From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #155 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Sunday, June 9 2002 Volume 02 : Number 155 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: [Flawless] Chakram [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: [Flawless] Chakram [cr ] Re: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [KTL > [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Another imperial Xena [KLOSSNER9@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [KTL ] Re: Deliverer and Legacy (was: Re: [chakram-refugees] <>) [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [mirrordrum >) [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: Deliverer and Legacy (was: Re: [chakram-refugees] <>) [Sojourner >Okay, try this out: Gabs realizes that Xena's memory ain't workin' so > great > >when it comes to weaponry. While Xena's trying on clothes, Gabs tries out > >new weapons for Xena and has the salesperson give her pointers on how to > use > >them. One of the reasons she likes the sais is 'cause she could maybe use > >them herself. (Let's face it -- they're much less lethal and unsubtle than > >the swords and knives Xena's more accustomed to.) They're lightweight, > easy > >to maneuver and good for defensive purposes. Her foresight pays off when, > >sure enough, she's forced to use the new weapons. How's that? > > > >-- Ife > > > Geez! Didn't you see the Simpsons halloween episode? > > A wizard did it! > > (i.e. zapped the gabgirl) Lo and behold - full fledged warrior chick. > LOL! Yep, I saw that. But that had too much make believe. Unlike XWP. Heh. Sorry, I'm stickin' with my shopkeeper-as-instructor story. Back in those days, demonstrating the goods required more skills than simply showing you the on/off switch. Plus, I much prefer imagining Gabs practicing her moves, whilst Xena was parading in front of the mirror. More ... fitting ... with the ep's turnabout theme and Gabs' emerging warrior status, don't ya think? - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 14:51:17 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: [Flawless] Chakram On Saturday 08 June 2002 06:08, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/7/02 3:43:26 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz > writes: > > << > * I think that maybe you know how Xena lost all her fighting skills & > > > memories in that episode that maybe some of Xena's fighting skills went > > into Gab & thats how she learnt all this stuff so quickly??? > > What do you fans out there think? > > Dave > > That is one possible explanation. OTOH, when Xena got it all back in > that glorious fight at the end of the ep, presumably Gabs should then have > lost it > again. Or maybe, having learnt it, you get to keep it. > > I don't think there's been any better theory advanced so I guess that'll > have > to do. >> > > Okay, try this out: Gabs realizes that Xena's memory ain't workin' so > great when it comes to weaponry. While Xena's trying on clothes, Gabs > tries out new weapons for Xena and has the salesperson give her pointers on > how to use them. One of the reasons she likes the sais is 'cause she could > maybe use them herself. (Let's face it -- they're much less lethal and > unsubtle than the swords and knives Xena's more accustomed to.) They're > lightweight, easy to maneuver and good for defensive purposes. Her > foresight pays off when, sure enough, she's forced to use the new weapons. > How's that? > > -- Ife Hmmmm. It doesn't actually conflict with anything we've seen. BUT I've seen posts that say it's quite hard to use sais effectively and takes a lot of practice. (And if Gabs has been practicing in between eps, she must have done it in secret because Amarice was certainly surprised to see her fighting with them.) So it's a possible explanation but still a bit contrived, I think. And then there's her skill at throwing one in Succession.... which surprised Ares and Gab herself, IIRC. And of course Ares' consideration of Gabs as his new - umm, lieutenant. All of which suggests that Gabs has discovered a hidden talent for fighting. I don't think TPTB ever tried to explain it. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 08:40:33 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> > Yes I think Gabrielle is beginning to see Xena as a more fallible individual. Certainly Gabrielle has more doubts about Xena's choices - this leads her to Kraftstar and certainly to her betrayal in Chin. Xena indeed fears that Gabrielle can't love the "real" Xena and that leads her to two diasterous decisions - her emotional withdrawal in Britania and leaving Gabrielle behind when she goes to Chin, > > > CherylA I can't see where Xena "made a decision" to emotionally withdraw in Britannia. Her decision was to "go get Caesar". Her focus on getting Caesar was not something she sat down and calmly thought about and then selected as one of any number of actions of how to spend her day. When Krafstar dangles the Ju-Ju fruit in front of her, she just can't