From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #136 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Wednesday, May 22 2002 Volume 02 : Number 136 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Reflections on the Ring <> [] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [Meredith Tarr > [Meredith Tarr > ["Cheryl Ande" > ["Cheryl Ande" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Reflections on the Ring <> [] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: <> [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Reflections on the Ring <> [] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 19:31:22 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Tuesday 21 May 2002 11:17, Cheryl Ande wrote: > # > # > # > # > ## > # > Forgiven is a nice little episode. It fails mainly because it is so > predictable. You know the bratty girl will see the light. The bad boy the > girl loves will be really bad. Nothing very interesting happens. Sherry > Applegate is suitably obnoxious as Tara Aww, I thought she was rather cute. ;-) > We also have a wonderful > ending with Xena walking away into the setting sun - determined not to > accept any man's forgiveness for things she cannot forgive in herself. That was, IMO, the one really striking moment in the episode. Very effective. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 19:43:06 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Tuesday 21 May 2002 11:04, Cheryl Ande wrote: > # > # > # > # > # > ## > # > # > This is one of my favorite episodes. Not mine. Pity someone didn't buy the writers an elementary history book and a MAP! I'll say no more... this time. ;-) Thelonius ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 19:53:34 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Reflections on the Ring <> On Tuesday 21 May 2002 02:12, Richan@aol.com wrote: > cr writes: > > Well, IMO, nobody was ever 'outed' > > more thoroughly than Brunnhilde when she was talking about proving her > > love > > > > for Gabby. I thought even my straight and subtext-oblivious wife would > > raise an eyebrow at that, but presumably she regarded Brunnhilde's > > sentiments > > as spiritual rather than tangible. > > We talked about this in my Humanities class. We discussed the three types > of love as defined by the Ancient Greeks: agape, felios, and Eros; where > agape > is all encompassing love usually reserved for one's god, felios is love of > friend, > and Eros is sexually based. Brunnhilde said, "I gave up my god for you." > The consensus in the Humanities class was that Brunnhilde had agape for > Gabrielle. Well, that's not the impression I got, though it's the interpretation I think would fit the plot best. Brunnhilde seemed an altogether more practical and pragmatic character to me, unlikely to be drawn to the intellectual or intangible side of things. Whatever it was, it was rather sudden. cr - ------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 09:09:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Meredith Tarr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> Hi, Thelonius responded: > Aww, I thought she was rather cute. ;-) Gods, I *hope* you're kidding. I forgot to mention in my response last night that Tara is by far the most grating and obnoxious character ever to soil the Xenaverse (imnsho). I'll never forget LaLa's (hilarious, as always) Episode Review, which dubbed her "la bete noir". That about sums her up for me. In fact, my loathing of Tara is why I didn't start watching _Roswell_ until the first season had almost completely gone by. Thank the gods Shiri Appleby was a lot easier to take as Liz Parker (though she too could be mighty annoying at times). Meredith meth@smoe.org LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 09:12:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Meredith Tarr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> Hi, Thelonius exclaimed: > Pity someone didn't buy the writers an elementary > history book and a MAP! Umm... and this situation differs from most all other X:WP episodes *how*, exactly?! I gotta say I find it mighty strange that anyone who is willing to suspend the copious amount of disbelief necessary to become a regular viewer of this show (never mind a fan) can get tripped up by an episode that doesn't stray as far afield as, say, "Beware Greeks Bearing Gifts" taking place *after* the events chronicled in "Destiny". Meredith meth@smoe.org LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 13:58:16 -0700 From: "Creation (Sharon Delaney)" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Shakespeare with Renee Dates/Locations/Directions UPDATE Please pass this along :) Sharon Official Xena Fan Club Renee will be performing Lady Macbeth in the Shakespeare by the Sea production of Macbeth. It starts June 27 and will run for five weeks in San Pedro (Point Fermin Park). Then it will go on a tour of the beach cities of Southern California until August http://www.shakespearebythesea.org/calendar.html Renee will be flying to Cherry Hill for her appearance there on August 10. Shakespeare by the Sea is free -- you