From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #162 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Sunday, June 16 2002 Volume 02 : Number 162 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] ALL things in NZ - being Eve [Lilli Sprintz > [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: unproduced Xena script [cr ] RE: [chakram-refugees] They have no shame! (Beastmaster) [mirrordrum Subject: [chakram-refugees] ALL things in NZ - being Eve Daniel T. Miller "Silly me, I forgot to say that Amazon Queen / Sheriff Alison Bruce is Eve's Mum and uhhh. . . you know. . . the guy who was the second Hades is Eve's Dad." You know, I wish we could see some of the NZ films and Aussie films here in the US. I know from discussions here that they are so good. And, I once, when visiting family out east in Pennsylvania, got to watch an Australian film on cable there, and it was SO GOOD. That's all. L ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 01:24:57 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> In a message dated 6/14/2002 1:58:38 AM Central Daylight Time, fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes: > And I agree-being with Gabrielle did indeed help Xena to bring these > deliberately submerged and deliberately blocked and ignored good feelings > back up to the surface, to be felt and embraced again. > > Xena says in Sin Trades that Gabrielle gave her a light of her own. But I > think more it was that having someone so young, innocent and compassionate > as Gabrielle in her life just helped Xena's little internal pilot light of > goodness spark up into flame again. > I understand your reluctance to give others -- Gabrielle included -- all the credit for Xena's "re-creation" (to borrow the term she uses with Tara) of herself. I agree that she always carried that potential within. However, I also think Cande's comment that Xena "learned" that because of Gabrielle isn't so far off. When we first see Xena, she seems to have lost faith in her light (if she sees it at all) -- in its usefulness, its strength, its ability to illuminate the darkness within her. She certainly doesn't seem to know what to do with it -- with herself -- beyond burying what she felt she'd become. I believe she saw its possibilities mirrored in Gabrielle. Gabrielle causes her to call on that light again. Initially, it's more in the form of stoic duty centered around the past, her "bad" self. Gabrielle helps her to find purpose and joy in the present, to see warmth and and other facets of her light, not just destructiveness. Gabrielle's own quest led them to India, where Xena gained true confidence in her "way" and the knowledge that it was preparation for an even higher purpose in the future. To me, a good teacher doesn't always tell you what to do or take you where you can't or don't know you want to go. She gives you good stuff to work with, creates a safe but stimulating environment to risk going beyond your fears and perceived limits, draws out and challenges the best in you, prods you when you get off course and praises you when you hit the mark. She sees and helps you develop potential that you and others can't see, that might well lie dormant otherwise. I believe that's why Xena called Gabrielle "a good teacher." Like you, I think Xena is being overly generous when she says Gabrielle "gave" her her light, but I doubt it would have flamed nearly as high, brightly or heroically without Gabrielle steadily fanning it. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 00:09:50 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: unproduced Xena script On Friday 14 June 2002 08:08, Lynn W Ribaud wrote: cr wrote: > > > > > > Errrm, cross, I think. Xena should be getting used to it by > > > > > > now. (snip) > > > > Awww, you just don't appreciate my black sense of humour ;) > > Sadly, yes, I think you're right in this case. Sorry if I offended anybody by that. > > > > > And a bit sideways of the topic, we have stand-in chakrams > > > > > (chakra?). I can think of three -- Gab's in The Greater Good, > > > > > Meg's in Warrior...Princess, and the eel in The Quill is Mightier. > > One other -- the bowl, or whatever, that Gabs threw in the cell in > "King of Assassins" (I think...). The return flight of that throw was a > bit...short. Thanks to Julia Goldman for that one! Umm, I'm not sure if a dinner plate really counts as a 'stand-in chakram' ;) > > > > This leaves the chacky in Xena Scrolls as the YAXI, since it was a broken > > Mark 1. Which should surely have disappeared when the dark and light > > chackys were merged in Chakram. > > As I recall, there is lots in "The Xena Scrolls" that doesn't play > out well with later events. E.g., the "Eye of Hephaestus" was destroyed, > as I recall, by Herc in one of his anti-Ares acts (I believe it was on > one of his visits to Ares' Halls of War). I think you may mean Armageddon Now - but, IIRC, it wasn't specifically named as 'eye of Hephaestus', it was just a decoration accompanying the weapons Heffie had forged. Herc destroyed the weapons, I can't remember if the 'decoration' was destroyed. > And why is it Xena's descendant > that has to release him? D'ya suppose Eli's boss has something to do with > *that* too? No, I think not, that pre-dated the appearance of Eli. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 13:20:39 -0400 From: mirrordrum Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] They have no shame! (Beastmaster) At 08:53 PM 6/14/2002 -0400, Lee Daley wrote: >A lot of villainess wear skimpy green outfits. hmmmm. i wonder if lady macbeth, that articulate baddy, will be having a costume change this summer. shall we expect to see her in a lettuce-hued jog bra and shorn skirt accursing the air and remonstrating with that damned spot? md--wishing she could see the play ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 20:23:39 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] RE: Xena and Religion Interestind discussion of limbo. I am not a Catholic and I have never quite understood the concept of limbo but as I understand it now I'm sure that's what was about to happen to the 40,000. I always felt that behind the mythology of Xena was a stong Christian and Catholic world view. The fact that we have Xena, a villian, searching for redemtion is certainly harks back to Christian ideas but as we get into the story line of Eve and Eli it does become stronger. In one of the last Spectrum magazines there was interesting article about Eve conversion and the difference between Eve's redemption and Xena's. Livia is saved by grace - her redemption is a gift unssked for but joyously accepted. She is truly "born again" and becomes a new person, Eve. As Eve she can distance herself from the actions of Livia because for her Livia truly no longer exists. It's not that she denies the evil Livia did or that she is now believes herself guiltless, it's that she no longer she herself as that person. Xena's redemptive process is very different. Xena always carries the burden of her sins. She never can accept that there is any outside agency that can save her. For her, redemption is in her hands and will achieved by her own action. She will be saved by her works. In Forgiven she will not seek the priest's forgiveness because she cannot accept that anyone has the power to forgive her except those that she harmed. Xena is forever trying to make right her evils. For her real redemption doesn't come until she can fix her greatest wrong - her sacrafice for the 40,000 is her greatest redemptive act. We as witnesses may feel it is wron-headed but for Xena the only path to redemption is self-sacrafice. Even if the 40,000 all yelled "we forgive you Xena" it would have not been enough for Xena. Xena must act - she would never allow the 40,000 to sacrafice their grace for her. In her final redemptive act she truly understands the greater good. She saves the 40,000 sacraficing her life and her friendship with Gabrielle and yes sacrafices Gabrielle's happiness because the 40,000 represents the greatest good. It is of course the greatest irony of the series is that the person who personified the concept of the Greater Good, Gabrielle, is now the one who finds herself a victim of that lesson. CherylA Post script: Another Xena comparasion to Christ from Fallen Angel. I believe there is a legend that Christ after his death visits Hell and rescues the unjustily condemned. Thus we have Xena's save Gabrielle. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 20:43:13 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Spiderman the movie question I jsut saw Spider man saw Brice Campbell, Ted Raimi, and Lucy (almost missed her when I just got back into theater from the lady's room). However wasn't that Chales Keating (Zeus from God Fearing Child) as one of the directors of the company that gets killed by the Green Goblin? I can't find the complete cast list online and I couldn't read all the cast after the movie (I did see Lucy's name - last one on the cast listing as "punk rocker girl"). CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 22:54:09 -0400 From: mirrordrum Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena and religion At 06:55 PM 6/14/2002 -0800, KTL wrote: >The burning of hell is not literal--it is the mental anquish, regret and >agony of knowing that you will forever be separated from your god and >never be allowed to live in his presence. For eternity. hunh! i expect if you asked gabrielle or xena, hell would be separation from one's soulmate. xena has all the gods she runs into pretty well in hand. ;-> md ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #162 **************************************