From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #142 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Tuesday, May 28 2002 Volume 02 : Number 142 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] [chakram-refugees] Re: When In Rome [KLOSSNER9@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] <> [Lilli Sprintz ] Re: [chakram-refugees] favorite sayings? [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] favorite sayings? ["Creation (Sharon Delaney)" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] favorite sayings? [mirrordrum Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Monday 27 May 2002 09:35, Cheryl Ande wrote: > @ > @ > @ > @ > @@ > @ > @ > > This is one of the more underrated episodes. It is very good. It uses > themes created through out the third season to build a very suspenseful > episode. (snip) > > For Gabrielle it is one more nail in the coffin of her innocence. She has > become a willing accessory in murder. > Although Xena latter tries to take the blame for Gabrielle's, Gabrielle > will have none of it. She knows that she alone is responsible for her own > actions and she now must wonder what kind of person she has become. This > episode leads nicely into the fourth season where Gabrielle tries to find > some remedy for her battered soul. I thought that was well plotted. IMO Gabby was being quite unrealistic in episodes like The Debts where she tried to stop Xena killing Ming Tien. It was interesting to see Gabby faced with the same moral responsibility. What I thought was rather weak was when Gabby was escorting Crassus as a captive on the road to Rome. I think he would have overpowered her in five minutes flat, tied up or not. > > Favorite line: When a bloodied and battered guard announces Xena. > Caesar upon seeing Xena sputters: What...How did... When did... > Xena: I know there's a sentence in there dying to get out. Yes, nice! > Introduction of a great new character: Pompey played with smarmy > enthusiasm by Jeremy Callahan. Yes, I actually rather liked Pompey in this ep. He got nastier later on. But either way, he was a great character. > Historical YAXIs - I guess plenty but wasn't Caesar Pompey's father-in-law > (or vice versa) so they shouldn't be the same age. > > CherylA I thought they *very* neatly worked around the biggest YAXI - which is that Crassus died in Syria (or so says history). In the Xena version, he was rescued at the last moment by Xena (presumably unreported by history, which last heard of him about to be killed by his Syrian captors). And he was (in the Xena version) executed in Rome, but _only_ Caesar and Pompey knew who he was and they both had very good reasons not to spill the beans. Very, very nicely done, TPTB! cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 00:35:52 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Monday 27 May 2002 04:27, meredith wrote: > Hi, > > Cheryl reviewed: > >King Con is better than I remembered it. Patrick Fabian as Rafe is > > certainly hansome enough to attract Xena and the actor has more > > chemeistry with Lucy that the Ulysses actor. > > I agree with the chemistry being better, but that certainly didn't take > much. However, this still can't save the episode from sitting in my bottom > 3 for the entire series. The annual "see, kids? Xena and Gabrielle can't > POSSIBLY be anything but JUST FRIENDS!!!" episodes really pissed me off. > Where does that follow? We know perfectly well Xena in her past had a healthy appetite, so to speak. I don't see why she should have changed. Don't tie her down! Thelonius ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 14:45:53 EDT From: KLOSSNER9@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: When In Rome /I thought they *very* neatly worked around the biggest YAXI - which is that /Crassus died in Syria (or so says history). In the Xena version, he was /rescued at the last moment by Xena (presumably unreported by history, which /last heard of him about to be killed by his Syrian captors). And he was (in /the Xena version) executed in Rome, but _only_ Caesar and Pompey knew who/ /he was and they both had very good reasons not to spill the beans. Very, /very nicely done, TPTB! Crassus was killed not by Syrians but by the Parthians, who were the successors of the Persians (and ancestors of the Iranians), at Carrhae, which is in modern Iraq, not Syria. Crassus was the richest man in Rome. As part of the First Triumvirate with Caesar and Pompey, he was the rival of the other two; each wanted to be dictator. Since Caesar and Pompey were both successful conquerors and Crassus hadn't conquered anything, he used his fortune to get the best army money could buy. He recruited many of the best Roman officers and veteran troops, gave them the best equipment, ships and horses and took them to the Middle East under his leadership. He had to be a successful general to vie with Caesar and Pompey for power. At Carrhae in 53 B.C. the Parthians cut off his army in the desert and wiped out the Romans after they were weakened by thirst. It was one of the two biggest defeats suffered by Rome between Cannae (Hannibal, 2nd Punic War, 216 B.C.) and Adrianople (Visigoths, 375 A.D., the begining of the final fall of Rome). The other was the destruction of several legions under Varus by the Germans in the Teutoburg Forest, 9 A.D., which was recently the subject of a History Channel documentary. The bit in the episode which was really anti-historical was the idea that Crassus would not have been recognized by anyone except his fellow politicians. Politicians in First Century B.C. Rome were like modern American politicians, except they didn't have television. They were always out making speeches, making promises, telling people how great they were. Think of multiple Bill Clintons in togas. Shakespeare's play Julius Caesar was accurate in showing what happened in crises, like the assassination of Ceasar; the first thing everyone did was to make speeches to convince the "mob" their side was in the right. Republican Rome wasn't a democracy but the "mob" did count for a lot. Nobody wanted to be on the losing side of a riot. Boeotian ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 20:20:50 -0500 From: Lilli Sprintz Subject: [chakram-refugees] <> <> <> Cheryl says, Gabrielle now allows Crassus to be lead to his death....For Gabrielle it is one more nail in the coffin of her innocence. She has become a willing accessory in murder. This was one of the hardest things I saw going on in that season. In a matter of speaking, I was one of those (being careful here to not tread on toes) people who saw Gabrielle as a wimp. When I saw her taking action later in Seasons 2 and then 3, I cheered. But "no death penalty" is in my bones, and I fear I am in conflict. I wasn't really sure it was Gabrielle's, or anyone's place, in that place, to choose for Crassus to die. Goodness...did I just say