From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #97 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Tuesday, April 16 2002 Volume 02 : Number 097 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Eli was OK [Sojourner ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Bruce Campbel sighting [NZJester ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Eli was OK [cr ] [chakram-refugees] <> [] RE: [chakram-refugees] <> ["Ann Reddecliffe" > [IfeRae@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 07:20:23 +0100 From: Sojourner Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Eli was OK At 19:32 14/04/2002 -0400, KLOSSNER9@aol.com wrote: >/Most times, she probably would have been. Just that Gabby had >/spectacularly poor judgement in which strangers to trust.... Khrafstar, >/Najara, Aiden, Eli..... > >But there was nothing wrong with Eli, certainly not from Gabrielle's point >of view. Some fans didn't like him but I don't think that was at all >intended by the writers or cast. He was not evil like the others >mentioned and he stuck to his principles until he died for them. > >Gabrielle's picking him after Khrafstar, Najara and Aiden shows that she >never stopped trying, and that Xena should have had faith in Gabrielle's >maturing judgment. > >Boeotian Xena actually "picked" Eli first - she built the initial relationship with him in Devi. I don't think Xena ever cast Eli in the role of "gee Gabrielle look what a fine mess you've landed us in .... again." Sojourner ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 19:42:20 +1200 From: NZJester Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Bruce Campbel sighting At 06:57 PM 13/04/02 -0400, CherylA wrote: >the other night while flipping through my 500 satelite channels and finding >nothing on (how odd!?) I ran across a very interesting interview with Bruce >Campbell on EWTN (the Catholic channel - you know the one with all the priests >and that rather scarey nun - I haven't sene her for awhile I hope she's all >right) on the Christopher show. He talked about his family and wife and the >priest who interviewed seemed to be an Evil Dead fan. Xena wasn't mentioned >but Bruce talked about conventions and New Zealand in realtionship to hand >guns. It will probably be run again so keep a look out for it. It's amazing what ya can find while flipping channels was flipping channels the other month and saw the guy that played Eli on Xena on a old rerun of Seaquest Been a few people From Xena that had been on that show I also saw a NZ Music video by a band called Salmonella Dub on TV here the other day with Ted Rami in it I heard he was directing music videos it must have been one of his the song and video came out in NZ before Xena wrapped filming Catch ya later Jester My Home Page http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~nzjester/index.html New Xenaland http://www.angelfire.com/tv2/newxenaland/ ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:55:18 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Eli was OK On Monday 15 April 2002 11:32, KLOSSNER9@aol.com wrote: > /Most times, she probably would have been. Just that Gabby had > /spectacularly poor judgement in which strangers to trust.... Khrafstar, > /Najara, Aiden, Eli..... > > But there was nothing wrong with Eli, certainly not from Gabrielle's point > of view. Some fans didn't like him but I don't think that was at all > intended by the writers or cast. He was not evil like the others > mentioned and he stuck to his principles until he died for them. > > Gabrielle's picking him after Khrafstar, Najara and Aiden shows that she > never stopped trying, and that Xena should have had faith in Gabrielle's > maturing judgment. > > Boeotian I *wondered* if anyone would spot that Eli reference.... ;-) Now who got them crucified...? (If Xena had only had to bust Gabs out of jail, I rather think she would have managed it OK). Who helped in planting Eve/Livia on (in?) Xena, with all the consequent trouble that caused? Who was the original cause of Xena's war with the Greek gods, that got Eve stabbed and Gabby chakramed and would have got Gabby _and_ Eve killed if it hadn't been for Ares - yeah, good ol' bad ol' Ares! - intervention? On the whole, with friends like that, who needs enemies? ;-) Thelonius ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:07:18 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Eli was OK On Monday 15 April 2002 18:20, Sojourner wrote: > At 19:32 14/04/2002 -0400, KLOSSNER9@aol.com wrote: > >/Most times, she probably would have been. Just that Gabby had > >/spectacularly poor judgement in which strangers to trust.... Khrafstar, > >/Najara, Aiden, Eli..... > > > >But there was nothing wrong with Eli, certainly not from Gabrielle's point > >of view. Some fans didn't like him but I don't think that was at all > >intended by the writers or cast. He was not evil like the others > >mentioned and he stuck to his principles until he died for them. > > > >Gabrielle's picking him after Khrafstar, Najara and Aiden shows that she > >never stopped trying, and that Xena should have had faith in Gabrielle's > >maturing judgment. > > > >Boeotian > > Xena actually "picked" Eli first - she built the initial relationship with > him in Devi. I don't think Xena ever cast Eli in the role of "gee Gabrielle > look what a fine mess you've landed us in .... again." > > Sojourner Yeah but it was Gabs who got sold totally on his 'way of peace' (smoke compacts? how could we ever forget it.... :) Thelonius ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:01:05 -0400 From: Subject: [chakram-refugees] <> # # # # ## # # # Well The Deliverer begins an arc that fundalmentally changed the nature of the series. Before this we had a basically light-hearted adventure series but with this episode we began to explore the shattering effects of violence, betrayal and lost innoncence. The rest of the series will deal with how our two heriones deal with