From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #138 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Friday, May 24 2002 Volume 02 : Number 138 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] [chakram-refugees] Re: Reflections od the Ring [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Reflections on the Ring [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Reflections on the Ring <> [] Re: [chakram-refugees] Reflections on the Ring <> [cr > [cr > [cr ] [chakram-refugees] Ides of March speculation [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [Mark & Denise ] [chakram-refugees] a/list archives [meredith ] [chakram-refugees] Herc in my book [KLOSSNER9@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] 2 of 10,000 answers [KLOSSNER9@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] I'm gonna say goodbye [BElannafan@aol.com (by way of m] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 20:33:11 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Thursday 23 May 2002 06:23, Mark & Denise wrote: > cr wrote: > > But the places in OAAA are just impossible. The _only_ way I can begin > > to account for them is the epistemologically unsatisfactory catch-all > > 'explanation' (which isn't really an explanation at all) that the story > > is based on Gabs' scrolls and she was so high on arrow-poison that she > > had no clue where they were. > > Ohhhh... I like that one! Makes it kinda like a nutbread inducted haze, > right?! > > Mark Yes, *but* the snag with that is that most episodes are _not_ ostensibly taken verbatim from the scrolls, they're seen with what I think used to be called the 'eye of god' (in reference to novels) - that is, as if a hidden camera was there impartially recording all that went on. (Looking Death in the Eye is a classic example). Which, as I said, causes massive problems for OAAA. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 21:02:11 +1200 From: cr Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: Reflections od the Ring On Thursday 23 May 2002 10:44, Cheryl Ande wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "cr" : > > Yes, I was watching RotV again last night. And he does have a heap of > > charisma. Wonder how 'Ulysses' would have been received if they'd cast > him? > > Oww I hadn't thought of that. Yes he would have made a much better > Ulysess - but then almost anyone would have except Ted Raimi. Odd, in a way, because the guy they cast as Ulysses was quite good-looking, whereas Beowulf really wasn't. At his best you could say he looked - umm, amiable? Mature? Solid? Certainly not handsome. But he had heaps of charisma, I think. > > My favourite moments with those two - Brunnhilde muttering 'lousy > > stoolpigeons' about the ravens; and Beowulf on the subject of the name > Wealthea - "Maybe it's Gaelic for.. [door opens and Xena rides in] ... > Warrior Princess!" > > My favorite Beowulf moment is Odin lands on the beach and his side kick > kneels and Beowulf pull him up by the collar. No grovelling to Odin for > his crew. I liked that little moment. And Xena's expression after she tells Odin she doesn't know him from his horse - very uncertain, as if she's not sure what Odin's reaction is going to be and she's a little apprehensive he's going to hit her or something.... she blinks a couple of times, which I've never seen Xena do. Sort of overawed by her own boldness. The real Xena was certainly out to lunch or at least tea break at that moment, I think. > Not to mention leaping through a > > > > fire ring to kiss my friend like Prince(ss) Charming (I'd probably run > > and get a fire extinguisher for her but no leaping into the flames). > > > Obviously you're not cut out for epics ;) > > Well I like to watch episc but I always thought the adventuous like way too > comfortable. Anyway heros are always getting hurt and I have hard enough > time getting by health insurance to pay for day to day stuff. How would I > ever explain being singed by rings of fire, being skewed by walking trees, > or having been dropped into the ocean and needing treatment for amnesia. I'd love to see your claim form. ;) > By the way was it the valkaries who dropped Xena into the ocean so that > Hagar the Horrible could find her? That's the ipression I got. > You know I never thought about it.... I assumed either that Hagar had found her on land and made the story up (since she obviously had amnesia for a while), or else she must have fallen in the sea all by herself. Why would the Valkyries drop her in the sea rather than kill her outright? No reason why they couldn't have done it that way, I guess. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 20:52:15 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Reflections on the Ring On Thursday 23 May 2002 09:13, Sojourner wrote: > At 23:51 19/05/2002 +1200, cr wrote: > >*** Spoilers for , ,, > >, , ******** > > I've given up spoiler space for Lent - on the basis the show has been over > for 12 months. Leaving the warnings in. > > >s > >s > >s > > > >snipped > > > > > > > >On another list there was just a big debate about LL's comment on the FIN > >DVD about her character being 'outed'. Well, IMO, nobody was ever > > 'outed' more thoroughly than Brunnhilde when she was talking about > > proving her love for Gabby. I thought even my straight and > > subtext-oblivious wife would raise an eyebrow at that, but presumably she > > regarded Brunnhilde's sentiments as spiritual rather than tangible. ;) > > The old saying - love is love is love - appraently falls over when the > various types of love are explicated. > > Apparently the least likely love between these two women is romantic love. That's what I thought it was supposed to be. But then, what do I know, I still think Xena and Gabs had a Platonic relationship. ;-) > >The first meeting of all four - Xena, Gabs, Brunnhilde and Beowulf - was > > when B and B were declaring their intention to never leave Gabrielle. > > And though that was kinda sudden and hard to credit, the highlight for me > > was the 'tired' look Xena gave in the background. Beautiful acting by > > LL. There are times when she is just so good. > > I thought B&B were kinda sneaking around X's injunction to "get outta here, > this ain't your battle" by saying they were staying for the blonde chick - > not the dark-haired one. Gabby of course took it personal and thought they > really meant it. And persuaded the script writers to go with it. Of course, > Beowulf had the agape too?? Xena thought they really meant it too, I think, judging by her 'what the heck is going on?' expression. