From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #172 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Wednesday, June 26 2002 Volume 02 : Number 172 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] Varia [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] [chakram-refugees] July 1st is Xena Meetup Day ["Kym Masera Taborn" > ["Cheryl And] [chakram-refugees] Re: FIN - DC DVD ["Cheryl Ande" ] [chakram-refugees] Re: Varia [KLOSSNER9@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 22:34:14 +1200 From: cr Subject: [chakram-refugees] Varia *** Spoilers for Path of Vengeance and Helicon *** also Coming Home and Dangerous Prey spoiler space s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s Hmm, Helicon is just playing on TV4 now. I never did care much for Varia - I always thought Marga was a much more regal Queen. But it's mostly just a reaction to Varia's personality rather than the way she was written. There did seem to be some conflicting facets to her character. Marga saw a lot in her, which (I think) throws some question on Marga's judgement. I think maybe Varia was intended to be a complex character, a bit like Xena herself, but somehow the different sides of her character never seemed to fit together into a complete personality the way Xena's did. Varia certainly copped a lot of flak for trying to kill Gabs, but oddly enough, I don't really hold that against her (can tell I'm not a Gabfan, can't ya? :) - she was doing it in the belief she was saving the Amazons from a massacre. (Incidentally, what gave Gabby the authority to depose Varia as a Queen? I don't think she had any constitutional right to do that). What I find far more disturbing was the way Varia ordered the Roman prisoners killed in Path of Vengeance. There was no need or excuse for that. OK, so it's the sort of thing that Evil Xena would do, but that was 'ten years ago', this is 'now' and I just can't accept that a leader who would order that could have any redeeming qualities. From a villain I could accept it, but Varia isn't supposed to be a villain. Now that (IMO) should render Varia unfit to be Queen. Not that Gabby was any better as a battle leader than Varia would have been ... why didn't those dumb Amazons just appoint Xena an honorary Amazon for the occasion? cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 21:13:24 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Tuesday 25 June 2002 11:53, Cheryl Ande wrote: > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > Oooooohhh!! Sin Trade! My *favourite*! 8) > > Season 4 was the year we traveled to far off lands, learned about new > religions and Xena gets some really good and really bad news about > Gabrielle and the future. So we start the season off in a far off land, > meet a Sameness and the soul rattling news is delivered - how appropriate. > > These episodes are some of my favorites of the series. It introduces a who > new tribe of Amazons - the forest Amazons or the Russian Amazons - take > your pick. More commonly called the 'Siberian Amazons' I think. > I love the scruffy crew of young Amazons - they have a > wonderful enthusiasm for blood letting, a real joy for battle, and they are > smart enough to realize what a prize they have when they stumble upon Xena > (they aren't too proud to learn from the best). Otere and Yakut are > wonderful as the tribe's leaders and there is a nice chemistry between - I > especially like the scene where Otere ponders if she now has Xena's power > and Yakut promptly punches her in the nose to test the theory. They act > like I would imagine Amazon best friend would be. Yes, they're cool. I liked it when one of them (Otere? I can't remember) wanted to kill Xena 'just to be on the safe side'. And when Xena kicked the sword out of her hand there was this lovely collective 'oooh' from the gang. And yes, they were so eager to learn from Xena. It must have been a bit of a shock to them when Xena confessed to killing all the Amazon leaders. (Howcome they'd never heard of that? Presumably 'cos all the witnesses ended up dead - and without any shamanesses, they had no way of contacting the 'other side' and asking). Which leads me to conclude that as a fully qualified shamaness (can you say 'I have many skills'? ;) Xena must have taught Yakut much of her arcane knowledge, or at least enough to let Yakut get in (psychic) touch with the spirits so she could pick up the rest. > The episode of course also introduces our new recurring villains, Alti > (Clare Stanisfield). CS is deliciously evil and seductive as Alti. Yes, she was. A complete contrast to Callisto, too. Callisto looked as un-villainous as she could be, it was Hudson's incredible intensity that made her a believable villain. Claire just looked like the quintessential heavy villain, from the voice, the makeup, everything. As villains go, Callisto who had only just died in the previous episode, was the hardest act to follow. IMO, Claire did remarkably well. I would have loved to see Alti meet up with Callisto. My money would have been on Callisto - narrowly. > Alti > slowly seduces Xena to her dark ways. It is interesting to watch Alti push > Xena's buttons. First she practically serves Xena a nubile young girl, > Anakin, on a plate. Yup. That was kinda unmistakeable subtext. And the expression on