From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #118 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Saturday, May 4 2002 Volume 02 : Number 118 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Twilight Of the gods [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Xena and her sidekick [cr ] Re: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Twilight Of the gods [] Re: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Twilight Of the gods [Meredith Tarr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Twilight Of the gods On Friday 03 May 2002 14:39, Cheryl Ande wrote: > cr wrote: > > "The intersting thing is, every single one except Poseidon was killed, > either by their own weapon or missile, or by the same type of weapon they > were weilding. > > I rather think this was intentional. Remember Ares' warnings to the gods > that they would only bring about their own destruction if they went after > Eve? This seems to tie into that very neatly. " > > Yes it does seem intentional. Ares was right each god brought on his or > her own destruction. Remember Xena warns the gods to leave Eve alone and > if they did she wouldn't bother them. She certainly wasn't sent to kill > them - her power was to be used to protect Eve. That may be why she lost > the power to kill gods and angels. When she nearly drowned Michael she was > protecting Aphrodite and Gabrielle (although Michael said he wasn't going > to hurt Gabrielle) not Eve. She had turned Eli's god's gift against his > own so she lost it. Yes, though I must admit to thinking Xena may have had other motives than just protecting Aph & Gabs.... a certain degree of revenge for having used her, possibly, or maybe a determination to stop him useing her again in the future? (Either way, I was cheering Xena on, I was very peeved when Big G stepped in and took care of his boy Michael :) > Which makes me wonder what exactly Eli's position in heaven was. It seems > the pascifist would be certainly out of place amoung all those warrior > angels who not only make war but are manipulative. Certainly Eli's god > seems to be as ruthless as the Olympians since he saw no problem in using > Xena to first kill the Olympians who got in his way and then when she > turned out to have a mind of her own (gasp!) abandon her in the midst of > her enemies leaving his own messenger in mortal danger. I wish Eli could > have been around to explain this turn of events. > > CherylA I think Eli's god was just using him, too. But then, I'm a sceptical about him as Amarice was. Thelonius ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 20:48:54 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Xena and her sidekick On Friday 03 May 2002 13:18, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 05/02/2002 6:48:29 AM Central Daylight Time, > cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > << Well, I tend to take the view that 'canon' is what's explicitly shown on > screen, all else is the viewer's imagination. Having said which, TPTB > did > like to leave some things to the viewer's imagination, they didn't feel > obliged to provide neat easy answers for every circumstance. >> > > Hmmm. I'm not sure "canon" is what's "explicity" shown, or how much it > begins or ends with the viewer's imagination, or that that's what holds the > most "meaning" for the viewer. Let's say "canon" is that Xena fights, > sometimes killing, sometimes not. We see this; it underscores what we've > been told -- that she's a warrior. Some take from that "fact" that Xena is > a killer, or a person who only kills when necessary, or someone who killed > routinely until her "reformation" (due to Hercules, Gabrielle, or her own > self-revelation), or that she kills when the mood strikes, or some other > meaning. I was being more literal than that. In my definition, what is 'canon' is what is shown or said on-screen. That's all. Not what may be written in draft scripts or said in interviews or otherwise interpreted. All that you've mentioned above I would regard as interpretations from what is screened, with varying degrees of reliability. For example, is she a warrior - well yes, certainly, I don't think anyone could disagree with that, on the evidence of the episodes. Is she Ares' daughter? - that is very debatable, there's a suggestion that she is but then it's downplayed. There's no conclusive canon statement either way. Most interpretations of 'facts' on Xena fall somewhere in between the two examples I just gave there. > Is "canon" simply that she's a warrior? Or is it our interpretation of > what we've seen, which suggests what kind of warrior she is and why? Would > we care so much if she was simply a warrior like any other? If there was > nothing that we thought distinguished her in the way she fought or killed? > I agree that TPTB left a lot to our imaginations -- even fundamental > questions about whether Xena's past (and even some later inclinations) > determines what kind of warrior she is or deserves to be considered. For > some, the resulting "canon" deals solely with Xena. For others, that > "canon" is tied directly to people who influenced her life for good or