these issues. The Deliverer is a stunning episode. Director Oley Sasson effectivly deceives the audience. We are lead to believe that we have simple episode - main story- Xena fights Caesar and secondary story - Gabrielle gets another wimpy boyfriend. Suddenly the secondary story is the main story - the innocent Kraftstar is the true enemy he takes cruel advantage of Gabrielle's trust and turns her goodness against her delivering her to rape and murder. He begins the chain of events that culminate in the rift. He is the one who starts to drive a wedge between Gabrielle and Xena. There is a very interesting scene on board the ship. Gabrielle is teaching Kraftstar the sea sickness pinch and he is telling her about his one god. Gabrielle is very attentive to him and Xena interrupts them. She gives them a very odd look which could be seen as jealouly or annoyance. a rather abashed Gabrielle leaves Kraftstar and goes to Xena for a sensative chat. Xena tells Gabby about her betrayal of Bodiaca and Gabrielle turns away from her. An unusally reaction from Gabrielle - no pep talk about Xena being a different person just silence and a sense of disapproval. At this point Xena begins to distance herself from Gabrielle and Gabrielle spends more time with Kraftstar. I think Kraftstar has planted the seed of doubt in Gabrielle about Xena's warrior path and about Xena herself. Using these doubts he tells Gabrielle how he has overcome hate and violence with love, unlike Xena who is obesse! d with revenge against Caesar, winning Gabrielle's admiration and trust. Xena herself seems oddly accepting of Kraftstar's and his followers'presence amoung Bodiaca's army. She has been warned by Ares of the cult's dangers. Though Xena has good reason not to trust him, I would imagine that she might want to investigate further. Xena never asks some pertinent questions. Why are a band of non-combantants in the war camp? Why is Kraftstar, the priest of this peaceful god, out recruiting mercenaries, which is what he told X & G he was doing when they met him in Gaul? How did he and Gabby get separated from Bodiaca's army so they were captured by Caesar? There is no reason to suspect Kraftstar of being a demon but why doesn't she suspect that he might something other than he represents himself to be. The pacifist recruiting soldiers, the man who was with her best friend when she is captured by Xena's enemy, urgent warnings from Ares - there seems to a lot of warning bells here. Yet the ever skeptical Xena ignores them - is she just preoccupied or is she in some manner also being manipulated by Kraftstar? Is her hatred for Caesar being magnified by Kraftstar or Dahok so that she is oblivious to Dahok's plan. Afterall the monster Kraftstar says Dahok fed off her rage and hatred. Perhaps he intensified it also. Xena like Gabrielle falls victim to her most dominating virture - her unrelating focus of purpose. Gabrielle because of her goodness falls victim to evil and Xena because she so focused on a supposed threat she doesn't see the real one until it is too late. Next post will be about Gabrielle's Hope. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 20:25:57 +0100 From: "Ann Reddecliffe" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] <> # # # # ## # # # >>Well The Deliverer begins an arc that fundalmentally changed the nature of the series. Before this we had a basically light-hearted adventure series but with this episode we began to explore the shattering effects of violence, betrayal and lost innoncence. The rest of the series will deal with how our two heriones deal with these issues.>> For me this episode marked the turning point in the series and my reaction to it. This was the point where the characters reached the point of no return in their journey. The final scene, where Gabrielle is distraught and finally realises what Xena meant by telling her that "Everything changes" when you kill, marked a crossing of the rubicon for her. She had taken her quest to follow Xena further than she had ever thought possible. This was where I was proud of the series because they didn't brush the emotional consequences of the character's actions under the carpet, they dealt with those consequences. If they had gone to a light comedy the following week as if nothing had happened then they would have lost the emotional truth of the action Gabrielle took. She thought she was doing good - doing the right thing and finding out that her actions had consequences she had never foreseen. Her guilt and the way she was able to show it and overreact to it established her as the everyman character IMO. Very few people, if any, could walk away after their first kill. It was bold and some people hated it. This show was never about doing the comfortable and easy thing and I liked the roller coaster ride for all that. Ann ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 18:15:30 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> In a message dated 4/15/02 1:01:47 PM Central Daylight Time, cande@sunlink.net writes: @ @ @ @ @ @ << a rather abashed Gabrielle leaves Kraftstar and goes to Xena for a sensative chat. Xena tells Gabby about her betrayal of Bodiaca and Gabrielle turns away from her. An unusally reaction from Gabrielle - no pep talk about Xena being a different person just silence and a sense of disapproval. At this point Xena begins to distance herself from Gabrielle and Gabrielle spends more time with Kraftstar. >> Wow. In one of your other reviews, you sensitized me to how Xena's emotional distance created a vacuum, which may have helped Gabrielle get sucked into Krafty's trap. But I hadn't thought about Gabrielle's own amazingly detached response to Xena at this point. I guess both of 'em missed some opportunities to maybe pull the other's coattail. (Just thinking out loud here, Theo, not assigning blame or sensitivity demerits. ) - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #97 *************************************