From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #130 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Thursday, May 16 2002 Volume 02 : Number 130 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] The Bitter Suite [cr ] [chakram-refugees] More for "ANYthing New Zealandish" devotees ["Daniel ] [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #129 [] Re: [chakram-refugees] Law & Order - "Xena" [meredith ] Re: [chakram-refugees] The Bitter Suite [IfeRae@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 20:19:14 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The Bitter Suite On Wednesday 15 May 2002 05:27, cande@sunlink.net wrote: > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > > This is one of the most imaginative episodes of the series and also one of > the most controversial. It was a big risk to tie up a major plot > development with an orginal operetta. It's a concept that you either > accept or you find slightly absurd and unstatisfying. I personally love > this episode - the music is very good, the costumes wonderful, the sets and > the SFX terrific (I love the chariot pulled by the sphinxes). I'd read the spoilers so was expecting the musical - but I still found it highly disconcerting. The contrast between the Gabdrag and the fairy-tale world of Illusia _nearly_ lost me. > Lets's begin with the stark and violent opening. The extreme violence of > the opening and especially the gabdrag came under intense criticism by > fans. All of people saw the actions of both Xena and Gabrielle as being > out of character. Yes it is out of character but that's the point. Both > women have been so twisted by hate, guilt, and blame that they do act out > of character. > > Xena racked by pain and grief can't find anyway to deal with her emotions > except through violence - this loss of control is what Xena has always > feared and it happens most often when family is hurt (Ties That Bind). The > self-control she has spent years developing shatters when Solon is murdered > and Ares gives her the push she needs to let loose the homicidal rage that > is a part of Xena's character. He gives her someone to focus that rage on > and Xena so despirate for release seizes on it and off she goes to kill > Gabrielle. I thought there maybe wasn't quite enough 'build-up' - but then, showing half-an-hour's worth of Xena brooding and getting worked on by Ares would have been more convincing but wouldn't have made good TV. > Back at the Amazon camp, Gabrielle is in just as desperate straits. She is > dying of guilt and grief. To survive she too must find a way to survive. > Callisto comes to her in a hallucination - like Ares did for Xena, she > gives Gabrielle a focus for hate - Xena. Xena's failure is the reason for > all of Gabrielle's pain - does Gabby believe this probably not completely > but it gives her a reason to survive. I think we're supposed to conclude from the scene in the Amazon hut that Gabby had actually decided to kill Xena. But I don't think she could have brought herself to do it until Xena gave her a bit of encouragement. > Solon however saves them. In the symbolic world of Illusia both women come > to terms with their pain. Xena is ironically guided throw this land by a > wise and compassionate Callisto, fittingly enough because Callisto has just > told her that vengence is hollow. I think the Ares that appeared to Xena in the 'real' world was the real Ares. Callisto I wasn't so sure about, but on reflection, she is a god, and her motivation could well have been to cause Xena more grief by having Gabby attack her. So, 'by symmetry', I think that was the real Callisto. However, Ares and Callisto in Illusia were, I'm sure, illusions. (snip) > > With the two women still stubbonly bent on hate and recrimmination, Solon > ups the ante. Captured by Dahak's flames (note Gabrielle still cries out > to Xena and Xena tries valiantly to save her - all hope for them is not > lost - they still care and relie on each other)they are transported to > their worst nightmares - Gabrielle changed to Dahak alter covered in > Meridian's blood and Xena on Caesar's cross. Before thme appear the images > of those whose lives are ruled by hate, Callisto, Ares, Caesar, and > Kraftstar and spector bluntly tells them that their real enemy is hate > itself. Indeed as the women watch in horror the demons they have created, > evil Xena and Gabrielle, appear to kill them. The women come to their > sense they once again embrace their love and forgive each other. I thought Xena and Gabby looked kinda cool with all-black eyes. ;) That was very effective. > Freed from their hate and the lies they have told themselves they are > freed. Gabrielle can pass through the cleansing water but Xena cannot. > She still has not been completely truthful. She must confess her last > secrets to Gabrielle and Solon. Xena confesses that she has killed Ming > Tien and that she is Solon's mother. She asks for their forgiveness - a > forgiveness that is really less for the lies themselves then the motives > behind the lies - Xena askes them to forgive her for her fear that kept her > from revealing her true self to them and the root of that fear was that if > they saw her true nature they could not love her. Once Xena confesses she > sees that both solon and Gabrielle do love her true self and can pass > through the waters. She is reunited with a loving Solon and Gabrielle. I thought that was musically the best part of the episode. And LL does look good even in a sack. (As I said about The Debt. Still true ;) LL has a lovely voice. Thanks for your episode reviews, btw. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 02:04:03 -0500 From: "Daniel T. Miller" Subject: [chakram-refugees] More for "ANYthing New Zealandish" devotees The cover story of May/June issue National Geographic Traveler is on New Zealand. Just glanced through on the stands and seems to specifically about touring the South Island-- - --hey, wait never mind. Just found the web site. This issue is already up. Oooh, and a "New Zealand web exclusive photo gallery." http://www.nationalgeographic.com/traveler/ ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 08:53:18 -0400 From: Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #129 Ife wrote I saw the parallel you spoke of, but for a different reason. .... Both times, Xena essentially turned her back on two key sources of light in her life, each time losing herself to darkness afterwards. Of course, in MI, she lost both sources simultaneously, I didn't see it like that but that is an excellant point. Yes she is turning her back on the light that is represented by Gabrielle and Solon. To be honest I hadn't really thought the last scene in OOW until answering cr's post but then I really saw irony in the last scene of MI. Of course as we see in The Bitter Suite Solon's light is not lost but certainly Gabrielle's light is burning low of both women. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 19:04:22 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The Bitter Suite cr wrote: " I'd read the spoilers so was expecting the musical - but I still found it highly disconcerting. The contrast between the Gabdrag and the fairy-tale world of Illusia _nearly_ lost me. " Yes it is a very unusualy stucture a bit like the Wizard of OZ - from drab and boring Kansas to colorful exciting OZ, of course without trying murder anyone except for Toto perhaps. We go from very stark reality to bright and deceptively cheery Illusia. It was interesting that no one really tried to explain why everyone was singing. You either accepted it or you didn't. > " I think the Ares that appeared to Xena in the 'real' world was the real Ares. Callisto I wasn't so sure about, but on reflection, she is a god, and her motivation could well have been to cause Xena more grief by having Gabby attack her. So, 'by symmetry', I think that was the real Callisto." Nope I still think Callisto was Gabrielle's subconcious. As far as I can remember Callisto didn't get out from under the ubiquitous rocks until the Hercules episode Armagedon Now. I may be wrong " I thought that was musically the best part of the episode. And LL does look good even in a sack. (As I said about The Debt. Still true ;)" I have to say I liked the song in The Hall of Echos best then Hate Is The Star. The Forgive Me song has some good lines and Lucy sings it well but I though some the lyrics were just a little weak - the music is wonderful. And yes Lucy wears basic sack with a nice sense of style. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 22:09:52 -0500 From: Mark & Denise Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The Bitter Suite Cheryl Ande wrote: > cr wrote: > > Yes it is a very unusualy stucture a bit like the Wizard of OZ - from drab > and boring Kansas to colorful exciting OZ, of course without trying murder > anyone except for Toto perhaps. We go from very stark reality to bright and > deceptively cheery Illusia. It was interesting that no one really tried to > explain why everyone was singing. You either accepted it or you didn't. I went into it with no expectations whatsoever. My first impression was [being a guy] 'huh?', but after patiently reading all the posts that followed after the original airing I began to get really captivated by it! > > > " I think the Ares that appeared to Xena in the 'real' world was the real > Ares. Callisto I wasn't so sure about, but on reflection, she is a god, and > her motivation could well have been to cause Xena more grief by having > Gabby attack her. So, 'by symmetry', I think that was the real Callisto." I tend to think she was an illusion as well. I find it hard to believe that the 'real' Callisto could ever be so soft spoken and analytical. For that matter, I could believe Xena's Ares to be in her head as well if we are to consider both X & G going through parallel paths of inner turmoil and anger after MI! > Nope I still think Callisto was Gabrielle's subconcious. As far as I can > remember Callisto didn't get out from under the ubiquitous rocks until the > Hercules episode Armagedon Now. I may be wrong > > I have to say I liked the song in The Hall of Echos best then Hate Is The > Star. The Forgive Me song has some good lines and Lucy sings it well but I > though some the lyrics were just a little weak - the music is wonderful. > And yes Lucy wears basic sack with a nice sense of style. I'd have to say kudos to everyone involved in the production! The lavishness of the sets, costumes [while always great to me] were exceptional in this ep! The symbolism regarding tarot cards was great as well. I well remember the *volumes* of posts after the original airing with everyone analyzing each and every scene, costume, comment, etc. Not that I minded at all of course . I forget now who sang for ROC, but I thought she was 'right on' with her voice and inflections. LL, of course, I could listen to for days on end. I was shocked at Kevin Smith's voice; it struck me as both powerful and controlled. Mark ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 23:08:45 EDT From: KLOSSNER9@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] Law & Order - "Xena" I just saw the new episode of Law & Order. The murder victim was a woman doctor who went to drugs-and-sex parties under the name "Xena." She was called that several times in the first few minutes of the story until her real name was discovered. The older, sarcastic detective once called her "the warrior princess." It turned out she was dealing oxy-codone (spelling?) which led to her murder by mobsters. Boeotian ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 23:09:06 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The Bitter Suite Hi, Mark commented: >I forget now who sang for ROC, but I thought she was 'right on' with her voice >and inflections. Sorry, but I thought she sounded *nothing* like ROC. It was painful to hear. Someone with ROC's timbre of speaking voice would never have a soprano singing voice -- they should have gotten an alto, then maybe I could've bought it. (I was just reminded of this at Xena Night last night, as one of the episodes was _Forget Me Not_, which features a flashback to the scene where Xena and Gabrielle sing their apology duet in Dahak's temple.) > LL, of course, I could listen to for days on end. I was >shocked at Kevin Smith's voice; it struck me as both powerful and controlled. I'm with you there, on both counts. ============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth ============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://www.smoe.org/meth/muzak.html ============================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 23:25:01 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Law & Order - "Xena" Hi, Boeotian reported: >I just saw the new episode of Law & Order. The murder victim was a >woman doctor who went to drugs-and-sex parties under the name "Xena." >She was called that several times in the first few minutes of the story until >her real name was discovered. The older, sarcastic detective once >called her "the warrior princess." It turned out she was dealing >oxy-codone (spelling?) which led to her murder by mobsters. Oxycontin? Funny, I was just watching this week's episode of _The Simpsons_, at the beginning of which Lisa's butch gym teacher swears "by Xena" that she's going to turn all of the second graders into gymnasts. This comes right after she's had a little duel with Principal Skinner using pens, complete with clashing sword noises straight out of X:WP. Pretty funny. ============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth ============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://www.smoe.org/meth/muzak.html ============================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 00:06:16 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The Bitter Suite In a message dated 5/14/2002 12:27:58 PM Central Daylight Time, cande@sunlink.net writes: > Long post - sorry I'm so wordy. No problem! Excellent retrospective view for me. One of the most "objective" and insightful reviews I can remember. Made me want to see BS again -- soon! - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #130 **************************************