From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #161 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Saturday, June 15 2002 Volume 02 : Number 161 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [none] ["Jackie M. Young" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena and her sidekick [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] ALL things N.Z. --Being Eve [NZJester ] [chakram-refugees] Re: ALL things N.Z. --Being Eve ["Daniel T. Miller" Subject: [none] Hi, the 7th-Ever Hawai'i Xenafest ended with a *bang* on Sun., June 9, and a great time was had by all! ;=) Attendance was up from last time (60 actual warm bodies, and they *finally* listened to me and stayed all the way through!! ;P ) I suppose it helped that we lowered the price to a measly *$6*, that I worked my *a** off to get us some good publicity, and that we had a well-known actor from the show there as well (Robert Trebor--"Salmoneus"). ;P If I get a chance, I'll post a more detailed report. ;) In the meantime, Bob has asked that I pass on to any lists available that he'll be at the San Diego Comic Con in Aug. and would appreciate any Xena/Herc fans showing up at that event. ;) He gave me the URL below to refer people to: ======= If you're in touch with any fans from the San Diego area you might pass this along to them: Click Here: Welcome to Comic-Con International: San Diego! ======= Feel free to pass along to others. ;) Thanks, - --Jackie ****************************************************** * Proud to have the same birthday as Lucy Lawless! * * * * "I think New Zealand geographically comes from * * ... Hawai'i." --Lucy Lawless, Late Show, 4/9/96 * * * * JACKIE YOUNG, JYOUNG@LAVA.NET * * * ****************************************************** ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 22:57:45 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> I throw my vote in also for the Debt as best ever ep. Then I think FIN, then Adventures in the Sin Trade. At least tonight that is. Everything after the Debt is subject to change, but ever since the Debt first aired, it hit number one on my scorecard and has never been toppled. Mucho Snippo merely for bandwidtho On Fri, 26 Apr 2002 cande@sunlink.net wrote: > I think the role of Gabrielle was to humanize Xena. > I don't Xena would have been interesting as a stoic lone warrior who > never had to deal with the complications of human emotions. Xena > learned a lot from Gabrielle - she learned to love, had silly fun, > forgive and that she could be forgiven. Those are not weaknesses but > things that made Xena stronger. Rather than Xena learning these things from Gab, I think the presence of Gabrielle in her life helped Xena stay on her quest of getting back to what she used to be, back to when she did have things like love, fun and forgiveness in her life. I've always seen the series as the story of a bad person regaining their humanity, working her way back on a very painful path up from the abyss of hatred, vengeance and viciousness she had dug herself into. We know that when Cortese attacked Xena's village and her brother died under her "command", she started to change inside. I think she deliberately began to submerge the good human side of herself in order to do the job that she felt needed doing. (And to escape from the hurt that taking up warrioring had caused her.) She took on a hardness, an attitude, a narrow focus that closed off a lot of the good parts of her psyche. She lost her joy, her innocence, her compassion, her love for others, pushing these humanizing attributes deep down below the surface, shunting them into a never visited spare corner inside the Destroyer of Nations. She had already made the decision to change before she met Gabrielle. And then she meets up with this good, innocent, young woman who wants to go off adventuring and become a warrior. A person a lot like her dead brother, Lyceus. Rescuing Gabrielle (something she had failed to do for Lyceus), taking care of Gabrielle, protecting her, creating a safe environment for her to do her growing up in gave Xena a practical mission that she understood and knew how to do. And holding these traits of Gabrielle's, goodness, innocence and compassion, as something worthy of protecting also validated and nurtured her own spiritual quest to work her way back to being a good person, which wasn't so instinctive and usual for her. It was a brand new undertaking for her. And it pretty much defined their relationship for the first two seasons and continued to exist and have ramifications throughout the last four. (Note: This is part of why I feel that Gabrielle becoming a warrior was one of Xena's greatest defeats in her own mind. She couldn't save Gabrielle from her own fate. And she ached over that.) The uniqueness of Xena's story is that we have a real honest to god villain who transforms herself into a hero before our very eyes. I can't think of any other character who's done that. Whose journey