From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #98 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Wednesday, April 17 2002 Volume 02 : Number 098 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] [chakram-refugees] Donations for upcoming auction [MistNY@aol.com] Thel By Any Other Name (was Re: [chakram-refugees] <>) [IfeR] [chakram-refugees] <> [] [chakram-refugees] Radio Tribute To The Music Of Kevin Smith, April 22 2002 [Meredith Tarr > [cr ] Re: Thel By Any Other Name (was Re: [chakram-refugees] <>) [cr ] [chakram-refugees] Re: Deliverer ["Cheryl Ande" ] [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #97 ["Cheryl Ande" > ["Cheryl Ande" ] [chakram-refugees] Herc & Xena--3d worst anim [KLOSSNER9@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Herc & Xena--3d worst anim [Mark & Denise Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Tuesday 16 April 2002 10:15, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/15/02 1:01:47 PM Central Daylight Time, > cande@sunlink.net writes: > > @ > @ > @ > @ > @ > @ > > << a rather abashed Gabrielle leaves Kraftstar and goes to Xena for a > sensative chat. Xena tells Gabby about her betrayal of Bodiaca and > Gabrielle turns away from her. An unusally reaction from Gabrielle - no > pep talk about Xena being a different person just silence and a sense of > disapproval. At this point Xena begins to distance herself from Gabrielle > and Gabrielle spends more time with Kraftstar. >> > > Wow. In one of your other reviews, you sensitized me to how Xena's > emotional distance created a vacuum, which may have helped Gabrielle get > sucked into Krafty's trap. But I hadn't thought about Gabrielle's own > amazingly detached response to Xena at this point. I guess both of 'em > missed some opportunities to maybe pull the other's coattail. (Just > thinking out loud here, Theo, not assigning blame or sensitivity demerits. > ) > > -- Ife Hah! It's usually abbreviated to Thel or Thelo (which sounds weird I know), I did consider using Theodorus instead (Callisto's lieutenant, he who was rapt on Callisto and who she killed disguised as Xena, it would have been quite appropriate as I was rapt on Callisto too), but I knew that would get abbreviated to Theo and there was already a Theo on Xenaverse, a German fan whose views on Gabby or was it subtext were so violently opposed to mine that I didn't want to run the risk of our being misquoted as each other, and who subsequently departed the list amongst high drama not that that's relevant, so I chose Thelonius being Ares' luckless general in The Quill Is Mightier. Clear? ;) By the way, I don't disagree with you. About Xena 'n' Gabs, I mean. ;) Theolonius ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:48:03 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Tuesday 16 April 2002 06:01, cande@sunlink.net wrote: > # > # > # > > # > ## > # > # > # > > Well The Deliverer begins an arc that fundalmentally changed the nature of > the series. Before this we had a basically light-hearted adventure series > but with this episode we began to explore the shattering effects of > violence, betrayal and lost innoncence. The rest of the series will deal > with how our two heriones deal with these issues. > > The Deliverer is a stunning episode. Director Oley Sasson effectivly > deceives the audience. We are lead to believe that we have simple episode > - main story- Xena fights Caesar and secondary story - Gabrielle gets > another wimpy boyfriend. Suddenly the secondary story is the main story - > the innocent Kraftstar is the true enemy he takes cruel advantage of > Gabrielle's trust and turns her goodness against her delivering her to rape > and murder. He begins the chain of events that culminate in the rift. I think that was the best trick played on the audience in the entire series. And I'd be surprised if there was anybody who wasn't completely taken in by it. Neat stuff! The only drawback is, we never really got to see what happened with the Boadicea vs Caesar battle. In fact, after The Deliverer, in Gabrielle's Hope, Boadicea's troops and the Romans seem to have just vanished. X and Gt visit a seaport which has every appearance of being undisturbed. You'd think they'd show some curiosity about how the battle turned out, wouldn't you? I think that's a bit of a YAXI, actually. Incidentally, of course, seeing as how the entire audience was fooled, makes it a bit more plausible that Xena could have been so thoroughly taken in by Khrafstar as well. (And of course Gabby but that was not so rare). T ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:23:21 EDT From: MistNY@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] Donations for upcoming auction I will be doing a auction to benefit the Kevin Smith Trust Fund in the next few weeks. Anyone wishing to donate something to be auctioned off on the S&S site for that event, please contact me soon and let me know. I have a lot of magazines