From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #121 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Tuesday, May 7 2002 Volume 02 : Number 121 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] swords [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] [chakram-refugees] 'Kiwi Week' Hits America [NZJester ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Canon (was Re: Xena and her sidekick) [IfeRae@aol.] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [IfeRae@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] OT: Ephiny's Namesake [Meredith Tarr ] [chakram-refugees] Admin Note: Excessive Quoting [Meredith Tarr > ["Cheryl Ande" > [HawkFalco@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] Renee in Cherry Hill UPDATE ["Creation (Sharon Delaney] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 20:03:45 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] swords On Monday 06 May 2002 10:16, S. Wilson wrote: > --- cr wrote: > > I see that Livia's sword (one of 'em, anyway) is up for auction on > > Ebay and > > currently fetching about 5 times the price of Virgil's. > > > > Does this prove it's better to be an almost universally hated baddie > > than a > > nice guy? ;-) > > Depends. Would Joxer's sword (did?) fetch much? No idea. And there's no Joxer's sword listed on Ebay in the last three months (I think they just keep past results for three months). Dunno about Yahoo, I can *never* get any sense whatsoever out of Yahoo's website so I can never check past auctions there. > And is it a good thing > to be Joxer's offspring, if you're selling your sword? Lots of ppl > love/dislike Joxer for one reason or another. > I think people's estimation of Virgil is probably quite independent of what they may think of Joxer. Like Xena and Eve. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 20:26:27 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Monday 06 May 2002 14:51, Cheryl Ande wrote: > P > W > A > I > S > E > > HESTIA > (snip) > > Ted Raimi is also very good in this episode. It is a hoot when he waltzes > into Meg's Place and all the working girls are ecstatic to see him. I find > the scene rather sweet for some reason - here at least Joxer is the hero > and I can imagine the girls' affection for him is real. I'm sure he is a > big improvement over their regular clients with his sweet funny nature. Oddly enough I found that almost embarrassingly vulgar, specially the Joxer song. Very strange, I'm not usually bothered by that sort of thing. OTOH I was quite impressed that Meg's girls - umm, 'defeated' the temple guards with such ease. > This episode is Lucy Lawless's comedic tour de force. She is brilliant as > the militant virgin, Priestess Leah. With her Barbara Walters lisp she is > hysterical. She is the epitome of the dignified woman placed in the most > undignified of positions - saved by warrior non-virgins, hidden in a > brothel where people use whips and sheep in very peculiar manners, > betrayed by a colleague - she nonetheless muddles through. It's of course > a send up of the mother superior stereotype but it's an affectionate send > up - Leah may have her prejudices when we first meet her but by episode's > end she has learned tolerance. Lucy's Meg is back - still not terribly > bright - she's a magnate for any guy trying usurp a throne or religion- but > in this episode her heart is the right place. It's a pleasure to watch > Lucy's physically play her three characters - Meg slump shouldered, walking > with a kind of gangly gate, Leah walks with demure steps but is still a > trifle clumsy, and Xena who strides through a scene with confidence. It is > no wonder that Gabrielle when confronted by the three identically dressed > characters has no trouble telling them apart. Lucy doesn't cheat either - > when Leah impersonates Meg impersonating Leah - the villain is fooled but > the audience isn't, the lisp is still there. > I'm always impressed by the way Lucy handled that sort of thing. She could easily have 'lost' the identity of the characters completely, but she didn't. I hadn't tried to figure out how she made them identifiable as you did there, but certainly it's quite easy to tell who's who most of the time - which is very creditable with the same actor playing all three roles. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 19:02:45 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Canon (was Re: Xena and her sidekick) On Sunday 05 May 2002 17:02, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: (Mucho snips) > > > > OK, we are *definitely* using different meanings of the word 'canon'. > > I was > > using it to mean 'facts explicitly stated on screen'. >> > > Um, that's what I was saying I thought you meant. > Correct. > > You're using it to mean - umm, I can't think of a precise definition, > > but > > I > > > guess it relates to my 'vision' of what and who Xena is. Based on the > > show > > > but including any inferences I may draw or imagine from it. (I'm not > > putting this very well I'm afraid).