do not need a ticket. Seating is available on a first come, first served basis. People begin showing up an hour or so before the show begins to get seats. Beach chairs, blankets and warm, layered clothing are recommended. Point Fermin has bench seating, however many people bring their own chairs -- all tour locations are open grassy areas without seats - so definitely bring your own chairs or be prepared to sit on the ground. Picnics are welcome. All performances have a pre-show 1/2 hour prior to the performance. Photography/Taping is not permitted during performances -- you may have a chance for photos after the show - but that's not guaranteed. Renee's dates/times/locations -- click on address links for Yahoo maps showing location or Mapquest (http://www.mapquest.com/cgi-bin/mqtrip?link=btwn/twn-ddir_na_basic_main&dir=New +Directions) for driving instructions: 6/27 (opening night), 28, 29 -- San Pedro, Pt. Fermin Park -- 8 PM 7/5, 12, 18, 20 -- San Pedro, Pt. Fermin -- 8 PM 807 Paseo del Mar, San Pedro http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?&addr=807+Paseo+del+Mar&csz=San+Pedro%2C+CA+907 31 7/26 -- Hermosa Beach, Valley Park -- 7 PM Valley & Gould, Hermosa Beach http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?BFCat=&Pyt=Tmap&newFL=Use+Address+Below&addr=He rmosa+%26+Gould&csz=Hermosa+Beach%2C+CA&Country=us&Get%07Map=Get+Map 8/1, 3 -- Wilmington, Banning Park -- 7 PM 1331 Eubank St., Wilmington http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?&addr=1331+Eubank+St.&csz=Wilmington+CA+90744 8/9 -- Manhattan Beach, Polliwog Park -- 7 PM 1601 Manhattan Beach Blvd., Manhattan Beach http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?&addr=1601+Manhattan+Beach+Blvd&csz=Manhattan+B each%2C+CA++90266 8/16 (closing night) -- San Pedro, Pt. Fermin -- 7 PM ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 19:58:57 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: Reflections od the Ring cr wrote: "As it is, Britney Powell and Renato Bartolomei were good enough that I really liked their characters. Saved by good casting, I think." The casting of these two actors was brilliant Both Brunhilda and Beowulf could have come off so badly - Brunhilda as a obsessive stalker and Beowulf as just plain boring. But the actors made the characters very synpathetic. I loved Renato Bartolomei so much I though seriously of statring a petion drive to get Beowulf his own series - heck he already had a sidekick ;-). As for the subtext oblivous well I don't how more obvious it could have been made that Brunhilda was in LOVE with Gabrielle. She said it, Odin said it, even the damn raven said it. It is also pretty clear that Gabrielle and Xena were more than friends - I have never left a note for my best friend with a big ole kiss on it. Not to mention leaping through a fire ring to kiss my friend like Prince(ss) Charming (I'd probably run and get a fire extinguisher for her but no leaping into the flames). CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 20:05:37 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: <> Mark wrote: "Wasn't this the first time Xena disregards the 'Greater Good' theme because of Gabrielle being in trouble? I did kind of find it ironic that Gabrielle was the one being so stoic and realistic regarding the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the one. Oops..... wrong show!" I don't know if it has ever beed really put to the test to this extent but basically I feel Xena's not an idealist. She do'll good but it's for practical reasons not for some higher ideal. Gabrielle is much more of an idealist - she would die for a cause. Xena I don't think ever would - she has to have some kind of concret outcome for her sacrifice. Even when she died fro the 40,000 she knew exactly what the outcome would be - they would be released into a state of grace. Cheryl ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 20:11:44 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] RE: <> Meredith wrote: 'This is the only iffy thing about this episode ... that "I have the power of prophecy" thing comes straight out of left field. I understand that the line as quoted was in the original draft of _...." The odd thing is that on the closed cationing the line is "they have the gift of prophecy". I don't quit know what she is saying. I do know that in the Ru Emerson novels Gabby does seem to have prophetic talents. I guess TPTB though they wouldn't saddle themselves with talent for Gabby - I could see her forever staring off into space saying to Xena: "Wait I'm having a vision but I don't know what it means." It would probaby get a little old fast. Cheryl ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 21:42:58 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Reflections on the Ring <> In a message dated 05/21/2002 1:57:19 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: << On Tuesday 21 May 2002 02:12, Richan@aol.com wrote: > cr writes: > > Well, IMO, nobody was ever 'outed' > > more thoroughly than Brunnhilde when she was talking about proving her > > love > > > > for Gabby. I thought even my straight and