From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #81 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Friday, March 29 2002 Volume 02 : Number 081 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] Re: Recycled props-- & [mir] [chakram-refugees] Re: Recycled props-- & [mir] Re: [chakram-refugees] Recycled props-- & [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Recycled props-- & [Sek] Re: [chakram-refugees] Recycled props-- & [Mark] [chakram-refugees] OT: Secrets of Herculaneums ["M. Cornwell" & [mir] [chakram-refugees] Administrivia: Cross-Posting [meredith ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:54:50 -0500 From: mirrordrum Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: Recycled props-- & At 12:18 AM 3/28/2002 -0500, Trbl007@aol.com wrote: >Good call, but notice that the sword Xena uses to kill the guy is not the >same sword shown in close-up right afterwards :). uh, well, no i don't remember that. i rewound it oh, going on 3 or 4 thousand times and i thought it was in the close-up that i confirmed it. it has been going on 9 months now & a lot has transpired so my memory isn't terribly clear. seems to me that i first noticed it when lyceus was holding the sword because the whaddayacallit--what *is* that thing called that goes cross-wise--angled upward. athena's is the only sword, or at least one of the few, where the cross-guard (i finally looked it up) angles upward toward the hand. that has always seemed a very silly way to make a sword--seems as though it would direct a glancing blow toward the wielder rather than catching it. *shrug* i know nothing of swords. most of the angled cross-guards in xena are angled the other way. and then there are the ones that go both ways which is *really* silly b/c they'd be so heavy and i learned just now while looking up sword parts that the grooves in swords are to make them lighter. well, renaissance swords anyway. in any event, i expect i'll just have to check it out tomorrow. thanks for looking and inspiring me to seek further knowledge in xena. md G: "Please. . .please." X: "Oh, you're going to have to do better than that." ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 01:02:07 -0500 From: mirrordrum Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: Recycled props-- & At 09:28 PM 3/27/2002 -0800, Trish Shields wrote: > > >You know you are so cute when you do that 'or' bit, doncha, MD? what orbit? i don't think it's possible to be nearly 60 and cute but i'm glad you think so. heh. >I think you win the week's award for noticing trivial things that make the >Xenaverse such a fun place to visit. really? oh GOODY! i really have reached new heights of obsession. tonight i was fretting over b/c i don't think xena would ever have settled for a valkyrie role--i mean, exhorting the troops without being able to fight? pah! and then i was wondering if she did all that just for the rheingold and i suppose she'd have had to. ah, but she were a bad evil in those days. >And don't curl up too tightly to those sais or your partner might sigh and >you might be re-sized. Or is that seized? uh, well, i was planning on falling on them all by my lonesome. it's more doleful that way. you've no iDEa how nobbly and prickly sais are. really, so not the thing to cuddle up to. and cold. very cold. worse that wearing your armour to bed. why does xena DO that? i have to sleep now. thanks for coming out to play. :-) md ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:01:54 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Recycled props-- & On Thursday 28 March 2002 16:54, mirrordrum wrote: > hiyo sisters and brothers in xena-- > > was watching this evening and i do believe i had a recycled > prop moment. since i was watching on O2 not a tape, i couldn't rewind and > was too lazy to go dig a tape out and double check. however, in the scene > wherein xena and beowulf are coming upon the carnage at what i guess was > supposed to be hrothgar's hall--or it would have been if this had been the > story of beowulf and grendel rather than the story of xena and grindl > , Oh, md, you and your classical allusions... > the camera is following along almost at ground level and we > see a lot of bodies and muck and general wreckage. there's a sword hilt > sticking up at one point that i feel quite sure belongs to callisto's > sword. half the pommel is broken off. i think it was right before the > break, at the "this is the end of the line stay strong gabrielle" part. > The answer is (yes, I *had* to go and get out my tapes and watch it! :) - no, it isn't. They did have a sword design that was similar to Callisto's, with the elaborate hilt, but the crossbar (guard?) on the sword in question curves backwards from the blade. Callisto's sword has much bigger curly ends on the crossbar that curl forwards towards the blade. I've been fooled by those swords before now, too. But I draw the line at digging out Remember Nothing.... someone else can do that ;) By the way, and I've had this difficulty before, what are the parts of a sword called? There must be a site somewhere with an illustration that says 'this is the hilt, and this is the pommel', yadda yadda, but I've never found one yet and I'm all hazy about the terminology. Thelonius ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 02:16:31 EST From: Sekhmet209@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Recycled props-- & In a message dated 3/28/02 1:51:34 AM, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: >By the way, and I've had this difficulty before, what are the parts of a >sword called? There must be a site somewhere with an illustration that >says 'this is the hilt, and this is the pommel', yadda yadda, but I've never >found one yet and I'm all hazy about the terminology. The pointy part is the blade and the other part is the handle. ;-) Try this site (more info than anybody but md could possibly