From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #74 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Thursday, March 21 2002 Volume 02 : Number 074 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Trivia question [mirrordrum ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Trivia question [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Trivia question [cr ] [chakram-refugees] Pronunciations [BElannafan@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] Today: March 20 - Spring Equinox ["M. Cornwell" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Pronunciations [mirrordrum ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Pronunciations [Taylor ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Trivia question [Sojourner ] [chakram-refugees] Ngila Dickson--imdb poll [KLOSSNER9@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] Been There, Done That comment [Mark & Denise ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Official Xena Fan Club Newsletter #18 UPDATE [mirr] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 01:02:53 -0500 From: mirrordrum Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Trivia question At 10:52 PM 3/19/2002 -0500, mirrordrum wrote: >At 09:16 PM 3/19/2002 -0500, Cheryl LaScola wrote: >>I don't usually reply but the trivia questions just beg to be >>answered...... >> >>1. Did RT know or guess at the # times our heroes died??? Don't know >>about Herc and Iolus but he was accurate with X & G... > >> 2. Xena died 5 times: Greater Good, Destiny, Ides, Coming Home and FIN. >>Gabs died 3 times: Doctor in the House, Sacrafice II, Ides. reflecting on various possible deaths--has "death" even got a xenaversal definition?--i was also contemplating the possibility that xena might have been clinically dead in when gab freezes in a pinch, so to speak, and can't manage to undo it. it was a lot longer than 30 seconds there. this may lead me to attempt to come up with possible xenaversal definitions of dying, death and dead. or not. if someone can be revived, are they in fact dead? if someone is reincarnated, doesn't that imply the necessity of prior death? if a day is repeating itself and you die in one of the repetitions, does it count as being dead even if you can't remember it as long as someone else does? if not, does that mean that people who have retrograde amnesia or who "die" and are revived w/out knowing it weren't really dead? if you end up in an afterlife where you have to be dead to get in, aren't you dead by definition? things like that. the endlessly ponderables of xena. md--pondering ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 01:59:28 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Trivia question On Wednesday 20 March 2002 17:03, Mark & Denise wrote: > Like the other posters, I have no idea about the Herc & Iolaus deaths.... > > Cheryl LaScola wrote: > > 2. Xena died 5 times: Greater Good, Destiny, Ides, Coming Home and FIN. > > Gabs died 3 times: Doctor in the House, Sacrafice II, Ides. > > I cussed and discussed with some buddies and here's what we came up with: > > Gabrielle -- 'Doctor in The House', 'Ides of March', 'Been There, Done > That', 'Motherhood' > > Xena -- 'Destiny', 'Ides of March' 'Been There, Done That', Coming Home > > We also had a couple of 'Gee, do these count' eps too: > > In Bitter Suite, do X&G die and come back? For that matter, when X stabs G > in Illusia with her sword --- does that count??? > > Did X actually die in 'When Fates Collide'? > > Could G's destroying the tapestry of the Fates have negated that death? > Do you want to count 'Greater Good' when Xena 'dies'?? > > Mark OK, this is my answer (which is just as much 'opinion' as anyone else's) The number of Xenadeaths is.... somewhere between 3 and 9. ;-) Yeah, no kidding. The number I favour is six - same as Rob Tapert (his 'five' pre-dated FIN, so I assume his final total would be 6). But this is probably coincidence, his six could be quite different. The 3 'definite' incontrovertible ones are in Destiny, Ides of March and Friend in Need. The other possibilities, some of which I don't think really count, are The Greater Good (IMO, Xena was 'out' but not dead) Intimate Strangers (sneaky one this - Xena ended up in Callisto's body in Tartarus, and since Callisto had died to get there, I think this means Xena must have been 'dead' at that point too. So I count this one) Been There, Done That - OK, Xena did die, but it was cancelled next day, which implies the previous day didn't really happen - so I count it, but it's a debateable case. Sin Trade (when she puts the pinch on herself and the Ewokazons - "What are you doing?" "Killing