From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #135 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Tuesday, May 21 2002 Volume 02 : Number 135 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] Reflections on the Ring [cr ] [chakram-refugees] <> ["Cheryl Ande" > ["Cheryl Ande" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [Mark & Denise ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [meredith ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [Mark & Denise ] RE: [chakram-refugees] Xena Live! Xena Lives! The Musical - A Review And Other Odd Bits ["bookdaft" > [meredith ] RE: [chakram-refugees] Xena Live! Xena Lives! The Musical - A Review And Other Odd Bits [mered] [chakram-refugees]: X:PW ep. clip in movie ["Cindy Medrano" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Reflections on the Ring *** Spoilers for , ,, , , ******** s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s The 'Ring' trilogy just played on NZ TV4, so I'll indulge in a couple of random reflections on it. Sorry if I'm repeating what's been said before. First, LoDuca shoulda got an Emmy for the music IMO. It's the only ep that rivals Sin Trade in the soundtrack stakes. (IMO of course!) On another list there was just a big debate about LL's comment on the FIN DVD about her character being 'outed'. Well, IMO, nobody was ever 'outed' more thoroughly than Brunnhilde when she was talking about proving her love for Gabby. I thought even my straight and subtext-oblivious wife would raise an eyebrow at that, but presumably she regarded Brunnhilde's sentiments as spiritual rather than tangible. ;) Still, I like Brunnhilde, which I think owes more to the way the actor played her than the writing. Same for Beowulf. The writing for them both was okay, nothing outstanding, and if they hadn't been so well cast I think I would have relegated them to the same status as - umm, what was Joxer's son called? Well, him. As it is, Britney Powell and Renato Bartolomei were good enough that I really liked their characters. Saved by good casting, I think. (Contrast that with, say, M'Lila in 'Destiny' - that was such an interesting role that it would have been quite difficult to cast an actor who 'killed' it. As it was, Ebonie Smith was marvellous in the role and just made it even better). The first meeting of all four - Xena, Gabs, Brunnhilde and Beowulf - was when B and B were declaring their intention to never leave Gabrielle. And though that was kinda sudden and hard to credit, the highlight for me was the 'tired' look Xena gave in the background. Beautiful acting by LL. There are times when she is just so good. Umm, and Grindl was a *much* more convincing monster than Gabs' grandson Dinsdale the Destroyer. Loved the fight at the end of 'The Ring' when Odin kept ducking wildy to dodge the low-flying chacky. And Xena in close-up when she put the ring on ("I'm out of options") was impressive. You could see the power flowing into her. Reminded me a little of Ares when he got his godhood back in Ten Little Warlords. One of those CGI-enhanced shots that comes into the category of art, IMO. What else? Those sky backgrounds to the flying horses. Were they real? (I know the horses were blue-screened, but what I mean is, was the sky as filmed or was there some CGI enhancement going on?) They were certainly visually gorgeous. In fact I'd say the Ring was an excellent example of the proper use of special effects - all of 'em necessary, and all fitted seamlessly into the story. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 19:04:32 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] <> # # # # # ## # # This is one of my favorite episodes. It just chock full of great subtext moments and it's a good hurt comfort story (a subgenre of fan fiction where one of the girls is hurt and the other takes care of her). It is a favorite of many subtextors but for those who are more action oriented it has one the longest fight scenes in the series. Now underneath all the nifty mushy stuff we do have interesting character studies of both Xena and Gabrielle when confronted by the possibility that Gabrielle has been fatally wounded. As we all know the story involves the Persian invasion of Greece. Xena and Gabrielle have promised to hold off the Persians until a messenger can rouse the Athenian army. On their way to rally the militia at Tripolis they encounter a spy and an contingent of Persians. During the fight Gabrielle is wounded by a poison arrow. The spy is sent off with some false intelligence by Xena and the girls head for Tripolis for the antidote. At Tripolis there is no militia and no antidote. Xena takes Gabrielle to her former armory where Gabrielle takes a turn for the worse and it looks as if she may die from her wound. The interesting part of the story is how both woman react to this turn of events. Gabrielle is surprisingly fatalistic about her wound. She accepts that she will die if she does get help but if that help results in Xena breaking her promise to hold off the Persians, she would rather sacrifice herself for the greater good. Gabrielle is very committed to the abstract concept of the greater good. She understand the consequences if Xena fails to hold off the Persians. For her the fall of Greece would be a greater calamity than her own death. She therefore uses all her powers of persuasion to convince Xena to stay and fight. Gabrielle truly needs to use all her persuasive powers for Xena to stay. Xena's commitment to the abstract ideals of the greater good are not as strong as Gabrielle's. Xena's loyalties are to the people she loves. Three times Xena is ready to leave Greece to its fate and take Gabrielle to Thessalie