From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #65 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Sunday, March 10 2002 Volume 02 : Number 065 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Speaker's Fees II [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: [cr [Sojourner ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Speaker's Fees II [Gabsfan@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] [Xwpacolyte@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] [Sojourner ] Re: [chakram-refugees] [cjlnh@webtv.net (Cheryl LaScola)] [chakram-refugees] <> ["Cheryl Ande" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [meredith ] Re: [chakram-refugees] CON 2002 Day 2, Saturday [KTL [IfeRae@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:48:49 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] In a message dated 3/8/2002 11:07:24 PM Central Standard Time, spri0037@tc.umn.edu writes: > Spoilers, > > Spoilers, > > Spoilers, > > Spoilers, > > Spoilers, > > Spoilers, > > Spoilers, > > Still have no rational reason why > at the end he saved Gabrielle and especially Eve. And I liked when Xena > DID shoot him with the crossbow, finally. Ares could have killed them > and kept his sister. Now, why would he do that: change his mind? > Don't, still don't, buy that he had "a thing for her," meaning Xena. > When early on in the episode several times he tried to kill Eve. Just > don't understand it. >> I'm afraid the only way it works is if you believe he did indeed have "a thing for her." He actually did use the word "love" (in GODFEARING CHILD?). Apparently, the only way he could save Xena was by restoring her power to kill gods, which depended on Eve's living. I suppose he threw in Gabrielle too, knowing Xena would've wanted that. The Big Boy loved nothing else, but he sure loved him some Xena, preferring to live out his days with her as a mortal than living without her as an endangered immortal. someone else, thanking them. It was like pulling peanut butter out of > someone's teeth, it always looked so painful for her. Once, in the > first episode Season 1. She thanked Draco for sparing Gabrielle's > village. Anyone else remember the other times? Few and far between.>> She thanked Eli for saving Gabrielle in DEVI. I believe she thanked Herc in GOD FEARING CHILD for helping save Eve. She may have thanked Callisto (in SEEDS OF FAITH) for impregnating her. (Heh) Hmmm, did she thank that Centaur for adopting Solan in ORPHAN OF WAR? And maybe Krishna in THE WAY? How about Brutus in IDES? Aphrodite in MOTHERHOOD? And, of course, she thanked Gabrielle in many ways, tho the only time I recall her actually saying it is in THE RECKONING, because Gabby came back for her after Xena whacked her. In REMEMBER NOTHING I believe Xena's hug at the end might be accompanied by a "thank you." I think it's safe to say "thank you" was implied in her response to Gabby's resuscitation in DOCTOR IN THE HOUSE. Did she thank Gabby in FORGIVEN? (I'm skimming through my ep list. You'll have to actually watch to verify all this. Sorry.) - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:46:41 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Speaker's Fees II On Sunday 10 March 2002 07:18, Gabsfan@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/9/02 5:23:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, cr@orcon.net.nz > writes: > > << Bear in mind that, when actors aren't in a regular series, they're > unemployed > much of the time. Appearing at a con is probably, to them, much the same > as > a one-off acting job. They _need_ to be paid for it. > > I'm not talking about Lucy and Renee now, who had 'steady' jobs for six > years, but about the other actors who appeared in the series much more > infrequently. >> > > I agree with your point about actors, especially unemployed and/or between > gig actors needing the income and looking at cons as a paid gig. > > However, I have a feeling that having Lucy or Renee appear at a con ain't > cheap either because of who they are and how popular they are among the > fans. Yes, I do think they do it for the fans but it's also additional > income for them. Like Jackie said, the appearance fee for a celebrity also > goes by what the market will bear. I'm sure that an appearance by Bill > Gates who has more money than God wouldn't be cheap either. Well, I excluded LL and ROC simply because I don't know how much they get paid, or even just possibly if it counts as 'promotion' and RenPics or StudiosUSA pay them. (For example, when LL appeared on talkshows, did she get paid and if so, who by? I really don't know the answer.) But the other reason I excluded them is because they were in regular work and so financially fairly secure, whereas most of the other recurring-character guests were possibly not. > But geez, $5000 each plus 1st Class Air and hotel accommodations for the > XWP recurring characters makes me think. It really makes me appreciate > Creation's ability to continue with local cons with 3 or 4 guests where the > attendance isn't nearly as big as the big one in CA. > > Debbie (who is looking forward to the Cherry Hill con) > Gabsfan@aol.com > "I'll rise, but