us"). Regardless of her words, it's a little doubtful if she really killed herself at that point, or just put herself 'under'. Coming Home - did Xena really drown? I think it was an example of the 'drowning reflex' (I think it's called), when someone drowns in really cold water, their body shuts down its normal processes and people have been revived after half an hour with no ill effects instead of brain death occurring in the usual four minutes. Or something like that. When Fates Coillide - apparently, according to Katherine Fugate, Xena really did die on the cross. However, this was another 'alternate reality' which Gabs cancelled. So, does it count? I count it - sometimes ;) Confused? No more so than Hades - just think what a mess his books must be in. MD mentioned Haunting of Amphipolis, but I can't remember that incident. I don't count Xena's visits to Tartarus in Mortal Beloved or God Fearing Child, since she had her return ticket booked, or her two visits to the Land of the Dead in Sin Trade (with Alti to see Anokin, and to meet Cyane), for the same reason. Gabrielle is a bit more definite. Doctor in the House, I discounted but apparently she saw the Elysian Fields so must have been dead. Been There, Done That - twice. Ides of March Motherhood (well spotted!). We don't know 100% that Gabs was dead, but certainly Eve was since Xena lost her powers, so it's reasonable to assume that Gabs was too. Bitter Suite I don't think counts - they fell off a cliff but there's no evidence they really died. And Xena killing Gabs - that was definitely an illusion she killed. However, there's another one - in Armageddon Now, evil Xena crucified alternate Gabrielle.... but the whole timeline got cancelled when Iolaus saved Herc's mother from Callisto before Herc was born (OK, you had to be there :), and besides it was on the Other Show, so I guess doesn't count. Are there any I've missed? Thelonius ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 01:22:26 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Trivia question On Wednesday 20 March 2002 18:02, mirrordrum wrote: > > reflecting on various possible deaths--has "death" even got a xenaversal > definition? I think you've got to the root of the problem.... ordinary real-world events with unambiguous meanings suddenly go all fuzzy round the edges when they hit the Xenaverse :) > i was also contemplating the possibility that xena might have > been clinically dead in when gab freezes in a pinch, so to speak, > and can't manage to undo it. it was a lot longer than 30 seconds there. > Hmm, hadn't thought of that one > this may lead me to attempt to come up with possible xenaversal definitions > of dying, death and dead. or not. if someone can be revived, are they in > fact dead? if someone is reincarnated, doesn't that imply the necessity of > prior death? if a day is repeating itself and you die in one of the > repetitions, does it count as being dead even if you can't remember it as > long as someone else does? if not, does that mean that people who have > retrograde amnesia or who "die" and are revived w/out knowing it weren't > really dead? if you end up in an afterlife where you have to be dead to get > in, aren't you dead by definition? things like that. the endlessly > ponderables of xena. > > md--pondering Oh dear, what *have* I started? ;-) Thelonius -- wondering ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:25:45 EST From: BElannafan@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] Pronunciations Not finding either in the dictionary, how do you pronounce Delphi & Sais I think Delphi has a long 'i' sound. And Sais, I have always pronounced in two syllables; First one sounds like 'sigh', with a long 'i' and second like 'ees', with a long 'e'. Put together as 'Sighees' accent on the ees. Are these correct? or does it depend on who you talk to regarding the pronunciation? ============================================================ Consideration is given, Respect is earned, Jan. You know you're a redneck Jedi when Darth Vader says' "Come with me, Luke. I am your father and your uncle." ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:33:27 -0500 From: "M. Cornwell" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Today: March 20 - Spring Equinox Spring Equinox (by Waverly Fitzgerald) The spring equinox is one of the four great solar festivals of the year. Day and night are equal, poised and balanced, but about to tip over on the side of light. The spring equinox is sacred to dawn, youth, the morning star and the east. The Saxon goddess, Eostre (from whose name we get the direction East and the holiday Easter) is a dawn goddess, like Aurora and Eos. Just as the dawn is the time of new light, so the vernal equinox is the time of new life. The New Year In many traditions, this is the start of the new year. The Roman year began on the ides of March (15th). The astrological year begins on the equinox when the moon moves into the first sign of the Zodiac, Aries, the Ram. The Greek God Ares is equivalent to the Roman Mars for whom the month of March is named. Between the 12th century and 1752, March 25th was the day the year changed in England and Ireland. March 25, 1212 was the day after March 24, 1211. The Coming of the Spring Although we saw the first promise of spring at Candlemas in the swelling buds, there were still nights of frost and darkness ahead. Now spring is manifest. Demeter is reunited with her daughter, Kore (the essence of spring), who has been in the Underworld for six months and the earth once again teems with life. The month of March contains holidays dedicated to all the great mother goddesses: Astarte, Isis, Aprhrodite, Cybele and the Virgin Mary. The goddess shows herself in the blossoms, the leaves on the trees, the sprouting of the crops, the mating of birds, the birth of young animals. In the agricultural cycle, it is time for planting. We are assured that life will continue. Gilbert Murray in Five Stages of Greek Religion writes about the passion behind the Greek celebration of Easter: Anyone who has been in Greece at Easter time, especially among the more remote peasants, must have been struck by the emotion of suspense and excitement, with which they wait for the announcement, Christos aneste, Christ is risen! and the response Alethos aneste, He has really risen! [An old peasant woman] explained her anxiety: If Christ does not rise tomorrow we shall have no harvest this year. We are evidently in the presence of an emotion and a fear which, beneath its Christian colouring and, so to speak, transfiguration, is in its essence  a relic from a very remote pre-Christian past. Resurrection from the Dead Murray then goes on to recount the myths of the Year Gods - Attis, Adonis, Osiris and Dionysus - who like Christ die and are reborn each year. These gods are always the son of a God and a mortal woman. The son is a savior who saves his people in some way, sometimes through sacrifice. He is the vegetation, dying each year (at harvest) to be reborn in the spring. In ancient Rome, the 10-day rite in honor of Attis, son of the great goddess Cybele, began on March 15th. A pine tree, which represented Attis, was chopped down, wrapped in a linen shroud, decorated with violets and placed in a sepulchre in the temple. On the Day of Blood or Black Friday, the priests of the cult gashed themselves with knives as they danced ecstatically, sympathizing with Cybele in her grief and helping to restore Attis to life. Two days later, a priest opened the sepulchre at dawn, revealing that it was empty and announcing that the god was saved. This day was known as Hilaria or the Day of Joy, a time of feasting and merriment. Sound familiar? Easter is the Christian version of the same myth. Even the name Easter is stolen. It comes from the Saxon dawn-goddess Eostre, whose festival was celebrated on spring equinox. The date of Easter is still determined by the old moon cycle. It is always the first Sunday on or after the first full moon after the spring equinox. Eggs and Seeds Eggs are one of the symbols of this festival since they represent new life and potential. Folklore tells us (combining two themes of the season) that eggs balance on their ends most easily at equinox. Z Budapest in Grandmother of Time says that eggs were dyed red (the color of life) on the Festival of Astarte (Mar 17). The beautifully decorated eggs from the Ukraine (pysanky) are covered with magical symbols for protection, fertility, wisdom, strength and other qualities. They are given as gifts and used as charms. Seeds are like eggs. While eggs contain the promise of new animal life, seeds hold the potential of a new plant. In ancient Italy in the spring, women planted gardens of Adonis. They filled urns with grain seeds, kept the in the dark and watered them every two days. This custom persists in Sicily. Women plant seeds of grains  lentils, fennel, lettuce or flowers  in baskets and pots. When they sprout, the stalks are tied with red ribbons and the gardens are placed on graves on Good Friday. They symbolize the triumph of life over death. Celebrating Blend ideas from the many traditions described above to create your own ceremony to honor the spring. Decorate with budding twigs, flowers, willow catkins, sprouting bulbs. Red and green are the colors of this