From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #107 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Thursday, April 25 2002 Volume 02 : Number 107 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [Mirrordrum ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [Mirrordrum ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] E! has "Toughest Stars" ep on tonight [Mark & Deni] [chakram-refugees] Need some help -- Name That Filly :) [Meredith Tarr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> At 04:21 PM 4/25/2002 +1200, cr wrote: >On Thursday 25 April 2002 03:10, Meredith Tarr wrote: > > Hi, > > > > > That's why wondered if Xena realized she had > > > > killed Ming Tien. hecky yes! > The > > > > > whole scene after she killed Ming where she is > > > > talking to his corpse is > > > > > odd. Gabrielle isn't there and yet she is > > > > talking to him as if he is > > > > > alive. If she knew he was dead why have chat > > > > with him? oh that's just tptb yanking our collective chain. if she hadn't done that, well it just would've taken all the fun out of things. thelo wouldn't have had yet another reason to dislike gabrielle. that whole betrayal thing was so *bogus*--bogus in the 80's slang sense of unfair as well as the more traditional sense of fake or spurious. mad props to lucy for saying during the last dance that she'd have found it very trying to play gabrielle's role and always be screwing up. thank you lucy lawless. > If it's > > > > > deception who is she decieving? well, the viewers for starters and then she's/they're setting up the "forgive me" denouement for . that really was quite strange to have gabrielle pull that stunt in and then xena apologizing in . imo, xena takes entirely too much on herself. *not* mind you, that she hasn't got plenty of stuff realistically to accept responsibility for but i ask you. and i'm a gabfan, too, and still i say that. >Ah, those little white lies. > >Actually, so far as the relationship goes, I think lying to each other rather >pales into insignificance alongside Gabs getting Xena captured and nearly >executed by Ming. did you ever really buy that as something even gab would do? i mean, i know you don't like her character which is fine and fun, but i *do* like the character and i found it rather hijus. and just quite unbelievable. indeed, iirc, it was one of the places renee balked. gabrielle is impulsive, thoughtless, lacking in perception, inept and doesn't listen. she's basically responsible for keeping xena occupied in rescue missions. without gabrielle's constant blundering, where's the fun? but this was just not in character. she screws up, but she's not vengeful. and i didn't buy the attempt to rectify it in either. just a plot device. > I do not think that is forgiveable and if someone did >that to me I don't think I would ever trust them again. IMO. the only way i was ever able to buy it was the same way i bought the gabdrag. i don't think that kind of behavior is excusable *and* i simply took it, and gab's behavior, as over-the-top scripted reactions to give tptb something angsty to play with. and i must say that it was worth having gabrielle look like a major a**hole just to see lucy's work with the slap scene and the dungeon scratch my nose scene. without the betrayal, you just don't have two of lucy's finest pieces of work. and it's *got* to be someone like gabrielle betraying her, however contrived the manner, for it to work. what i never buy is that this kind of thing wouldn't simply eat gabrielle up. oh well. that wasn't her role. that was xena's. >But anyway, just suppose Xena decided to tell Gabby the truth...... > >Gabs: "Xena, your not killing him made you exactly what Lao Ma wanted you >to be." and that's another thing. i found it very unlikely that lao ma would have asked that of xena. i can see why xena would do it if asked but. . .i dunno. and i also don't think she'd have lied to gabrielle about it. but what do i know. >Speaking of which, I've just realised how significant that hair brooch theme >is. And Xena, as requested, used the hair brooch to >kill him. > >I've only just appreciated the full significance of that hair brooch >theme.... nice plotting. well but the odd thing, another odd thing, is that to use it as a killing instrument, one has to have great clarity of focus as lao ma demonstrated. i don't buy that xena could have had that while also intending to deceive. she certainly couldn't have had it if she were in two minds about what she was doing. i don't think that focus can come out of overwhelming anger. it has to come from detachment. that was lao ma's lesson and that was why xena couldn't break the bottle in . because she *needed* to and was attached to the outcome, she lost her focus. clearly in at the end she's very focused as she brings down the temple. but that focus should have persisted right through with full intent to ming tien's execution. that's what she went there for and that's what she should have done, without attachment or a sense of revenge. if she had fallen into revenge mode, which is implied, she would have lost her ability to do those "tricks" that come with stilling the mind and all that stuff. she wouldn't have been able to use the hair stick with such precision. whaddaya think? md ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 01:00:52 -0400 From: Mirrordrum Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> At 04:20 PM 4/25/2002 +1200, cr wrote: >On Thursday 25 April 2002 03:25, Meredith Tarr wrote: > > Hi, > > > > We journey into _The Bitter Suite_ and a couple other > > episodes here... > > > > Thelonius responded: > > > (Hmm, maybe that's why I don't care for Gabby so > > > much..... I see her not as > > > a character of her own but as