I refuse to shine." > Gabrielle - X:WP "Been There, Done That" I guess there's a certain element of financial risk in organising a con - they must rely on selling enough seats to pay the guests, plus of course all the other costs. And guests have an awkward habit of becoming unavailable from time to time, requiring substitutes to be found and schedules reorganised.... it's probably quite profitable when everything works out, and a nightmare if things go wrong. Certainly not a business for the nervous. T ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:35:34 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] On Sunday 10 March 2002 05:11, Sojourner wrote: > At 23:12 09/03/2002 +1300, cr wrote: > >On Saturday 09 March 2002 18:07, Lilli Sprintz wrote: > > > Spoilers, > > > > > > Spoilers, > > > > > > Spoilers, > > > > > > Spoilers, > > > > > > Spoilers, > > > > > > Spoilers, > > > > > > Spoilers, > > > > > > Weehaaa. Oh, I haven't looked at these episodes from Season 5 for a > > > long time. Too painful, back then. But you know, they are still some > > > of the most beautiful and powerful of Xena's episodes. To Kevin Smith, > > > who again played the ultimate badguy. Still have no rational reason > > > why at the end he saved Gabrielle and especially Eve. And I liked > > > when Xena DID shoot him with the crossbow, finally. Ares could have > > > killed them and kept his sister. Now, why would he do that: change > > > his mind? Don't, still don't, buy that he had "a thing for her," > > > meaning Xena. When early on in the episode several times he tried to > > > kill Eve. Just don't understand it. Certainly, if I were looking one > > > more time at a woman who never, ever gives up (Xena), just the > > > admiration for someone like that, indeed, might be the one reason that > > > I could accept the concept that the writers gave us. > > > >That is a weak point, I think. OK, the official reason (I think) is that > > he saved Eve to save Xena, even though that meant Xena could kill > > Athena.... it's very indirect. Did he have any other options at that > > moment? He could have zapped Athena with a lightning bolt... umm no, > > he was still tangled up in the chains of Hephaestus, which neutralised > > that. So I guess his only possible option _was_ to revive Eve and give > > Xena her powers back. It was a straight choice between Athena and Xena > > and he chose Xena. > > > >I think the logic is stronger than appears at first sight. > > > >But why did he save Gabs? Just altruism or because he knew Xena would be > >less than happy if he didn't? I guess it cost him nothing extra. > > > >Thelonius > > Okay - he's Xena's father and would be lover Oops yes, I forgot, he's also possibly her father. Not that he'd be about to admit that to Athena or in front of Xena. That would be a very good motive for saving her, wouldn't it. > (don't pull a face like that, it's Greek) I wasn't pulling no faces.... like you say, it's Greek. They did that sort of thing all the time in some circles IIRC. > and .... here's my NEW theory ..... he has a thing for Gabrielle! > > Sojourner Aaaaargh!!!! NOW I'm pulling faces. (5 minutes of obligatory noises of disgust emanate from Thelonius's hutch). (Noises die down...). Hmmm... well, he _did_ consider Gabby as a potential henchman (henchwoman? henchperson? ouch!) in Succession, I suppose. So obviously he wasn't completely blind to her - umm, assets. Thelonius ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:54:23 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: On Sunday 10 March 2002 09:44, Cheryl Ande wrote: > && > & > & > & > & > && > > & > > "Still have no rational reason why at the end he saved > Gabrielle and especially Eve. And I liked when Xena > DID shoot him with the crossbow, finally. Ares could have killed them and > kept his sister. Now, why would he do that: change his mind? " > > I don't know if there is a rational reason. Personally I think Ares was > playing the odds. He knows Xena and Athena and he was aware neither one > was going to give in. They would battle it out until one or the other was > dead. So he had a choice when Eve died he could have done nothing and > Athena would have killed Xena. If Athena won she would have been his major > rival for power (both are war gods) so he would have been locked in > perpetual power struggle. If Xena won he would be top dog because he really > didn't pose a threat to Eve - remember he didn't want to kill Eve. The > problem of course is that Eve was now dead so he took a chance. Restore > Eve and Gabrielle he would lose his godhood but he would still be alive and > Xena would be in his debt. You never can tell he might be able to get his > godhood back and when he did no Athena to challenge him. A caculated risk. > Also I think he did this out his love for Xena and I think also liked and > respected Gabrielle. So he was in a win win position here. > > CherylA 'Win win' - well, maybe, but high-risk - he _was_ giving up his godhood to save them. T ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:38:22 +0000 From: Sojourner Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Speaker's Fees II At 18:09 09/03/2002 -1000, Jackie