From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #76 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Saturday, March 23 2002 Volume 02 : Number 076 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Pronunciations [John Altoon ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Pronunciations [mirrordrum ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Pronunciations [cr ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:28:23 -0800 (PST) From: John Altoon Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Pronunciations - --- cr wrote: > On Thursday 21 March 2002 04:59, mirrordrum wrote: > > (snip) > > > > > i suspect that even the pronunciation "sigh" is an > > americanization When Romanized (transliterated into the western alphabet), Japanese words and names are spelled phonetically. Pronunciation is similar to Spanish, without the j-to-h convention and the rolled r's. Sai is pronounced "sigh." The long I sound in English is a diphthong consisting of the "ah" and "ee" sounds, as in the Spanish "bailando." To quote Jace in Lyre, Lyre. As I write this, I cant help but think that, in various parts of the English-speaking world, "sigh" is also pronounced "sah" or "soy." So the accuracy of the pronunciation depends. Renee's rendering of Higuchi as "high-gootchey" is notably Texas-football-coach. and that > > the correct pronunciation probably, as you suggest, makes it > > into two syllables "sah" and "ee" with the ending "i" slightly > > truncated by an aspiration. i've not done an extensive search, > > just a minor one for my own interest A simple general description of the written Japanese language, and the five basic vowel sounds: http://members.aol.com/writejapan/#hiragana and am going largely on my experience with isshinryu > > karate originated in okinawa by master tatsuo shimabuku. my > > instructors who had studied with him said "sigh" and "sighs" Japanese nouns are not pluralized. A single sai, in Japanese, would be "hitotsu no sai." A pair of sai would be "futatsu no sai." "Sais" is an English pluralization, and would probably also work in French or Spanish. In German, it might be something like "saie," and possibly "saii" in Italian. In Japanese, it's sai, whatever the quantity. but they pronounced "hai" as an > > almost two-syllable word--hah-ee but it's very different from > > english pronunciation of those two syllables. if you hit > > yourself in the abdomen and say "hai" at the same time, you > > kind of get the effect. "Hai" mean "yes" in Japanese. I imagine the word is spoken with a military intonation in a martial arts setting, but "hi" or "high," is close enough. that's how i'm > > assuming "sai" should properly be pronounced since i believe > > each japanese vowel has only one sound and the sound for "i" is > > "ee." and the words w/ "ii" apparently have both pronounced > > . "Ii" means good in Japanese. It sounds like the vowel sound in "thee." When "ii" occurs in a word or name, it becomes an accented syllable. For example, Fuji is pronounced with both syllables equally stressed, and Fujii is pronounced with the accent on the last syllable. i suppose i've now > > obfuscated this to the point of near oblivion. well, it was > > fun. > > > > i'd love to hear from someone who actually knows the answer and > > isn't making it all up as she goes along. > > > > md > > Yes, but dear md, you're so *convincing*. :) > > T She is. And usually correct, or very close. I made it through Japanese 2 in college, but that was mostly because the prof was kind and had a good sense of humor. - - ja Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards. http://movies.yahoo.com/ ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:03:28 -0500 From: mirrordrum Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Pronunciations JA, well i'll be bound. i figured if i camped out long enough in noisy ignorance eventually somebody knowledgeable would come out of the woods to teach me better manners. might have known it would be you. so it was worth all the mindless whittering after all. i wondered where you'd gone all this long time. At 10:28 AM 3/22/2002 -0800, John Altoon wrote: >--- cr wrote: > > On Thursday 21 March 2002 04:59, mirrordrum wrote: > > > > (snip) > > > > > > > > i suspect that even the pronunciation "sigh" is an > > > americanization > >Sai is pronounced "sigh." The long I sound in English is a >diphthong consisting of the "ah" and "ee" sounds, as in the Spanish >"bailando." To quote Jace in Lyre, Lyre. oooooh, nicely done, nicely done drawing in xener like that. yo te aplaudo! >As I write this, I can't help but think that, in various parts of >the English-speaking world, "sigh" is also pronounced "sah" or >"soy." So the accuracy of the pronunciation depends. Renee's >rendering of Higuchi as "high-gootchey" is notably >Texas-football-coach. mmmm, yes. a tasty point. i think like a californian tho i do live in the southeast. we might think of it as belle's version of higuchi. mind you, i think gabrielle might make a dandy football coach--or possibly a linebacker in a league for small persons. >Japanese nouns are not pluralized. A single sai, in Japanese, would >be "hitotsu no sai." A pair of sai would be "futatsu no sai." yes, this is all in accord with our some-years-ago discussions, i believe. well, i'm not sure about the "hitotsu" and "futatsu" part. i believe sais finally became common in the xenaverse b/c that's what they said on the show. and, as has oft been noted, speakers of western languages balk at not pluralizing nouns. and native speakers of japanese have trouble w/ the plurals, articles and gender differentiations of english. >"Sais" is an English pluralization, and would probably also work in >French or Spanish. In German, it might be something like "saie," >and possibly "saii" in Italian. In Japanese, it's sai, whatever the >quantity. and indeed, it turns out two sai would be an atypical quantity. i didn't know before xena that the normal number of sai was 3, 1 for throwing and 1 for hand-to-hand (usually hand to bo or sword or something). > >"Hai" mean "yes" in Japanese. I imagine the word is spoken with a >military intonation in a martial arts setting, but "hi" or "high," >is close enough. um, yes, it was used in our dojo as a greeting to the sensei (instructor) and was delivered with a definitely explosive exhalation and martial crispness. >i suppose i've now > > > obfuscated this to the point of near oblivion. well, it was > > > fun. > > > > > > i'd love to hear from someone who actually knows the answer and > > > isn't making it all up as she goes along. > > > > > > md > > > > Yes, but dear md, you're so *convincing*. :) i neglected to say "ta!" thelo. >She is. And usually correct, or very close. I made it through >Japanese 2 in college, but that was mostly because the prof was >kind and had a good sense of humor. huh! well i made it through german 2 in college because the professor did marvelous marlene dietrich impersonations and he lounged so languorously in the door (or on the desk) when he did them that one wanted desperately to hear more. goodness, he made miss artyphys look butch. a remarkable and courageous man, in my opinion, especially given that it was the 60's. and a fine teacher. i remember him fondly. thanks, JA, for the "true facts." lovely to hear from you. md ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:59:02 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Pronunciations On Saturday 23 March 2002 10:03, mirrordrum wrote: (mucho snippo - pardon my Spanish ;) > > >"Sais" is an English pluralization, and would probably also work in > >French or Spanish. In German, it might be something like "saie," > >and possibly "saii" in Italian. In Japanese, it's sai, whatever the > >quantity. > > and indeed, it turns out two sai would be an atypical quantity. i didn't > know before xena that the normal number of sai was 3, 1 for throwing and 1 > for hand-to-hand (usually hand to bo or sword or something). .... and one for ? If they had 3, where did they carry the third one? > > > > > > Yes, but dear md, you're so *convincing*. :) > > i neglected to say "ta!" thelo. I think it's all the abstruse and arcane facts you have at your fingertips. It lends such an air of verisimilitude to your posts. (I used that word - correctly - at work the other day and sent my colleague scurrying for his dictionary. Sweet revenge for him cacthing me out mispronouncing 'inbdubitably' the day before. And besides, 'verisimilitude' has six syllables, I challenged him to find a word with seven, but neither of us can so far. And as we were debating this I thought, "Lucy would use a word like that". She would, you know.) Thelonius ...sneaking back towards On Topic with a furtive glance at the list owner. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #76 *************************************