that I must now run off and die for"." And this Akemi was one of the main the driving forces behind FIN. Just one of the many reasons why it did not work for me. ========================================================== Jan V. Great Post-FIN fanfic The Choice ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 13:12:19 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: [chakram-refugees] What DOES she see in her? BElannafan wrote: > Responding to this thread and points that folks have said about Akemi like, > "I think Akemi aroused Xena's protective instincts..." And other folks have > talked about Akemi's sex appeal or innocence. But I'm afraid I did not see > these things as a benign part of her character. I think Akemi Used these > things because she knew the 'student-desiring-to-learn-from-Xena' was a > perfectly crafted Ploy to get what she wanted from Xena. You know what I wonder--where did she get such good knowledge about Xena, about what would appeal to her? As Ife mentioned, I was also intrigued by the dialogue in the Xena meets Akemi scene: Her captor says: "Come, Akemi. Meet..." Akemi: "Xena. The warrior princess." X: "You know me?" A: "Oh, yes. I've heard that you're afraid of nothing. (Hmmm-you know--I wonder if her grandparents told her about Xena? And look what she finds important about Xena--that she's afraid of nothing. Also, this is a nice parallel of Xena's meeting with Lao Ma. "Oh, you've heard of me", said with proud delight and preening.) A: Kao here, he's afraid of many things." Borias: "This girl has spirit." (How true. It's just such excellent writing, when lines have multi-layers of meanings. All good work has subtextual meanings that are submerged under the obvious. Stewart is just SO good!) Kao: "This girl deserves to die. Speaking like that in front of my guests!" Ake: "You won't kill me. Xena won't let you. Because in her heart...she knows that she will soon love me." B: "Xena loves no one." A: "I'll be your student, Xena. You'll take me with you. You'll teach me everything you know." (Nice echoes of Xena's meeting with Gabrielle. Hey--how did Gab know that saying she wanted to learn from Xena was a good note to play? Hmmmm.) > To me Akemi was an Insignificant Character out of Xena's past > (When Xena Wasn't Too Smart!) You know, it's only after this thread that I'm beginning to realize what Akemi meant to Xena. And I think it's that she was just so furken star-crossed, just like Xena was. Look at the hand Akemi was dealt. Her father is a horrificially evil person. He did unspeakable things to her mother, sisters, brothers, grandparents (his folks or the wife's? I wonder about that too) and so far has gotten away with it. He's living in a nice comfortable upper class home, living a very civilized life. No one is making him pay for what he did to his wife, children and his parents and/or parents-in-law. It is left up to Akemi to take vengeance for the murder of her family by another family member. And when she does she will be dishonored and loathed, even her ashes will be scorned and defiled. This is another repeated theme of XWP. We also saw this in the Furies in Season Three--another of Xena's dilemma's. Again the parallels between Xena and Akemi are very strong. Hmmm. I wonder how that warlord got Akemi in the first place? I bet she ran up to him and said, "Take me with you!" Xena saw that Akemi was bound by the strictures of her culture to go down a path that led to her ultimate destruction. And I think evil Xena saw Akemi as a character caught in a great personal tragedy. And that Akemi responded with great intelligence, thought out and put into action a multi-layered and complex strategy, and got others to do what she needed them to do. I think Xena admired both her intellect and her perserverance. And felt compassion for her. And then when the final act was ritual suicide, Xena was impressed with Akemi's courage. There was a job to do and Akemi did it. Even though she knew she would have to die at the end of it. Akemi is a truly tragic hero. In the sense of a hero being someone who fights for what's right, no matter what the cost to themselves. Akemi's story becomes Xena's story. > This character was totally manipulative. Evil Xena knows and appreciates the value of being totally manipulative. And even Good Xena gives "manipulation of others to achieve my goal" a place of honor in her own tool kit. > She was totally selfish. If she were totally selfish, she wouldn't have killed herself after she killed her father. She would have walked away. But that would have made the killing of her father pure vengeance, rather than a sacred duty that