Anokin's face was R18 all by itself. Looks liike Xena swings both ways . > Seeing this episode after seeing FIN and Destiny the > viewer can only speculate that Alti knows of Xena's tendency to trust and > befriend young women. Then when Anakin rejects Xena in the land of the > dead did she know that Xena would be infuriated - another betrayal and > another girl friend lost. I have always wondered why Anakin is so hostile > to Xena - she blames Xena for killing her soul yet one can assume that > hanging out with Alti is to healthy for your soul either. Did Alti > manipulated Anakin into believing Xena had hurt her in some way? Alti sure > isn't surprised when Anakin says this and just has the right solution for > Xena's anger. They never showed us why Xena was so obsessed with Anokin or why Anokin so resentful of Xena. Ah well, we don't need to know everything. > Finally and certainly we have Lucy's great performance as Xena and Young > Xena. Xena is mesmerizing as the grieving Xena - stalking through the rain > gathering the things she needs to visit Gabrielle in the land of the dead. > The audience can see Xena touched a bit by madness her - hearing Gabrielle > calling her in the wind, sewing the bloody hide of the deer into her > shamaness costume huddled in a dank cave, and remembering her dark past. That was marvellous acting, that air of desperation. She looked oddly vulnerable - though far from helpless, the two things are quite different. And she had some very nice moves in the fight over the Young Dead Amazon's body. And I thought the opening sequence was powerful - her meeting with Hades ("I'm not interested in your *workload*, Hades!") and the whole travelling and deer-killing sequence (notice how it was mostly raining?). And LoDuca's score was *the* best in the series IMO, it sounded ominous, mysterious and haunting. > > Anyway great episodes. > > Points to ponder - It's amazing that LL can look elegant dressed in > buckskin with antlers on her head. I thought that fur coat was really, really cool. But the Bambi antlers were just too cute (and 'cute' is not a term of aproval in my lexicon! :) > Do the Amazons have Avon ladies or MaryK ladies (with pink saddles) who > supply them with all that black eyeliner? I expect it's soot. Or too many late nights around the campfire talking about the old Amazon legends. Question - where did the Ewokazons come from? Were they just the very junior Amazons who were left orphaned when Xena killed all the leaders? Actually, there must have been a lot of adult non-leader Amazons that Xena didn't kill - what happened to them? Another numbers thing - Xena killed maybe a dozen Amazon leaders. Yet there were several hundred Amazons stuck on the mountainside with Cyane. How did they all get there? Without their leaders, were they all wiped out by enemy tribes and ended up on the mountainside because of Alti's power over their leaders? > Xena Princess of Understatements deems Alti's power to make people relive > their past a "toughie" !? > Does anyone besides myself cringe when Alti kisses her henchman? I don't cringe, but I keep expecting him to start twitching wildly and die. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 23:11:32 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Varia On Tuesday 25 June 2002 22:34, cr wrote: > *** Spoilers for Path of Vengeance and Helicon *** > also Coming Home and Dangerous Prey > > spoiler > space > s > s > s > s > s > s > s > s > s > s > s > s > s > s > s > s > s > s > s > s > s > s > > > What I find far more disturbing was the way Varia ordered the Roman > prisoners killed in Path of Vengeance. There was no need or excuse for > that. OK, so it's the sort of thing that Evil Xena would do, but that was > 'ten years ago', this is 'now' and I just can't accept that a leader who > would order that could have any redeeming qualities. From a villain I > could accept it, but Varia isn't supposed to be a villain. Now that (IMO) > should render Varia unfit to be Queen. And on reflection I think Cyane, the northern Amazon, would have made a better Queen than Varia. (But then I'm biassed in favour of the northern Amazons... ever since Sin Trade ;) They didn't say who ended up as Queen at the end of Helicon, IIRC. Obviously not Gabby, since she wasn't going to stick around. Maybe Varia resumed her title, or maybe Gabby's battlefield demotion of her stuck and Cyane inherited the title. But IMO, in that case, Cyane would have either had to arrange for a convenient accident to happen to Varia (and Cyane didn't look the type to do that) or she would have had to spend her reign watching her back. Anyone get the irony of the closing words 'To a strong Amazon nation' - with just a handful of them standing around? Were they all that were left? If so, that would be very sad. Also a YAXI considering the large numbers of Amazons at the start of Path of Vengeance.... their attrition rate can't have been high enough to account for that. Maybe they were just a war party and there were a lot more Amazons back in camp, or maybe that was all that was left of the Amazons. My sense of irony tells me that's all that were left but my sentimental side would like to believe the other alternative. It would be very sad to believe that a few of those standing there were all that were left of Yakut's tribe that Xena helped back into existence. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 09:48:07 -0700 From: "Kym Masera Taborn" Subject: [chakram-refugees] July 1st is Xena Meetup Day JULY 1ST IS XENA MEETUP DAY! . Be there or be square! Xena Fans everywhere -- up to 540 cities worldwide. On Monday, July 1 @ 7:00PM local time, they can meet face to face with other Xena Fans in their town. See the Xena MEETUP page: http://xena.meetup.com. The organizers want to make this monthly, and it sounds fun. Hearkens back to the good old days when we'd get together and discuss the heck out of Xena. Now the opportunity is back without having to fly across a continent or pay high prices just to get a Xena social fix. I look forward to seeing old friends and meeting new friends. I will be at the Malibu gathering. See you there! Kym ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 18:26:22 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> cr wrote: "Question - where did the Ewokazons come from? Were they just the very junior Amazons who were left orphaned when Xena killed all the leaders? " That's the impression I got. Otere was about 10 when Cyane and the others were killed so I guess the others were those left orphaned by Xena or various other catastrophies. "Actually, there must have been a lot of adult non-leader Amazons that Xena didn't kill - what happened to them? " Xena did say that once she killed the leaders the tribe was attacked by other enemies and destroyed. Perhaps other tribes took advatage of their weekness or Alti finished them off. It's posssible that Xena killed the warriors and the adults that were left couldn't defend the tribal lands. "Another numbers thing - Xena killed maybe a dozen Amazon leaders. Yet there were several hundred Amazons stuck on the mountainside with Cyane. How did they all get there? Without their leaders, were they all wiped out by enemy tribes and ended up on the mountainside because of Alti's power over their leaders? " Must be all the other dead Amazons who died over the ten years since Xena killed Cyane. Does look like the Amazons don't function well without their leaders. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 18:46:16 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: FIN - DC DVD I've been following some the conversation here so here is my two cents. Per Renee comments that she was playing it "straight". I got the impression that it didn't have anything to do with subtext at all. What I thought she meant was that she was playing the emotions in a straight forward manner. In other words when Gabby was sympathetic to Xena about Akemi's death she was sincerely sympathetic to Xena and Renee didn't see Gabby as having any other emotion that is. jealously or insecurities about her relationship with Xena. Her reading of the script was straight in that context - nothing to do with Gabrielle's sexual preference. As for Lucy saying she didn't get the subtext - I don't remember her or Renee saying that. The actresses know there is subtext I don't think they were that oblivious . There certainly played X & G as two people who love one another. I have heard Katherine Fulgate say that their were plenty of people on the staff of Xena who saw X&G as lovers. I suspect that for the actresses whether or not Xena and Gabrielle were actually lovers was not as important as showing the love between the two and left the speculation as to what kind of love that was up to the audience. I would imagine that leaving some ambiguity in that area freed both of them to explore different aspects of their characters' relationships with each other and other characters they encountered. Let's face once characters become lovers in a show they become pretty boring real fast (i.e. Moonlighting and X-Files) so a little mystery is good. As for the commentary being too technical. I didn't find it so but I find the process of film making really interesting. I was impressed with how much technical knowledge LL had. I expected Rob and ROC to have this grasp because they direct but I was impressed with Lucy. That gal knows her craft. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 19:47:53 EDT From: KLOSSNER9@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: Varia /Anyone get the irony of the closing words 'To a strong Amazon nation' - with /just a handful of them standing around? Were they all that were left? If so, that /would be very sad. Also a YAXI considering the large numbers of Amazons at /the start of Path of Vengeance.... their attrition rate can't have been /high enough to account for that. Maybe they were just a war party and /there were a lot more Amazons back in camp, or maybe that was all that was /left of the Amazons. In The Chakram (the fan club magazine) no. 16, at the end of page 5 and beginning of p. 6, Renee O'Connor said of Helicon "This was the extinction of the Amazon race. These were the last few Amazons in the world." I have no doubt she is correct about Tapert's intentions. In a little more than the last two years of the series Tapert killed off Ephiny, Amarice, Cyrene, Joxer, most of the gods, the Centaurs, the Amazons and Xena. He was clearly determined to destroy the world he had created. Boeotian ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #172 **************************************