From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #174 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Friday, June 28 2002 Volume 02 : Number 174 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [IfeRae@aol.] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [IfeRae@aol.] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: FIN - DC DVD [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Varia [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Happy Summer Solstice [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] [cr > [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Varia [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Varia [Lynn W Ribaud ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Varia [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Varia [meredith ] [chakram-refugees] OS: KSorbo on ET 6/25, Ryan Gosling on ET ["Jackie M. ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 01:09:22 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> > "Another numbers thing - Xena killed maybe a dozen Amazon leaders. Yet > there were several hundred Amazons stuck on the mountainside with Cyane. > How did they all get there? Without their leaders, were they all wiped > out by enemy tribes and ended up on the mountainside because of Alti's > power over their > leaders? " > Not only that, but didn't Alti's curse extend to the whole tribe? I'm assuming that covered all of them who died after Alti gained her power over the tribe. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 01:16:54 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> > "Another numbers thing - Xena killed maybe a dozen Amazon leaders. Yet > there were several hundred Amazons stuck on the mountainside with Cyane. > How did they all get there? Without their leaders, were they all wiped > out by enemy tribes and ended up on the mountainside because of Alti's > power over their > leaders? " > Not only that, but didn't Alti's curse extend to the whole tribe? I'm assuming that covered all of them who died after Alti gained her power over the tribe. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 01:16:55 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: FIN - DC DVD In a message dated 6/25/2002 5:42:58 PM Central Daylight Time, cande@sunlink.net writes: > Per Renee comments that she was playing it "straight". I got the impression > that it didn't have anything to do with subtext at all. What I thought she > meant was that she was playing the emotions in a straight forward manner. > In > other words when Gabby was sympathetic to Xena about Akemi's death she was > sincerely sympathetic to Xena and Renee didn't see Gabby as having any other > emotion that is. jealously or insecurities about her relationship with Xena. > Her reading of the script was straight in that context - nothing to do with > Gabrielle's sexual preference. I haven't heard the DVD comments, but have read them. That was my "take" too. Gabrielle could've been jealous as a friend and/or as a lover, but it seemed Renee played it as purely unselfish -- no curves -- as contrasted with her wounded, "I must save you from yourself (and for me)" reaction to learning about Lao Ma. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 01:16:57 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Varia In a message dated 6/26/2002 2:52:06 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > Maybe it > > was to emphasize that it was indeed a choice, not the inevitability Ares > > always wanted them to think, and that Varia -- like Xena -- had the > > strength to recognize her own need to believe him and resist the > temptation > > to do so. Or not. > > > > -- Ife > > Interesting. And I'm sure you're right. (Howcome I always end up > agreeing > with you? ;)>> Heh. Not always. However, I think we both feel there had to be some reason TPTB suggested so many parallels between Xena and Varia. I peronally love the many ways they showed the thin line between Xena and many of those she opposed. Indeed, part of her "lesson" may have been to give some the chance to redeem themselves, just as she'd been given. She literally put her neck on the line for both Livia and Varia. Callisto, too, for that matter (in FALLEN). > > And as Ares said, 'it's what I do'. Actually, it's a little bit > difficult > to swallow Ares' involvement so soon after Xena did him a huge favour in You > > Are There - though he did point out in his own defense that Eve was no part > of his plan and he wouldn't stop Xena rescuing her. > > Are we sure he didn't set the whole thing up just to see Xena in action? > > Well, he had to have figured Xena would get involved somehow, at some point, given her pledge to Marga and Gabrielle's connection to the Amazons. Maybe he didn't plan it this time, but he sure got a kick out of watching Xena do her thing once she did appear. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 23:41:13 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Happy Summer Solstice FIN spoiler! > If Winter Solstice is honored in the Xenaverse, so should the Summer one. > Best wishes on the shortest night! > > LeeD;Warrior Jester Yes, best wishes to us all. Including to the beloved enduring spirit of the Warrior Princess who sacrificed her life for the greater good during the Summer Solstice last year. (Well during that week at least, depending upon what night your station showed XWP.) KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 20:34:46 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] On Thursday 27 June 2002 09:57, Lilli Sprintz wrote: > >>Cheryl and CR discussed > >># > >># > >># > >># > >># > >># > >># > > Cheryl said, > > > Yes, I don't know if it was the series and the discussion on Chakram, > but some time around then I remember reading on the web about the > archaeology dig in Siberia that had found proof that women had indeed > been warriors...being buried with a spear comes to mind, and it was a > woman who had done that archaeology dig. There was a good article about that in Whoosh Issue 23, if it's still up. > >>I love the scruffy crew of young Amazons - they have a > >>wonderful enthusiasm - I especially like the scene where Otere ponders if > >> she now has Xena's power and Yakut promptly punches her in the nose to > >> test the theory. > > Yes, they acted like.....youngsters, for lack of a better word. Not > young children, but still an innocence about them that despite the > violence and difficult way of life they had needed to learn, they played. Nicely put. But they also had an air of determination, I think - they'd found a leader (Xena) and they were willing to follow her up against Alti. Maybe part of it was ignorance of what battle was really like (how many battles had they fought? - we don't know) but they weren't lacking in courage. In fact I think they're my favourites out of all the Amazons for just that combination of qualities. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 21:19:36 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Thursday 27 June 2002 17:09, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > > "Another numbers thing - Xena killed maybe a dozen Amazon leaders. Yet > > there were several hundred Amazons stuck on the mountainside with Cyane. > > How did they all get there? Without their leaders, were they all > > wiped out by enemy tribes and ended up on the mountainside because of > > Alti's power over their > > leaders? " > > Not only that, but didn't Alti's curse extend to the whole tribe? I'm > assuming that covered all of them who died after Alti gained her power over > the tribe. > > -- Ife I suppose that was why she needed Cyane's blood - that is, the blood of the Amazon leader. (My question was partly rhetorical - that is, I thought it was the most likely explanation). cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 21:11:13 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Varia On Thursday 27 June 2002 10:47, Cheryl Ande wrote: > > The trouble with Varia was that she was a good warrior but was just too > immature to be queen. She made bad decisions: no one their right minds > would think the guy in Helicon would keep his word. He hated the Amazons > just as much as he hated Xena (which was obvious since he killed a whole > slew of Amazons before he made the deal with Varia). > Actually, the whole idea of attacking the fortress to rescue Varia was dumb, too. Just exactly what Bellerophon wanted. Yes, they should have sent Xena in to infiltrate the place and try and rescue Varia (as they did). And if that was unsuccessful, they should have put up a nice monument to Varia and elected another Queen. And figured out ways to wear Bellerophon down on their own territory. He couldn't stay in his castle for ever, he'd have to come out and ride through the forest sooner or later. > > Yet Rob does have tendency to kill lots of people off which sort of makes > since in a way. I think Xena really had as a sub-theme the end of the > mythological world. We don't have centaurs, Amazons, or great warriors > like Xena any more so Rob is telling us what happened to them. Not a happy > story perhaps Rob is of a pessimistic mind set - maybe that's why he loves > Lucy she appears to be an upbeat person maybe she's yin to his yang ;-) > > CherylA I was musing on that. And I think maybe there's a tendency in classical legends for things to end. Camelot ended in a huge battle of good vs evil. The Norse gods had their gotterdammerung (or something like that, I'm hazy on that mythology). Even the Robin Hood stories, IIRC, ended with his death. So I think Rob was following classical precedents in winding down the series - - though I don't know if that makes him a pessimist. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 21:52:24 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Varia On Thursday 27 June 2002 17:16, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > > Interesting. And I'm sure you're right. (Howcome I always end up > > agreeing with you? ;)>> > > Heh. Not always. However, I think we both feel there had to be some > reason TPTB suggested so many parallels between Xena and Varia. I > peronally love the many ways they showed the thin line between Xena and > many of those she opposed. Indeed, part of her "lesson" may have been to > give some the chance to redeem themselves, just as she'd been given. She > literally put her neck on the line for both Livia and Varia. Callisto, > too, for that matter (in FALLEN). Umm, 'Fallen Angel'. 