Xena's biggest > > > character weakness. Something > > > Freudian going on in _my_ head, maybe. ;) what an interesting idea. i don't agree personally, that is in my response, but i can certainly see how you'd say that and i think there are some very clear indications that this is true. i think because i do like gabrielle, i tend to kind of rewrite or blow off those bits. take what i need and leave the rest. and then again, a lot of xena's motivation hinges on that very weakness--which is in fact labeled by her in for example. i think an argument could be made that we do indeed make "soulmates" of our characterological weaknesses and we can let them lead us to wrack and ruin. and we frequently reify them by getting involved in some way with people who personify these weaknesses. this is another reason, imo, why the ending was painful but essential. it finally separates xena from the driving force that made gabrielle essential in a way that, to me, wasn't always awfully healthy. it was at its healthy best, imo, when they were sparring or in light episodes like or when xena was doing things her way regardless. i think we've been given at least two views of them. one is the angsty "gabrielle is xena's weakness" view that comes across in high dramatic sequences. t'other is the fun view that comes across in the comedies. i just sort of melded them. > > > > Maybe. :) IMO, Gabrielle's path followed that of the > > "hero's journey" far closer than Xena's did, at least > > as viewed through the lens of the events we saw take > > place during the run of the show. Gabrielle's > > character grew into someone completely unrecognizable > > from the annoying chatterbox Xena rescued from > > Potadeia. Xena herself, however, remained much the > > same from _Sins Of The Past_ to _FIN_. interesting. this was an observation i had made to myself whilst considering sharon's questions for renee post. >I'd partly agree with you there. IMO, Xena's character _did_ change.... >I think she matured a bit. though never entirely reconciled to >her past, hence the developments >in Friend in Need. > >Gabby, on the other hand, did change far more. And from my point of view >got a lot less annoying ;-) awwww, she was such a goofball in the early eps but she really did make a perfect foil for xena's competence. > > But then, everyone knows I always liked Gabrielle > > best. i call myself a gabfan simply because i actually like the character and identify with her more than xena. but i don't exactly turn away from the set when xena's on. and i didn't just, you know, yawn and fall asleep when xena was kicking butt and taking names or wearing that smashing outfit in that was the only remotely redeeming feature of that ep. oh except for the loom burning. i rather enjoyed that. but i do maintain that renee is by far the better fighter and dancer. lucy sells it with dramatic skill. renee can *do* it. >You are permitted to. Specially since you run the list... ;-) i'm permitted also. and i don't run anything. chortle. md ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 20:09:00 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Thursday 25 April 2002 16:44, Mirrordrum wrote: > At 04:21 PM 4/25/2002 +1200, cr wrote: > >On Thursday 25 April 2002 03:10, Meredith Tarr wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > > That's why wondered if Xena realized she had > > > > > > killed Ming Tien. > > hecky yes! > > > The > > > > > > whole scene after she killed Ming where she is > > > > > > talking to his corpse is > > > > > > > odd. Gabrielle isn't there and yet she is > > > > > > talking to him as if he is > > > > > > > alive. If she knew he was dead why have chat > > > > > > with him? > > oh that's just tptb yanking our collective chain. if she hadn't done that, > well it just would've taken all the fun out of things. thelo wouldn't have > had yet another reason to dislike gabrielle. that whole betrayal thing was > so *bogus*--bogus in the 80's slang sense of unfair as well as the more > traditional sense of fake or spurious. mad props to lucy for saying during > the last dance that she'd have found it very trying to play gabrielle's > role and always be screwing up. thank you lucy lawless. > > > If it's > > > > > > deception who is she decieving? > > well, the viewers for starters and then she's/they're setting up the > "forgive me" denouement for . > > that really was quite strange to have gabrielle pull that stunt in > and then xena apologizing in . imo, xena takes entirely too much on > herself. *not* mind you, that she hasn't got plenty of stuff realistically > to accept responsibility for but i ask you. and i'm a gabfan, too, and > still i say that. I (obviously) agree with you. Mind you, it is completely in character for Xena to take too much on herself. As regards Gabby's stunt in Debt, I find it much more understandable and hence excusable when I consider that Ares has been 'persuading' her off-screen. Similarly, I always found it a little unlikely that Xena would, in cold blood, drag Gabby off to the nearest convenient cliff for homicidal purposes. I know we got a minute of Ares working on her - but to explain the Gabdrag, I have to assume (and it's a reasonable assumption) that Ares was working on her for quite a while and we only got shown a short excerpt for obvious cinematic reasons. OTOH, having been dragged to the cliff edge, I find it quite understandable that Gabwreck in the heat of the moment should rush at Xena with the object of pushing her over. > > > >Ah, those little white lies. > > > >Actually, so far as the relationship goes, I think lying to each other > > rather pales into insignificance alongside Gabs getting Xena captured and > > nearly executed by Ming. > > did you ever really buy that as something