festival. Red represents blood, the blood of sacrifice and life. Green symbolizes the growth of the plants. Honor various spring deities with their flowers: Narcisus and Hyacinth with those blooms, the red anemone for Adonis, violets for Attis, roses and lilies for the goddesses. This is the traditional time for a great spring feast and the decoration of the table is as important as the food. There are many traditions from which to choose: Nawruz, Passover, Easter, St Joseph's Day, Maimuna  all are variations on the theme of the spring feast, in which every item is symbolic. Helen Farias in her seasonal newsletter, Octava, points out that certain foods are associated with springtime festivals: cheese, butter, eggs, pancakes, wheaten cakes, hot cross buns. Since this is a time when young animals are being born, milk is now available for making cheese and butter. In Poland, according to Dorothy Spicer in The Book of Festivals, a little lamb made of butter or sugar is placed in the center of the Easter table, which is laden with food and decorated with eggs, red paper cut-outs and festoons of green. Eggs symbolize new life, of course, and wheaten cakes, grain. In Italy, colored eggs are baked in braided loaves of bread on Easter, combining the two symbols. Hot cross buns, a traditional Easter food, may be very ancient. A wheaten cake marked with a cross was found in Herculaneum, preserved since 79, and may have been used in the spring rites. - ---------- Corrie Battle On!!! ;-) Mary _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:34:34 -0800 (PST) From: Meredith Tarr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Pronunciations Hi, BElannafan inquired: > Not finding either in the dictionary, how do you > pronounce Delphi & Sais > > I think Delphi has a long 'i' sound. According to http://www.dictionary.com, you are correct. :) > And Sais, I have always pronounced in two syllables; > > First one sounds like 'sigh', with a long 'i' and > second like 'ees', with a ong 'e'. Put together as 'Sighees' accent on the ees. This pronunciation would be closer to the ancient Egyptian city of Sais. As far as Gabrielle's weapons go, everything I have read and heard indicates that the final "s" is silent, so it's just "sigh". Someone with a better knowledge of Japanese martial arts implements than I can please step in and correct me if I'm wrong. :) Happy Spring (says she, looking out the window at the snow falling down :P)! Meredith@work meth@smoe.org Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/ ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:45:04 -0500 From: mirrordrum Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Trivia question At 01:22 AM 3/21/2002 +1200, cr wrote: >On Wednesday 20 March 2002 18:02, mirrordrum wrote: > > > > > reflecting on various possible deaths--has "death" even got a xenaversal > > definition? > >I think you've got to the root of the problem.... ordinary real-world >events with unambiguous meanings suddenly go all fuzzy round the edges when >they hit the Xenaverse :) pooh, they don't stop with the edges. they fuzz all the way through. > > i was also contemplating the possibility that xena might have > > been clinically dead in when gab freezes in a pinch, so to speak, > > and can't manage to undo it. it was a lot longer than 30 seconds there.> > >Hmm, hadn't thought of that one oh well it's all so. . .fuzzy. >Oh dear, what *have* I started? ;-) well whatever it is, i feel quite sure it was unintentional. heh! md ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:59:24 -0500 From: mirrordrum Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Pronunciations At 09:25 AM 3/20/2002 -0500, BElannafan@aol.com wrote: >Not finding either in the dictionary, how do you pronounce >Delphi >& >Sais > >I think Delphi has a long 'i' sound. http://iam.classics.unc.edu/loci/16/16_brf.html they pronounce it for you and say "delfee." merriam webster offers both the, presumably, american and then the greek pronunciations. american w/ a long i and greek w/ dh pronounced as "th" and "phi" (phoi) pronounced as fE. http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/netdict?delphi Main Entry: Del7phi Pronunciation: 'del-"fI Usage: geographical name ancient town central Greece in Phocis on S slope of Mt. Parnassus near present village of Dhel.fom /[th]el-'fE/ american heritage, which i consider something of an abomination, just says "del fI." i don't know why bartleby uses them. bah! i can't get to oxford, blast it. >And Sais, I have always pronounced in two syllables; >First one sounds like 'sigh', with a long 'i' and second like 'ees', with a >long 'e'. Put together as 'Sighees' accent