From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #144 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Thursday, May 30 2002 Volume 02 : Number 144 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #142 [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #142 [cr > ["Cheryl Ande" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 21:39:47 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Wednesday 29 May 2002 15:59, mirrordrum wrote: > At 05:35 PM 5/26/2002 -0400, Cheryl Ande wrote: > >@ > >@ > >@ > >@ > >@@ > >@ > >@ > > (snip) > > For Gabrielle it is one more nail in the coffin of her innocence. > > it seems to me retrospectively that, like xena's "dark side," the concept > of gabrielle's "innocence" became both misused and simultaneously overly > reified or concretized during the first 3 seasons. this was probably > necessary to maintain a tension between the characters of x & g. however, > imo it not only became a thing in itself but the "thing", the concept, > lacked a real coherence or consistency of meaning or reference. it started > out as blood innocence but then it became representative of all the things > she did that were foolish, downright stupid, caring, naive, compassionate, > well-intentioned and so forth. (snip) > gabrielle does remain naive in some respects. she continues to trust people > in a way that would be good irl but in the company of xena and her world of > misfits, rogues, loonies and ne'er-do-wells, is frequently disastrous and, > imo, a bit hard to swallow. I think it stretched credibility a little. I've already raved on about 'how would Xena tolerate someone like Gabs?' so I won't reiterate it, but associated with that is the question 'how could a warrior princess like Xena afford to risk having Gabs in tow?' Or, on the other side, 'how could an innocent like Gabs stand to be around all the rough stuff that Xena gets into?' The answer, maybe, is that in reality Gabs would have had to start acquiring a bit of worldly wisdom (read: cynicism :) and therefore the 'innocence' thing was, as you (more or less) said, an imaginary concept. > i thought that raised some good questions through both xena's and > gabrielle's conflicts and then waffled at the very last minute on the > resolution. i suppose on some level, the real question is whether one's > moral scruples, whatever they're based on, are worth as much as the lives > that might be saved if one abandoned them. gabrielle decides that they're > not in this case (i.e. this episode). she takes on the role of judge and > jury and altho xena pushes her to do it, gabrielle has to take the ultimate > responsibility for crassus' death. and she does. whether or not i agree > with her decision, i say good for her for *making* the decision. This non-Gabfan agrees with you on that ;-) > > > She has > >become a willing accessory in murder. > > she's certainly complicit but she's been complicit in every undertaking of > xena's to which she's party that results in loss of life. that's why the > flour power thing and the whole urging on of the amazons from the barricade > scene in was so irritating to me. horse feathers. It got you that way too, did it? Yep, that's the most unsettling thing in the episode, for me. If they could have shown that she was putting on a front for the general good, in opposition to her own beliefs, it would've been OK, maybe even good. But that didn't come across, instead Gabs just looked like a hypocrite (sorry Gabfans!) urging the Amazons on to fight from a safe position behind the lines. > > >Although Xena latter tries to take the blame for Gabrielle's, Gabrielle > > will have none of it. (snip) > in sum, i liked the ep, i liked the dilemma, i didn't like xena's "it's my > fault i should have protected you" spiel at the end. nope. Hmm, I hardly noticed that.... sometimes my automatic subtext-blanking circuits have their uses ;) Had I noticed it prominently, I woulda thought it a bit of a sell-out too. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 21:23:11 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #142 On Wednesday 29 May 2002 14:14, Cheryl Ande wrote: Oooh nice post. May I quibble? > > Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 20:20:50 -0500 > > From: Lilli Sprintz > > " When I saw her taking action later in Seasons 2 and then 3, I cheered. > But "no death penalty" is in my bones, and I fear I am in conflict. I > wasn't really sure it was Gabrielle's, or anyone's place, in that place, to > choose for Crassus to die. Goodness...did I just say that? " > > I think we often think that every decision Xena makes must be viewed as the > right decision. So when she makes one that we, as fans, disagree with we > must somehow make it fit into our moral code. Well perhaps to you Xena did > make the wrong decision and Gabrielle was wrong to follow through with it. > It is a perfectly valid point of view. If Xena could have thought of a way > to rescue Vercinix without rubbing Caesar's face in it then certainly Xena > may have avoided her later problems with Caesar (such as her and > Gabrielle's crucifixion). I doubt that. Xena and Caesar