even gab would do? i mean, i know > you don't like her character which is fine and fun, but i *do* like the > character and i found it rather hijus. and just quite unbelievable. indeed, > iirc, it was one of the places renee balked. gabrielle is impulsive, > thoughtless, lacking in perception, inept and doesn't listen. she's > basically responsible for keeping xena occupied in rescue missions. without > gabrielle's constant blundering, where's the fun? but this was just not in > character. she screws up, but she's not vengeful. and i didn't buy the > attempt to rectify it in either. just a plot device. (Umm, as an aside, considered over the whole series I don't actually dislike Gabby so much as react against the more enthusiastic Gabfans who think she can do no wrong. And I do tweak them from time to time ;) Back to your point - yes, I agree. I found it a bit far-fetched. I don't think Forget Me Not was 'an attempt to rectify it' though, I think the Ares involvement was plotted that way from the start. And I *do* buy it that Ares could persuade Gabby, for the good of Xena's soul, to travel to Chin and warn Ming. Ares could be _very_ persuasive. What I can't accept is that Ares, who had plans for Xena, would have let her be executed by Ming. OTOH, maybe his powers to intervene weren't very effective so far from Olympus. What made Gabs' stunt seem improbable was that it was sprung on us and therefore the idea of Gabby being persuaded by Ares was not established. > > I do not think that is forgiveable and if someone did > >that to me I don't think I would ever trust them again. IMO. > > the only way i was ever able to buy it was the same way i bought the > gabdrag. i don't think that kind of behavior is excusable *and* i simply > took it, and gab's behavior, as over-the-top scripted reactions to give > tptb something angsty to play with. I can buy that they happened. I just can't see that they would be able to trust each other for a _long_ time afterwards. But then, for the purposes of the drama, I'm willing to accept it (although with some reservations about their rapid reconciliations). > and i must say that it was worth having > gabrielle look like a major a**hole just to see lucy's work with the slap > scene and the dungeon scratch my nose scene. without the betrayal, you just > don't have two of lucy's finest pieces of work. and it's *got* to be > someone like gabrielle betraying her, however contrived the manner, for it > to work. Yes, agreed. Somebody had to do that job. I think it could be quite consistent that Gabby did what she did, but because of two factors - first, the concentration on Xena's story rather than Gabs's, and second, the desire to surprise us (which certainly worked!) - for those two reasons Gabs' motivations weren't built up in a convincing manner. IMO. > what i never buy is that this kind of thing wouldn't simply eat gabrielle > up. oh well. that wasn't her role. that was xena's. Well, yes, as you say. Xena the conflicted Warrior Princess. This rather handicapped Gabs' role, I think, in two ways - first, I don't think the series could really take _two_ conflicted leads; and second, Gabby's inner turmoil over killing Meridian (and Hope?) can't help seeming rather small potatoes compared with Xena's past. > >But anyway, just suppose Xena decided to tell Gabby the truth...... > > > >Gabs: "Xena, your not killing him made you exactly what Lao Ma wanted you > >to be." > > and that's another thing. i found it very unlikely that lao ma would have > asked that of xena. i can see why xena would do it if asked but. . .i > dunno. and i also don't think she'd have lied to gabrielle about it. but > what do i know. I think Lao Ma, seeing what a monster Ming Tien had become, could very well have decided that somebody should rid the world of him. And presumably Xena was her only hope of that. > > Fanfic? AAaaargh! I don't read fanfic and ... ummm... that was fanfic? Does that make me a fanfic writer? [Thelonius has a fit of the horrors] > >Speaking of which, I've just realised how significant that hair brooch > > theme is. And Xena, as requested, used the hair brooch to > >kill him. > > > >I've only just appreciated the full significance of that hair brooch > >theme.... nice plotting. > > well but the odd thing, another odd thing, is that to use it as a killing > instrument, one has to have great clarity of focus as lao ma demonstrated. > i don't buy that xena could have had that while also intending to deceive. > she certainly couldn't have had it if she were in two minds about what she > was doing. i don't think that focus can come out of overwhelming anger. it > has to come from detachment. that was lao ma's lesson and that was why xena > couldn't break the bottle in . because she *needed* to and was > attached to the outcome, she lost her focus. > > clearly in at the end she's very focused as she brings down the > temple. but that focus should have persisted right through with full intent > to ming tien's execution. that's what she went there for and that's what > she should have done, without attachment or a sense of revenge. if she had > fallen into revenge mode, which is implied, she would have lost her ability > to do those "tricks" that come with stilling the mind and all that stuff. > she wouldn't have been able to use the hair stick with such precision. > whaddaya think? > > md OK - while she was chucking fireballs, I agree, she was focussed but 'without atachment' (gotta be a better phrase for that!). When Ming somehow survived, I think she was prepared to let him live. But then Ming quite clearly demonstrated that he was quite uncowed by his defeat and - IMO - that he was likely to get up to his old tricks again the first chance he got. So she decided - and here