that? What would have happened if Gabrielle hadn't "killed him" ? He and Ceasar and Pompey would have stayed allied, perhaps a bit longer and done more injustice to alot of other folks. Need I say "Gaul" being part of that? Does anyone out there have information about what the real trinity (being careful also with religious people here, but they did think they were gods, didn't they), did in history? Leaving this go for a minute...it was the loss of innocence that also hurt that season. I am also (I am doing lots of ownership of beliefs here), and I, and perhaps lots of other posters in the original Chakram, were hurt when Gabrielle really did change. It was this loss of innocence thing. Like, I know, and believe, we are all born innocent. It's our experiences in life that sometimes err us away from that direction, and teach us that , por exemplo, "our nation, right or wrong," or "I don't care who I hurt." It's being hurt over and over again, I believe, that gets us to lose our innocence. Though I do believe, from some experience, that if we get to work on those issues emotionally, and have support from others, that we may find that innocence still inside us. Which is why I was so upset as I watched Gabrielle lose hers, as i and others have presumably lost ours. I wanted to see her keep on laughing, making jokes, doing the right thing for the right reason, and keep on hoping that there was, indeed, some reason for trying something other than a violent end. There, I said it. So, both issues that season were difficult. And if I had killed Hitler before he had a chance to do all he did , would I have felt bad about it? I hope not. It's a difficult issue that human beings are over and over again trying to sort out. Lilli ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 20:32:56 -0500 From: Lilli Sprintz Subject: [chakram-refugees] favorite sayings? Cheryl also says, Favorite line: (When in Rome) When a bloodied and battered guard announces Xena. Caesar upon seeing Xena sputters: What...How did... When did... Xena: I know there's a sentence in there dying to get out. Hey, this makes me feel like getting in a little thing about saying our favorite lines from Xena. Any others? ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 17:41:33 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] favorite sayings? > Favorite line: (When in Rome) > When a bloodied and battered guard announces Xena. > Caesar upon seeing Xena sputters: What...How did... When did... > > Xena: I know there's a sentence in there dying to get out. > > > Hey, this makes me feel like getting in a little thing about saying our > favorite lines from Xena. > > Any others? I think my all time favorite is during Fins, Femmes and Gems when Gabrielle is staring in amazed stupefaction at the frieze showing sexual positions in Aphrodite's temple. And she says in wonder, "That's not humanly possible..." Xena gives a quick glance over at it and says, totally nonchalantly "Sure it is." KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 19:00:40 -0700 From: "Creation (Sharon Delaney)" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] favorite sayings? >> Favorite line: (When in Rome) >> When a bloodied and battered guard announces Xena. >> Caesar upon seeing Xena sputters: What...How did... When did... >> >> Xena: I know there's a sentence in there dying to get out. >> >> >> Hey, this makes me feel like getting in a little thing about saying our >> favorite lines from Xena. >> >> Any others? > > >I think my all time favorite is during Fins, Femmes and Gems when >Gabrielle is staring in amazed stupefaction at the frieze showing sexual >positions in Aphrodite's temple. > >And she says in wonder, "That's not humanly possible..." > >Xena gives a quick glance over at it and says, totally nonchalantly >"Sure it is." > >KT I'm going to make that a running foot in issue #19 Sharon ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 22:23:28 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] favorite sayings? Hi, Lilli put forth: >Hey, this makes me feel like getting in a little thing about saying our >favorite lines from Xena. > >Any others? Heh. Well, there are dramatic lines and comedic lines. For me, as far as dramatic lines go it's a toss up between "Go home. There are thousands more like me!" from OAAA, and, from "Tsunami": Macon: "Why? I'm a killer. Why'd you come back? What'd you expect?" X: "From you-- nothin'. From me, nothin' less." And for comedic lines, I'd say my favorite is "Believe me. If I have to go the rest of my life without companionship, knowing myself won't be a problem." from "Warrior... Priestess ... Tramp". ============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth ============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://www.smoe.org/meth/muzak.html ============================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 22:57:38 -0400 From: mirrordrum Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] favorite sayings? At 08:32 PM 5/27/2002 -0500, Lilli Sprintz wrote: >Cheryl also says, > >Favorite line: (When in Rome) >When a bloodied and battered guard announces Xena. >Caesar upon seeing Xena sputters: What...How did... When did... > >Xena: I know there's a sentence in there dying to get out. > > >Hey, this makes me feel like getting in a little thing about saying our >favorite lines from Xena. > >Any others? oooooh, fave lines. i'd probably have to do it by season and actor. first season: X: "you're gonna cut your throat and then jump. that's overdoing it a bit, don't you think?" Auto: "of course the trick in killing someone with an apricot is in the wrist. unfortunately it kills instantly and there's no time to gather information. so for situations like that, i use a muffin." and a lot of the wonderful lines are wonderful because of the delivery: from season 1 x (looking at gab's new amazon outfit): "what's this?" g: "i'm an amazon princess?" x: "great." season 2 from, uh, gab to xena: "does an amazon queen beat a warrior princess?" xena: "do you really wanna find out?" such fun. md ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 23:36:46 -0400 From: mirrordrum Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] favorite sayings? At 10:23 PM 5/27/2002 -0400, meredith wrote: > Macon: "Why? I'm a killer. Why'd you come back? What'd you > expect?" > X: "From you-- nothin'. From me, nothin' less." i like that one a lot. i think mine may be from . when gabrielle first really sees warlord xena and asks her what's going on, how can she do the things she's doing and xena replies "this is war. what did you expect, glamour?" that's the line lucy ad-libbed, yes? favorite funny callisto line is from when hope emerges and says "hello mother." callisto: "awwww, the mother and child reunion. i'm all misty-eyed." md ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #142 **************************************