From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #129 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Wednesday, May 15 2002 Volume 02 : Number 129 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] [chakram-refugees] The Bitter Suite [] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [IfeRae@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 01:49:53 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Tuesday 14 May 2002 10:23, Cheryl Ande wrote: > Cheryl wrote: It's a scene that echoes that one in Orphan of War when > Xena gives up Solan - Xena then walked away into violence and hate and now > she is doing the > same. > > cr wrote: No, I can't see any parallel there. > > As I see it repeats two scenes in OOW once when she walks away from Solan > as an infant and then again at the end of OOW when she walks away when he > is a boy. Both times she gave up her son voluntarily. This time, however, > she has him snatched away just as she is about to claim him. She has to > walk away from him again - not because she wants to protect him but because > she has failed him. Everything she has every feared has happened - he is > destroyed because of her - the enemies she made in Callisto and Hope and in > an odd way because of her friendship with Gabrielle. I just find the last > scene ironic. > > CherylA Yes, there are certainly similarities, now you've pointed them out. And they definitely add irony to the scene. TPTB are good at that. But, the circumstances are so different, I don't think there's any real parallel. Just IMO. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 13:27:17 -0400 From: Subject: [chakram-refugees] The Bitter Suite # # # # # # # This is one of the most imaginative episodes of the series and also one of the most controversial. It was a big risk to tie up a major plot development with an orginal operetta. It's a concept that you either accept or you find slightly absurd and unstatisfying. I personally love this episode - the music is very good, the costumes wonderful, the sets and the SFX terrific (I love the chariot pulled by the sphinxes). Lets's begin with the stark and violent opening. The extreme violence of the opening and especially the gabdrag came under intense criticism by fans. All of people saw the actions of both Xena and Gabrielle as being out of character. Yes it is out of character but that's the point. Both women have been so twisted by hate, guilt, and blame that they do act out of character. Xena racked by pain and grief can't find anyway to deal with her emotions except through violence - this loss of control is what Xena has always feared and it happens most often when family is hurt (Ties That Bind). The self-control she has spent years developing shatters when Solon is murdered and Ares gives her the push she needs to let loose the homicidal rage that is a part of Xena's character. He gives her someone to focus that rage on and Xena so despirate for release seizes on it and off she goes to kill Gabrielle. Back at the Amazon camp, Gabrielle is in just as desperate straits. She is dying of guilt and grief. To survive she too must find a way to survive. Callisto comes to her in a hallucination - like Ares did for Xena, she gives Gabrielle a focus for hate - Xena. Xena's failure is the reason for all of Gabrielle's pain - does Gabby believe this probably not completely but it gives her a reason to survive. When the two women meet there is a violent explosion. Xena drags Gabrielle from the Amazons, is about to hurl her into the seas when Gabby fights back. Gabby enraged flings herself at Xena and both tople into the seas. Their guilt and hatred have destroyed their love and now their lives. Solon however saves them. In the symbolic world of Illusia both women come to terms with their pain. Xena is ironically guided throw this land by a wise and compassionate Callisto, fittingly enough because Callisto has just told her that vengence is hollow. She is tempted to return to the world of violence by her adoring troops and a seductive Ares. Gabrielle longing to return a time of innocence arrives in "sunny Potedia." Both women are disappointed. The Potdians despite their overt cheerfulness are malicious and violent - sending Gabrielle to her death. Xena, egged on by Ares, kills Gabrielle only to discover that it doesn'r ease her pain and suffers profound remorse. Also chagrinned embarrassment when a very much alive and pissed off Gabrielle appears (I love that scene - Lucy looks like a naughty child caugh with her hand in the cookie jar). So the two women, discovering that the safety and comfort of their former lives are an illusion, go onto confront the lies they have told themselves. In the hall of echos they honestly talk of their pain and grief but they cannot still talk to each other. When they confront each other there still is the blame and the lies they have told themselves about the other's guilt and they cannot undertand the pain the other is in. With the two women still stubbonly bent on hate and recrimmination, Solon ups the ante. Captured by Dahak's flames (note Gabrielle still cries out to Xena and Xena tries valiantly to save her - all hope for them is not lost - they still care and relie on each other)they are transported to their worst nightmares - Gabrielle changed to Dahak alter covered in Meridian's blood and Xena on Caesar's cross. Before thme appear the images of those whose lives are ruled by hate, Callisto, Ares, Caesar, and Kraftstar and spector bluntly tells them that their real enemy is hate itself. Indeed as the women watch in horror the demons they have created, evil Xena and Gabrielle, appear to kill them. The women come to their sense they once again embrace their love and forgive each other. Freed from their hate and the lies they have told themselves they are freed. Gabrielle can pass through the cleansing water but Xena cannot. She still has not been completely truthful. She must confess her last secrets to Gabrielle and Solon. Xena confesses that she has killed Ming Tien and that she is Solon's mother. She asks for their forgiveness - a forgiveness that is really less for the lies themselves then the motives behind the lies - Xena askes them to forgive her for her fear that kept her from revealing her true self to them and the root of that fear was that if they saw her true nature they could not love her. Once Xena confesses she sees that both solon and Gabrielle do love her true self and can pass through the waters. She is reunited with a loving Solon and Gabrielle. Does the episode provide a complete resolution of the rift? Well no. Gabrielle's problems get glossed over a bit. This is epsiode is really about Xena, as should be expected since it is a world created by Solon, and I think they do pretty ggod job resolving Xena's problems. Gabrielle will still be grappling with her guilt in Forget Me Not and through most of the 4th season. But it is a beginning for a resolution of the rift which isn't finally resolved un Ides Of March. Both women have decided to be more hones with each other at episodes end. Best line: Ares - Ding dong the bitch is dead. Best sexy moment: Ares and Xena's tango. Scary moment - The creepy Potedians. Favorite character: The happy Ares warriors. Long post - sorry I'm so wordy. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 22:09:12 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> In a message dated 5/13/2002 5:21:41 PM Central Daylight Time, cande@sunlink.net writes: @ @ @ @ @ @ > Cheryl wrote: It's a scene that echoes that one in Orphan of War when Xena > gives up Solan - Xena then walked away into violence and hate and now she is > doing the > same. > > cr wrote: No, I can't see any parallel there. > > As I see it repeats two scenes in OOW once when she walks away from Solan as > an infant and then again at the end of OOW when she walks away when he is a > boy. Both times she gave up her son voluntarily. This time, however, she > has him snatched away just as she is about to claim him. She has to walk > away from him again - not because she wants to protect him but because she > has failed him. Everything she has every feared has happened - he is > destroyed because of her - the enemies she made in Callisto and Hope and in > an odd way because of her friendship with Gabrielle. I just find the last > scene ironic. > Now, this is amazing. I saw the parallel you spoke of, but for a different reason. I thought you were initially comparing what happened after Xena walked away from infant Solan, with what happened when she walked away from Gabrielle after Solan's funeral. Both times, Xena essentially turned her back on two key sources of light in her life, each time losing herself to darkness afterwards. Of course, in MI, she lost both sources simultaneously, in part because one unwittingly helped let the other be snuffed out. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #129 **************************************