want... ) http://www.aiusa.com/medsword/glossary.html - --Sekhmet ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 01:20:50 -0600 From: Mark & Denise Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Recycled props-- & cr wrote: > By the way, and I've had this difficulty before, what are the parts of a > sword called? There must be a site somewhere with an illustration that says > 'this is the hilt, and this is the pommel', yadda yadda, but I've never > found one yet and I'm all hazy about the terminology. Here's hoping I'm right in the wee hours of the morning here.... The pommel is the base of the grip, below where the heel of your hand would rest The grip is... the grip -- between the pommel and the handguard The handguard/crossguard is at the base of the sword blade, between the blade and the grip The blade is the pointy thingie at the end opposite the pommel Mark > > > Thelonius > ========================================================= > This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with > "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. > Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. > ========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:29:27 -0500 From: "M. Cornwell" Subject: [chakram-refugees] OT: Secrets of Herculaneums This may be of interest _____________________________________________ Experts urge race against time to unearth last secrets of Herculaneums lost library Tim Cornwell Deputy Foreign Editor CUT OFF by a muddy pool fed by an ancient river, close to the bottom of an excavation 30 metres deep, archaeologists exploring a villa buried by the eruption of Vesuvius in AD79 have found two great doors of carbonised wood. Behind them could lie a lost treasure trove of Roman scrolls, scholars say, part of the celebrated lost library of the Villa of the Papyri. However, a unique chance to recover great classical masterpieces, lost to humanity for 2,000 years, could fall victim to flooding or a new blast from the volcano Vesuvius, they warn. The leading names of ancient Greek and Roman studies in Britain and the United States are pleading for urgent action before it is too late. The Villa of the Papyri is described as one of the greatest Roman villas discovered in the world. It was a jewel in the crown of the city of Herculaneum, which served as the luxury seaside resort for the neighbouring city of Pompeii. Once the property of the father-in-law of Julius Caesar, its awe-inspiring scale moved one of the modern eras richest men, John Paul Getty, to build a reconstruction in Malibu, California, and fill it with his extraordinary collection of Greek and Roman artefacts. In AD79, however, the volcanic eruption that buried Pompeii bought terror and death to Herculaneum. A blast of gas at an estimated temperature of 360C swept through the city. It carbonised bread sitting on the table, cupboards, doors, and people, and did the same for the villas precious books. Herculaneum was buried under 20 metres of volcanic mud, which hardened to the consistency of soft rock, and was later capped by the lava from successive eruptions. The villa was first discovered by well-diggers in the Bay of Naples more than 200 years ago. Early excavations dating back to the 1790s, much of it funded by George IV, then the Prince of Wales, turned up what were first thought to be sticks of charcoal However, they were recognised on closer inspection as scrolls, turned to charcoal in the first blast of the volcanos heat. Eventually they were partly unrolled. The heat that had seemingly destroyed them had actually preserved them. Work to pick out the charred ink of Latin and Greek began with early magnifying glasses. It picked up in the 1990s with multi-spectral imaging technology, first developed by the US space agency, NASA, to study minerals on planet surfaces. Scientists at the Brigham Young University in Utah, working with staff at the National Library in Naples, have continued to decipher writings from more than10,000 fragments, painstakingly unrolling and reading the documents. Most have turned out to be works of Greek philosophy, including writings of Epicurus missing for more than 2,000 years. But it is what lies hidden that is tantalising scholars. Early digs discovered only one level of the villa, with the scrolls; later excavations have shown at least four more levels. "They have discovered these huge doors on the second level," explained the archaeologist leading the dig, Francesca Auricchio. "They have small round windows, closed by glass, which was very precious. This means it was a very important part of the house." Investigation of a small area behind the doors suggests the rooms there are rich in paintings, statues, and mosaics, Ms Auricchio said. But far more compelling, in this case, is the prospect of finding copies of Virgils Aeneid, missing volumes of Livys History of Rome, or lost works by Sophocles or even Aristotle. The Villa of the Papyri has already yielded nearly 2,000 scrolls, but a substantial part of the only intact Roman library may lie undiscovered. "People are very concerned to save this thing," said Richard Janko, professor of Greek at University College, London. He was one of eight scholars who signed a recent letter pleading for the "vital excavations" at the villa to go ahead. "Flooding now poses a grave danger to the building and its contents," the letter warned. "The excavation must be completed, and the building preserved," it stressed. "Most importantly the books must be brought to light." Vesuvius last erupted in 1944; but with earthquakes in Naples in 1980, the risk of further eruptions is considered high. The novelist Robert Harris has added his voice to those pleading for a renewed excavation that experts say could cost #15 million or more. "In cultural terms," he wrote, "this is about as important as it gets." Many of the original scrolls turned up in boxes, with some scattered across the villas garden. It has