M. Young wrote: >Just to clarify, I do agree that in a market economy, fees are controlled >by supply and demand, so anyone is free to set any fees they wish. This is >why in America, we have baseball players earning million-dollar salaries >and secretaries-who-are-aspiring-actresses like me only earning $25,000. >;=( Not enough demand for secretaries. ;) > >I was just commenting on how this fee structure reflects our values. ;=/ > > >On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Sojourner wrote: > > > >What happened to "doing it for the fans"??!? ;=P > > > > Comes a distant second to paying the mortgage or the rent I should imagine. > >--Actually, I don't think a First Class air fare will be going towards >paying the rent or the mortgage. This demand sounds more like a >status-thing, to me. > >If coach fare is good enough for the rest of us peons, why not for actors? Good point - except I would argue cattle class isn't good enough for us peons! Let alone actors..... Man that 12 hour flight from Auckland to LA is a killer - but knowing how to survive a full flight over the Pacific means every other flight is now a doddle. > Those distinguished professors you talk about all have full-time jobs which > > pay them (rather well I should imagine) - those itinerant actors you > > mention might not know where their next job or paycheck is coming from. > >--Actually, you are only talking about the upper-third of professors who >have spent maybe 20-30 years in their field. I do all the hiring in my >dept., and the lowly assistant profs. only begin at about $30,000, not >much more than my own salary! And this is with a Ph.D. (at least 5-7+ >years in the making), earned after an M.A. (two years). Well you used the word distinguished so I figured ..... and I realised that in NZ professors are the top of the university tree - unlike the US where it seems like all academic staff are called professors (assistant and up?) of some kind. Anyway, best of luck! Sojourner ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:53:11 +0000 From: Sojourner Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] At 21:35 10/03/2002 +1300, cr wrote: >On Sunday 10 March 2002 05:11, Sojourner wrote: > > At 23:12 09/03/2002 +1300, cr wrote: > > >On Saturday 09 March 2002 18:07, Lilli Sprintz wrote: > > > > Spoilers, > > > > > > > > Spoilers, > > > > > > > > Spoilers, > > > > > > > > Spoilers, > > > > > > > > Spoilers, > > > > > > > > Spoilers, > > > > > > > > Spoilers, > > > > > > > > Weehaaa. Oh, I haven't looked at these episodes from Season 5 for a > > > > long time. Too painful, back then. But you know, they are still some > > > > of the most beautiful and powerful of Xena's episodes. To Kevin Smith, > > > > who again played the ultimate badguy. Still have no rational reason > > > > why at the end he saved Gabrielle and especially Eve. And I liked > > > > when Xena DID shoot him with the crossbow, finally. Ares could have > > > > killed them and kept his sister. Now, why would he do that: change > > > > his mind? Don't, still don't, buy that he had "a thing for her," > > > > meaning Xena. When early on in the episode several times he tried to > > > > kill Eve. Just don't understand it. Certainly, if I were looking one > > > > more time at a woman who never, ever gives up (Xena), just the > > > > admiration for someone like that, indeed, might be the one reason that > > > > I could accept the concept that the writers gave us. > > > > > >That is a weak point, I think. OK, the official reason (I think) is that > > > he saved Eve to save Xena, even though that meant Xena could kill > > > Athena.... it's very indirect. Did he have any other options at that > > > moment? He could have zapped Athena with a lightning bolt... umm no, > > > he was still tangled up in the chains of Hephaestus, which neutralised > > > that. So I guess his only possible option _was_ to revive Eve and give > > > Xena her powers back. It was a straight choice between Athena and Xena > > > and he chose Xena. > > > > > >I think the logic is stronger than appears at first sight. > > > > > >But why did he save Gabs? Just altruism or because he knew Xena would be > > >less than happy if he didn't? I guess it cost him nothing extra. > > > > > >Thelonius > > > > Okay - he's Xena's father and would be lover > >Oops yes, I forgot, he's also possibly her father. Not that he'd be about >to admit that to Athena or in front of Xena. That would be a very good >motive for saving her, wouldn't it. > > > (don't pull a face like that, it's Greek) > >I wasn't pulling no faces.... like you say, it's Greek. Oh no! You mean your face is like that all the time??? >They did that sort of thing all the time in some circles IIRC. Now, Thelonius, IIRC means If I Recall Correctly? Yes? How old are you anyway?? > > and .... here's my NEW theory ..... he has a thing for Gabrielle! > > > > Sojourner > >Aaaaargh!!!! NOW I'm pulling faces. >(5 minutes of obligatory noises of disgust emanate from Thelonius's hutch). > >(Noises die down...). > >Hmmm... well, he _did_ consider Gabby as a potential henchman (henchwoman? > henchperson? ouch!) in Succession, I suppose. So obviously he wasn't >completely blind to