were just naturally going to end up on opposite sides. It was in their nature. A Good Day, Endgame.... Xena would've ended up on Caesar's hit list sooner or later. > But the point is really moot. Crassus was for all intents and purposes a > dead man when Xena rescued him from the Parthians (they in fact did killed > him). Xena actually gave him a fighting chance to survive. If Caesar had > traded Vercinix for Crassus her would have lived. If Caesar or Pompey > would have stopped the execution Crassus would have survived and in all > probabilty Xena and Vercinix would have been recaptured. So in reality > Crassus's fate was sealed by the pride and ambition of his allies and less > by his enemies. > > CherylA Well, if you call Caesar and Pompey 'alies' not 'enemies'. But that's splitting hairs. IMO, that doesn't let Xena and Gabby off the hook.... Xena still set it up and Gabby still let it go ahead. But, considering the kind of man Crassus was (in the episode), I don't think his execution counts as one of Xena / Gabs' major crimes. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 21:46:20 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Amazon funeral song On Wednesday 29 May 2002 08:26, mirrordrum wrote: > At 11:07 PM 5/28/2002 +1200, cr wrote: > >Trivia question - how many times in XWP have we heard that haunting Amazon > >funeral song? It's at Marga's funeral at the end of Dangerous Prey, and > > IIRC it's at Ephiny's funeral at the end of Endgame. Any others? > > i got just a tad tired of it. others who got it were marcus in season 1, > perdicorpse in 2, joxer in i believe & eli got it in . Drat! I don't think you're right, you know. This is going to take me ten minutes [reaching for videotapes...] First problem - which ep did Marcus die in? Not Mortal Beloved, I think, it was an ep before that... Path not Taken? Yep. OK..... Marcus - nope. Perdycorpse - nope. Umm, you're thinking of the funeral song usually sung by Lucy. The Amazon funeral song is quite different. (Starts dancing round computer - "I caught md out! I caught md.. [clunk!! boing!! thud!] Makes mental note to remember the computer sits up against the wall.... ) > >And, is it reserved for Amazon Queens? > > you mean like eli and marcus? eli, amazon queen of the desert. sort of like > priscilla? heh. the things they never told us about eli. ROTFL! Pity it's based on the wrong premise. > > In which there seems to be an > >incredibly high mortality rate, btw... I'm trying to recall... > > > >Terreis (not a queen but next in succession) > >Melosa > >Velasca (pretender to the title, but dead anyway or at least entombed) > >Ephiny > >Chilapa? - we never heard what happened to her, but she wasn't there by > > the time of Coming Home > >Marga > > and gwyn-tier who got it at helicon. xena probably dirged for all the > fallen after they all regained what was left of their scattered senses. Hmm, but Gwyn-tier, like Solari, I didn't list 'cos they're not royalty. Snobbish, that's me ;) > >Varia - not dead but demoted/deposed by Gabby > > yeah but she got a battlefield re-promotion and was still standing when > they left. You mean, anyone still standing moves up a rank? ;) > >I rather think Gabby should abdicate..... > > helicon's ablazin'. she shoulda abdicated *before* so many of them got > killed. i may be a gabfan but i know a not so much amazon queen when i see > one. these honorary degrees are all very well once in a way but not if > you're expected to be able to do something with them. ROTFL!!! Not that I don't agree with you, but I wasn't thinking so much about Gabby's qualities of generalship, as her own life expectancy. :) > that's the trouble > with that "right of cast" (or caste or whatever it is) thing. so whimsical. > and i may say that my estimation of terreis, who i suppose would've > succeeded to queenship when something happened to melosa, dropped rather > swiftly when she gave gab her RoC. "that's the sort of thing only an amazon > would do for another amazon." piffle! at least gab had the good sense to > want to pas hers on to ephiny. excellent choice, imo. Yes, have to agree with that. Though Eph did go and marry an outsider (well, I guess anyone capable of helping produce more Amazons would hafta be an outsider, if you see what I mean, but still...) (If the offspring is female, of course.... if male, they'd be centaurs) > ramble. Ramble ramble..... > > md cr :) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 21:15:13 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #142 On Wednesday 29 May 2002 13:55, Cheryl Ande wrote: > > Now for practical purposes - you know there are plenty of fans who actually > do see Xena and Gabrielle as just friends. There are also male fans who > may have a few fanatasies about the warrior princess themselves. Episodes > like King Con are for those fans - it gives male viewers some one to > identify with and for female viewers who aren't into subtext a light > romantic episode. It allows all factions of the Xena views an episode they > can identify with. > > CherylA THANK you cheryl! :) Actually, I liked Rafe probably the best of Xena's 'current' male