'Fallen' is a Season 7 / unproduced script by Missy Good, IIRC. Just to complicate things ;) Actually, I've only just started seeing those parallels between Xena and Varia in re-runs. There are moments when I like Varia, but not that many. So howcome I almost always like Xena? I guess it's a personality thing. Charisma or whatever. Maybe I'll get to like Varia better with more viewings of Season 6 episodes - it happened with Velasca. > > And as Ares said, 'it's what I do'. (snip) > > > > Are we sure he didn't set the whole thing up just to see Xena in action? > > > > Well, he had to have figured Xena would get involved somehow, at some > point, given her pledge to Marga and Gabrielle's connection to the Amazons. > Maybe he didn't plan it this time, but he sure got a kick out of watching > Xena do her thing once she did appear. He sure did that. I wonder, if Varia had started to swing her sword at Xena, whether Ares might not have zapped it out of her hands. Would he have let Varia kill his favourite mortal? cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 09:18:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Lynn W Ribaud Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Varia On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, cr wrote: > On Thursday 27 June 2002 10:47, Cheryl Ande wrote: > > Yet Rob does have tendency to kill lots of people off which sort of makes > > since in a way. I think Xena really had as a sub-theme the end of the > > mythological world. We don't have centaurs, Amazons, or great warriors > > like Xena any more so Rob is telling us what happened to them. Not a happy > > story perhaps Rob is of a pessimistic mind set - maybe that's why he loves > > Lucy she appears to be an upbeat person maybe she's yin to his yang ;-) > > > > CherylA > > I was musing on that. And I think maybe there's a tendency in classical > legends for things to end. Camelot ended in a huge battle of good vs > evil. The Norse gods had their gotterdammerung (or something like that, I'm > hazy on that mythology). Even the Robin Hood stories, IIRC, ended with his > death. I believe you mean "Ragnarok", and don't quote my spelling... Lynn Lynn Ribaud, Local Contact X3A Beamline, National Synchrotron Light Source, Brookhaven National Lab ribaud@acsu.buffalo.edu ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 14:30:10 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Varia In a message dated 6/27/02 3:31:54 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: << Actually, I've only just started seeing those parallels between Xena and Varia in re-runs. There are moments when I like Varia, but not that many. So howcome I almost always like Xena? I guess it's a personality thing. Charisma or whatever. Maybe I'll get to like Varia better with more viewings of Season 6 episodes - it happened with Velasca. >> I liked Varia OK, mainly because I could picture her as similar to a teenaged, pre-Cortese Xena. Of course, now I've ascribed all sorts of extraordinary qualities to even a young Xena, though Lucy played the post-Caesar young Xena as quite bratty and wild. At least Varia doesn't pick her nose or spit water at children. I wonder, if Varia had started to swing her sword at Xena, whether Ares might not have zapped it out of her hands. Would he have let Varia kill his favourite mortal? >> I can't recall a time when Ares interceded for Xena, except when it involved himself or his family. No, I think part of the thrill was seeing Xena manage to escape seemingly impossible situations. He had enormous faith in her instincts, as well as physical abilities and brains -- even when he hadn't a clue about what she was thinking. If she'd let Varia kill her, I think he would've chalked it up to her having finally grown too soft to be the warrior he admired so much. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 22:08:50 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Varia Hi, Thelonius noted: >I was musing on that. And I think maybe there's a tendency in classical >legends for things to end. Camelot ended in a huge battle of good vs >evil. The Norse gods had their gotterdammerung (or something like that, I'm >hazy on that mythology). The "twilight of the gods" idea as portrayed on X:WP originated in the Norse mythology. In fact, the H:TLJ episodes where Ragnarok occurred were based pretty solidly on the Norse myths. Tapert et al. had obviously been doing their reading. >So I think Rob was following classical precedents in winding down the series >- though I don't know if that makes him a pessimist. I don't think it does. If anything, it makes him a realist. Do gods and Amazons and centaurs etc. exist today? Sadly, no. Why not provide explanations for why that is? It's not like the series hadn't already explained where we got CPR, Cesarean sections, kite-flying, etc... :) ============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth ============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://www.smoe.org/meth/muzak.html ============================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 16:44:51 -1000 (HST) From: "Jackie M. Young" Subject: [chakram-refugees] OS: KSorbo on ET 6/25, Ryan Gosling on ET This is a bit *late* (still *slowly* catching up on things ;( ), but on Tues. 6/25 on ET I heard mention of KSorbo playing golf for Bob Goen's Celebrity Golf Tournament or something, to benefit Make A Wish Foundation. When the camera was on Kevin, he stripped down to his undershorts to reveal the logo for his current show, Andromeda, as a promo. ;) And this is *really* late, but for the past several weeks, ET had been mentioning Ryan Gosling going out with his co-star in his new movie about skinheads (forgot the title ;( ), Sandra Bullock?? Seems our little Young Herc has been *getting around*.....;P Just FYI, - --Jackie ****************************************************** * Proud to have the same birthday as Lucy Lawless! * * * * "I think New Zealand geographically comes from * * ... Hawai'i." --Lucy Lawless, Late Show, 4/9/96 * * * * JACKIE YOUNG, JYOUNG@LAVA.NET * * * ****************************************************** ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #174 **************************************