her - umm, assets. > >Thelonius CONSIDERABLE assets. And there is the whole Hope thing - he... um what was Xena's phrase ... damn ... he and Hope screwed like weasels? rabbits? vermin? Whoops (or should I say whoosh!) it was Callisto X: "Let me guess-- things didn't work out with Hope quite the way you expected." Cal: "No, actually-- the sight of her and Ares rolling around like weasels made me sick." Sacrifice 2. Sojourner ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 07:53:11 EST From: MistNY@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] Kevin Smith Trust Fund Info There has been a lot of confusion about the Official Kevin Smith Trust Fund with regard to which one it is, and who will benefit from the donations. I received an email from Robert Bruce on Friday in response to some questions I had sent him early last week regarding the status of the official fund. I hope this will cleear up any confusion that still exists. The Fund being administered by the Auckland Theatre Company is the official fund. The trustees for the fund are Lucy Lawless, Michael Hurst, Robert Bruce, and Simon Prast (of the ATC). The proceeds currently being collected will go to benefit Kevin's wife Sue and their three sons. In the long term, the Fund will continue to exist to help the family of actors who may be similarly stricken. But rest assured the donations being made now will go to Sue and the boys. All donations should be made payable directly to the Kevin Smith Trust Fund. I will continue to collect donations through S&S payable directly to the fund, or you can mail your donation to them at the following address: The Kevin Smith Trust Fund c/o Auckland Theatre Company PO Box 6513 Wellesley Street Auckland New Zealand I have asked for information on credit card payments. I will pass that information along as soon as it becomes available. Also, please be advised that US Postal Money Orders are not negotiable in New Zealand. So if you plan to send a donation, do not use Postal Money Orders to do so. All donations made through S&S to this date will be forwarded to NZ as a group donation from S&S, and will include the name, address, and dollar amount of donation made by each person donating through S&S. But now that the fund is set up, if you wish to donate through S&S, please be sure to send any such donations payable directly to the Kevin Smith Trust Fund. As always, I'll forward your checks directly to the organization. Lucy has sent a message to fans regarding the Kevin Smith Trust Fund and fan donations. It is posted on the Creation website for anyone who would like to read Lucy's comments. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact me directly at MistNY@aol.com Best, Mist http://sword-and-staff.com ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 06:19:24 +1300 From: NZJester Subject: [chakram-refugees] Jodie Rimmer (Tagged) was browsing the web and found this little short film staring Jodie Rimmer it's called Tagged windows media player or real media player are needed to watch this short film it is 1 minutes and 47 seconds long Credits listed Animator: Grant Wallis Cinematographer: Gavin Stroud Director: James Hodgson Editor: Bill Boyce Principal Cast: Jodie Rimmer Writer: James Hodgson http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/af/content/atom_1245 Catch ya later Jester New Xenaland http://www.angelfire.com/tv2/newxenaland/ ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:48:50 EST From: Gabsfan@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Speaker's Fees II In a message dated 3/10/02 5:48:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: << it's probably quite profitable when everything works out, and a nightmare if things go wrong. Certainly not a business for the nervous. >> I'm sure that sometime during their 30 years of business Creation has had their share of nightmares. But overall, the fan convention biz must be profitable enough for them to be in the business for 30 years. During those 30 years, they've learned how to organize and run a fan con that squeezes the most $$ out of fans while providing the con attendees an enjoyable time immersed in their favorite fandom. I still remember Sharon D saying a few years ago in Cherry Hill that they'll keep coming (to Cherry Hill) as long as we (the fans) did. Well, I'll keep coming, I just hope that Creation keeps their end of the bargain. :-) Debbie Gabsfan@aol.com "I'll rise, but I refuse to shine." Gabrielle - X:WP "Been There, Done That" ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 13:12:27 EST From: Xwpacolyte@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Spoiler space for and 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 In a message dated Sat, 9 Mar 2002 15:44:50 -0500, "Cheryl Ande" writes: << I don't know if there is a rational reason. Personally I think Ares was playing the odds. He knows Xena and Athena and he was aware neither one was going to give in. They would battle it out until one or the other was dead. So he had a choice when Eve died he could have done nothing and Athena would have killed Xena. If Athena won she would have been his major rival for power (both are war gods) so he