companions (other than the eternal Ares ;) Uselysses had noooo charisma and Anthony - - well, maybe his Aussie accent was a bit distracting. (I did like some of her past ones like Borias and Petracles). Umm, and Cecrops wasn't really a companion, but he had most charisma of the lot. Except, again, for Ares. Excuse me, I'm rambling. But in practical terms, I didn't really need any males to 'identify' with, I could drool over the WP all by myself. I guess what King Con did for us, though, was suggest that she might be .... available. :) Now c'mon all you female Xenafans, admit it - I'm sure you'd like to imagine Xena might spare you a glance instead of sticking faithfully and boringly monogamously to the little blonde kid, wouldn't you? ;-) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 04:36:07 EDT From: Sekhmet209@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #142 Cheryl Ande wrote: > >...there are ... fans who may have a few fanatasies This is a really great typo... - --Sekhmet (a fanatic with fanatasies ) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 04:38:29 EDT From: Sekhmet209@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #142 In a message dated 5/29/02 4:27:50 AM, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: >Now c'mon all you female Xenafans, admit it - I'm sure you'd like to imagine >Xena might spare you a glance instead of sticking faithfully and boringly >monogamously to the little blonde kid, wouldn't you? ;-) Of course. Especially since the little blonde kid doesn't deserve her. - --Sekhmet (running for cover) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 23:12:29 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #142 On Wednesday 29 May 2002 20:38, Sekhmet209@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/29/02 4:27:50 AM, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > >Now c'mon all you female Xenafans, admit it - I'm sure you'd like to > > imagine Xena might spare you a glance instead of sticking faithfully and > > boringly monogamously to the little blonde kid, wouldn't you? ;-) > > Of course. Especially since the little blonde kid doesn't deserve her. > > > --Sekhmet (running for cover) You can share my foxhole cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 22:09:20 +1200 (NZST) From: sojourner@paradise.net.nz Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #142 Quoting cr : > On Wednesday 29 May 2002 20:38, Sekhmet209@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 5/29/02 4:27:50 AM, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > >Now c'mon all you female Xenafans, admit it - I'm sure you'd like > to > > > imagine Xena might spare you a glance instead of sticking faithfully > and > > > boringly monogamously to the little blonde kid, wouldn't you? ;-) > > > > Of course. Especially since the little blonde kid doesn't deserve her. > > > > > > > --Sekhmet (running for cover) > > You can share my foxhole > > cr It's like the saying "there are no atheists in fox-holes". There are no Gab-fans in foxholes. When in a fox-hole and having the crap bombed out of you, we would all want XENA - riding across the battle-ground, flinging that chakram and waving that big ol' sword around - to be the one who saves us. Amen sisters and brothers! Sojourner ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 00:10:28 -1000 (HST) From: "Jackie M. Young" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Amazon funeral song On Tue, 28 May 2002 23:07:19 +1200, cr wrote: >Trivia question - how many times in XWP have we heard that haunting >Amazon funeral song? > >And, is it reserved for Amazon Queens? - --I agree with md--Joxer ain't no Amazon Queen. ;P So, apparently, _any_one can get LL's burial song. ;P - --Jackie ****************************************************** * Proud to have the same birthday as Lucy Lawless! * * * * JACKIE YOUNG, JYOUNG@LAVA.NET * * * ****************************************************** ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 00:15:15 -1000 (HST) From: "Jackie M. Young" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] favorite sayings? On Tuesday 28 May 2002 13:32, Lilli Sprintz wrote: > Hey, this makes me feel like getting in a little thing about saying our > favorite lines from Xena. - --*Nah, nah*--you guys are missing out on all the *fun*. ;P <> (after Velasca has beat the *crap* out of Auto and is leaving): Auto (complaining as only BC can do): Hey, I paid for an hour! ;=) - --Jackie (who's not against a little S&M now and then ;) ) ****************************************************** * Proud to have the same birthday as Lucy Lawless! * * * * JACKIE YOUNG, JYOUNG@LAVA.NET * * * ****************************************************** ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 11:04:31 -0400 From: mirrordrum Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Amazon funeral song >Drat! I don't think you're right, you know. This is going to take me ten >minutes [reaching for videotapes...] >Umm, you're thinking of the funeral song usually sung by Lucy. The Amazon >funeral song is quite different. > >(Starts dancing round