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 20:48:00 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Thursday 23 May 2002 06:38, Meredith Tarr wrote: > Hi, > > Thelonius responded: > > How about Seraphin. > > A bit overzealous and misguided, but possessed natural > cuteness and not that annoying of a voice. Elicited > no desire to hurl a missile (referably made of rock) > through my television screen. (snip for bandwidth) (snip for luck) (snip to save my butt from the bandwidth police) > So there you go. (Hey, you asked! ) > > Meredith, back to work Admit it. You *enjoyed* that! ;-) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 20:28:36 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Reflections on the Ring <> On Thursday 23 May 2002 05:47, Lilli Sprintz wrote: > Forgive me Richan. I credited CR with your quote. Hey, do I get asked for forgiveness too? ;-] cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 20:38:51 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Reflections on the Ring <> On Thursday 23 May 2002 06:26, Meredith Tarr wrote: > Hi, > > Ife responded: > > Yes, I too was a bit puzzled B's feelings for G -- > > mainly because there > > seemed to be more significance to this than I was > > getting. I mean, I could > > understand her admiration for G's character, even > > being attracted to G, but > > the "I gave up my god for you" seemed a bit ove the > > top. > > I chalked that up to a lot of off-camera time being > spent traveling, during which time Brunhilde had ample > opportunity to go totally head over heels for > Gabrielle. Hmm, I hadn't had the impression of a *lot* of time off camera - but the time isn't really specified in the ep, and it does help account for Brunnhilde's fixation, so I'll buy that. > On the other hand, Beowulf's sudden > puppylike fondness for Gabrielle, after having known > her for approximately two minutes is what seemed to > come out of nowhere to me. Probably for the following reason :- > (It obviously confused > Xena, too. ) I'm still not sure what TPTB were > trying to accomplish with that. I think maybe just to give LL a chance for that classic Xena reaction. I *loved* watching LL's acting there. And I guess, for later, they needed a reason for Beowulf to try to rescue Gabby which is what set up all of the action in RotV. And Beowulf had hardly any time to fall for Gabby because he never saw her again after Brunnhilde carried her off.... It was a bit clumsy though. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 21:34:13 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Reflections on the Ring <> On Thursday 23 May 2002 15:29, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 05/22/2002 2:37:09 AM Central Daylight Time, > cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > << > I just think it's interesting how many folks in this trilogy > > > were willing to sacrifice everything for love of Gabrielle. Another > > pre-indicator of her multi-faceted new role after FIN?) > > > > -- Ife > > After FIN? In my Xenaverse there is nothing after FIN. To what do you > refer? :) > > > The post-FIN of our imaginations (at least for those of us who wish to > imagine that). FIN suggested Gabrielle might have use for the > chakram. I'm simply saying I believe they also set her up as being someone > people would follow out of love, not just because of her warrior skills. > > -- Ife OK. Yes, FIN definitely handed Xena's chacky on to Gabs (I personally wish they hadn't. IMO it was Xena's weapon, it should have gone with her just as Excalibur was returned to the lake after Arthur died). And yes, what you say about people follwing Gabby is correct - the Ring trilogy for example. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 21:49:55 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Thursday 23 May 2002 15:29, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 05/22/2002 2:37:10 AM Central Daylight Time, > cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > << On Wednesday 22 May 2002 04:09, Meredith Tarr wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Thelonius responded: > > > Aww, I thought she was rather cute. ;-) > > > > Gods, I *hope* you're kidding. > > > > I forgot to mention in my response last night that > > Tara is by far the most grating and obnoxious > > character ever to soil the Xenaverse (imnsho). > > Oh no. Not kidding at all. Much. >> > > Gotta admit, I loved how Tara combined the worst of early Gab and Xena. > That's what made it kind of touching for me -- that G&X had to deal with > aspects of themselves that once (and still) irritated others. Tara > could've been either of them, which I think they recognized in wanting to > help her. In a way, she was the teenager they didn't have to deal with in > the full-grown Livia/Eve. As to the character herself, I liked that she > was more "real" than some of the other incidental folks who were more > cardboard "good" or "bad." I thought that Shiri played her quite well, actually. Definitely a mixed-up kid. She had good impulses and wanted to be liked but was afraid to let her guard down in case someone got to her. And not as tough as she wanted to make out. > In many ways, I preferred her to Joxer, because > she provoked emotions in and challenges for X&G. I'll always have a soft > spot for Forgiven and Tale of Two Muses because Tara brought out different > aspects in X&G and was an excuse to bring out some new dimensions in my > grrrls. > > -- Ife For no particular reason, I quite like Tale of Two Muses also... solely on the grounds that the cast looked as if they had fun making it. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 22:02:08 +1200 From: cr Subject: [chakram-refugees] Ides of March speculation Spoilers for s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s I'm having a debate on another list which has thrown up an interesting point about the 'Gabspaz' in Ides that I don't think I've seen debated before. Which is, that if the Roman soldier hadn't rushed forward with the obvious intention of skewering Xena and triggered off the 'Gabspaz', but instead had just run up and captured her, what would Gabby have done? Presumably her killing spree wouldn't have happened. Would she have tried to fight off the Romans in a non-lethal way and been captured? Or rushed to help Xena? Or made her escape with the intention of staging a rescue? And, what _should_ she have done? Any offers? cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 13:06:09 -0500 From: Mark & Denise Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> cr wrote: > > > For no particular reason, I quite like Tale of Two Muses also... solely on > the grounds that the cast looked as if they had fun making it. I gotta agree. I'm sure all those smiles and laughs that were visible on the cast weren't all in the script ! Autolycus was his usual 'over the top'. Some of those tunes from the ep kept rattling around inside my head for weeks afterwards too. I though the choreographing on the dance scenes was great.. For some reason, that slow, graceful looking, backflip that X [or LL's dutiful stunt double] did at the end of the ep really hit a spot with me. Mark ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 20:29:11 -0400 From: meredith Subject: [chakram-refugees] a/list archives Hi, Just a friendly public service announcement about the list archives. If for some reason you miss a Digest or would like to browse through old posts, all Digests are archived online at: http://www.smoe.org/lists/chakram-refugees/ Unfortunately we don't yet have a search function on the archives, though we're working on that. Also, while I'm here I might as well mention that smoe.org hosts a ton of other mailing lists, mostly for music fans to discuss and get info about their favorite artists. All the lists are listed at http://www.smoe.org/lists/, so if you're looking for more mail in your inbox browse through there and see if there's anything you're interested in. ============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth ============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://www.smoe.org/meth/muzak.html ============================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 21:03:33 EDT From: KLOSSNER9@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] Herc in my book McFarland Publishers has published my first (and probably last) book, The Europe of 1500 to 1815 on Film and Television, under my mundane name, Michael Klossner. You can see the publisher's page on the book at http://www.mcfarlandpub.com click on "search", enter "klossner" as author search, then click on the title. I included the following-- 1052. Hercules: The Legendary Journeys: Les Contemptibles (1997) U.S.; dir. Charlie Haskell; Renaissance Pictures. Episode of TV series; 44 min.; color. Screenplay, Brian Herskowitz. CAST: Kevin Sorbo (Robert); Michael Hurst (Jean-Pierre); Robert Trebor ( Francois Demarigny); Danielle Cormack (Marie DeValle, bthe Chartreuse Foxb). A merciless and generally funny send-up of classic swashbuckler films. The Hercules series (1995-1999) is of course usually set in the ancient world but this episode concerns two descendants of Hercules and his friend Iolaus, both lazy highwaymen in France in 1789. They fall in with two aristocrats who claim to be revolutionaries. Everyone betrays everybody else, almost everyone is really interested in money and all the actors speak in deliberately atrocious French accents. By accident they start the Revolution. Every convention of this sort of film is trotted out and derided. Cormack, whose character has the nom de guerre bthe Chartreuse Foxb, is especially exuberant. A better and bolder satire than Start the Revolution without Me (1969). Ref: Internet web site http://www.whoosh.org. Boeotian ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 21:14:42 EDT From: KLOSSNER9@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] 2 of 10,000 answers 10,000 Answers: The Ultimate Trivia Encyclopedia, by Stanley Newman and Hal Fittipaldi (Random House, 2001), has the following-- Argo Horse of the title character (Lucy Lawless) in the TV series Xena: Warrior Princess. "Sins of the Past" Debut episode of the TV series Xena: Warrior Princess, which aired in September 1995. Since the book simply has 10,000 short facts in alphabetical order, it of course has value only for browsing, not reference. It does have a good subject index, which establishes that these are the only two Xena facts in the book. Boeotian ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 21:41:16 -0400 From: BElannafan@aol.com (by way of meredith ) Subject: [chakram-refugees] I'm gonna say goodbye I haven't really posted here in quite some time and I've signed up for Missy Good's pup list which gets my Xena and fanfic fix fulfilled quite nicely. There's also too many e-mails with the two lists so one has to go. I would like to thank all the folks on the Chakram & C- Refugees list for the many entertaining and thought provoking on-line hours. See you at the cons. BTW I will be at the Orl. con in seat A13. For those who will be there, come and visit. Take care and good bye. Jan ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #138 **************************************