I think she was thinking of the Greater Good of his subjects/victims - to kill him as originally planned. I don't think, though, that Xena would have needed the same mental coolness or focus to stick that brooch in his head - that's the sort of thing the Warrior Princess could do without even needing to concentrate - it would have required no more skill than 'putting the pinch' on someone. IMO. Thelonius ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 21:00:25 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Thursday 25 April 2002 17:00, Mirrordrum wrote: > At 04:20 PM 4/25/2002 +1200, cr wrote: > >On Thursday 25 April 2002 03:25, Meredith Tarr wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > We journey into _The Bitter Suite_ and a couple other > > > episodes here... > > > > > > Thelonius responded: > > > > (Hmm, maybe that's why I don't care for Gabby so > > > > much..... I see her not as > > > > a character of her own but as Xena's biggest > > > > character weakness. Something > > > > Freudian going on in _my_ head, maybe. ;) > > what an interesting idea. i don't agree personally, that is in my response, > but i can certainly see how you'd say that and i think there are some very > clear indications that this is true. i think because i do > like gabrielle, i tend to kind of rewrite or blow off those bits. take what > i need and leave the rest. and then again, a lot of xena's motivation > hinges on that very weakness--which is in fact labeled by her in > for example. Well actually, it's canon that Gabs is certainly Xena's tactical weak point. The biggest chink in Xena's armour. The point you've made - that you 'blow off' those bits - are (IMO) simply because you're looking primarily from Gabs' point of view. And from that point of view, the character of Gabrielle is important and the fact that Xena's affection for her can undermine Xena's position in a fight is, I guess, just one of those things. (I hope I'm not misrepresenting your position but I'm sure you'll correct me if I am ;) Myself, looking primarily at Xena, Gabby is a 'weak point'. This can be seen as a weakness in tactical terms - which is a flaw in Xena's character - which is either 'bad' or interesting depending on one point of view. Gabby can also be seen as a humanising influence - Xena desperately needs someone to care for and who has faith in her. (I think that's canon too). Which is of course another character weakness or maybe a human aspect of Xena's character. So from my Xena-centric point of view, I have mixed feelings about Gabby. So what I'm getting at I guess, is that we see the same things from our own viewpoints and accord different degrees of significance to them. > i think an argument could be made that we do indeed make "soulmates" of our > characterological weaknesses and we can let them lead us to wrack and ruin. > and we frequently reify them by getting involved in some way with people > who personify these weaknesses. Yes, that's not far from what I was getting at. > this is another reason, imo, why the > ending was painful but essential. it finally separates xena from the > driving force that made gabrielle essential in a way that, to me, wasn't > always awfully healthy. it was at its healthy best, imo, when they were > sparring or in light episodes like or when xena was doing things > her way regardless. Did someone say 'co-dependent relationship' ? ;) > i think we've been given at least two views of them. one is the angsty > "gabrielle is xena's weakness" view that comes across in high dramatic > sequences. t'other is the fun view that comes across in the comedies. i > just sort of melded them. Well yes. That's not altogether unlike real life, in actual fact. People show different aspects of their character in different circumstances. In fact, goshdarnit, the *same* facet of someone's character can either be delightful or a right menace as circumstances change. > > >I'd partly agree with you there. IMO, Xena's character _did_ change.... > >I think she matured a bit. though never entirely reconciled to > >her past, hence the developments > >in Friend in Need. > > > >Gabby, on the other hand, did change far more. And from my point of view > >got a lot less annoying ;-) > > awwww, she was such a goofball in the early eps but she really did make a > perfect foil for xena's competence. It is, of course, canon that she was 'irritating' ;) I think my main annoyance with her came again from my Xena-centric view - it was not so much that *I* found her annoying, she was no more annoying than 80% of characters on TV, I can tolerate that. But I couldn't understand why Xena Warrior Princess, Destroyer of Nations, would tolerate anybody like that. And I still can't. ;) It's an inconsistency in Xena's character. 'Now', with all that history behind them, I can understand Xena taking Gabby seriously. But 'then' - Season 1 - I think that, in 'reality', the Xena of Season 1 wouldn't have tolerated the Gabby of Season 1 for more than half an episode. > > > But then, everyone knows I always liked Gabrielle > > > best. > > i call myself a gabfan simply because i actually like the character and > identify with her more than xena. but i don't exactly turn away from the > set when xena's on. and i didn't just, you know, yawn and fall asleep > when xena was kicking butt and taking names or wearing that smashing outfit > in that was the only remotely redeeming feature of that ep. oh except > for the loom burning. i rather enjoyed that. but i do maintain that renee > is by far the better fighter and dancer. lucy sells it with dramatic skill. > renee can *do* it. Oddly enough, though I do indeed agree that ROC is more built for it, and probably better at it, I still find Xena more convincing in a fight. Probably, as