computer - "I caught md out! I caught md.. [clunk!! >boing!! thud!] Makes mental note to remember the computer sits up >against the wall.... ) oh you absolutely did catch me out. waaaay out. i immediately went to the famous dirge that lucy sings and wandered off on trails of irrelevance. you're quite right. which would make me absolutely WRONG! you get the duck. >And, is it reserved for Amazon Queens? drat. now i have to start all over again. bugger. > > > > you mean like eli and marcus? eli, amazon queen of the desert. sort of like > > priscilla? heh. the things they never told us about eli. > >ROTFL! Pity it's based on the wrong premise. > > > > > In which there seems to be an > > >incredibly high mortality rate, btw... I'm trying to recall... > > > > > >Terreis (not a queen but next in succession) > > >Melosa > > >Velasca (pretender to the title, but dead anyway or at least entombed) > > >Ephiny > > >Chilapa? - we never heard what happened to her, but she wasn't there by > > > the time of Coming Home > > >Marga > > > > and gwyn-tier who got it at helicon. xena probably dirged for all the > > fallen after they all regained what was left of their scattered senses. > >Hmm, but Gwyn-tier, like Solari, I didn't list 'cos they're not royalty. >Snobbish, that's me ;) i thought gwyn-tier was a northern queen. not? i'll have to go check it out. i too was tempted to list solari who was, clearly, ephiny's right hand woman but not, one suspects, of the royal "line." she was perhaps a peer of the realm? OAN? (order of the amazon nation?) > > >Varia - not dead but demoted/deposed by Gabby > > > > yeah but she got a battlefield re-promotion and was still standing when > > they left. > >You mean, anyone still standing moves up a rank? ;) no, i mean gabby who for some mysterious reason gets to make these decisions repromoted (i'm sure there's a technical word for that) her with a significant handclasp and a "to a strong amazon nation" salute. and xena after all had great faith in her, that ought to count with you, dude. *and* she was still standing altho given time, they'd have killed her off too i ffeel sure. > > >I rather think Gabby should abdicate..... > > > > helicon's ablazin'. she shoulda abdicated *before* so many of them got > > killed. i may be a gabfan but i know a not so much amazon queen when i see > > one. these honorary degrees are all very well once in a way but not if > > you're expected to be able to do something with them. > >ROTFL!!! > >Not that I don't agree with you, but I wasn't thinking so much about Gabby's >qualities of generalship, as her own life expectancy. :) i know, i know. i'm just saying life expectancy be damned, she had no bizniss queening in the first place. although it was sort of fun at first--senseless but fun (for a gabfan). > at least gab had the good sense to > > want to pas hers on to ephiny. excellent choice, imo. > >Yes, have to agree with that. Though Eph did go and marry an outsider >(well, I guess anyone capable of helping produce more Amazons would hafta be >an outsider, if you see what I mean, but still...) and you would have had her marry. . .whom? are you one of those people who're centaurphobic? >(If the offspring is female, of course.... if male, they'd be centaurs) ws that finally established somewhere? i forget. i remember doing a lot of searching about centaurs and things but i don't recall the upshot. it fell through a hole in my brain. > > ramble. > >Ramble ramble..... grin > > > > md > >cr :) md ;-> ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 19:39:25 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> From: "mirrordrum" " it seems to me retrospectively that, like xena's "dark side," the concept of gabrielle's "innocence" became both misused and simultaneously overly reified or concretized during the first 3 seasons.... then it became representative of all the things she did that were foolish, downright stupid, caring, naive, compassionate, well-intentioned and so forth." I think Gabrielle's "innocence" might have become a real problem for the series if the character continued as she was developed at the end of season 2. Gabrielle if continued as the wise child her character would have become a kind of paradoy - the saintly soul who leads the dark warrior from evil and can read the hearts of men in but a single glance. Indeed as the season 2 ended Xena and the viewers have placed her on very high pedestal - Gabrielle's wisdom could lead the Horde to peace, Gabrielle has never given into hate, Gabrielle fights but never kills. Where does go with such a character. Where we went was to knock of the stuffing out of that image. Gabrielle in season 3 faces the consequences of being the innocencent. She can't read the hearts of men - she is fooled by Kraftstar and her misplaced faith in Hope gets Solon killed. She does give into hate and jealously - Bitter Suite and Forget Me Not. She does kill. She learns a very painful lesson - innocence can be a trap. If your idealism is not tempered by a healthy cynicism you can be taken advatage of and if you believe too strongly in your own wisdom it can lead to disaster. So yes I