on the ees. americanized pronunciation of sai = "sigh" or the further americanization, "sighs". in japanese, there are no plurals so the correct plural of sai is sai. however, americans are more comfortable adding the "s" to make it plural, hence "sais." in the xenaverse, it's sais (pronounced "sighs"). we had a looooong discussion about this on chakram during the summer pre-season 4. >Are these correct? or does it depend on who you talk to regarding the >pronunciation? i suspect that even the pronunciation "sigh" is an americanization and that the correct pronunciation probably, as you suggest, makes it into two syllables "sah" and "ee" with the ending "i" slightly truncated by an aspiration. i've not done an extensive search, just a minor one for my own interest and am going largely on my experience with isshinryu karate originated in okinawa by master tatsuo shimabuku. my instructors who had studied with him said "sigh" and "sighs" but they pronounced "hai" as an almost two-syllable word--hah-ee but it's very different from english pronunciation of those two syllables. if you hit yourself in the abdomen and say "hai" at the same time, you kind of get the effect. that's how i'm assuming "sai" should properly be pronounced since i believe each japanese vowel has only one sound and the sound for "i" is "ee." and the words w/ "ii" apparently have both pronounced . i suppose i've now obfuscated this to the point of near oblivion. well, it was fun. i'd love to hear from someone who actually knows the answer and isn't making it all up as she goes along. md ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:35:03 -0700 (MST) From: Taylor Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Pronunciations On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, mirrordrum wrote: At 09:25 AM 3/20/2002 -0500, BElannafan@aol.com wrote: >Not finding either in the dictionary, how do you pronounce >Delphi >& >Sais > >I think Delphi has a long 'i' sound. http://iam.classics.unc.edu/loci/16/16_brf.html they pronounce it for you and say "delfee." merriam webster offers both the, presumably, american and then the greek pronunciations. american w/ a long i and greek w/ dh pronounced as "th" and "phi" (phoi) pronounced as fE. http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/netdict?delphi Main Entry: Del7phi Pronunciation: 'del-"fI Usage: geographical name ancient town central Greece in Phocis on S slope of Mt. Parnassus near present village of Dhel.fom /[th]el-'fE/ american heritage, which i consider something of an abomination, just says "del fI." i don't know why bartleby uses them. bah! i can't get to oxford, blast it. >And Sais, I have always pronounced in two syllables; >First one sounds like 'sigh', with a long 'i' and second like 'ees', with a >long 'e'. Put together as 'Sighees' accent on the ees. americanized pronunciation of sai = "sigh" or the further americanization, "sighs". in japanese, there are no plurals so the correct plural of sai is sai. however, americans are more comfortable adding the "s" to make it plural, hence "sais." in the xenaverse, it's sais (pronounced "sighs"). we had a looooong discussion about this on chakram during the summer pre-season 4. >Are these correct? or does it depend on who you talk to regarding the >pronunciation? i suspect that even the pronunciation "sigh" is an americanization and that the correct pronunciation probably, as you suggest, makes it into two syllables "sah" and "ee" with the ending "i" slightly truncated by an aspiration. i've not done an extensive search, just a minor one for my own interest and am going largely on my experience with isshinryu karate originated in okinawa by master tatsuo shimabuku. my instructors who had studied with him said "sigh" and "sighs" but they pronounced "hai" as an almost two-syllable word--hah-ee but it's very different from english pronunciation of those two syllables. if you hit yourself in the abdomen and say "hai" at the same time, you kind of get the effect. that's how i'm assuming "sai" should properly be pronounced since i believe each japanese vowel has only one sound and the sound for "i" is "ee." and the words w/ "ii" apparently have both pronounced . i suppose i've now obfuscated this to the point of near oblivion. well, it was fun. i'd love to hear from someone who actually knows the answer and isn't making it all up as she goes along. md Wow, md, you did a great job with all the research you put in to this. I don't know there's any "right" answer to how to pronounce these words. No one has spoken Ancient Greek or Latin as a natural language for centuries. Attempts to decide things are based on their