for help. Each time Gabrielle must persuade Xena not to do it. Why does Xena listen to her? If this was season one or two I think Xena would have simply ignored Gabrielle but with the experiences of Illusia behind them, Xena has finally realized that Gabrielle has the right to choose her fate. Xena is uncertain about this decision but she honors Gabrielle's wishes. It goes against Xena's grain - to simply give up and accept death but if this is what Gabrielle has decided that this cause warrants her sacrifice so be it. And where Gabrielle goes so goes Xena - if Gabrielle plans to dies defending Greece so does Xena. Xena frees Argo and goes back to prepare for her epic battle against the Persians. I doubt if Gabrielle is fully aware of Xena's decision to follow her into death. Gabrielle vainly tries to persuade Xena to leave her behind if she has to escape from the Persians. She also warns Xena to be careful about a soldier dropping from the ceiling - something she saw in a prophetic dream. Gabrielle I think fully expects Xena to survive the battle - - it is only when Xena tells Gabby to pour hot oil on the Persians if they get by her does she realize that this may be their last battle. Of courser we don't have a last battle but we have really good one. Xena fights the Persians to a stand still and sends them running home with a great line : "Tell them there are thousands like me in Greece." Xena also have found that the antidote to the poison - the archers rather practically carry the medicine on them. Gabrielle is saved and our heroines take a well deserved nap. Nice Light moments: Gabrielle showing Xena her little stick Xena figure tucked in securely in her bosom. True to life friendship moment: Xena's glee at Gabrielle's following on her face as she tries to do Xena's flip. Uh Oh moment: When delirious Gabrielle says "Take me with you. I want to be like you." and Xena answers "And I want to be like you" I guess they finally got their wish. In FIN Xena sacrifices herself for the greater good and Gabrielle goes to be the new Warrior Princess. Be careful what you wish for. One more FIN reference: It was roundly debated why Gabrielle never dumped the ashes in fountain and saved Xena. OAAA certainly demonstrates that Gabrielle does understand a sacrifice made for the greater good. It's a concept she was willing to dies for - so why would she deny Xena that freedom? CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 19:17:04 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] <> # # # # ## # Forgiven is a nice little episode. It fails mainly because it is so predictable. You know the bratty girl will see the light. The bad boy the girl loves will be really bad. Nothing very interesting happens. Sherry Applegate is suitably obnoxious as Tara There are however some good moments. The fight between Gabrielle and Tara in the tavern is fun - its wonderfully excessive and ROC has a talent for being beaten up. Kados to the make-up and continuity people - we can actually watch Gab's scratched face and bitten ear get better as the episode progresses. Also I like the fact that Gabrielle invented Charades - I love Xena's bafflement at the game's allure. We also have a wonderful ending with Xena walking away into the setting sun - determined not to accept any man's forgiveness for things she cannot forgive in herself. It also has my favorite line from any Xena episode: While discussing Tara: Gabrielle to Xena: "What excatly do you see in her?" Xena: "To be honest she reminds me a lot of myself at that age." Gabrielle horrified: " By the gods Xena, I knew you evil but you were obnoxious too!" CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 20:58:50 -0500 From: Mark & Denise Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> Cheryl Ande wrote: > # > # > # > # > ## > # > Forgiven is a nice little episode. It fails mainly because it is so > predictable. You know the bratty girl will see the light. The bad boy the > girl loves will be really bad. Nothing very interesting happens. Sherry > Applegate is suitably obnoxious as Tara I've only seen Sherry Applegate in the two Xena eps. Is her voice/accent really that annoying? > > > There are however some good moments. The fight between Gabrielle and Tara in > the tavern is fun - its wonderfully excessive and ROC has a talent for being > beaten up. Funny, when you say that the fight scene between Meg and Gabrielle! But what comes to mind as well as few scenes later was Meg's comment to Xena, 'Your little friend just kicked my butt!' > Also I like the fact that Gabrielle invented Charades - I love Xena's bafflement > at the game's allure. ROC's little squeals in that scene just cracked me up! > We also have a wonderful ending with Xena walking away into the setting sun - > determined not to accept any man's > forgiveness for things she cannot forgive in herself. I am always amazed at what the lighting crew can do to a scene! That scene looked so.... perfect! I remember a bunch of comments after the first airing about the graphic nature of Gabrielle's 'tough love' with Tara. Don't think that would go over so well nowadays, huh? Mark ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 21:54:44 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> Hi, Mark responded: >I've only seen Sherry Applegate in the two Xena eps. Is her voice/accent >really >that annoying? Shiri Appleby is her name. :) And yes, her voice/accent *are* that annoying (says the _Roswell_ fan who is nevertheless sad to see that show go). ============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth ============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://www.smoe.org/meth/muzak.html ============================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 21:10:53 -0500 From: Mark & Denise Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> Cheryl Ande wrote: > # > # > # > # > # > ## > # > # > > I hate snipping so much, because this was such a good ep and you are bringing up so many good points. In the spirit of no over quoting though, I'm only leaving portions I'm commenting on. Good Chakramite, huh? > > The interesting part of the story is how both woman react to this turn of > events. Gabrielle is surprisingly fatalistic about her wound. She accepts > that she will die if she does get help but if that help results in Xena > breaking her promise to hold off the Persians, she would rather sacrifice > herself for the greater good. Gabrielle is very committed to the abstract > concept of the greater good. She understand the consequences if Xena fails to > hold off the Persians. For her the fall of Greece would be a greater calamity > than her own death. She therefore uses all her powers of persuasion to > convince Xena to stay and fight. Wasn't this the first time Xena disregards the 'Greater Good' theme because of Gabrielle being in trouble? I did kind of find it ironic that Gabrielle was the one being so stoic and realistic regarding the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the one. Oops..... wrong show! > And where Gabrielle goes so goes Xena - if Gabrielle plans to dies defending > Greece so does Xena. Xena frees Argo and goes back to prepare for her epic > battle against the Persians. I doubt if Gabrielle is fully aware of Xena's > decision to follow her into death. Gabrielle vainly tries to persuade Xena to > leave her behind if she has to escape from the Persians. She also warns Xena > to be careful about a soldier dropping from the ceiling - something she saw in > a prophetic dream. Gabrielle I think fully expects Xena to survive the battle > - it is only when Xena tells Gabby to pour hot oil on the Persians if they get > by her does she realize that this may be their last battle. An interesting point I thought was the scenes showing Xena's attention to detail as she laid out weapons and traps. Mark ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 14:12:26 +1200 From: NZJester Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Herc in mummy book At 09:04 pm 19/05/2002 EDT, Boeotian wrote: >one of the best jobs the boys from WETA, that's the special effects company >down in Wellington, did with the mummy. I mean, it looked great on TV, >but in person I think it scared the hell out of me! ... this thing was spooky- >looking ... The episode was just perfect for Halloween." (Wiesbrot, 1988) I remember watching a TV special on the making of the Peter Jackson film that stared Michael J Fox "The Frightners" and seeing the Evil Centaur Dagnine Costume hanging on the wall of the Weta workshop from the Ep of Xena we found out she had a Son when the where showing some of the items from the Frightners Weta has apparently been used a lot by Pac Ren Weta was started by and is owned by Peter Jackson and was very busy on the Lord of the Rings Movies - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Catch ya later NZJester - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 22:32:53 -0400 From: "bookdaft" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] Xena Live! Xena Lives! The Musical - A Review And Other Odd Bits Hi all, This is in response to some questions Meredith posed a few weeks earlier. I would have posted sooner, but it took a bit of time to get the turnaround response from Di Bauden, then I went to see Xena Lives again this last weekend. At any rate, here are some replies: >Afterwards we were wondering whether that was 100% Di Bauden's work, or if she had spliced in actual shots from the episode. Anybody know for sure? I asked Di that question and this was her response: Thanks for the question. I did use some special effects footage already filmed, but yes, I did do all the editing myself. I filmed an earthquake in addition to Amy and Elizabeth's footage. Some of Alti's death footage was filmed as well >Oh gods, Gaybriel had me on the *floor*. He was *perfect*!! Cute, too. I was wishing I could get a photo of him to bring back to one of my gay-boy friends back home. Beginning with the weekend of May 17, there is another actor playing Gaybriel, John La Guradia. Di also added this comment in her respose to me: With Alexandra Billings coming for the last weeks of the extension, the show will bring out yet even more energy! I can't wait! Ill have more on his performance in a separate post, as well as Alex Billings. It may be more in the form of a mini-review. >I was kind of lost by the selection of farm animals as Androgyny's followers, though. It didn't really matter because they were still hilarious, but I guess that beyond the sheep, the symbolism >was lost on me. There may be some allegorical meaning to the barnyard animals; we tend to try to make some symbolic sense of everything in stories and plays. But according to Elizabeth Laidlaw, during the Chicago Bardcon, Claudia Allen, Xena Lives playwright, used the animals for their joke potential. Originally, Claudia had meant to set the show in Egypt and would have used Egyptian animals, such as a cat, instead. She apparently thought a sheep, a pig and a chicken were more humorous. One of my friends pointed out that all three animals can be viewed as victims (all can be eaten), and their involvement in Androgynys movement is about personal empowerment. bd ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 22:33:35 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> Hi, Cheryl commented: > This is one of my favorite episodes. Ooh, yes. It's in the top 5 all time for me, no question. It was one of the first eps I found myself watching over and over even while the season was still going on. I thought both women acted in telling ways in this ep, and IMO Gabrielle came out of it looking much stronger than Xena. Gabrielle appears to have her priorities straight -- in her worldview, the needs of the many *do* outweigh the needs of the one (I'm not afraid to mix universes here, it fits ;), so she's willing to die if it means saving all of Greece from invasion. Xena, though, is totally willing to chuck Greece to the Persian wolves if it means not losing Gabrielle. This is a theme that recurs later on in the series. > And where Gabrielle goes so goes Xena - if Gabrielle plans to dies defending >Greece so does Xena. Xena frees Argo and goes back to prepare for her epic >battle against the Persians. That is *such* a moving little scene. Argo obviously knows what's up, and isn't too thrilled about it herself. > I doubt if Gabrielle is fully aware of Xena's >decision to follow her into death. I don't think so. If she were, surely she'd have tried to talk Xena out of it. >She also warns Xena >to be careful about a soldier dropping from the ceiling - something she saw in >a prophetic dream. This is the only iffy thing about this episode ... that "I have the power of prophecy" thing comes straight out of left field. I understand that the line as quoted was in the original draft of _Sins Of The Past_ and ended up getting cut prior to airing, and writers O'Neill and Tobin didn't check the video before they went to the script to quote the line. But why was it allowed to stay in there? And since it was, why was ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ever brought up about Gabrielle's supposed "gift of prophecy" again??? It could have come in very handy in subsequent episodes. >Of courser we don't have a last battle but we have really good one. Xena >fights the Persians to a stand still and sends them running home with a great >line : "Tell them there are thousands like me in Greece." "Go home. There are thousands more like me." That's my all-time favorite line of the series. (Other favorite line: "You still owe me a new pair of boots." ) That entire fight scene was amazing, with the exception of those stoopid "boing" sound effects when Xena bounced around off the spear literally taking out Persians left and right. (Whoever was responsible for that in the foley room deserved to be slapped soundly.) The fight scene is also a prime example of the all-important Code Of The Warrior When Fighting Xena: "Get her ... ONE AT A TIME!!" :) >Uh Oh moment: When delirious Gabrielle says "Take me with you. I want to be >like you." and Xena answers "And I want to be like you" I guess they finally >got their wish. In FIN Xena sacrifices herself for the greater good and >Gabrielle goes to be the new Warrior Princess. Be careful what you wish for. Oooh, *excellent* point. Amazing what pops up in hindsight, isn't it? ============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth ============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://www.smoe.org/meth/muzak.html ============================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 22:39:53 -0400 From: meredith Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] Xena Live! Xena Lives! The Musical - A Review And Other Odd Bits Hi, bookdaft responded: >This is in response to some questions Meredith posed a few weeks earlier. Oh wow, thank you!! I certainly wasn't expecting to get answers from the source. This is so cool! :) >Beginning with the weekend of May 17, there is another actor playing >Gaybriel, John La Guradia. Di also added this comment in her respose to me: >With Alexandra Billings coming for the last weeks of the extension, the >show will bring out yet even more energy! I can't wait! Wow. I wish I could get back to Chicago to see it again before it closes for good, but that's just not in the cards. >There may be some allegorical meaning to the barnyard animals; we tend to >try to make some symbolic sense of everything in stories and plays. But >according to Elizabeth Laidlaw, during the Chicago Bardcon, Claudia Allen, >Xena Lives playwright, used the animals for their joke potential. I can live with that. :) They were funny ... and actually are funnier in hindsight, now that I know there's not supposed to be any "there" there. :) >One of my friends pointed out that >all three animals can be viewed as victims (all can be eaten), and their >involvement in Androgynys movement is about personal empowerment. This is a good point, particularly in view of Xena's mutterings about "stir fry" and the like. Thanks again for the info, I really appreciate it! ============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth ============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://www.smoe.org/meth/muzak.html ============================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 23:12:36 -0500 From: "Cindy Medrano" Subject: [chakram-refugees]: X:PW ep. clip in movie hi everyone, i'm not sure if anyone's posted this but there's a clip from one of the episodes where Xena is pregnant and still fighting in her black leather pants and coat in the movie 'About a Boy'. I've seen stuff like this in television shows but not in a new release movie, that I know of anyway. It was pretty cool watching a few fight scenes of Xena and Gabrielle in the middle of the movie. I was quite surprised actually. Anyway, thought I'd pass this on. ~Cindy~ _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #135 **************************************