agree with you assesment that Gabrielle didn't so much lose innocence as that she was beginning to learn that in the world she has chosen to live in a healthy does of pragmatism is necessary. As for Xena there was also a profound change in season 3. By the end the season 2 I think Xena was becoming a little declawed. Yes we had The Price but as the season ended with lighter episode it was almost as if had warrior who was at heart just a gentle good-natured soul who just needed the guidence of her almost perfect friend to showher the way. Season 3 got rid of that image fast. the dark soul of Xena is unleashed - she can commit cold blooded murder (The Debt 2 and Sacrafice2), in a pschotic rage she can kill her best friend, and without a second though she contrive the murder of another. Xena also learns that her perfect little friend is not perfect. Gabrielle does not have the wisdom or the perfect goodness that Xena ascribed to her. She watches her friend struggle with moral questions and she watches as Gabrielle make hard choices - some good and some bad. What Xena learns is that she doesn't care that Gabrielle isn't perfect - I'm sure Xena is surprised at this. As Xena watches Gabrielle struggle with good and evil she must come to realize that her own struggle comes not from the fact that she is inherently flawed but that the choices are by their nature difficult. Gabrielle in season 3 could have become a very dark person - her self image is shattered - she kills, betrays, deceives- but yet she perceivers. She stays a good person - she doesn't let her failings and weaknesses destroy her. Xena now has friend that she can admire not because she is sinless but because she doesn't let her sins rule her. Xena now knows that darkness is in all people - if Gabrielle can come throuh the darkness so can Xena. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 19:47:40 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #142 cr wrote: " I doubt that. Xena and Caesar were just naturally going to end up on opposite sides. It was in their nature. A Good Day, Endgame.... Xena would've ended up on Caesar's hit list sooner or later." Yeah you're probably right. Caesar and Xena were bound to keep bumping into each other and they were never going to be buddies again. > > But the point is really moot. Crassus was for all intents and purposes a dead man when Xena rescued him from the Parthians .... > > Well, if you call Caesar and Pompey 'alies' not 'enemies'. But that's splitting hairs. IMO, that doesn't let Xena and Gabby off the hook.... No of course it doesn't. That point I was trying to get across that shedding tears for Crassus's death is pointless. The guy was destine to be dead meat. With Caesar and Pompey as your partners I wouldn't be selling the guy any life insurance. Having said this it doesn't excuse X & G's role in hurrying the process along., Cheryl ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 21:46:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Sarah Anne Packard Subject: [chakram-refugees] "Dark Angel"? Hey, folks...for a while I've been hearing rumors that "Dark Angel" (one of my faves, a chicks-kicking-ass show spawned no doubt by Xena and Buffy) was in danger of not being renewed for a 3rd season, and today I saw some scrolling thing on VH1 or MTV or something saying that it had been reported somewhere that it's now been definitely cancelled? Does anyone know any of the details about this, and whether it is indeed the case? Hmm...I'm scouting around online and haven't found confirmation yet. Speaking of other grrl power sci-fi shows, apparently "Witchblade" has temporarily ceased production because Yancy Butler has checked herself into rehab for alcoholism or something. They've already filmed like half the season or something, it still premieres June 16 on TNT... Also, apparently Sandra Bullock is now dating her "Murder by Numbers" co-star Ryan Gosling, aka Young Hercules! Lol...she's 37 and he's 21, too...interesting. -Sarah, aka the abbagirl- P.S. Woo-hoo, just got an email from Amazon.com saying that they FINALLY just shipped my copy of the new Nikki Stafford book "How Xena Changed Our Lives: True Stories By and For Fans"! Yaay! :) P.P.S. I'm now definitely going to Chicago this Sunday and ushering for the final performance of "Xena Live 2"!! So, look for the usher with the Gabby t-shirt and the long blonde hair. :) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 22:08:27 -0400 From: mirrordrum Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #142 At 04:36 AM 5/29/2002 -0400, Sekhmet209@aol.com wrote: >Cheryl Ande wrote: > > > >...there are ... fans who may have a few fanatasies > >This is a really great typo... > >--Sekhmet (a fanatic with fanatasies ) okay, so you have fanaticsies. i suppose one of those would be that you'd be more deserving than gabrielle? ;-> >Of course. Especially since the little blonde kid doesn't deserve her. it's a matter of some fascination to me that all you xenahos think xena is so effing clever and can rarely find fault with her decision making but can't trust the woman to know her own soulmate when tptb find