led to visions of a desperate rush to save some of the precious library as the volcano exploded; less dramatic theories suggest that the scrolls were routinely moved from a storage area to a reading room. Prof Janko describes the current excavations as something out of Dantes Inferno; a great gash in the ground, 30 metres deep, with the water level at the bottom kept low by a pump. "There are actually walls sticking out of the water; the wooden doors are there, still intact, and we dont know whats behind," he told The Scotsman. "It was an enormously expensive excavation, and the money ran out. I think it cost $30 million [#20 million]. The Italian authorities feel, not without some justice, that they have a lot to look after already ." However, he added: "The reason we feel this site is special, is that it is the only place in the ancient world where we know that a library was buried in conditions that preserved it. "We have lots of ancient buildings, but a limited number of ancient works of literature, and this is the place we are most likely to find them." How the secrets of the scrolls are brought to light THE ANCIENT city of Herculaneum was destroyed in the same volcanic eruption that buried Pompeii in AD79. Whereas Pompeii was regarded as a commercial centre, Herculaneum is characterised as a seaside resort town with many wealthy residents. Hot mud that enveloped Herculaneum helped to preserve the buildings over 2,000 years. The partially excavated Villa of the Papyri, which was initially explored by the Bourbons through a series of tunnels in 1752, is where all 1,800-2,000 Herculaneum papyri were found. Windows that can be seen on the lower level would have faced the sea; scholars believe that other papyri may still be buried here on this level. Although they were excavated in the 18th century, many of the scrolls are so badly carbonised and compacted that scholars have not yet been able to unroll them or learn anything about their contents. The papyrus layers were rolled around a wooden rod, or umbilicus; many scrolls have a hole in the centre because the umbilicus is missing. Six of the scrolls were given to Napoleon Bonaparte as a gift, and a fragment of one of them is typical of the fragile condition of the carbonised documents. Despite the deteriorated condition of the Napoleon scrolls fragment, however, scholars have determined that it refers to the great Roman poet, Virgil. In the Officina dei Papiri at the National Library in Naples, scholars from around the world are working to read scroll fragments and produce or modify transcriptions of the ancient philosophical texts. In a one-year assignment, a team led by Steve and Susan Booras, of Brigham Young University, Utah, conducted multi-spectral imaging on carbonised scroll fragments at the National Library. The team imaged more than 10,000 fragments during a one-year assignment at the library, where the scrolls are stored. http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=332482002 - ---- Battle On!!! ;-) Mary _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:12:37 -0500 From: mirrordrum Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Recycled props-- & At 08:01 PM 3/28/2002 +1200, cr wrote: >On Thursday 28 March 2002 16:54, mirrordrum wrote: > > in the scene > > wherein xena and beowulf are coming upon the carnage at what i guess was > > supposed to be hrothgar's hall--or it would have been if this had been the > > story of beowulf and grendel rather than the story of xena and grindl > > , > >Oh, md, you and your classical allusions. um, i'd be more inclined to say classical illusions. i tell you i only explored beowulf b/c i knew the ring arc was upcoming. i'd read it when forced back in the dark ages of my youth. xena caused me to get seamus heaney's version and listen to it. i only know things are classics because people refer to them as classics. or if it's written in large print on the spine: CLASSIC. except for xena. nobody had to tell me *that's* a classic. > there's a sword hilt > > sticking up at one point that i feel quite sure belongs to callisto's > > sword. > > >The answer is (yes, I *had* to go and get out my tapes and watch it! :) - >no, it isn't. \ well thanks. you've saved me a passel of work. but i'm vaguely disappointed. >By the way, and I've had this difficulty before, what are the parts of a >sword called? i finally gave up and searched for "sword parts" (well, that's what i wanted) and found this site: http://www.historicalweapons.com/swordparts.html sekh's site is a lot better. as usual. drat. md ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 19:23:48 -0500 From: meredith Subject: [chakram-refugees] Administrivia: Cross-Posting Hi, Occasionally, a post will be cross-posted to chakram-refugees as well as another list (or lists). What ends up happening after this is twofold: - -- I get deluged with "non-member submission" bounces from people on the other lists who hit "reply all". - -- Continued "reply all" cross-posting of responses from the original poster to those responses on the other lists leads to very confusing posts here, because we're only seeing one part of the thread. I don't have a problem with something that's posted here getting posted to another list as well ... but please, send the post out individually to each list you're sending it to, instead of putting multiple list addresses in the "to" field of one message. That way the threads will stay where they belong. If anyone has any questions about this, please e-me directly. Thanks!! ======================================= Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth ======================================= Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://www.smoe.org/meth/muzak.html ======================================= (: New England Patriots - Super Bowl XXXVI CHAMPIONS :) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #81 *************************************