>> > > Yes you are. That's exactly what I'm asking. Except, I'm not saying what > "canon" means to me right now. I'm trying to figure out what it means to > *you.* I thought I was understanding the "explicit" part. I was asking if > you also meant the "vision" part. I believe you're saying "no" to the > latter. That's correct too. > > > > Well, certainly I do. I have a mental image of Xena, a sort of gestalt > > ( ooh > > another term to argue over :) built up from all the episodes, and the > > inferences I draw from them. > > > > Maybe I need to find another more explicit word than 'canon' to use for > > 'things which are explicitly stated on screen'.>> > > I have seen "canon" used with different meanings for different people. I > simply wanted to clarify how you meant it. It seems to mean what you > believe is explicitly done or said -- established, the "facts" -- without > interpretation. It is the basis for your interpretation -- your "vision." > For some people, "canon" seems to involve both the explicit and implicit > (at least to them), while you see the former as "facts" that can be > separate from (and a step preceding) the latter. Correct? > > -- Ife And correct again. So in my view, I and the most rabid Gabfundie should be able to agree exactly and without argument about the 'canon' of any particular episode, even though we might disagree wildly about what it 'means'. Having said that, of course, it's impossible to be totally objective about one's observations, so even the most basic 'facts' are subject to some disagreement - but it should, at least in theory, be minimal. I will say that the dictionary definition does *not* unequivocally support my use of 'canon' in this context. It gives a number of definitions, some of which tend towards mine and some of which tend towards the 'interpretation' meaning. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 08:26:00 +0100 From: "Ann Reddecliffe" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] swords >>I see that Livia's sword (one of 'em, anyway) is up for auction on Ebay and currently fetching about 5 times the price of Virgil's. Does this prove it's better to be an almost universally hated baddie than a nice guy? ;-) Thelonius ... wondering how much Perdycorpse's sword would have fetched. If he had one.>> I wondered how much the sword Callisto used to kill him would be worth? Ann ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 23:09:39 +1200 From: NZJester Subject: [chakram-refugees] 'Kiwi Week' Hits America Coverage of New Zealand on US prime-time television reached over 3.5 million households in North America last week. full story http://xtramsn.co.nz/travel/0,,8413-1377828,00.html - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Catch ya later NZJester - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 21:33:27 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] swords On Monday 06 May 2002 19:26, Ann Reddecliffe wrote: > >>I see that Livia's sword (one of 'em, anyway) is up for auction on Ebay > > and > currently fetching about 5 times the price of Virgil's. > Does this prove it's better to be an almost universally hated baddie than a > nice guy? ;-) > > Thelonius > ... wondering how much Perdycorpse's sword would have fetched. If he had > one.>> > > I wondered how much the sword Callisto used to kill him would be worth? > > Ann Callisto's sword? A lot, I would imagine. It was a very distinctive sword. I don't imagine Perdy's sad demise had much influence on the value, one way or the other. ;) Thelonius. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 14:26:42 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Canon (was Re: Xena and her sidekick) In a message dated 5/6/2002 2:12:53 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > So in my view, I and the most rabid Gabfundie should be able to agree > exactly > and without argument about the 'canon' of any particular episode, even > though > we might disagree wildly about what it 'means'. > > Having said that, of course, it's impossible to be totally objective about > one's observations, so even the most basic 'facts' are subject to some > disagreement - but it should, at least in theory, be minimal. > > I will say that the dictionary definition does *not* unequivocally support > my > use of 'canon' in this context. It gives a number of definitions, some of > > which tend towards mine and some of which tend towards the 'interpretation' > meaning. > Then we are on nearly the same page about that. Like you, I try to base my idea of "canon" on aspects (e.g., events, actions) most likely to be indisputable. But "canon" to me also includes interpretation of those "facts," since that's where I find the "meaning." - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 14:26:38 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> In a message dated 5/6/2002 2:12:53 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > On Monday 06 May 2002 14:51, Cheryl Ande wrote: > > P > > W > > A > > I > > S > > E > > > > HESTIA > > > (snip) Lucy doesn't cheat either - > > when Leah impersonates Meg impersonating Leah - the villain is fooled but > > the audience isn't, the lisp is still there. > > > > I'm always impressed by the way Lucy handled that sort of thing. She > could > easily have 'lost' the identity of the characters completely, but she didn't. > > I hadn't tried to figure out how she made them identifiable as you did there, > > but certainly it's quite easy to tell who's who most of the time - which is > very creditable with the same actor playing all three roles. > I haven't seen WPT in awhile, but it seems to me that there was a little something different in details like the way each character wore the shoulder straps on that white gown, maybe even the hair. If I'm not imagining that, somebody (the continuity person?) may have helped Lucy be consistent with the different distinctions she gave each role. Anyway, I agree that she did an amazingly good job, and it was fun being in "the know" when observors on screen couldn't tell the difference. One of my favorite scenes was when Leah (as Xena) did a very "girly" run behind Gabrielle when they were being chased. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 13:29:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Meredith Tarr Subject: [chakram-refugees] OT: Ephiny's Namesake Hi, As promised, in case anyone is interested in seeing what Ephiny's namesake the filly looks like, the photos are up at: http://www.sff.net/people/judith-tarr/DHF-babies.html Enjoy! Meredith meth@smoe.org Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 14:29:29 -0700 (PDT) From: "S. Wilson" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] swords > > And is it a good thing > > to be Joxer's offspring, if you're selling your sword? Lots of ppl > > love/dislike Joxer for one reason or another. > > > > I think people's estimation of Virgil is probably quite independent > of what > they may think of Joxer. Like Xena and Eve. > > cr Yeh, but... Eve didn't use Mom's sword. I like(d) Virgil but I think if I had the choice I'd shell out much quicker if I had the money, for Xena's sword, but just personally speaking, not really interested in anyone else's, except for maybe Ares' because I liked the design. S. Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 08:31:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Meredith Tarr Subject: [chakram-refugees] Admin Note: Excessive Quoting Hi, Since a couple of the people who had threatened to leave the list if quoting got out of hand again have unsubscribed in the past couple days, I guess it's time to post this administrative note once again. A couple threads here lately have generated some lively discussion, which is great -- I'm loving the discourse. But at the same time, when it's the main topic of discussion chances are good that we're all going to be able to follow what's going on. There is no need to quote the entire thread while inserting your comments somewhere in the middle of all those masses of carats. And snipping a line or three here and there isn't going to help matters any. *Please*, when quoting, only quote the sentence or phrase that is 100% germaine to the follow-up you are going to add. And double-check to make sure that your mailer isn't going to leave the rest of the post (or Digest) hanging out there at the bottom of your reply before you hit "Send". I hate to see longtime chakramites bailing out because they can't deal with pages and pages in each Digest of stuff they've seen before, in some cases several times. Please be mindful of your fellow listmembers when posting your replies. If you have any doubts as to how much is too much, please feel free to send your post to owner-chakram-refugees@smoe.org. I'll approve it (or not) and let you know why either way. Thanks ... and keep the good (new) stuff coming! I'm getting ready to go through some old episodes with a friend who revealed this weekend that she's only ever seen four episodes of X:WP and definitely wants to see more , and the discussions of late have really gotten me looking forward to a project like that. Meredith meth@smoe.org Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 18:57:51 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] <> # # # # # # # # # This is another fine comedy. It's odd but it has lot of things in it that I have found objectionable in other comedies but they seem to work here. First off it is a Xenalite episode which I usually don't care for but it works here. For one reason Xena is hardly missed is because it is such a busy episode. We begin with an over the top fight scene - five barbarians defeated by super Gabrielle - spinning like a top atop her staff, saving Joxer with her iron abs - it's funny. Then things just heat up Ares and Aphrodite drop in - literally. Alex Tydings is wonderful as the hygienically challenged goddess. Minya, her whip and