you say, Lucy's dramatic skill. Xena just seems to be so much more sinister a character, I can believe her fighting and killing people. She has a 'dark side'. I find it much harder to credit Gabby doing the same. I don't think ROC does 'dark' so well. Part of it is also due to the overall series story - Xena's had a lifetime of doing that (and - maybe - is half-god as well, maybe not). Gabby's only had a couple of years of fighting and she has no sort of exotic/questionable background to account for her suddenly acquired ability. > >You are permitted to. Specially since you run the list... ;-) > > i'm permitted also. and i don't run anything. chortle. > > md Yeah, but you're md. I'm not sure we can forbid you anything. ;) Thelonius ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 12:33:16 -0500 From: Mark & Denise Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] E! has "Toughest Stars" ep on tonight Well, darn! I missed the first half, but thanks for the information. Was it just me.....hmmm.... or is Mr. T. a secret fan? When I first say the gold frying pan on his chest I just *knew* that was a homage to Joxer! That makes him a "Joxerite", right?! Mark Cheryl LaScola wrote: > SPOILER AHEAD.....> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lucy was voted #2 in the classic category, beaten by Sigourney Weaver... > > Personally I think she should have made the main list of 25 because had > there been no Xena......Angel, Buffy and Alias would never have been > dreamed up. > > CJL ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 14:28:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Meredith Tarr Subject: [chakram-refugees] Need some help -- Name That Filly :) Hi, I have a weird request for which I need the help of the Xenites. My sister, a Xenite in her own right has a Lippizan horse farm. (One of these days, I'll post on the Web a photo of her young mare Camilla, nicknamed the "warrior princess", playing with her chakram - the big one from the playset has been hanging in her stall as a chew toy since she was a foal. She's also got a X:WP sticker on her feed bucket.) One of the other mares, Gabriella (not named by my sister, funnily enough) just had a little filly last night. The rules for naming purebred Lippizans are very strict: a female's name must begin with the same letter as her mother's, and all female Lippizan names must end in "a". Since Gabriella doesn't start with "X" in any alphabet we can come up with, as much as everyone desperately wants to do it naming the foal Xena is right out. :/ My sister wants to give the little filly an Amazon name instead. I just looked at the cast lists on Whoosh! for all of the episodes that involved Amazons, but I don't see any Amazons with names that start with G and end in A. So my question is this: are there any Amazons, preferably out of series canon but also in the novels, comics or even fanfic, if we have to go there, with a name that fits the required criteria? Any help would be greatly appreciated. :) (I'll post the URL of photos as soon as I have it, too -- baby horses are *soooo* cute!!) Meredith meth@smoe.org Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 20:59:38 -0400 From: Mirrordrum Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Need some help -- Name That Filly :) would you be willing to go with something like gwyntiera? sometimes one has to make these little concessions. md At 02:28 PM 4/25/2002 -0700, Meredith Tarr wrote: >Hi, > >I have a weird request for which I need the help of >the Xenites. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 21:50:15 -0400 From: "bookdaft" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Xena Live! Xena Lives! The Musical - A Review And Other Odd Bits After several days of struggling with writing it, I finally got a sort of review put together. Here be spoiler space. Read on at your peril, unless you don't care whether you are spoiled or not, of course - / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / Xena Live! Xena Lives! The Musical If you were one of those lost when the television show ended, then buck up! There is a new production of XENA: WARRIOR PRINCESS, now showing in Chicago. For that, I am deeply grateful. There are popular television shows and then there are unique television shows. XENA: WARRIOR PRINCESS has spawned much fan fiction and other literary, visual and artistic pursuits. But it is rare when a television show generates a theatrical production. Even more rare is when that same television show inspires the same theatrical group to create a second, new theatrical production. And a musical, to boot. This is precisely what has happened with Xena. First there was XENA LIVE! EPISODE 1 - DOUBLE YOUR PLEASURE. That production was a hit and the newest one, EPISODE 2: XENA LIVES! THE MUSICAL appears to be a winner, too. The plot is a deceptively simple one. Alti, as ever wanting Xenas power, brings her back to life. Gabrielle, meanwhile, gains her own sidekick and embarks on a mission to find out whether a new religion is about to become a danger to the world. Xena, hearing that Gabrielle has gone off to find the new religion, and mindful that Gabrielle is a sucker for any new religion she comes across, sets out to find her. Along the way Xena crosses paths with some Greek gods, Ares and Aphrodite, and an angel, Gaybriel. Mayhem ensues, with the gods and Gaybriel involving themselves in the Xenas life. At the same time, Gabrielle and her sidekick are captured while investigating the new religion. Eventually, Xena shows up, does battle with Alti and generally kicks butt. Interspersed throughout the play are several catchy tunes, some written specifically for the production, along with some recognizable rock/pop songs. The show