would have been locked in perpetual power struggle. If Xena won he would be top dog because he really didn't pose a threat to Eve - - - remember he didn't want to kill Eve. The problem of course is that Eve was now dead so he took a chance. Restore Eve and Gabrielle he would lose his godhood but he would still be alive and Xena would be in his debt. You never can tell he might be able to get his godhood back and when he did no Athena to challenge him. A caculated risk. Also I think he did this out his love for Xena and I think also liked and respected Gabrielle. So he was in a win win position here. >> You know, I didn't think about it at the time but I believe there's a big ole YAXI here. Didn't Ares just waive his hand in and resurrect 3 villagers who had been dead several days? But to bring back Eve & Gabrielle, who were barely dead, he had to give up his godhood? Was there some explanation for this that I missed? XWPacolyte Cupid and Psyche... Antony and Cleopatra... Xena and Gabrielle. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:47:52 +0000 From: Sojourner Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] At 13:12 10/03/2002 -0500, Xwpacolyte@aol.com wrote: >Spoiler space for and > >0 >0 >0 >0 >0 >0 >0 >0 >0 >0 >0 >0 >0 > >In a message dated Sat, 9 Mar 2002 15:44:50 -0500, "Cheryl Ande" > writes: > ><< I don't know if there is a rational reason. Personally I think Ares was >playing the odds. He knows Xena and Athena and he was aware neither one was >going to give in. They would battle it out until one or the other was dead. >So he had a choice when Eve died he could have done nothing and Athena would >have killed Xena. If Athena won she would have been his major rival for power >(both are war gods) so he would have been locked in perpetual power struggle. >If Xena won he would be top dog because he really didn't pose a threat to Eve >- - remember he didn't want to kill Eve. The problem of course is that Eve >was >now dead so he took a chance. Restore Eve and Gabrielle he would lose his >godhood but he would still be alive and Xena would be in his debt. You never >can tell he might be able to get his godhood back and when he did no Athena to >challenge him. A caculated risk. Also I think he did this out his love for >Xena and I think also liked and respected Gabrielle. So he was in a win win >position here. >> > > >You know, I didn't think about it at the time but I believe there's a big ole >YAXI here. Didn't Ares just waive his hand in and resurrect >3 villagers who had been dead several days? But to bring back Eve & >Gabrielle, who were barely dead, he had to give up his godhood? Was there >some explanation for this that I missed? > >XWPacolyte >Cupid and Psyche... Antony and Cleopatra... Xena and Gabrielle. He has to have Athena's blessing to heal or raise from the dead (according to Motherhood) - I guess he didn't want to ask this time around! Sojourner ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:20:46 EST From: BElannafan@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] NYC con Anyone going? And if so do you need a place to stay. I have a room reserved for Fri - Sun nights two blocks away for $85 per night (that's cheap in NYC). The woman who was going to share it can't come so there is room for someone. Two of my friends will be down for at least Sat. night so that will be a four way split for one of the nights. Can e-mail me: BElannafan@aol.com ============================================================ Consideration is given, Respect is earned, Jan. You know you're a redneck Jedi when Darth Vader says' "Come with me, Luke. I am your father and your uncle." ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:45:58 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] RE: Speaker's Fees Jackie wrote: "Is there _any_ XWP actor out there that _doesn't_ ask for a several-thousand-dollar speaker's fee _and_ First Class air fare??!? What happened to "doing it for the fans"??!? ;=P" These people are actors. They make their living by performing. When you ask them to appear at a convention you are asking them to perform. They are working and they want to be paid for it. I am an auditor and if you ask me to come to your home and do your taxes - I will charge you. This is no different. An actor only has one product - himself when he's a hot property he must make the money he can. Actor's earn precious little. I once read that the average annual income for a memeber of the Screan Actor's Guild was $2500 so I'd say they better get the money when they can. If you noice when you are at a convention most of the guests talk about doing something other than acting - Claire directing, Hudson teaching yoga, Alex Tydings producing, Bruce writng, even Renee talks about directing - it's tough to make a living from acting. As for professors - yes they get low speaking fees but you don't pay to see them either. Also they may have other motives for speaking - they are promoting their ideas or academic works. They are not being alturists - they are making academic contacts and upping their profile among their collegues. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:36:24 -0500 (EST) From: cjlnh@webtv.net (Cheryl LaScola) Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Regarding Ares decision to bring Eve back to life..... I don't think Ares lamented long over the decision....it was all about Xena. As he said in Ares "Farm", if he didn't bring Eve back Athena would kill Xena,, so the choice for him was simple: save Eve to save Xena, Gab was an afterthought..although I think he saved Gab to gain Xena's indebtedness. Just my humble opinion. Cheryl J ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:17:30 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] <> # # # # # # Well I though it was going to be The Price but the next episode was Ulysses. An episode that many a Xenite hates. Actually it's not a bad episode. The music is wonderful, the fights are great, Gabrielle gets to dance and be seasick, and Rob's Folly (Xena's ship) is introduced for the first time. This episode takes great liberties with the story of Ulysses - Xena should not have met up the directionally challenged hero so soon after the fall of Troy since he spent ten years sailing around the Mediterranean after Troy, but it is of no matter and this fact is blithely ignored by the writers so I will also. I rather like it when the writers just reinvent history and legends for their own purposes. Also having Xena fall for Ulysses is not a bad idea. Ulysses of legend is a wonderful character. Called the trickster, he is cleaver and devious. It is he who thought up the Trojan horse. He was also apparently very attractive to women since every woman he met on his voyage home promptly fell in love with him and put him under some kind of enchantment. His wife Penelope is faithful for 20 years and holds off a whole horde of suitors just because she loves him. He is also brave in battle and as blood-thirsty as Xena in his rage - he and his son slaughter his wife's suitors when he comes home. Hey this is Xena's kind of guy. Unfortunately the character in this episode just isn't what Homer had in mind. He fights well but I'm afraid he just comes off as a poor love struck smuck. Ulysses spends almost all his time being rescued by Xena - first from pirates, then from the sirens and finally he can't even bend his bow without his help. When he steps in to save Gabrielle he gets struck with and arrow and Xena tells him he was basically a dope and she had it covered. Added to this he is more than willing to abandon his poor wife who has been waiting for him for tens years. Xena has to send him back to his wife. Anyway there are some nice Xena - Gabby moments. Charming scene in the beginning as Gabby tries to get the ever practical Xena to stop and smell the seaweed (no flowers at the beach). Gabby's consternation on overhearing Xena and U's little flirtation and then supportive friend bit as she tells Xena to follow her heart. Then at the end Gabby's concern over Xena's broken heart which doesn't seem very broken since Xena seems just a little nonchalant over sending her erstwhile lover back to his wife. Sidenotes: in fan fiction Ulysses turns up as a much better character in Jin Kuntz's Battle of Zama ridge stories as Xena's friend and ally. Rachael Blakely is Penelope in this episode. She is now the star of The Lost World series (one of my favorites) and was once rumoured as up for the role of Eve. More later, CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:31:14 -0500 From: meredith Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> Hi, Cheryl reviewed: >Actually it's not a bad episode. The music is wonderful, the fights are >great, Gabrielle gets to dance and be seasick, and Rob's Folly (Xena's ship) >is introduced for the first time. I thought Rob's Folly was first introduced in "Destiny". ?? Or was that a different ship entirely? I can't imagine they would have had two boats at their disposal... >Also having Xena fall for Ulysses is not a bad idea. In theory yes, but not in practice. As so many people have said over the years, that was one of the worst bits of casting in the entire series. If there had been any chemistry at all between LL and the guy playing Ulysses, the situation wouldn't have been nearly as laughable ... but there was less than none, so the end result was the worst pairing this side of "King Con" (don't even get me STARTED on that episode ... ). ======================================= Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth ======================================= Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://www.smoe.org/meth/muzak.html ======================================= (: New England Patriots - Super Bowl XXXVI CHAMPIONS :) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:08:31 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] CON 2002 Day 2, Saturday > > I came in on the scene where they are about to crucify Gabrielle. And I > > have to admit, the ep was better than I remembered. Or else just not > > having to sit through the treacle-laced Harlequin sappy fanfic imbued > > yearning eyes meeting across a crowded room leading to mooning on the > > balcony (in the emotional sense, not in the heinie exposed sense-now > > that's a scene I would have really enjoyed. Can't you see Gabrielle as