her raging hormones appear. Then three naked Gabrielle's dance on stage, much to Joxer and Ares delight. There is a farcical chase through the caves for the missing scroll which finally finds Xena. When Xena finally appears from her extended fishing trip she brings not just some fish but a cart full of every imaginable fish there is - oh how I love our over-achieving warrior princess. Let's not forget the warlord vainly waiting for Ares signal only to be defeated by a flounder flinging Xena. Gabrielle's character also has rough time. I usually don't like when Gabrielle is made to look foolish but in this case it works because she is in such an absurd situation. Obviously Gabrielle has been a success at her bard trade since Xena has become a popular hero because of her. Still tempted to try fiction she is thwarted by a misbehaving scroll. Yes she does suffer writers block - but any writer would be stymied if everything you wrote literally came true. Bereft of metaphors and poetic license poor Gabrielle can't seem to write a simply declarative sentence but even simple declarative sentence also seem to turn on her. (The simple sentence "Gabrielle awake with a jerk" produced Joxer after all.) ROC is very funny as the increasingly frustrated bard (ROC does comic frustration very well). ROC also has a very nice scene with Kevin Smith. Gabby and Ares discussing Xena's terrific warrior ways is very amusing. They almost seem to bond for a moment much to their displeasure. I always liked how ROC and KS played their relationship. They are rivals for the affections of the same woman- wary of each other but I think they have a grudging respect for one another. Ares comes to realize that there is more to the irritating blond that he first thought and Gabrielle is starting to see Ares more human side. As I said interesting. Lots of good visual gags. Ares lusting after the naked Gabrielle's, Minya lusting after the bad boy in leather, beer on the house, the fey fellow chasing his kinsmen's sword. Also in the opening scene Gabrielle is going on about how she loves to hear the crinkle of a new scroll and in the background we have Xena listening to every sound in the forest - it funny just the way Lucy does listening - its like a hyper alert watch dog. Next week things take a serious turn - Maternal Instincts and The Bitter Suit. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 16:15:15 -0700 From: "Creation (Sharon Delaney)" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Renee doing Love Letters in Cherry Hill, New Jersey Renee will be appearing at our Cherry Hill, New Jersey convention (Aug. 9-11) doing Love Letters with Tim Omundson. She's appearing Saturday night, August 10. Sharon Official Xena Fan Club http://www.creationent.com/outback/fanclubs http://www.creationent.com (Creation home page) (join Creation's email mailing list on our home page for the latest news and convention and merchandise info) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 19:50:35 EDT From: HawkFalco@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> In a message dated 5/6/02 3:58:09 PM, cande@sunlink.net writes: >Also in the opening scene Gabrielle is going on >about how she loves to hear the crinkle of a new scroll and in the background >we have Xena listening to every sound in the forest - it funny just the >way Lucy does listening - its like a hyper alert watch dog. Yes, and notice how Xena looks around just as the invisible Aphrodite pops in. Xena can sense something but couldn't pin it down. She had that God-radar going, it's just not as hyper sensitive for Dite as it is for Ares. I love this comedy, too. My favorites are the group of nasty, smelly men ("We are Barbarians!") who run with the feet of chickens. Even Joxer is endearing as the love sick puppy who tries to buy Gabrielle's affection by practicing Aphrodite's advice. I have got to wonder at Gab's serious blind spot regarding Joxer's attentions. She certainly was masterful at explaining them away. Perhaps she was so focused on her Warrior Princess that the idea of Joxer being amorous just couldn't occur to her. The script is very clever and augments the site gags wonderfully. Perhaps it is this combination of wry humor and visual absurdity that makes the comedy work so well in this episode. The fish fight is a little over the top, but I can forgive that when taking the episode in as a whole. Hawk ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 17:29:57 -0700 From: "Creation (Sharon Delaney)" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Renee in Cherry Hill UPDATE Oops, I jumped the gun a little with that announcement. The ticket ordering information (and the change of date) hasn't been put on Creation's web page yet. Please wait until it's there before you try and order tickets. It should go up in the next day or two. Thanks and apologies, Sharon Official Xena Fan Club ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #121 **************************************