opens with four Xena fans looking out into the audience, obviously stunned. We find they are shocked over the series finale, A Friend In Need. (How could they do that? How could they kill Xena?) There is one man and 3 women, with two of the women dressed as Xena and Gabrielle. Suddenly, the fourth woman cries out that they can bring Xena back by taking the video of the ending and dubbing it into the finale so that Xena comes back to life. To the Xenite, this is all too familiar it is reminiscent of Send In The Clones and, possibly, When Fates Collide. The similarity becomes even more apparent when we discover the woman orchestrating Xenas resurrection is Alti. Someone has been paying attention to her Xena episodes. Slipping into a cloak while stroboscopic lights play, scenes appear on the scrim at the back of the theater and we see scenes from Them Bones, Them Bones, mostly the ones of clouds and blood vessels and earthquakes. This is where Di Baudens efforts first appear. We also see a scene of Xenas head rising up out of the water, as if she was sitting up. This seems close to Xena rising out of the water in The Debt 1, although she has no knife. But Alti is back with a vengeance. The actress who plays her doesnt try to use the harsh, husky voice like Claire Stansfield developed, but rather aims for an impression of Alti, and succeeds very well. This is a character played over the top. Her song defines her as, well, Evil. This production takes the ending of the finale and makes several logical projections about the characters. The next scene is of a mourning Gabrielle singing The Burial Song, that Xena had always sung for others, while pouring Xenas ashes out onto the ground, perhaps somewhere in Greece. Gabrielle is attempting to let go, I think. She has no regrets about her decision to let Xena stay dead, but in later scenes we find that she is not really ready to let go of Xena (this is seen in the Fantasy sequence). But in the first scenes, she is strong, confident, experienced and resolute. A young man approaches her by trying to steal her belongings and she physically overpowers him. She is a bit taken aback when she learns he wants to be her sidekick. The young man, Synonymous, is earnest and a bit naove, or perhaps clueless. At first she says no, but there are obvious parallels to Xena taking on a sidekick. He points those parallels out to Gabrielle, and she relents and takes him on. However, Gabrielle hasnt thought so much of what to do next and accepts Synonymous suggestion they check out a new religion. Although it is his suggestion, Synonymous appears to be hiding something. Gabrielle doesnt pick up on it, but it was made obvious to the audience. Just what he is hiding becomes the key to the action near the climax of the play. Then we are off to the rest of the show. Xena awakens, finding she has a guardian angel, Gaybriel. Played by Jason Vizza with some swish, Gaybriel is decidedly not happy with Heaven. Ticking off a number of things wrong with the place (and they dont accessorize!), he appears less intent on helping Xena than just getting in her way. Eventually he comes through. Gaybriel is blond, as you would expect an angel to be, but he is dressed in a little silver skirt and weskit, with silver boots and, of course, wings. Xena learns Gabrielle is off to learn about this new religion and decides this will be her new quest. She doesnt have anything else to do after all, having just been returned from the dead. She also meets up with Ares. When I saw Ares the first time, I had a twinge of sad because I was immediately reminded of Kevin Smith and his defining portrayal of the character. But Gregory Thomas Isaac is a different actor and really does make Ares his own. His Ares struts around Xena, cocky as ever, with a hint of an in-your-face attitude. Puffing his chest out, he tries to charm Xena (not succeeding) and greets her with a great, potent kiss. Xena does resist, although she is a bit slow. I think she was surprised, but she has always had a thing for him. Around this time we are introduced to those pesky religious people and entertaining they are. They are led by Androgyny who somehow manages to remind me of Priestess Leah. Perhaps it is because Androgyny keeps saying, Praise me. There is a revivalist, even evangelical, nature to Androgyny s patter. He has followers who believe whole-heartedly in the cause. Those who recall Autolycus performance as Philepon the Reformer from Tale Of Two Muses, might see some resemblance to Androgyny. But Androgyny is a different mettle. Where Philepon is dour and sanctimonious (albeit ironic as played by Autolycus), Androgyny is sweet and positive, if not more than a little self-involved. Androgynys message love yourself has struck a chord with the followers and they are willing to do battle. (We later find them willing to do Altis bidding, so they tend to be fickle, as well.) Scott Duff has a toe-tapping and show-stopping entrance with Praise Me. If you dont end up humming it later, then Ill be surprised. It has a really feel-good sensation to it. That is one of the pleasures of this production. Nearly all the songs are well known to most people. From Beast Of Burden to Satisfaction to You Are My Sunshine, almost all of the songs are still being played on radio stations across the country. As mentioned before, the tune Praise Me is a spirited song and is one of the two original songs written for the musical. The other is Moving On, a duet sung by Xena and Gabrielle about moving their lives forward. Sung for the most part physically separate, it is a haunting internal discussion of what has been and what their lives must be about now. I find this another memorable song, something that keeps playing in my head. Aphrodite is in