a > > mooner? I sure can.); perhaps not having to sit through all that to me > > totally off base characterization made the rest of the ep more palatable. > > I still say, no matter what happened or didn't happen in Xena's life, she > > would NEVER have become a woman like that. (And Ife-don't start with me. > > Just don't. Grin) > > > > OK, now you've earned a growl. Grrrr. (Happy now?) Wonderful report, > despite the gratuitous editorializing, Gratuitous editorializing! I'm just creating a...er setting the scene. Besides, grrl, do you realize how SHORT those reports would be with my gratuitityness? They'd hardly be worth posting... which suggests that we now have a > third area of disagreement. And here I thought I was the one without a > romantic bone in my body. LOL. I was INFAMOUS among my girlfriends when we were like 14 or so for being the only one in the teary-eyed teeny group who upon reading the end of Gone With The Wind said, "Sheesh--what a jerk that Scarlett is. Good for Rhett for leaving her." And yes, I like the ending of FIN too. (Teasing Grin) Yeah, yeah, I know -- it's the *sappy* romance you > don't like. We just have different views of what was sap. So here's my > gratuitous editorializing: Xena COULD TOO have been like that. Na na na na > na. Yes, dear, you just keep telling yourself that... > > -- Ife (thinking we aren't setting a very good example of middle-aged > maturity) Yeah, but not bad for people going through their second childhood, no? KT (smiling and sucking her thumb.) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:10:17 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: In a message dated 3/9/2002 3:33:10 PM Central Standard Time, cande@sunlink.net writes: * * * * * * * > I think my problem was with the writing. I though Gabrielle, the bard, > could > have explained her faith in Melager to Xena in a much better way. If there > could have been a 30 second bit of dialog where Gabby said "look he overcame > his weakness to save my village and treated me like a daughter and I know > what > a good man he is" then her actions become unstandable. Xena may not have > accepted her explanation but for the audience Gabrielle's motivations would > have been more understandable. > I can certainly understand where you're coming from. In fact, I frequently found that to be the case with Gabrielle's explanations for her faith in people, not only early on, but later. I always wondered if this was intentional, in that it's hard to really explain faith. Even "logic" or the "evidence" cited above is based on her "glass half full" perspective. Xena could still have regarded Meleager's actions as motivated by saving face in a particular circumstance. It might not have changed Xena's initial reliance on her experience with such men, especially (as you point out above) when it came to protecting Gabrielle. Now that you've raised this, I realize how little Xena sometimes explained *her* actions (if at all). "You can't trust people like that" or "Trust me, Gabrielle, I've got to check out something first" certainly isn't any more solid than Gabrielle's explanations. Admittedly, I often gave more weight to Xena's instincts because they were usually based on her vast experience, but there were many times she was wrong and acknowledged that Gabrielle's instincts were right. Frankly, I felt the writers focused on the interactions between the two women, rather than on what might make sense to the audience. The characters often asked each other to accept a lot on faith, whether it was based on Gabrielle's faith in others or her faith in Xena's experience. It produced a lot of "huh?" moments for me, because of the simplistic rationales given for taking some pretty risky actions. But I wonder if it also contributed to the sense of intimacy -- of "just us two talking hurriedly with each other like people do when they've been around each other for awhile and take (rightly or wrongly) a lot of trust for granted." We went from Gabrielle asking lots of questions of Xena early on (and often doing something spontaneously), to each of them questioning each other and having to do a lot more explanation when things got rough between them. All this contributed to what I saw as a realistic evolution in their relationship, as well as Gabrielle's growing confidence in her own "voice" and Xena's opennes to seeing things differently. Again, to your point, I don't know how much of that was intentional and how much was superficial writing. Lord knows how many times I wanted to bang my head against the wall at one of Xena's cryptic, off-handed "explanations" to Gabrielle, or to Gabrielle's impassioned "that's not right" statements with little or no back-up. In the end, I figured what mattered more was whether X&G acted like something made sense, rather than whether it made sense to me as an outside observer. To be honest, that's always one of my biggest challenges in discussions about the writing -- whether I filled something in, whether the writers purposefully created space to do that and/or whether Lucy and Renee made it work regardless. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #65 *************************************