resemblance to modern words and modern usage, which accounts for the wide variety of pronunciations you can get. But think of it this way: no one can say you're absolutely wrong, either! :) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 19:48:54 +0000 From: Sojourner Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Trivia question At 22:52 19/03/2002 -0500, mirrordrum wrote: >xena even tells us in that she knows gabrielle's alive b/c of her vision of gabrielle's crucifixion. No - she tells us she knows that Gabby is alive in the future. Not the same thing. >also i've never thought xena actually died in "greater good." remember, >she says something to gabrielle like "i'm sorry i scared you. . .i just >had to go under with it so i could fight the fx"--you know how she does that. Oh she fibbed to avoid a screaming argument with her girlfriend.... I woulda said the same - honest. >and i was never sure that i wouldn't count her crossing of the river styx > as tantamount to being dead. i mean, how much deader can you be than >crossing the styx and hanging out in tartarus? Um - dead means not coming back at all? Visiting didn't count in AITST so it shouldn't count here. >as thelo says, these things are really more matters of opinion and grist >for the mill than fact. YOU SAID FACT in a post about Xena!! Holy moly - three press-ups and a hail mary. NOW WOMAN!!! Liz ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:31:51 -0800 From: "Creation (Sharon Delaney)" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Official Xena Fan Club Newsletter #18 UPDATE Just an update on issue #18 (which is part of the new fan club kit #5). It is a tribute issue to Kevin Smith containing interviews with Lucy, Renee, Rob, Michael Hurst, Bruce Campbell, Ted Raimi, Alex Tydings, Claire Stansfield, Adrienne Wilkinson and Tim Omundson. Lots of pics and a commentary on all the Ares episodes from Xena. Also information about the Kevin Smith Trust Fund set up at the Auckland Theatre to help Kevin's family. This was a tough issue to write and there were many tears during the interviews. I hope it makes a good memory for all Kevin's fans. It will be going in for approval tomorrow. I'm off for a short vacation and as soon as I get back, it will go into production. Sharon Official Xena Fan Club http://www.creationent.com (Creation home page) (join Creation's email mailing list on our home page for the latest news and convention and merchandise info) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 19:34:09 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: Trivia It seems we are having a tough time defining "dead" in the Xenaverse. Well I guess I'll way in on the matter. Dead defined as going off to the netherworld (after injury not just to visit ) or being a spirit of some sort: Xena - Destiny, Ides, FIN : Gabrielle - Doctor in the House (she was in Elysia remember she met her uncle and Talus, the first red shirt), Ides. Dead but in an alternative timeline: Xena - Been There. Done That Gabrielle - - twice in Been There (once solo and once with Joxer and Xena) When Fates Collide is up in the ait I don't know if destroying the known world counts as being dead or not. Really badly hurt and possibly comotose or maybe dead but not really, really dead - Xena - The Greater Good, Coming Home : Gabrielle - Motherhood Sacrafice 2 - Gabrielle was merely missing in action. I opt for Gabby being accidently saved by Dahok when Hope was saved. Don't accept Ares pathetic story in Soul Possession - nope never well . Don't know about Hercules but I did see Iolus dead at least twice - once killed in Babylonia and once he was in Tararus with his Dad. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:18:35 EST From: KLOSSNER9@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] Ngila Dickson--imdb poll Internet Movie Database took a pool on who will win the Oscars. http://us.imdb.com/RTO/Polls/oscarpoll Ngila Dickson and her colleague on Lord of the Rings won for Best Costume with a good 51%, though not too far ahead of Moulin Rouge with 39%. IMDB also had a poll for who should win. The results were similar in the catagories in both polls, but Costume was not included in the "should win" poll, just the "will win" poll. http://us.imdb.com/RTO/Polls/bestof2001 Boeotian ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 19:24:54 -0600 From: Mark & Denise Subject: [chakram-refugees] Been There, Done That comment Thinking about BTDT and my [reputedly] warped mindset.... Every time I watch the ep I think of this. Version 1 - Joxer killed and the next scene is Joxer's funeral pyre. Version 2 - Argo killed and the very next scene cuts to a fire. My