resist. Some things just push her buttons. Is this the first time she's narrowed in and focused solely on a goal that might not be totally altruistic but might be fueled by personal vengeance? And that makes her revert to being the stiff upper lip warlord who solves problems using her vicious attitude and amazing warrior skills? And who doesn't even seem to remember that she now has a little blond kid in her life, never mind actually taking the little blond kid's "feelings" into account enough to make her modify her plans? Nope. While it's not "usual", we have seen this behavior from her before. In The Price where she becomes a commander who wants to take no prisoners but just kill them all. And in "A Necessary Evil" when she brings Callisto up out of her cavern to help her take out Velasca. And each time it worked and she achieved her goal. We can discuss all we want to about who was the real hero of the Price, X or G, but if Xena hadn't bested their commander that day by beating the snot out of him, the good guys would all be dead now and it would be a moot point. And if she hadn't let Callisto out, Velasca MIGHT still be a problem. Though of course, if they hadn't followed that story line, they just would have written Xena beating her some other way. And Xena's decision to go to Chin was not the disasterous one. She had a job to do there and she did it. The disasterous decision was the one Gabrielle made to follow her. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 08:41:51 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> > You know, I hadn't quite seen that withdrawal part. (Indeed, I had to read > your comment a few times before my initial frown went away.) I'd focused > more on Xena's singlemindedness on her missions, underestimating the vacuum > that left in terms of Gabrielle's feelings or understanding. I used to think > some folks were being a little too hard on Xena, in terms of blaming her for > what happened with Gabrielle in Britania and Chin. I finally "get" it now. > I seem to suffer from the same insensitivities as Xena, so thanks for the > heads-up. > > -- Ife But thank the gods you ain't got them same warrior skills... KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 13:03:13 EDT From: KLOSSNER9@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Another imperial Xena /In today's paper I just happened to scan the review of a local theatre /production of "Romulus", a "very sharp pseudo-historical piece by Gore /Vidal based on Friedrich Deurrenmatt's satirical play about the last days /of the western half of the Roman empire, [which] follows the title /character, the last emperor of Rome, as he readies for the fall." /Among the character accolades is, "Shannon Grounds makes a delightful Xena, /empress of Byzantium, with her regal poses and haughty looks." /It seems strange we've never heard of \this/ seemingly historical Xena on /the lists... I wonder if she IS historical, or just fictional. //// The last Emperor of the Western Roman Empire (475-476 A.D.) was Romulus Augustus, who was optimistically named after both the legendary founder of Rome (Romulus) and the founder of the Empire (Augustus). At the same time, the Emperor of the Eastern (Byzantine) Empire was Zeno (474-491). That's Emperor, not Empress; "Z" not "X" and "o" not "a". Now we need to find out when Vidal wrote his play "Romulus" to decide whether the name was a coincidence or whether Vidal used "Xena" as a joke, based on the TV show. That doesn't mean that Vidal ever watched the show. He may have just used Xena as a pop culture figure. Or perhaps Vidal wrote the play before the show, and the people putting it on now changed the name. I believe that "Xena" was never an actual common name. Boeotian ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 09:28:11 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> Ahhhhh, it's SO nice to be caught up on my work and be able to play on the lists again... Snipped mercilessly, since you've all been here before. But I see my name below and just can't resist... > even remarked on that, iirc, in the "last dance" video, giving ren full > props for playing the character who always screws up. words to that effect. I believe she says something more along the lines of how it would be terribly boring, uninteresting and constricting for an actor to always play a character who never changes but is always only used for the main character to play off of. And that they developed Gabrielle's character because they wanted the best show they could get and keeping people fulfilled and happy leads to good work. Something like that. And of course that's very true. It's one of the best things about XWP--that the main ancillary characters also developed so much. Gabrielle, Ares, and Callisto all went through major character developments, that transformed them and left them totally different from the way they were in the beginning of the series. Aphrodite didn't change as much but she wasn't in XWP near so much as Ares and Callisto was. And I think