this production and is in a pivotal role. If she doesnt steal the show, she comes very close to it. Lisa Velten bears a striking resemblance to Alex Tydings and is an excellent comedienne as well. She, too, manages to make Aphrodite different from Alexs reading. I was never reminded of Alexs portrayal after the first few minutes. During the television show, I never had the impression that Aphrodite was much on pratfalls, but this Dite does them and does them well. I never knew a goddess could be so limber! Eventually everyone comes together in the same place and there is a battle between Xena and Alti. In the end, Love conquers all, and that isnt a bad way to resolve things. I found the fight scenes interesting because it appears they use real swords, not rubber ones, as often were used in the television show. Kicks and sword swings are often wide of their mark, but when the swords do thrust and parry, you can hear the clang of the clash. Watching Elizabeth Laidlaw swing her sword, I can see there is weight in that weapon and it reminds me that these people are very good at what they do. My understanding is that most of the actors in this production are certified for stage fighting, which I think is pretty cool. As in the first episode, Episode 2 also has commercials. This enhances the image of the production as a television show. Of the theater performances I have seen thus far, several ads have been done repeatedly. But at the performances held while Bardcon was in town, there were a couple of new ones. The one that seemed most pertinent that night was for the liqueur, Ailize`, which sponsored the reception and Q & A the performance. I brought home the martini-like glass home as a keepsake. All of the commercials are played for laughs, but they do function as advertisements for the theaters season sponsors and so provide an active service beyond just existing as footnotes inside the program books. Besides, they are funny. Not only do the commercials vary, but sometimes lines are changed or dropped or scenes are added or deleted. It keeps things fresh for the fans, especially those fans who return repeatedly to see the show, and for the actors too, I imagine. Finally, Episode 2 captures all of the campy good humor and comedy of the television show (most apparent in the first two seasons), yet manages to explore a serious subject, that learning to accept yourself is all right. It is very subtext friendly production and which I think underscores the message. Despite some really odd characters and bits, these things work and the show is a fast-paced 90 minutes that just seems to breeze by. Perhaps it is in the characters as written, but it just feels like a regular Xena episode, albeit with different faces. Elizabeth Laidlaw and Amy Matheny as Xena and Gabrielle are simply excellent. As actors they portray the characters slightly differently, but that is no criticism. There are many fans who believe that no one but Lucy Lawless and Renee` OConnor can play Xena and Gabrielle, but I say if there was to be a Xena movie, I believe Elizabeth and Amy could easily fill in for them anytime. They not are quite the same, but they do the characters justice and have great chemistry of their own. I dont believe we can ask for more. For those who miss the show and want to see a Xena episode again, it is alive and well, and playing in Chicago. I have enjoyed every performance I have seen thus far and plan on seeing it again. I encourage all fans that have the ability to go to Chicago and see XENA LIVES! THE MUSICAL. I don t think anyone will be disappointed. Moving away from the review to the odd bits- For those who might be interested in the new XENA LIVE! production, Im posting some of the commentary from the Q & A session after the second April 13 performance. It only lasted about a half our, but we learned several interesting things. Some of those things were, in no particular order: - - Amy briefly talked about how she had had had the show on, perhaps just for noise. At the time, she was living in Iowa. She saw two women talking in the bushes and thought this is a lesbian show! Di Bauden reminded her and the audience, that the episode she was watching was Altared States. The teaser in that episode, as most know, is highly suggestive of an intimate relationship between two women. At some point she got it into her head that she wanted to do a theatrical play based on the show and had to research who held the theatrical rights. It came down to the owner being Rob Tapert. He was contacted and gave permission. Elizabeth added that he didnt care what they did, essentially giving them carte blanche. - - Because of Actors Equity rules, there cant be any videos made of the play(s). A question came up about selling the original scripts from episode 1 and Episode 2. I believe there are questions regarding theatrical rights about the first, but that it might be sold. The second is likely out of the question because it was said there were too many cooks involved in this production to probably get it printed for sale. Also, it seems to be continually changing, even though previews are over. - - Elizabeth talked about how she got involved. Prior to Episode 1, she and Alexandra Billings lived in the same building complex. One day Alexandra called down from her balcony, Hey Laidlaw. Ya wanna be in Xena? Youd be great! Elizabeths response was, Not me. Im a classically trained actress! But Elizabeth said no one can just deny Alexandra. Eventually, she talked Elizabeth into it and the rest is history. Elizabeth wasnt a fan of the show, so she wasnt familiar with it, even perhaps was a bit dismissive of it. Once she was cast, though, she spent time catching up and trying to get a feel for that character by watching videos