must be fulfilled. And then must be atoned for with a great sacrifice. The parallels between Xena and Akemi both choosing to die to right a grevious wrong are strong and well developed. > She was a liar. She can join the club. On another list we're talking about what a little liar Gabrielle was...grin. And Xena lies all the time when she's pulling off one of her scams. That's just another well used strategy in her tool kit. > And Most significantly to me... She was able to maneuver the evil Xena to get > her to help Akemi accomplish her schemes by using banal flattery that the old > Xena fell for. Certainly she played on Xena's vanity. But Xena wasn't totally sucked in. I LOVE how Xena rolls her eyes when Akemi gives her the first love poem. Grin. But as I said, I think that Xena truly was after the money, as the death of Yodoshi scene shows. But that once Akemi committed seppuku, Xena's sense of her changed. She wasn't just this flibberty-gibbet poetry spouting airhead who couldn't even remember a few simple fight moves. She was a warrior, doing a warrior's job and being willing to pay the price for doing a warrior's job. And I think that is what made Xena treasure her memory. And be willing to go to her aid when she called. > But the End-of season-six-Xena would not have fallen for these platitudes and > should only have remembered Akemi as a big mistake. (I mean, How many ex's > do we folks in the real world have that we remember as not much more than > mistakes? Hmm?) Well, there was this guy once...Oh, *cough* er...never mind... Again, I think Akemi found her place in Xena's heart by dying in such a pure and noble way. FIN happens after the Debt. Xena now knows that some people can be both powerful and good. And certainly knows that some good people can also be bad in some self-serving ways. (As was Lao Ma with Lao Tzu.) > In other words Akemi's character was not worthy of the effort that we saw > this season-six Xena expend. > She was Not worthy of an "Oh, BTW, Gabrielle, there's another 'thing' (sweet > thang) in my past that I must now run off and die for"." > And this Akemi was one of the main the driving forces behind FIN. Just one > of the many reasons why it did not work for me. I'm really glad we've had this thread--I wasn't sure what Xena saw that was so good in Akemi either. Although I'm sure that Xena appreciated that Akemi gave Gabrielle the tattoo that saved her life. Again, part of the comlexity of Akemi's character. She KNOWS Gab will be going out there and she wants to try to help them all. Yes, this will lead to Yodoshi's final destruction also. But at least with the tattoo, Gabrielle will be protected during her fight and will survive it. I hadn't really thought much about Akemi since we've seen Xena go off to help old friends so often in the series. Do we know why Xena ran to help Helen? Or Cleopatra? Not really. But of course, we don't have their backstory to tell us why in the series. But after the posts on this thread I think perhaps that the line, "She broke my heart" has deeper meanings than just "This old girlfriend of mine broke my heart." Xena ain't just singing, "This old heart of mine, it's died a thousand times". I think perhaps Stewart may have written that line to mean, "She was a good kid, thoughtful, smart, creative and respectful of the rules of her society and culture. Then her father totally screwed up her life and she paid the ultimate sacrifice to make things right. She was such a noble character in such a rotten situation. That sucks so bad it hurts me to remember it." Look at the follow-up dialogue. Gabrielle: "She broke your heart? I don't understand." Xena: "For a while, I didn't understand myself." BUT: first, I may be wrong that that's what Stewart and Tapert meant. And second, I don't think that's how Lucy saw it. Or else she wouldn't have felt that in this particular ep Xena must have been totally in love with Akemi in a sexual way. Cause that's the only motivation for her behavior she could come up with. It's funny to me that Lucy and Renee didn't talk more to each other about what they thought the story was about while they were filming it. Look at what Renee said in the DVD transcript: (snipped for the relevant bits) Renee: "I just thought that 'Well, she must have kept this one from me because this is one that really hurt'. Because it was someone that you maybe loved more than Gabrielle or as much as. The loss was too dramatic...Because Xena's loss was so tremendous. It had to be about Xena. Xena had to be hurting and it couldn't be about how Gabrielle was...jealous. So it had to be about, 'My friend here is in mourning and in pain because of the loss of her friend that was so cherished'." L: "Wow!" Wow indeed. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 14:00:18 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: X, G, and "Knowing"; bickering Thel wrote: > > I would have expected two people who were as close as X and G were to > > bicker more often. > > But maybe TPTB decided little incidents like that weren't particularly > > edifying and edited them out ;) > Lynn responded: > Not *all* of them. I submit, for your consideration, A Day in > the Life, In Sickness and in Hell, and If the Shoe Fits. > And the beginning of One Against an Army, the end of The Reckoning, The fire side scene in The Convert where an exasperted Xena snarls at Gabrielle, "Don't tell me you're BUYING this!" Actually, many of the eps start off or end with them teasing or bugging each other. Like in Ulysses, where Gabrielle is lecturing Xena about how she should stop and smell the flowers. And the Deliverer (I think it's the Deliverer) starts off with Gab talking about big things being made out of little things. A boulder is made up of many little rocks, a mountain is made up out of boulders. Just a little flash of insight into an awareness of sub-atomic particles being at the bottom of everything. And Xena of course makes a snorfling joke about it. They often engage in just the kind of exchanges that drives people who love each other CRAZY in day to day living. And which leads up to such moments as, "Gabrielle, I really think you should stay here while I go off and do some stuff..." And just to be mean I bet, Gab says, "No." KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 18:57:12 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> > I really took this as more of a parody of the show itself -- the balance between crass commercialism and some redeeming artistic quality. I'd hate to see some wonderful writers have their work put into context of a block-buster > movie and manhandled by folks in suits. Plus, some work just isn't the same when it's communicated in the wrong format. I didn't think what happend was > a comment on Gabs' work, so much as a comment on what can happen to *any* work in a commercial venue. After all, I wouldn't put much credence into the > tastes of those idiots who produced her work. > > -- Ife Yes I agree that's what the episode was suppose to be. A homage to The Producers (one of my favorite films) and a satire on the commercialism of "art". Also there is a pretty good dig at artists who suddenly want to send a message with their works. Perhaps there were just too many themes running through the piece. There was some good things in the episode ( the costume parade of would be actors was a funny inside joke). I just thought Gabby's piece should have been awful in a more competent way - if that makes sense - a good writer writting a bad piece because she wasn't true to herself. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 19:31:22 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Akemi and Xena Ife wrote: " But it was very clear what they had that she wanted and why she would be attracted to them on whatever level. I couldn't see enough in Akemi to understand why mature Xena would respond to the same degree as she did with the infinitely superior Lao Ma." The question of what Xena got from Akemi is interesting. I don't know if I take Lucy's comments on outing Xena all that seriously and I don't really know if Lucy was frustrated by Xena's relationship with Akemi or not. But I think Rob put his finger on what Xena saw in Akemi. Rob said that Akemi manipulated Xena by stroking her ego and there it is - Akemi idolizes Xena - yes she uses her but I believe she genuinely admires her. Akemi is the first person who treats Xena as an adult - a person who is important in her own right. On the boat with Akemi and Borias, Borias laughs at Xena when she says she will be Akemi teacher - it is Akemi who immediately pops up and says Xena will be a great teacher ( and promptly gets kicked in the ribs). I think Akemi made Xena feel special - something more than just a thug on the make. In some way perhaps Xena was trying to duplicate the realtionship with Lo Mao with Xena as the mentor and Akemi as student. Also Xena was a bit baffeled by Akemi - the girl who gives her a poem and a sword. Young Xena I think also was attracted by an innocence that Akemi reprsented. Of course it was a lie - Akemi wasn't innoncent and I think it was that illusion being shattered that broke Xena's heart mor than her death. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #183 **************************************