so I'm asking that you please do not send me more unless they're rare or they are signed. Best, Mist http://sword-and-staff.com ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:01:36 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Thel By Any Other Name (was Re: [chakram-refugees] <>) In a message dated 4/16/02 6:26:38 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: << (Just > thinking out loud here, Theo, not assigning blame or sensitivity demerits. > ) > > -- Ife Hah! It's usually abbreviated to Thel or Thelo (which sounds weird I know), I did consider using Theodorus instead (Callisto's lieutenant, he who was rapt on Callisto and who she killed disguised as Xena, it would have been quite appropriate as I was rapt on Callisto too), but I knew that would get abbreviated to Theo and there was already a Theo on Xenaverse, a German fan whose views on Gabby or was it subtext were so violently opposed to mine that I didn't want to run the risk of our being misquoted as each other, and who subsequently departed the list amongst high drama not that that's relevant, so I chose Thelonius being Ares' luckless general in The Quill Is Mightier. Clear? ;)>> Um, sure. Chrystal. I'll try not to make that mistake again. By the way, I don't disagree with you. About Xena 'n' Gabs, I mean. ;) >> On second thought .... What's funny is, I got Thelonius mixed up with Callisto's second in command. I always fall out laughing when I think of him because of a post written by a French fan awhile back. If you recall, in Intimate Stranger, Callisto/Xena slits Whatshisname's throat and he kind of slides down her body. The fan apparently focused on the body sliding part, so thought Callisto/Xena actually killed Whatshisname with her lethally seductive hip. Ah, the French. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:42:34 -0400 From: Subject: [chakram-refugees] <> @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Gabrielle's Hope is one of the most controversial episodes of the series. Is Xena an incrediably insensitive potential baby killer? Is Gabrielle sailing down the river called Denial when it comes to baby Hope? Well I guess I'm going to equivocate a bit here but here goes. Is Xena an insenative lout? No, she is in fact as the episode opens very caring of Gabrielle. She treats Gabrielle's puzzeling illness with sensitivity and tries very hard to assuage Gabrielle's terrible guilt over killing Meridian. She is, of course, very concerned when Gabrielle discovers she is pregnant. When the baby is born she seems as relieve as Gabby when the baby seems to be a normal baby despite its combustible conception and speedy gestation. Xena, however, becomes concerned when Gabby rapidly recovers and announces that she filled with a "stange power". Xena and Gabby immediately clash over the child. Xena unable to take the child at face value warns Gabby that she will be watching the child's development. Gabrielle immediately warns Xena not come between her and her baby. Gabby is now unequivocably convinced of Hope's goodness. Xena's worst fears are confirmed when she finds Goren,the good knight, dead - apparently strangled by Hope. When Xena decides to kill Hope Gabby wakes and breaks with Xena and takes flight with Hope. The one question never answered is why did Hope kill the knight. Was it baby anger at a wet diaper? No I think it was a deliberate act. Hope may be a baby but I believe it had adult intellegence. It knew Xena would be watching her so she had to escape. Hard to escape as a toddler - so she arranged a set of circumstances in which her mother had to get her away from Xena. Murder seemed a good way - can't kill Xena mommy would be upset, but make Xena a threat and mommy would protect the baby. Xena falls into the trap she becomes as obessed as Gabrielle as she chases after Hope. She has forced Gabby to chose between Xena and Hope just what Hope wanted. Gabrielle is often accused of being naive about Hope. It is expected that Gabrielle would see the baby as good - after all the trauma it would be natural for Gabby to want to see something good come out of it. We also have to take in account that Hope is a supernatural child. Baby Hope grows quickly and may possibly have a strange power over everyone. Goren (?)the good knight seems entranced by the child and the other knight betrays them all by allowing the banshees in. Gabrielle is as concerned as Xena when she first discovers she is pregnant, fearing that she may carrying an evil being. She is also relieved when the child is normal but soon she seems unable to even contemplate that Xena's fears are realistic. I think it is possible that Gabrielle is being manipulated by Hope. Remember in Sacrifice, Hope was able to enthrall her followers - Seraphem is in a spell broken only when Hope was hurt. Why couldn't Hope latch on to Gabrielle's natural protective instincts intensify them and use them to protect it from Xena. Hope could manipulate both women by using their own personalities again them. Hope's uses Gabrielle's maternal instincts and her vulnerable state to make sure that she is kept safe. Xena plays into hands - she uses Xena's strong need to protect Gabrielle from evil to manipulate Xena into a course of action that will bring about a rift between the two women. A rift that destroys friendship and leads to rage and violence, just what Dahok wants for the world. CherylA PS; Lighter moments in this episode: Garielle's disgusting craving for sheep livers dunked ins goat cream ummmy. Xena's frustration at being unable to clobber the banshees. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:44:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Meredith Tarr Subject: [chakram-refugees] Radio Tribute To The Music Of Kevin Smith, April 22 2002 Hi, A friend just pointed me to this announcement on the web site of WFMU, a community radio station located in East Orange, New Jersey. > Tribute to Kevin Smith, TV Star of Xena, Warrior Princess > Monday, April 22nd, Noon - 3pm on John Allen's show Kevin > Smith, a.k.a. Ares of Hercules, died of complications from injuries > related to a movie set accident in February. The New Zealand > hunk of Maori > descent enjoyed relatively no level of success prior to his > acting career. > Regardless, he released over a half dozen records of lo-fi > pop and folk > music in the first half of the '80s which are comparable to the > professional amatuer releases on exclusive underground labels such as > Flying Nun and Rough Trade. Why was his music career hushed > over the years, > and why shortly after his death followed the announcement of > plans for an > ambitious re-issue effort to make available these long out of print > recordings by Smith's bands Say Yes To Apes, Hyphen-Smyth and > the Legacy of > Ears? Tune in at 1:30 pm. Here's a good Kevin Smith website ... > surabufix.simplenet.com/kevin.html The good news is, anyone can tune in! WFMU streams live via the Internet at http://www.wfmu.org. If you do live in the New York metro area, it's at 91.1 FM right around the City, and 90.1 FM in the Hudson Valley. I'm not sure how many connections their stream can handle, but I guess we'll find out. ;) A good test will be this evening: Harry Knowles of Ain't It Cool News is going to be a guest on the station tonight, and you know *that*'s generating some interest too. P.S. For our international friends: the time listed is Eastern Daylight Time. Meredith@work meth@smoe.org ===== Meredith Tarr RWA meredith_tarr@yahoo.com Reply To: meredith.tarr@telethinking.com Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:28:53 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Wednesday 17 April 2002 05:42, cande@sunlink.net wrote: > @ > @ > @ > @ > > @ > @ > @ > @ > @ > > (snipped all the serious stuff - most of which I agree with, btw) > > CherylA > > PS; Lighter moments in this episode: Garielle's disgusting craving for > sheep livers dunked ins goat cream ummmy. Xena's frustration at being > unable to clobber the banshees. Don't forget the business with Excalibur - when Xena pulls it out of the stone then puts it back. There was a neat 'blink-and-you-missed-it' moment in the background with the knights looking at it and obviously puzzling about it and trying to pull it out themselves. Nice touch. Thelonius ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:45:32 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: Thel By Any Other Name (was Re: [chakram-refugees] <>) On Wednesday 17 April 2002 04:01, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > > On second thought .... > > What's funny is, I got Thelonius mixed up with Callisto's second in > command. I always fall out laughing when I think of him because of a post > written by a French fan awhile back. If you recall, in Intimate Stranger, > Callisto/Xena slits Whatshisname's throat and he kind of slides down her > body. The fan apparently focused on the body sliding part, so thought > Callisto/Xena actually killed Whatshisname with her lethally seductive hip. > Ah, the French. > > -- Ife Yeah, that was Theodorus. Too bad he was in no condition to appreciate sliding down Callisto's body, being dead at the time. I wouldn't mind sliding... hrrrmm, where were we? Theolonius ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:46:16 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: [chakram-refugees] OT: Max Bickford OT Is anyone taping this show? A bud of mine, a SHY bud of mine, asked me to ask on line because she's missing two eps. Presumeably she wants to get copies. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 19:39:21 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: Deliverer Anne wrote: "This was where I was proud of the series because they didn't brush the emotional consequences of the character's actions under the carpet, they dealt with those consequences. If they had gone to a light comedy the following week as if nothing had happened then they would have lost the emotional truth of the action Gabrielle took." I agree. How many times in a series does some major catastrophy happen to a charcater and the next week nothing is ever said about it or is it ever referred to. The character remains unchanged. In Xena you see the characters progress from episode to episode. Gabrielle gets a little tough more sceptical. Xena a little softer more willing to trust. The changes are slow but they are there. The characters learn from their adventures. In Gabrielle's Hope, Gabrielle floats Hope down the river something she saw done in Cradle of Hope (hum odd coincidence there in the titles). It's never mentioned but it is obviously something Gabrielle remembered and used it save her child. This wan't the writers repeating themselves but a reference back to this episode. Remeber the kite in Day In The Life - Gabby uses a kite in the 5th season episode where Joxer is poisoned to signal Xena. I'm sure there are other examples. Can anyone think of others. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 19:51:14 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #97 Ife wrote: > Wow. In one of your other reviews, you sensitized me to how Xena's emotional distance created a vacuum, which may have helped Gabrielle get sucked into Krafty's trap. But I hadn't thought about Gabrielle's own amazingly detached response to Xena at this point. I guess both of 'em missed some opportunities to maybe pull the other's coattail. (Just thinking out loud here, Theo, not assigning blame or sensitivity demerits. ) I think both Gabrielle and Xena were beginning to take each other for granted a bit. Gabrielle by the third season is really confronting Xena's past and I think she is uneasy about it. Also Xena has really pump up Gabrielle's ego - Xena has assigned all the virtures to her - people like Gabrielle with turn the Horde peaceful, Gabrielle is so inately good evil Xena could never corrupt her, Gabrielle will never let hate rule her. It's no wonder Gabrielle begins to feel a trifle superior to poor rotten Xena - hasn't Xena told her enough times that this the truth. This isn't assigning blame to Xena - Xena is infatuated with Gabby - she is at the pint where we see the people we fall in love with as perfect. It's when we relize those people have faults that love is tested. We can accept the faults as well as the virtues tha's when love survives. Xena and Gabby in the 3rd season confront their faults in spectacular manner but in the end they have a better understanding of who their partner really is. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:07:43 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> cr wrote: " I think that was the best trick played on the audience in the entire series. And I'd be surprised if there was anybody who wasn't completely taken in by it. Neat stuff!" A great trick pulled off not only by Marton Csokas underplaying of the "good" Kraftstar but Joe DoLuca's great background music. Everytime Krasftstar talked about his one god the background music was very similar to the music heard in Giant Killer and Altared States thus leading the audience into assuming he was talking about the same god. " The only drawback is, we never really got to see what happened with the Boadicea vs Caesar battle." Well once Dahok reared his fiery heard Caesar sort of fades as a villian. But if I was Bodica I'd be really pissed at Xena but then again she if defeated Caesar she would get all the glory. Now thinking about it Caesar must have been defeated since Xena doesn't seem worried about him chasing after her during Garielle's Hope. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:21:35 EDT From: KLOSSNER9@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] Herc & Xena--3d worst anim Internet Moovie Database, http://us.imdb.com go down their home page, pick IMDB Top 50 by Genre that gets you a page which lists several genres; for each genre they list the top 50 films and the worst 10 films, according to votes by IMDB users. pick "animated" at bottom-- worst 10 animated films -- 3 Hercules and Xena - The Animated Movie: The Battle for Mount Olympus (1998) (V) 3.5/10 (63 votes) 3rd worst. Boeotian ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:58:23 -0500 From: Mark & Denise Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Herc & Xena--3d worst anim KLOSSNER9@aol.com wrote: > <>Internet Moovie Database, http://us.imdb.com > Hercules and Xena - The Animated Movie: The Battle for Mount Olympus > (1998) (V) 3.5/10 (63 votes) > 3rd worst. Gee -- I wonder why?? I was so turned off by the style of animation that I had no desire whatsoever to see the movie. I do remember reading some reviews that liked the storyline, but I can't imagine why they [whoever they may be ] decided to go with that style. Mark ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #98 *************************************