first thought is *always* 'this must be Argo's funeral pyre! Mark ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:09:03 EST From: HawkFalco@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Trivia I might as well add my two cents: I'm darn sure they're both dead, real dead when they go off the cliff in The Bitter Suite. Then they enter a sort of purgatory orchestrated by Solan where they each have one last chance to review their respective behaviors and get their acts together. If they fail, they stay dead. If they enter into a space of forgiveness for each other, forgiveness for themselves and allow their hearts to be ruled once again by love, they get a second chance. Love wins the day and hence, they "wake up" on the beach. The whole story is a whole lot more convoluted than that with a heck of a lot more going on. But that's what I get out of it. In a nutshell. A very small nutshell. Hawk ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:51:48 -0500 From: mirrordrum Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Trivia question At 07:48 PM 3/20/2002 +0000, Sojourner wrote: >At 22:52 19/03/2002 -0500, mirrordrum wrote: > > >xena even tells us in that she knows gabrielle's alive > b/c of her vision of gabrielle's crucifixion. > >No - she tells us she knows that Gabby is alive in the future. Not the >same thing. i didn't say it was the same thing, smarty boots. i said she tells us, well actually she tells us via joxer, that gabrielle's alive. she said to joxer "gabrielle's alive." those are her words. she said 'em, not i. and xena said she knew b/c of a vision. she didn't say anything about the future. now, we realize it's in the future but that's not what she said. neener neener neener. and anyway, the other and more trenchant part of my point was that she didn't die b/c she either fell into a niche or was bankrolled, so to speak, by ares. point is she fell down. she didn't die. >>also i've never thought xena actually died in "greater good." remember, >>she says something to gabrielle like "i'm sorry i scared you. . .i just >>had to go under with it so i could fight the fx"--you know how she does that. > >Oh she fibbed to avoid a screaming argument with her girlfriend.... fibbed about which part, the "i'm sorry i scared you" or the "i had to go under"? i'll buy that she wasn't *really* sorry she scared gabrielle. she was probably hiding behind a nearby shrub watching gab abuse the tree and laughing. > I woulda said the same - honest. i'll just bet you would, too. but my take is she didn't die, she just yawned out for awhile and woke up *just* in time to save argo. i never could figure out how her hand and arm arose at that angle to grab the sword. maybe she levitated. i'm sure she could if she wanted. >>and i was never sure that i wouldn't count her crossing of the river styx >> as tantamount to being dead. i mean, how much deader can you be than >>crossing the styx and hanging out in tartarus? > >Um - dead means not coming back at all? Visiting didn't count in AITST so >it shouldn't count here. oh, you mean like how everything is consistent in the xenaverse, ms. do-3-push-ups-and-a-hail-mary? i once did 40, and that's a fact. and they weren't girlie ones either. i never could do more than 2 pull-ups though. tarsome. >>as thelo says, these things are really more matters of opinion and grist >>for the mill than fact. > >YOU SAID FACT in a post about Xena!! Holy moly - three press-ups and a >hail mary. NOW WOMAN!!! pish. i'll arrange flowers for you or give you tea but i shan't do any pressing. it's a samurai thing. however, you're correct that it was a very poor choice of words. how about rule, law, criterion, or standard (thank you, roget). so how many times do *you* think they died? md ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 22:15:12 -0500 From: mirrordrum Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Official Xena Fan Club Newsletter #18 UPDATE At 03:31 PM 3/20/2002 -0800, Creation (Sharon Delaney) wrote: >Just an update on issue #18 (which is part of the new fan club kit #5). this is a good, though hard, thing. i was watching the other day and just lost it during ares' and xena's ep-ending interchange. i so thoroughly enjoyed him in that ep (and throughout the series) and very much liked the ending. it was strange to watch it, though, very strange. it will be helpful to read what people have to say about him. i hope it was helpful for those interviewed to reminisce a bit--or whatever they did. it has to be terribly hard to have lost him so suddenly. thanks sharon. md ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #74 *************************************