From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #109 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Saturday, April 27 2002 Volume 02 : Number 109 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Need some help -- Name That Filly :) [cr ] [chakram-refugees] <> [] [chakram-refugees] Vote for the Sexy woman contest for FHM ["M. Cornwell] Re: [chakram-refugees] Need some help -- Name That Filly :) [Meredith Tar] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Need some help -- Name That Filly :) [cr > [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: <> [Mirrordrum ] [chakram-refugees] For "ANYthing New Zealandish" devotees ["H.J.J. Hewitt] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 21:28:18 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Need some help -- Name That Filly :) On Friday 26 April 2002 12:59, Mirrordrum wrote: > would you be willing to go with something like gwyntiera? sometimes one has > to make these little concessions. > > md > I thought of suggesting that.... but I think it's cheating ever so little ;) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 21:17:11 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Need some help -- Name That Filly :) On Friday 26 April 2002 09:28, Meredith Tarr wrote: (snip) > > > One of the other mares, Gabriella (not named by my > sister, funnily enough) just had a little filly last > night. The rules for naming purebred Lippizans are > very strict: a female's name must begin with the same > letter as her mother's, and all female Lippizan names > must end in "a". Since Gabriella doesn't start with > "X" in any alphabet we can come up with, as much as > everyone desperately wants to do it naming the foal > Xena is right out. :/ > > My sister wants to give the little filly an Amazon > name instead. I just looked at the cast lists on > Whoosh! for all of the episodes that involved Amazons, > but I don't see any Amazons with names that start with > G and end in A. > > So my question is this: are there any Amazons, > preferably out of series canon but also in the novels, > comics or even fanfic, if we have to go there, with a > name that fits the required criteria? > (Sigh) In the series, no. And I just looked too - Hooves & Harlots Ephiny Melosa Terreis Magdalus(?) Eponin The Quest (were there really no Amazon eps between H&H and this one?) Gabrielle Velasca Solari A Necesssary Evil - no new ones Sin Trade (were there no Amazons in Season 3?) Alti Cyane Yakut Otere Young Dead Amazon ;) Endgame Amarice Chilapa Them Bones Chi'ah Lyre Lyre Amoria (Gillian Iliana Waters - starts with a G, but that's not much help :) Lifeblood / Amazon High Cyane Karina Olan Samsara Eris Kindred Spirits Rhea (I won't bother about successive Cyanes....) Coming Home Marga Varia Dangerous Prey - no new ones Path of Vengeance Kanae Mawu-Ka Gwyn-Tier Helicon Tyro (is that a name or a description?) Trudis Prodigal Sister Siri Mayem Lucenne Love Amazon Style Kayla I'd love to have come up with one... even something really obscure - but unless some of the 'extra' Amazons had names we don't know about, there don't seem to be any. Thelonius ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 22:51:55 +1200 From: NZJester Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Need some help -- Name That Filly :) At 02:28 PM 25/04/02 -0700, Meredith wrote: >night. The rules for naming purebred Lippizans are >very strict: a female's name must begin with the same >letter as her mother's, and all female Lippizan names >must end in "a". Since Gabriella doesn't start with >"X" in any alphabet we can come up with, as much as >everyone desperately wants to do it naming the foal >Xena is right out. :/ > >My sister wants to give the little filly an Amazon >name instead. I just looked at the cast lists on >Whoosh! for all of the episodes that involved Amazons, >but I don't see any Amazons with names that start with >G and end in A. What about calling her GoXena Then you can say Go Xena Giddy up when riding her or alternatively GoodXena Then if you have another one to name with a B you can call it BadXena Catch ya later Jester My Home Page http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~nzjester/index.html New Xenaland http://www.angelfire.com/tv2/newxenaland/ ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 08:45:17 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Need some help -- Name That Filly :) Thanks to everyone who contributed Amazon names, or pointers to lists of Amazon names. (And Jester, your suggestions were great. :) My sister has settled upon the official name Gloriosa (something about some Latin hymn that runs through her head every time she looks at the foal - don't ask, I didn't ;). That's the name that will go on the foal's registration. However, her "barn name", i.e. the name that people will actually call her to her face and know her as in casual conversation, is Ephiny. :) There are no restrictions on barn names. Thought y'all would want to know that. I've got a couple photos which I will post soon. ======================================= Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth ======================================= Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://www.smoe.org/meth/muzak.html =====Next Up: Molly Zenobia 5/5/02===== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 02:36:14 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Need some help -- Name That Filly :) On Saturday 27 April 2002 00:45, meredith wrote: > > However, her "barn name", i.e. the name that people will actually call her > to her face and know her as in casual conversation, is Ephiny. :) There > are no restrictions on barn names. > Well now, that is certainly the pick of Amazon names, isn't it? Nice sounding name, too. I wonder what Danielle Cormack would say if she knew a horse had been named after her character. Something appropriate, no doubt. ;) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 09:35:57 -0400 From: Subject: [chakram-refugees] RE: Filly's Name How about that character from Dirty Half Dozen. Gliferia she wasn't an Amazon but she was a warrior. Cheryl ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:12:20 -0400 From: Subject: [chakram-refugees] <> cr Wrote: "Myself, looking primarily at Xena, Gabby is a 'weak point'. This can be seen as a weakness in tactical terms - which is a flaw in Xena\'s character - which is either 'bad' or interesting depending on one point of view. Gabby can also be seen as a humanising influence - Xena desperately needs someone to care for and who has faith in her. (I think that's canon too). Which is of course another character weakness or maybe a human aspect of Xena's character. So from my Xena-centric point of view, I have mixed feelings about Gabby." Ohhh why do I hear Barbra Streisand singing People Who Need People in the background. I think the role of Gabrielle was to humanize Xena. I don't Xena would have been interesting as a stoic lone warrior who never had to deal with the complications of human emotions. Xena learned a lot from Gabrielle - she learned to love, had silly fun, forgive and that she could be forgiven. Those are not weaknesses but things that made Xena stronger. By the end of the series you see a more compassionate woman - one tries sometimes to find peaceful solutions to problems and who has to strength to sacrifice herself for people who may not have been worthy of sacrifice. Heroes don't weigh the merits of people whom the save-they simply do it. First season Xena only wanted to save those whom she felt deserved it (remember in The Path Not Taken she says to the prince she doesn\'t save royalty) but by season end she waved those whom I think she may had reason to dislike ( Legacy, FIN2). With G! abrielle she became the hero - not because she could prevail in a fight but because she knew what she was fighting for. Her friendship with Gabrielle gave her that insight - not because Gabby was so wise that she taught it to Xena but because the relationship taught Xena love and tolerance. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:23:31 -0400 From: "M. Cornwell" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Vote for the Sexy woman contest for FHM http://www.fhm.com/girls/whsmith/signup.htm Vote for the Sexy woman contest for FHM Lucy and Renee should be at the top - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero Mary - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. Click Here ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:46:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Meredith Tarr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Need some help -- Name That Filly :) Hi, - --- cr wrote: > Well now, that is certainly the pick of Amazon > names, isn't it? :) Indeed. > I wonder what Danielle Cormack would say if she knew > a horse had been named > after her character. Something appropriate, no > doubt. ;) I'm sure. Especially since Lippizans are regarded to be the "royalty" of the equine world -- they are some of the most beautiful and definitely the most intelligent horses on the planet. (If anyone has seen the movie _Into The West_, that horse was played by a succession of Lippizans. They're the famous white horses of the Spanish Riding School.) If Danielle turns up at a convention near me sometime, I suppose I should go and give her a photo of her namesake and see what she says. :) Meredith meth@smoe.org Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:42:21 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> In a message dated 4/26/02 10:13:36 AM Central Daylight Time, cande@sunlink.net writes: << Her friendship with Gabrielle gave her that insight - not because Gabby was so wise that she taught it to Xena but because the relationship taught Xena love and tolerance. >> Yes, as well as self-love and respect. She learned the value of life -- her own as well as others, that her worth meant far more than the death her world revolved around, whether the goal was to harm or help. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 12:14:49 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> Carrying on 'The Debt' discussion, I just watched it again last night. What a visually gorgeous ep! And I noticed an interesting thing about Oley Sassone's technique, which is that he (or his cameraman) tilts the camera a lot of the time. Not wildly like T J Scott, but just slightly, enough to give a sort of dynamic feel to the shot. Long wide shots, like Lao Ma and Ming Tzu meeting in the forest, or that visually great scene of Lao Ma teaching Xena to smash the bottle with the tree in silhouette in the background, he films with the camera upright and absolutely square on to the actors. (Just like an amateur film-maker's first effort, but Sassone's no amateur). It gives a very static, formal feel, like a tableau, or an official recording. If done for the whole episode it would be boring. But then when he cuts to close-up, there's a slight tilt on the camera, which emphasis that this is the action. Overall, this is very effective, but subtle enough that I'd never noticed it till now. I don't know if any any other directors use this technique, I haven't looked for it. Back to our previous discussion about Gabs - I note that Ming Tien says to her at one point "If you think banishing Xena will keep her from returning to kill me, you don't know her as well as you think. " Then later on Gabs says to Xena "Xena, promise them that you will never attempt to kill Ming T'ien again. Promise him! Xena, if you promise them, they will banish you. Please, we can ride away from this." So either Gabs has been incredibly persuasive offscreen and Ming has promised to spare Xena's life - a promise which, if made, he immediately breaks, by the way - or else Gabby's indulging in wishful thinking again, which I think is more probable. Why Ming would bother to make such a promise to Gabby when he doesn't need anything from her I don't know. Maybe to shut her up? But if I were Gabby I'd tread carefully, considering Ming's tendency to throw people in jail and execute them. In that respect his treatment of Gabby seems odd. Maybe he really is capable of gratitude somewhere deep down, maybe it just amuses him to have her around. Oh yes, and I have to mention my favourite line of the episode - from Xena in the final scene: MING T'IEN You made me, Xena. You taught me to be the monster I am. XENA I know. It's part of the reason I'm here. I've learned to clean up after myself. Ouch! :) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 12:58:42 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Need some help -- Name That Filly :) On Saturday 27 April 2002 05:46, Meredith Tarr wrote: > Hi, > > --- cr wrote: > > Well now, that is certainly the pick of Amazon > > names, isn't it? > > > :) Indeed. > : > > I wonder what Danielle Cormack would say if she knew > > a horse had been named > > after her character. Something appropriate, no > > doubt. ;) > > I'm sure. Especially since Lippizans are regarded to > be the "royalty" of the equine world -- they are some > of the most beautiful and definitely the most > intelligent horses on the planet. (If anyone has seen > the movie _Into The West_, that horse was played by a > succession of Lippizans. They're the famous white > horses of the Spanish Riding School.) > > If Danielle turns up at a convention near me sometime, > I suppose I should go and give her a photo of her > namesake and see what she says. :) > > Meredith Bearing in mind that Ephiny did marry a four-footed person and had a dear little Centaur, Xenan, you'd better phrase it rather carefully ;-) Thelonius ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 12:54:41 +1200 From: cr Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: <> On Saturday 27 April 2002 03:12, cande@sunlink.net wrote: > cr Wrote: > > "Myself, looking primarily at Xena, Gabby is a 'weak point'. This can be > seen as a weakness in tactical terms - which is a flaw in Xena\'s character > - which is either 'bad' or interesting depending on one point of view. > Gabby can also be seen as a humanising influence - Xena desperately needs > someone to care for and who has faith in her. (I think that's canon too). > Which is of course another character weakness or maybe a human aspect of > Xena's character. So from my Xena-centric point of view, I have mixed > feelings about Gabby." > > Ohhh why do I hear Barbra Streisand singing People Who Need People in the > background. I think the role of Gabrielle was to humanize Xena. I don't > Xena would have been interesting as a stoic lone warrior who never had to > deal with the complications of human emotions. Xena learned a lot from > Gabrielle - she learned to love, had silly fun, forgive and that she could > be forgiven. Those are not weaknesses but things that made Xena stronger. > By the end of the series you see a more compassionate woman - one tries > sometimes to find peaceful solutions to problems and who has to strength to > sacrifice herself for people who may not have been worthy of sacrifice. > Heroes don't weigh the merits of people whom the save-they simply do it. > First season Xena only wanted to save those whom she felt deserved it > (remember in The Path Not Taken she says to the prince she doesn\'t save > royalty) but by season end she waved those whom I think she may had reason > to dislike ( Legacy, FIN2). With Gabrielle she became the hero - not > because she could prevail in a fight but because she knew what she was > fighting for. Her friendship with Gabrielle gave her that insight - not > because Gabby was so wise that she taught it to Xena but because the > relationship taught Xena love and tolerance. > > > CherylA Yes, I realise that. But did Xena's companion have to be so naive and irritating? ;-) (I'm referring to Season 1 Gabby here). It makes Xena's 'weak point' (or whatever we call it) just rather too big and potentially devastating for my liking. I could have credited M'Lila now.... but M'Lila got killed (sob). Thelonius ... I hate chatty food - the blind cyclops ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 21:38:48 -0400 From: Mirrordrum Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: <> At 12:54 PM 4/27/2002 +1200, cr wrote: > Her friendship with Gabrielle gave her that insight - not > > because Gabby was so wise that she taught it to Xena but because the > > relationship taught Xena love and tolerance. > > > > > > CherylA > >Yes, I realise that. But did Xena's companion have to be so naive and >irritating? ;-) >(I'm referring to Season 1 Gabby here). sure she did. besides tptb wrote the part specifically for renee who was essentially the same character in "lost kingdom" and very similar in whatever that ep was w/ james garner. in both she's young, spunky, and (to some of us) lovably irrepressible. to others of us, she's just plain irritating. i think what's so good about her character, regardless of whether one likes or hates her in that role, is that you've just about got to have those characteristics in order to highlight xena's dark, taciturn, self-reliant competence. if you make gabrielle as reticent and even mildly as dark as xena, you don't have contrast and they went for high contrast. i think they pretty much had to--or at least i think doing that was what created a lot of the humor in xena's character. at least for me. i mean, you've got to have gabrielle acting totally goofy to justify some of those marvelous lucy/xena expressions and xena's generally rude treatment of her. if you think gabrielle was, or should have been, basically supernumerary, then even in the first season you've got a totally different show. i can't imagine what that show would have been. a sort of female "have gun will travel" maybe? or perhaps a character like p.d. james' adam dalgleish. i think that would be an interesting story (the strong, silent and solitary heroic woman righting wrongs) and i hope someone does it eventually. of course, both dalgleish and, iirc, paladin are highly literary types. dalgleish is a published poet and paladin was, i believe, very philosophical. so xena would have had to be much more reflective and her angst would probably have come from her sensitive nature (carborundum-coated, of course) rather than her dark past. >It makes Xena's 'weak point' (or whatever we call it) just rather too big and >potentially devastating for my liking. except that xena's weak point *is* devastating. any hero's weak point is devastating. look at achilles' pride. there he sits sulking in his tent while his best friend/lover (whatever) gets killed. and his physical weak point was so devastating that they made it an epithet. or whatever that's called. > I could have credited M'Lila now.... but M'Lila got killed (sob). well but you can't have the person who teaches xena the pinch go on and be her side-kick, now can you? where's the fun in that? it has to be someone who teaches her something relevant to the weak point itself, doesn't it? i can't even remotely imagine any singing glees or wittiness with m'lila. she wouldn't be a foil at all. it has to be someone who makes xena's xenaness stand out. >Thelonius >... I hate chatty food - the blind cyclops and without the irritating blonde sidekick, you don't have half the lovely smart ass lines in the series. she occasions them, she doesn't deliver them. of course whether or not xena would become so devoted to this person (the nascent battling bard). . .well, that's another question. i can see it mostly because lucy and renee made it real for me. they made me believe it even when the scripts didn't. lucy particularly sells it for me--i think she's the one who had to (be willing to) buy and sell it. she was the one who had to, as renee says, find the "truth" in it. you know i like renee's acting, but i believe that if lucy hadn't been willing to open the door internally to the believability of that bond (however defined) it wouldn't have worked. md ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 22:25:01 -0500 From: "H.J.J. Hewitt" Subject: [chakram-refugees] For "ANYthing New Zealandish" devotees The HOME & GARDEN TV channel has a one-hour show "Homes of New Zealand" coming at 4 p.m. (Central) on Sunday the 5th. Not likely to include LL's or ROC's places, but New Xenaland devotees like me and LG (and maybe even KTL) who have been there will be plumped down right in front of our screens! TEXena ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #109 **************************************