bad. > For others, "canon" covers both views. Which is "right"? > > -- Ife I think your definition of the meaning of 'canon' probably differs slightly from mine. I just looked up the dictionary and frankly it gave so many alternative meanings that I can't say which is right. In fact (as so often) the applicable meaning probably depends on the context. But, from my definition of 'canon' it follows that anything explicitly shown / mentioned about any character on screen is 'canon' - whether it's about Xena or, say, Seraphin the terminally annoying. For example it's canon IIRC that Seraphin was a childhood chum of Gabby's (or something like that). Thelonius ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 11:51:24 -0400 From: Subject: Re: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Twilight Of the gods "Yes, though I must admit to thinking Xena may have had other motives than just protecting Aph & Gabs.... a certain degree of revenge for having used her, possibly, or maybe a determination to stop him useing her again in the future? (Either way, I was cheering Xena on, I was very peeved when Big G stepped in and took care of his boy Michael :)" Oh my yes Xena was more than peeved - she was furious. Michael certainly put eve in mortal danger to get Xena to do his dirty work for him. I always thought it was an interesting choice to turn an archangel into a quasi-villian. I was always waiting for some kind of howl of protest over this but nothing much happened that I'm aware of but I never did a lot of other lists. I think Rob Tapert has very interesting view of religion which somewhat reflects my own. Although I like a lot of what all religions teach - love, compassion, doing good - I'm often appalled at what they practice - war, intolerance, hate. It is always a wonder to me that the most horrible attrocities can be committed by people who are devoted to a "loving" god. Michael is just one of them. He an up right moral person (if an angle is a person) devoted to his god and even compassionate (Fallen Angel)but at the same time he can be a manipulator and a fanatic that would destroy his god's messanger to further his god's ends. In The God You Now he is actually soliciting murder. Caligula is evil but he doesn't come to Xena to ask for hel in overthrowing him - he demands that she kill for him and his god. Not a nice guy and perhaps he represents all fanatics. "I think Eli's god was just using him, too. But then, I'm a sceptical about him as Amarice was." I liked Eli and believed he was sincere but he is like a lot of saints after they are dead their words or deeds are perverted to the ends of others. St Francis of Assisi taught apostolic poverty but once he was dead and gone those who followed built his order into one the most powerful and wealth orders in direct opposition of what he preached. So perhaps what we have is the powers that be using Eli's good message to gather supporters so they can relace the Olympians. If that makes any sense. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 10:34:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Meredith Tarr Subject: Re: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Twilight Of the gods Hi, > I think Rob Tapert has very interesting view of > religion which somewhat reflects my own. Although I > like a lot of what all religions teach - love, > compassion, doing good - I'm often appalled at what > they practice - war, intolerance, hate. It is > always a wonder to me that the most horrible > attrocities can be committed by people who are > devoted to a "loving" god. I have lately been reading a trilogy which has reminded me a lot of the portrayal of the angels, Heaven et al. in _Fallen Angel_ and later episodes: Philip Pullman's "His Dark Materials", which is made up of _The Golden Compass_, _The Subtle Knife_, and _The Amber Spyglass_. It is an absolutely brilliant story that has lived up to all of the hype (a blurb on one of the volumes enthuses that it's "the best fantasy since _The Lord Of The Rings_", and I gotta say they have a point). I can't really come up with a quick description, save that it's got a lot to do with the multiple-Universes theory and _Paradise Lost_, with a little bit of _Wild Wild West_ thrown in. Anyway, Cheryl's comment put me in mind of one of the major themes of the trilogy, and it occurred to me that others here might enjoy the books as much as I have. Meredith meth@smoe.org Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 19:27:25 EDT From: KLOSSNER9@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] As If cancelled According to the TV column in my newspaper yesterday, As If, the UPN sitcom starring Adrienne Wilkinson, has been cancelled. Boeotian ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 22:03:21 -0400 (EDT) From: cjlnh@webtv.net (Cheryl LaScola) Subject: [chakram-refugees] What's up with LUCY?? I realize I am sometimes out of the loop. but I thought Lucy's baby was due at the end of April... I know it is only May 3rd, but has anyone heard any news?? I just didn't know if somehow I missed it. CJ ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #118 **************************************