her one. tsk tsk tsk. jealousy is *so* blinding. >--Sekhmet (running for cover) pish, dear, you don't need to run for cover. the fates have spoken. those of us who are content with xena's choice, or possibly fate, have 6 seasons of reruns and/or tapes and, i hope, eventually dvds. the die is cast and we be in luck. but seriously, what kind of person (personal fantasies about oneself aside) would y'all pick for xena's partner or soulmate if not gabrielle. i've thought about who that might be, man or woman, and find it interesting to contemplate. i guess a better question would be, if you take away the requirements of the story, what do you think would be the qualities xena would be attracted to in a life partner or significant other? or alternatively, if you consider the requirements of the story, how would you construct her "soulmate" so that the series would work and you wouldn't dislike the person? md ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 22:18:05 -0400 (EDT) From: cjlnh@webtv.net (Cheryl LaScola) Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] "Dark Angel"? Regarding Yancy Butler and Witchblade... I didn't know the news about ceasing production and the rehab thing, but I always thought Lucy could be great in that role... Maybe we should petition TNT?? Of course a tough as kickin NYC cop is probably the last thing Lucy wants to sign up for right now... in one way I can't blame her .... she has more depth than action genre.... I can dream of seeing once a week though...sigh ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 22:12:50 -0500 From: "H.J.J. Hewitt" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Ideal soulmate for Xena (had been Re: chakram-refugees-digest V2) My candidate's an impossible one, as they are separated by genre and time, but it would be Tyr Anasazi of ANDROMEDA. If you don't know the show, you won't see what I mean. If you do know the show, you can see why he could be fitting as more of an \equal/ partner than the choices available to Xena were... a rare match in looks, prowess, charisma, superiority to other mortals (and a rather jaundiced view of them) mitigated by occasional fallibility, and the bond of his own kind of inner battle between Dark and Light. They would \understand/ each other. TEXena who could never fathom Marcus' early role as The Great Love of Xena's Life ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 23:43:01 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] "Dark Angel"? Hi, Sarah inquired: > Hey, folks...for a while I've been hearing rumors that "Dark Angel" (one >of my faves, a chicks-kicking-ass show spawned no doubt by Xena and Buffy) >was in danger of not being renewed for a 3rd season, and today I saw some >scrolling thing on VH1 or MTV or something saying that it had been >reported somewhere that it's now been definitely cancelled? Does anyone >know any of the details about this, and whether it is indeed the case? Sadly, it's true ... when FOX announced their fall schedule a couple weeks ago, to everyone's surprise (not least James Cameron's) DARK ANGEL wasn't on it. Daily Variety had just reported a couple days earlier that FOX had decided to renew DARK ANGEL and push Joss Whedon's new show FIREFLY to midseason, but when the schedule came out DARK ANGEL had gotten the boot, and FIREFLY will premiere in September in its place. This is bittersweet for me ... I love DARK ANGEL (and think the season - now series - finale left WAY too many things just dangling in the wind), but I'm glad to see that we won't have to wait until next year to see FIREFLY. :( I haven't been able to find any follow-up stories to indicate whether there is any chance another network might save DARK ANGEL (like, say, UPN or even Sci-Fi). I'm thinking chances are slim, though, since the production costs were just so high. At the very least, I'd like to see FOX give Cameron a two-hour telefilm so the show can at least get properly wrapped up. It's almost criminal to leave things just hanging like that. (For the non-viewer, imagine if X:WP had gotten cancelled the week after "Sacrifice II" aired ... it's not quite THAT bad cliffhanger-wise, but it's not that far off.) Cheryl responded: >Regarding Yancy Butler and Witchblade... I didn't know the news about >ceasing production and the rehab thing, but I always thought Lucy could >be great in that role... Maybe we should petition TNT?? For news, see http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-tv.html?2002-05/24/13.30.tv. Apparently the producers are nosing around for a possible replacement, should Butler not be able to keep her commitment to the show. When I read this I immediately thought of LL as well ... though it's probably not the sort of thing she'd want to do at the moment. Too close to typecasting for comfort. I hear Jessica Alba is looking for a job ... ============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth ============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://www.smoe.org/meth/muzak.html ============================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #144 **************************************