From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #95 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Sunday, April 14 2002 Volume 02 : Number 095 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] Choosing to Die (was <>) [IfeRae@aol] [chakram-refugees] Re: The Deliverer [IfeRae@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] Bruce Campbel sighting ["Cheryl Ande" >) In a message dated 4/12/2002 7:56:18 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > On Friday 12 April 2002 08:43, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 4/11/2002 7:44:29 AM Central Daylight Time, > > > > cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > > On Thursday 11 April 2002 16:45, Mirrordrum wrote: > > > > > > > > > > X: "Gabrielle, in everyone's life, there's something that goes > > > > beyond the greater good. That's what you are in my life. I > > > > wasn't about to let you die out there if there was something I > > > > could do about it." > > > > > > > > G: "What if it was my choice?" > > > > > > > > X: "Especially if it was your choice." > > > > > > > > (thanks whoosh! transcript) > > > > > > > > i mean, what's that about? > > > > > > Oh yes, that was the one where Gabby killed Desert Boy by mistake. OK, > > > > what > > > was the point of Gabby dying there? > > > > Um, can you say "double standard"? I personally never added up the points > > of either of them dying. The only point that mattered to Xena was that it > > was okay for her to die anywhere, anytime, for whatever reason, but it was > > never okay for Gabrielle. She took away Gabrielle's choice in the matter > > whenever she could, completely unconcerned about how contradictory or > > arrogant it might seem. Maybe fans (and Gabrielle) wanted to see them as > > equal in that way, but Xena gave that thought only a passing nod. > > > > -- Ife > > Well, I disagree (surprise surprise! ;) > > In most cases when one or the other of them died, it was _not_ a voluntary > thing. I'm trying to recall any cases where either deliberately chose to > die, permanently for real, and I can only think of Gabs in Legacy and Xena > in > Friend in Need. (I may well have missed one or two though). Hmmm, don't know if being a warrior could be considered suicidal, but I do think Xena voluntarily put her life on the line all the time, never knowing if some lucky strike (like the one in Destiny, where she did want to die) might get past her formidable skills. She sure as heck was ready to die in Sacrifice, until Gabrielle beat her to it. I believe she thought she would die in The Debt and OAAA. She was willing at first to follow Gabrielle into the Amazon afterlife in Sin Trade, which presumably meant dying herself. She might well have let herself be executed, if that had been the judgement in Locked Up. As for Gabrielle, we've got Sacrifice and Ides as big-time voluntary opportunities to be killed. She didn't know for sure that Najara wouldn't kill her when she threw herself over Xena's body in Crusader. I saw many nearly impossible situations they voluntarily put themselves in, which could have resulted in their deaths. My point was that both Xena and Gabrielle accepted that Xena's "way" (or "line of work") didn't promote a long life. But even when Gabrielle became more of a warrior herself, I think Xena saw Gabrielle's "way" (e.g., love, friendship, compassion, faith) as a reason to live -- which meant that Gabrielle should continue on as a beacon. I don't recall Xena ever saying, "If one of us has to die, that's my job," but I'd be willing to bet that's what she thought. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 02:28:26 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: The Deliverer In a message dated 4/12/2002 7:56:11 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > Well, OK, what would have happened differently if Xena and Gabs had talked > about their feelings or whatever? I don't see that it would have made a > lot of difference. Xena (for whatever motive) went to Britannia to help > Boadicea fight Caesar. I rather think Gabs would have agreed with that, > given Khrafstar's obvious appeal to her. So they would have ended up in > Britannia anyway. And it seemed to me that Gabby was genuinely interested > in Khrafstar's little group (shades of Eli and his disciples?) and I imagine > it was by tacit mutual agreement between her and Xena that she ended up with > K and company. There's nothing in the episode to indicate that they had a > disagreement over it. And in view of Gabs' determination to not kill > people, her being elsewhere than a battle makes all sorts of sense. > > So I can't see what difference 'harmony' would have made, to be frank. Maybe "in tune" with each other would be more appropriate. They didn't need to do things the same way or agree, so much as be more aware and responsive. Xena was very cryptic about her trip to Chin, emphasizing the brutality and lust of her former life. She didn't reveal until later the reasons for the depth of her love and loyalty toward Lao Ma, which maybe Gabrielle might have understood. It's almost as if Xena purposely weighted the scales against Gabrielle's coming along and being a party to what went against Gabrielle's grain (and image of what she wanted Xena to be). If she'd trusted Gabrielle more, Gabrielle probably would've trusted Xena's judgement more and not felt compelled to go behind Xena's back. In Britannia, Xena was likewise cryptic and reluctant to allow Gabrielle any meaningful role to play. She pushed her away again. Xena may not have paid much attention to Krafstar precisely because he seemed a diversion for Gabrielle. Just as she later put aside her usual reservations with Najara and Aiden, Xena felt that, under the circumstances, Gabrielle was better off (e.g., safer, happier) with a stranger. Had she listened to a few sentences about Krafstar's "one god," Xena probably would've seen through his double-speak. Instead, she allowed Krafstar to play on her hatred for Caesar, just like she let him play on Gabrielle's attraction to his spiritual spiel. She never had time for a quick comparison of notes that might have made each realize something was amiss. Of course, if they'd done as I suggest, we wouldn't have had the provocative eps of season three. I wouldn't change for a minute the human frailties that led X&G to test the strength of their bond. I'm not criticizing Xena for failing to talk or Gabrielle for failing to listen. I'm simply saying that, in dissecting what happened, I do believe things could've played out differently (with less fallout) if they'd had more sensitive chats. - - Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 18:57:38 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Bruce Campbel sighting the other night while flipping through my 500 satelite channels and finding nothing on (how odd!?) I ran across a very interesting interview with Bruce Campbell on EWTN (the Catholic channel - you know the one with all the priests and that rather scarey nun - I haven't sene her for awhile I hope she's all right) on the Christopher show. He talked about his family and wife and the priest who interviewed seemed to be an Evil Dead fan. Xena wasn't mentioned but Bruce talked about conventions and New Zealand in realtionship to hand guns. It will probably be run again so keep a look out for it. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #95 *************************************