subtext-oblivious wife would > > raise an eyebrow at that, but presumably she regarded Brunnhilde's > > sentiments > > as spiritual rather than tangible. > > We talked about this in my Humanities class. We discussed the three types > of love as defined by the Ancient Greeks: agape, felios, and Eros; where > agape > is all encompassing love usually reserved for one's god, felios is love of > friend, > and Eros is sexually based. Brunnhilde said, "I gave up my god for you." > The consensus in the Humanities class was that Brunnhilde had agape for > Gabrielle. Well, that's not the impression I got, though it's the interpretation I think would fit the plot best. Brunnhilde seemed an altogether more practical and pragmatic character to me, unlikely to be drawn to the intellectual or intangible side of things. Whatever it was, it was rather sudden. >> Yes, I too was a bit puzzled B's feelings for G -- mainly because there seemed to be more significance to this than I was getting. I mean, I could understand her admiration for G's character, even being attracted to G, but the "I gave up my god for you" seemed a bit ove the top. In the above context, it underscores B's giving up the warlike, greedy and other negative aspects of Odin's current reign. Now that you mention it, the "I think I love her" comment about Xena from the maidens might be more like "felios." Mind you, the setting wasn't Greece, but it would be interesting if all the above forms of love were being represented -- possibly and most notably in B's affections for Gabrielle. Certainly B's eternal flame acheived a level of love that even Xena never reached. (And, no, T, I'm not saying Xena should have. I just think it's interesting how many folks in this trilogy were willing to sacrifice everything for love of Gabrielle. Another pre-indicator of her multi-faceted new role after FIN?) - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 23:12:55 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: <> In a message dated 05/21/2002 7:03:45 PM Central Daylight Time, cande@sunlink.net writes: << I don't know if it has ever beed really put to the test to this extent but basically I feel Xena's not an idealist. She do'll good but it's for practical reasons not for some higher ideal. Gabrielle is much more of an idealist - she would die for a cause. Xena I don't think ever would - she has to have some kind of concret outcome for her sacrifice. >> Gotta agree that's how I've seen it too. Gabby, Solan, Eve -- Xena will do whatever it takes, even if angels get in the way. Other than that, it's like she said to Najara -- she needs to know the specifics of what the mission is supposed to accomplish. Personal and practical. - - Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 23:12:54 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Reflections on the Ring <> In a message dated 05/21/2002 1:57:19 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: << On Tuesday 21 May 2002 02:12, Richan@aol.com wrote: > cr writes: > > Well, IMO, nobody was ever 'outed' > > more thoroughly than Brunnhilde when she was talking about proving her > > love > > > > for Gabby. I thought even my straight and subtext-oblivious wife would > > raise an eyebrow at that, but presumably she regarded Brunnhilde's > > sentiments > > as spiritual rather than tangible. > > We talked about this in my Humanities class. We discussed the three types > of love as defined by the Ancient Greeks: agape, felios, and Eros; where > agape > is all encompassing love usually reserved for one's god, felios is love of > friend, > and Eros is sexually based. Brunnhilde said, "I gave up my god for you." > The consensus in the Humanities class was that Brunnhilde had agape for > Gabrielle. Well, that's not the impression I got, though it's the interpretation I think would fit the plot best. Brunnhilde seemed an altogether more practical and pragmatic character to me, unlikely to be drawn to the intellectual or intangible side of things. Whatever it was, it was rather sudden. >> Yes, I too was a bit puzzled B's feelings for G -- mainly because there seemed to be more significance to this than I was getting. I mean, I could understand her admiration for G's character, even being attracted to G, but the "I gave up my god for you" seemed a bit ove the top. In the above context, it underscores B's giving up the warlike, greedy and other negative aspects of Odin's current reign. Now that you mention it, the "I think I love her" comment about Xena from the maidens might be more like "felios." Mind you, the setting wasn't Greece, but it would be interesting if all the above forms of love were being represented -- possibly and most notably in B's affections for Gabrielle. Certainly B's eternal flame acheived a level of love that even Xena never reached. (And, no, T, I'm not saying Xena should have. I just think it's interesting how many folks in this trilogy were willing to sacrifice everything for love of Gabrielle. Another pre-indicator of her multi-faceted new role after FIN?) - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #136 **************************************