of the show. - - Lisa Velten (Aphrodite, Pig) was determined to be in the show and tried to prove herself in her audition. As those who have seen it know, she was cast in the show. - - At the Bardcon dinner: Elizabeth stopped by and talked to the fans. It was noisy, despite Elizabeth using her stage voice and projecting as she might from the stage, so I couldnt hear everything, but what I could proved interesting. She said that nights performance had been good. There seemed to be a lot of fans there and they were responsive to all the bits in the show. Some comments that washed up and eddied was that planning for Episode 2 had begun before the finale aired. When they found out Xena had been killed, the attitude was OK, so? Di Bauden told them, No, she really was killed, shes really dead. I presume that they had to take that into account for the storyline they meant to do. Claudia Allen had originally intended to set the play in Egypt and bring in Ancient Egypts sacred animals, somehow that was transformed into barnyard animals. When she first read the script, Elizabeth wondered why the animals, but apparently Claudia felt there were more jokes to be gotten out of the barnyard animals than Egyptian animals. I was able to mention that one of my favorite lines was chicken stir fry, and Elizabeth said she might be changing that line in future performances, that it might be time to make a change to something like chicken pot pie, or some such. - - There was one question to them during the Q & A, regarding why they dropped the longer first tango. This had been part of the fantasy sequence. The answer was that it didnt provide much new information. The same knowledge was in the dream ballet and the bits included now in the fantasy, was so much more informative. This primarily replacing the tango with the FIN If I only had 30 seconds to live, Id want to spend it looking into your eyes, scene. Part of that fantasy has Gabrielle telling Xena that she doesnt want to let go, and there is an obvious emotional struggle played out as is Xena going away (I think). - - While we were there Friday night, the house manager told us Creation had called and indicated an interest in holding a convention during the run of the play. Time will tell if it will come about. - - During the Q & A, the fans were told that they are now considering extending the play, but it depends on whether there is an audience for it. They encouraged us to get our friends and other fans to go. - - Lisa Velten (Aphrodite, Pig) was determined to be in the show and tried to prove in her audition. As we know, she was cast in the show. - - At the Bardcon dinner: Elizabeth stopped by and talked to the fans. It was noisy, despite Elizabeth using her stage voice and projecting as she might from the stage, so I couldnt hear everything, but what I could proved interesting. She said that nights performance had been good. There seemed to be a lot of fans there and they were responsive to all the bits in the show. Some comments that washed up and eddied was that planning for Episode 2 had begun before the finale aired. When they found out Xena had been killed, the attitude was OK, so? Di Bauden told them, No, she really was killed, shes really dead. I presume that they had to take that into account in the storyline they meant to do. Claudia Allen had originally intended to set the play in Egypt and bring in Ancient Egypts sacred animals, somehow that was transformed into barnyard animals. When she first read the script, Elizabeth wondered why the animals, but apparently Claudia felt there were more jokes to be gotten out of the barnyard animals than Egyptian animals. I was able to mention that one of my favorite lines was chicken stir fry, and she said she might be changing in future performances, that it might be time to make a change to something like chicken pot pie, or some such. - - I asked Amy how she learned Lucys Burial Song, since I dont believe it has ever been published as sheet music. Amy replied that she spent two days before the musical, playing the Xena CD and learning the song from that. I d say shes a pretty quick study. Ive hard Lucy sings it in Hebrew, but even if it is not, learning a song sung in a different language in a couple of days is pretty remarkable. - - Amy is the Executive Producer of the show and the mover and shaker to get the show into production. I dont believe anyone specifically asked why a theatrical version of the show, but Amy did say that all she wanted to do was be saved by Xena. I doubt she is the only one. I was never part of the early fandom for the TV show, so my impressions may be ignorant. I do get a sense that the theater production is very much like the early days of Xena, when the cast and crew were much more approachable and were not so famous that a barrier precluded them from interacting with the fans. But I do think there is much the same atmosphere surrounding these actors and the musical. One of the nice parts of the Bardcon weekend was that the fans who stayed after the Saturday performances could ask questions and talk to the actors. All of them looked tired. No wonder. They had spent 90 minutes earlier that day in a matinee, doing the same hard physical work, then had just performed the same show for us. We were only allowed about 30 minutes, but that was more than fair, since the actors had another performance Sunday evening. Some of it is promotion, but I think they enjoy meeting the fans and having a chance to chat with us. I can only thank all of the cast, crew, producers and theater staff for putting this show on. It may only be a theatrical version, but it is all XWP and great fun. bd ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #107 **************************************