also that she probably didn't change so much because she was already "Good". And XWP did it's best work at reforming bad kids, like Xena, Ares and Callisto. Eve of course, was also reformed, but her story wasn't done nearly so satisfactorily as the others were. > yes, kt, i realize that xena is not infallible but she does have the famous > spidey sense. we never expect gabrielle to listen. But Gabrielle does listen a lot. She listens far more than not. Most days she's just tagging along with Xena, doing her bit for the greater good, toting water on battlefields, reinforcing the men on the front lines, commanding the troops while Xena's off lazing nude on a couch with Ares, leading amazons to certain death on a beach, having pajama parties with Aphrodite, doing fruit inspections for "Cleopatra" and her roman guests, etc. etc. etc. but we, and xena, always > expect the warrior princess to know what's best for everyone concerned. if > this weren't so, then why, for example, blame gabrielle for solan's death? Because that time she didn't listen. ;-> She listens for the small things. When they needed a hook for a dramatic ep, THEN, she didn't listen on the big important ones. Because she mattered so much to Xena, her actions and the situations she was involved in had a huge impact on Xena. We know how loyal Xena is to the people she loves. And how she will do any task they ask of her. Like going to Chin. Like going to Japa. Like going after Gurkhan. We know that Xena loves Gabrielle deeply and profoundly. How more wrenching could it be for Xena than to have it be Gabrielle whom Dahok deliberately chooses to carry his child, the child whose mission is to destroy Xena, because, "As Xena goes, so goes the world"? And to have it be Gabrielle who helps Hope to find Solon in order to kill him? Gabrielle's actions have a huge effect upon Xena. And therefore upon all of us. Just 'cause they write it that way. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 09:56:47 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: Deliverer and Legacy (was: Re: [chakram-refugees] <>) On Sat, 13 Apr 2002, md wrote and cr replied: > > shows some of that good spidey sense. now it's also made more complicated > > of course by xena's history w/ the one god of the israelites. xena gets > > fooled just like the rest of us. you've got to admit that it's rare. > > Do I? (Tries to work out if md's contention is correct) > > OK, I guess it probably is. You're right. (Stop nudging me like that, KT, > I tell you she's got a point there much as I hate to admit it). Oh get off it! md's right about as often as Gabrielle is. (KT gives blindingly cute grin) Actually, I'm not sure that the one god of the Isrelites figured into Xena's equations at all. She never mentions him and I don't get the feeling she listened to what Krafstar was saying much beyond the moment he said the magic word, "Caesar". I don't think that Xena even thought about who Krafstar's god might be. It didn't interest her at the moment, 'cause she was after Caesar. I don't think she said to herself, "It's okay, it's just that god with the loud talking machine voice." And I think yes, Xena was "off" in this ep. Exactly because Caesar is most definitely her weakness and we've seen her beam into laser like focus on him and only him whenever he's around. But also because this ep is the beginning of the rift arc where high drama and angst were the order of the day. (Even if it meant twisting and tweaking the established character traits of our grrls some.) KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 13:16:46 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] CON 2002 Day 3, Part 2 KT wrote and Jackie replied: > > > >The very first con I ever went to was the second Burbank one. > > --KT, I was _there_! And in fact, I was talking to Steve and his friend > while all this was going on! ;) Hooo-hoooo! ALRIGHT! ALL the off continent states were represented then. I bet not ALL the in continent ones were. > > >And later I happened to look over towards Steve (which is > >astounding as I think about it, since Lucy was on stage ) and he > >was just standing there, just focused on Lucy with this smiling, dreamily > >absorbed, fondly besotted look on his face. > > --I, too, had the same experience you had with Steve; very down-to-earth, > very approachable. ;) That day, he did hold LL in quite *high esteem*, > somewhat like a goddess. ;) LOL! I loved how he looked at her. Seriously, because it meant to me that she was good to work with. That she wasn't all over herself because she was the star of the show and because she had thousands of people (like us) slavering over her. I've heard that writers are not very well respected in the entertainment business, though I hear that TV is somewhat better than movies in that regard. And so for a writer to esteem the star indicated to me that she was indeed just another joe. But one of them joes that happens to be gorgeous, talented, witty and smart. > > When I asked Steve for his picture, he said *amazedly*, "You want _my_ > picture, while Lucy's up there?!?" I said, "I probably won't be able to > even ask her anything and she's so far away. At least I can get a good > picture of you." Or sumpin' like that. ;) And yes, his picture came out > *perfectly*. ;) > > kewl! > > *Meeeemmmmories*....;=) (and this is *scary*, because it's now becoming > *collective* meeemmmories........ ;) ) > > > --Jackie That's all the show is now (seeing as it's on the Invisible Oxygen Network), collective memories in us all. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2002 18:05:05 -0400 From: mirrordrum Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> delurking just to comment on one thing: KTL wrote in response to my saying that lucy: > > even remarked on that, iirc, in the "last dance" video, giving ren full > > props for playing the character who always screws up. words to that effect. >I believe she says something more along the lines of how it would be >terribly boring, uninteresting and constricting for an actor to always >play a character who never changes but is always only used for the >main character to play off of. um, well, it actually went (in part) like this: R: "you always need someone who causes all the problems and can be the foil. . .so. . .i had a good time doing that" LL: "that's hard though. i would find that very frustrating: that your character always has to be the one that caaauuuuses the problem. and as the show went on and as we all got a little better at expressing what was right for our character and as we all got a little better at listening to the others about what was right for their characters and for the show, um, then it was our purpose to make sure that everybody's needs were getting met because that would and i never felt that there was a point at which anybody's ego was dominating at the expense of the show." this was in the context of discussion about the sidekick role. > And that they developed Gabrielle's >character because they wanted the best show they could get and keeping >people fulfilled and happy leads to good work. Something like that. yes that might be the last part of the above. it then segued into something else i don't remember what. > > yes, kt, i realize that xena is not infallible but she does have the famous > > spidey sense. we never expect gabrielle to listen. > > >But Gabrielle does listen a lot. She listens far more than not. Most >days she's just tagging along with Xena, doing her bit for the greater >good, toting water on battlefields, reinforcing the men on the front >lines, commanding the troops while Xena's off lazing nude on a couch with >Ares, leading amazons to certain death on a beach, having pajama parties >with Aphrodite, doing fruit inspections for "Cleopatra" and her roman >guests, etc. etc. etc. i'm not sure where the "listening" comes in in some of these but that's alright. she does, occasionally, do as she's told. just, as you note below, not when it really matters. except at the end there when she did as she was told and didn't dump the ashes. of all the times to follow directions, bless her heart. > but we, and xena, always > > expect the warrior princess to know what's best for everyone concerned. if > > this weren't so, then why, for example, blame gabrielle for solan's death? > >Because that time she didn't listen. ;-> well, and because xena knew with her ever-acute sense that hope was a bad evil from the git go and it didn't matter if she *was* gab's child. the audience is trained to believe, and even gab tells people constantly, that xena knows best. for the most part. she does get a little muddled sometimes when her guilt creeps in. >She listens for the small things. When they needed a hook for a dramatic >ep, THEN, she didn't listen on the big important ones. i like that point. that's a good point. you do make one. . .every once in a greeeaaaaat while. tho i hate to admit it. >Gabrielle's actions have a huge effect upon Xena. And therefore upon all >of us. Just 'cause they write it that way. ayup. md--sloping reluctantly off to lurkdom again ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 11:55:07 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: Deliverer and Legacy (was: Re: [chakram-refugees] <>) On Sunday 09 June 2002 05:56, KTL wrote: > On Sat, 13 Apr 2002, md wrote and cr replied: > > > shows some of that good spidey sense. now it's also made more > > > complicated of course by xena's history w/ the one god of the > > > israelites. xena gets fooled just like the rest of us. you've got to > > > admit that it's rare. > > > > Do I? (Tries to work out if md's contention is correct) > > > > OK, I guess it probably is. You're right. (Stop nudging me like that, > > KT, I tell you she's got a point there much as I hate to admit it). > > Oh get off it! md's right about as often as Gabrielle is. (KT gives > blindingly cute grin) No KT, the description isn't 'blindingly cute', it's 'irritatingly blonde' ;-) I still say md's right there - it IS rare that Xena gets fooled. > Actually, I'm not sure that the one god of the Isrelites figured into > Xena's equations at all. She never mentions him Well, not till after the event, anyway. :) > and I don't get the > feeling she listened to what Krafstar was saying much beyond the moment he > said the magic word, "Caesar". with the word "Caesar" written on a little piece of cardboard.