back to humanity is the story that we see. It was an amazing twist on the story of hero. But I don't think that little pilot light of goodness inside her, though totally neglected and mostly ignored, ever fully winked out. Xena says to Gabrielle in the Debt about Lao Ma: X: "She had such dreams of peace for her land. And for my soul. I ruined them all. It was years before I understood finally what she wanted from me. Not long before I met you, I was at the end of my rope. I was ready to give up. And then I thought of her and what she taught me, and-- and I was reborn. That's the debt." Then she meets up with Hercules and takes his lessons to heart also. "Is this what it feels like to be you?" And then she runs across Gabrielle, saves her from the slavers and--they're off! And I agree-being with Gabrielle did indeed help Xena to bring these deliberately submerged and deliberately blocked and ignored good feelings back up to the surface, to be felt and embraced again. Xena says in Sin Trades that Gabrielle gave her a light of her own. But I think more it was that having someone so young, innocent and compassionate as Gabrielle in her life just helped Xena's little internal pilot light of goodness spark up into flame again. KT By the end of the series you see a > more compassionate woman - one tries sometimes to find peaceful > solutions to problems and who has to strength to sacrifice herself for > people who may not have been worthy of sacrifice. Heroes don't weigh > the merits of people whom the save-they simply do it. First season > Xena only wanted to save those whom she felt deserved it (remember in > The Path Not Taken she says to the prince she doesn\'t save royalty) > but by season end she waved those whom I think she may had reason to > dislike ( Legacy, FIN2). With! > G! abrielle she became the hero - not because she could prevail in a > fight but because she knew what she was fighting for. Her friendship > with Gabrielle gave her that insight - not because Gabby was so wise > that she taught it to Xena but because the relationship taught Xena > love and tolerance. > > > CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:05:15 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena and her sidekick > > I read a piece of fanfic recently that called Gabrielle Xena's greatest > > student. And y'know what? It's true. Xena was her mentor, her teacher, > > and in the end, Gabrielle took up the reigns like any great student > > would have in those times. Students of Sappho did, and students of > > Socrates did. I mean - what would the world be now if there had never > > been an Aristotle? > > > > Interesting. I now see Xena as Gabrielle's student as well. Whatever we > think of Xena's final act, I do believe she meant it when she said Gabrielle > taught her what she needed to fulfill her quest. > > -- Ife Yes. I think Xena absolutely believed that. Gabrielle believed in her and saw the goodness inside her when no one else, not even her own mommy did. I don't think the value of that to Xena at that time can ever be overestimated. We've seen from Xena's history that she's learned a LOT from other women. The difference between Gabrielle and the others was that there weren't specific skills she wanted Gab to teach her. (Shut up, Liz). With Gabrielle, Xena was more of an observer of her life and the way she interacted with people. I don't think she actively sought out (or probably even ever expected) that she would learn much of anything from the little blond kid. She took her with her because she OWED her. But yes, her loving and caring for Gabrielle, taking those baby steps towards opening up her heart to a new friend at that time in her life, ultimately made her a totally different woman at the end of the series than she'd been at the beginning, after the bad times in her life. Although, Gabrielle is not the only one she ever drops her tough, stoic warrior facade for. We see her loving and close with Flora in The Black Wolf, smiling widely and happily when she greets Helen in Beware of Greeks, and grieving over both Marcus and Petracles when they die. On Marcus' second visit, we see an enormously appealing, happy, excited, flirty and sultry woman with a totally open and loving heart, one not afraid to show someone else how much she cares for them. I LOVE the following exchange over whether or not they should go to sleep: Marcus: Nah, I want to be awake for every moment of life I have left to me. You know, you don't realize the... kinds of things the living take for granted, until you don't have them anymore. Like the evening air. It just settles on you like a cool blanket. And the sky. There's nothing like it on the other side. You know what I missed most? And Lucy bends down to look right in his face with a deliciously flirty and playful little move and says, X: Uhhhhhh-- would that be me? Marcus (laughing): Yes, that would be you. And this was in season one... KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 