> > > I don't think that Xena even thought about who Krafstar's god might be. > It didn't interest her at the moment, 'cause she was after Caesar. I don't > think she said to herself, "It's okay, it's just that god with the loud > talking machine voice." Ummm, no, you're right, she didn't. She just had K down as some harmless religious nutter with a bunch of happy flower children, probably about as safe company for Gabs to be in as anywhere on the same continent as C,JC. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 12:08:57 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] CON 2002 Day 3, Part 2 On Sunday 09 June 2002 09:16, KTL wrote: > KT wrote and Jackie replied: > > >The very first con I ever went to was the second Burbank one. > > > > --KT, I was _there_! And in fact, I was talking to Steve and his friend > > while all this was going on! ;) > > Hooo-hoooo! ALRIGHT! ALL the off continent states were represented then. > I bet not ALL the in continent ones were. You including Alaska in that first category? Just curious. (snip) > > > *Meeeemmmmories*....;=) (and this is *scary*, because it's now becoming > > *collective* meeemmmories........ ;) ) > > > > > > --Jackie > > That's all the show is now (seeing as it's on the Invisible Oxygen > Network), collective memories in us all. > > KT And videotape! Don't forget videotape! It's just as good as TV. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 12:08:05 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> lferae wrote: > You know, I hadn't quite seen that withdrawal part. (Indeed, I had to > read your comment a few times before my initial frown went away.) I'd > focused more on Xena's singlemindedness on her missions, underestimating > the vacuum that left in terms of Gabrielle's feelings or understanding. > I used to think some folks were being a little too hard on Xena, in terms > of blaming her for what happened with Gabrielle in Britania and Chin. I > finally "get" it now. I seem to suffer from the same insensitivities as > Xena, so thanks for the heads-up. > > -- Ife I think that's a chimera created by the 'blame-it-all-on-Xena' brigade. :) It's not a matter of insensitivity at all, IMO. Your initial idea was correct. Xena was going up against the most dangerous and powerful enemy in the world. Her only concerns should have been (a) how to beat Caesar and (b) how to minimise losses to her side (i.e., on this occasion, Boadicea's troops). She should not have wasted one second of time nursemaiding non-combatants who were capable of keeping themselves out of the way. Any commander who does that is a danger to their own side and should not be in command. As for Gabrielle, she chose to follow Xena. If shit happens, she chose to put herself in that position, Xena didn't kidnap her. She should know perfectly well to keep out of the way at critical times and not distract the commander with demands for attention. Plenty of time for that afterwards, if they're still alive. Caesar wasn't going to put his plans on hold so Xena could spend some sensitive quality time with Gabs. ;) As it is, I can't blame Gabby for what happened with Dahak either. She was in fact doing the sensible thing on this occasion, and exactly what she should have done - keeping herself well out of the way of Caesar with Khrafstar and his little gang of flower children. It's just ironical that it turned out to be such a bad idea. I can't even blame Gabs' well-known tendency to be fooled by every smooth-talking villain who comes along, since Khrafstar was unusually good - fooled Xena too, and almost all the viewers I think, including me and I'm just naturally suspicious of pseudo-Christian 'good guys'. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 00:02:14 +0100 From: Sojourner Subject: Re: Deliverer and Legacy (was: Re: [chakram-refugees] <>) At 09:56 08/06/2002 -0800, KTL wrote: >On Sat, 13 Apr 2002, md wrote and cr replied: > > > > shows some of that good spidey sense. now it's also made more complicated > > > of course by xena's history w/ the one god of the israelites. xena gets > > > fooled just like the rest of us. you've got to admit that it's rare. > > > > Do I? (Tries to work out if md's contention is correct) > > > > OK, I guess it probably is. You're right. (Stop nudging me like > that, KT, > > I tell you she's got a point there much as I hate to admit it). > > >Oh get off it! md's right about as often as Gabrielle is. (KT gives >blindingly cute grin) YAXI!! KT doesn't have a blindingly cute grin. That's: a) Gabrielle b) Xena c) Ares d) Callisto e) Aphrodite f) all of the above except KT Sojourner ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #155 **************************************