20:33:20 +1200 From: NZJester Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] ALL things N.Z. --Being Eve At 10:50 pm 13/06/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Just saw this Kiwi show for teenagers >on the cable channel Noggin. Maybe they might show some more Adult Kiwi comedy there some time. There is one on in NZ at the moment featuring two former guest stars of Xena The show is called the strip Main charter is played by the woman who was the Valkyrie xena turned into some sort of Tree monster and her best friend is played by Jodie Rimmer from Xena & Young Herc Don't see it much though as it's on opposite Xena here in NZ There is a old Comedy from the Mid 90's in NZ you might like if you like Being Eve it was called "Melody Rules" Little sister on the Show was played By Jodie Rimmer as well she had black curly hair back in those days - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Catch ya later NZJester - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 20:53:56 -0400 From: "Lee Daley" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] They have no shame! (Beastmaster) A lot of villainess wear skimpy green outfits. LeeD > > Last Sunday saw a few minutes of the Tribune syndicate > show, "Beastmaster." > > There is a villainess, "Callista," > with very short blond hair. > > Okay, she is not as small framed as Hudson. > (But how many are?) > She is dressed in a skimpy green outfit. > And she speaks with an thick OZ accent. > > But still! > It's tough to plead coincidence. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 18:55:10 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena and religion CherylA wrote: > There's an interesting article on MayD's site about religious references in > Xena (http://www.ausxip.com/articles24/university_wire.htm) > > In it the professor gave comparisons from the Christian stories to Xena i.e. a > miraculous birth of a savior (Eve), the use of crucifixion etc. One > comparison that I thought of was of course from FIN where Xena sacrifices > herself to save the souls of the nameless 40,000. Yes. But not only that, in the Catholic mythology (and as most of us know, Tapert was raised Catholic), Christ also had to die for our sins before anybody could get to heaven or achieve a state of everlasting grace. Before Christ died, every good person who died was sent to a place called limbo. Limbo was a place of no suffering but a place also where true joy was denied to the inhabitants. They got to see God (Sr.) when they died and were judged. But they didn't get to go live with God. Because no one had redeemed humankind from original sin yet. Even Saint Joseph, God's stepfather was in limbo. After Christ died many of the folks in limbo got to go on to heaven. Actually, I think ALL of them did. But now, good people who have never been baptized Catholic have to hang out in limbo. Along with Catholic babies who died without receiving the sacrament of Baptism. (Or older Catholics who were never baptised either, though the church gave an escape clause called "Baptism of desire". If you were old enough to be rational AND had lived a good life and been a good person, AND when you died, you thought, "ARRRRGH! I sure wish I'd done what I needed to do go to heaven!" then poof! you were baptized and good to go. I believe the church has now backtracked from limbo, not being able to reconcile it with God's infinite mercy. But when I was a kid (and probably Rob), it was definitely part of the belief system. And actually, being separated from God is what the horror of hell really is--the realization that because of bad deeds or even very serious "sins of omission", one did not deserve to live happily after with one's God. The burning of hell is not literal--it is the mental anquish, regret and agony of knowing that you will forever be separated from your god and never be allowed to live in his presence. For eternity. And so I figure those 40,000 souls were released from Yodoshi right into a Japanese limbo. And that's where they would have stayed, had Xena not died for them and opened the gates to salvation for them. Just like Christ. KT So I thought that this > might give us something to think about. What other attributes of Xena or > Gabrielle have that seem to have a religious connotation? Doesn't have to be > Christian it can draw on from any cultural reference. This isn't meant to > demean any religion but it is interesting how religious themes often are > explored or used in contemporary fiction almost without conscious thought. > > CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 23:13:16 -0500 From: "Daniel T. Miller" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: ALL things N.Z. --Being Eve Silly me, I forgot to say that Amazon Queen / Sheriff Alison Bruce is Eve's Mum and uhhh. . . you know. . . the guy who was the second Hades is Eve's Dad. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #161 **************************************