From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #64 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Sunday, March 10 2002 Volume 02 : Number 064 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] Speaker's Fees II ["Jackie M. Young" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Speaker's Fees II [cr ] [chakram-refugees] Pasadena convention photos [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Speaker's Fees II [Sojourner [Sojourner ] [chakram-refugees] RE: ["Cheryl Ande" > ["Cheryl Ande" ] [chakram-refugees] RE: ["Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Speaker's Fees II Well, the Hawai'i Xenafest speaker saga continues......;( Mindy Clarke's agent also happens to be Hudson Leick's agent, and HL also is used to getting First Class air fare, and a $5,000 speaking fee! ;( I contacted BCampbell's agent, and he's used to getting First Class air fare and a $5,000 speaking fee! ;( Is there _any_ XWP actor out there that _doesn't_ ask for a several-thousand-dollar speaker's fee _and_ First Class air fare??!? What happened to "doing it for the fans"??!? ;=P *Sheesh!* Talk about "charging what the market will bear"!! ;=P I work at our local university here, and although many *distinguished professors* are usually paid an honorarium to speak (around $100-$500), many will also just do it for coach air fare and per diem (meals and lodging) (I mean, who wouldn't want a *free* trip to Hawai'i??), or, for *free* if they are just passing through already. I know it's nothing new, but it's a *sad* state of affairs when sports figures and movie actors are valued more than educators and researchers.....;( Oh, well......;( Just MO, ;) - --Jackie ****************************************************** * Proud to have the same birthday as Lucy Lawless! * * * * "I think New Zealand geographically comes from * * ... Hawai'i." --Lucy Lawless, Late Show, 4/9/96 * * * * "Feel the fear and do it anyway." --Lucy Lawless, * * Evening Post, 7/4/98 * * * * JACKIE YOUNG, JYOUNG@LAVA.NET * * * ****************************************************** ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:12:18 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] On Saturday 09 March 2002 18:07, Lilli Sprintz wrote: > Spoilers, > > Spoilers, > > Spoilers, > > Spoilers, > > Spoilers, > > Spoilers, > > Spoilers, > > Weehaaa. Oh, I haven't looked at these episodes from Season 5 for a > long time. Too painful, back then. But you know, they are still some > of the most beautiful and powerful of Xena's episodes. To Kevin Smith, > who again played the ultimate badguy. Still have no rational reason why > at the end he saved Gabrielle and especially Eve. And I liked when Xena > DID shoot him with the crossbow, finally. Ares could have killed them > and kept his sister. Now, why would he do that: change his mind? > Don't, still don't, buy that he had "a thing for her," meaning Xena. > When early on in the episode several times he tried to kill Eve. Just > don't understand it. Certainly, if I were looking one more time at a > woman who never, ever gives up (Xena), just the admiration for someone > like that, indeed, might be the one reason that I could accept the > concept that the writers gave us. That is a weak point, I think. OK, the official reason (I think) is that he saved Eve to save Xena, even though that meant Xena could kill Athena.... it's very indirect. Did he have any other options at that moment? He could have zapped Athena with a lightning bolt... umm no, he was still tangled up in the chains of Hephaestus, which neutralised that. So I guess his only possible option _was_ to revive Eve and give Xena her powers back. It was a straight choice between Athena and Xena and he chose Xena. I think the logic is stronger than appears at first sight. But why did he save Gabs? Just altruism or because he knew Xena would be less than happy if he didn't? I guess it cost him nothing extra. Thelonius ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:25:42 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Speaker's Fees II On Saturday 09 March 2002 20:01, Jackie M. Young wrote: > Well, the Hawai'i Xenafest speaker saga continues......;( > > Mindy Clarke's agent also happens to be Hudson Leick's agent, and HL also > is used to getting First Class air fare, and a $5,000 speaking fee! ;( > > I contacted BCampbell's agent, and he's used to getting First Class air > fare and a $5,000 speaking fee! ;( > > Is there _any_ XWP actor out there that _doesn't_ ask for a > several-thousand-dollar speaker's fee _and_ First Class air fare??!? > > What happened to "doing it for the fans"??!? ;=P > > *Sheesh!* Talk about "charging what the market will bear"!! ;=P > > I work at our local university here, and although many *distinguished > professors* are usually paid an honorarium to speak (around $100-$500), > many will also just do it for coach air fare and per diem (meals and > lodging) (I mean, who wouldn't want a *free* trip to Hawai'i??), or, for > *free* if they are just passing through already. > > I know it's nothing new, but it's a *sad* state of affairs when sports > figures and movie actors are valued more than educators and > researchers.....;( Oh, well......;( > > Just MO, ;) > --Jackie > Bear in mind that, when actors aren't in a regular series, they're unemployed much of the time. Appearing at a con is probably, to them, much the same as a one-off acting job. They _need_ to be paid for it. I'm not talking about Lucy and Renee now, who had 'steady' jobs for six years, but about the other actors who appeared in the series much more infrequently. It isn't the same as professors who have a steady income and, usually, an assured future employment and so don't need to be paid for public appearances. INO Thelonius ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:31:22 +1300 From: cr Subject: [chakram-refugees] Pasadena convention photos Can't remember who posted this link or on which list (sorry), but it's got some great photos. Claire and Hudson look positively dangerous! http://www.creationent.com/PAST_EVENTS.html T ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 16:09:34 +0000 From: Sojourner Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Speaker's Fees II At 21:01 08/03/2002 -1000, Jackie M. Young wrote: >Well, the Hawai'i Xenafest speaker saga continues......;( > >Mindy Clarke's agent also happens to be Hudson Leick's agent, and HL also >is used to getting First Class air fare, and a $5,000 speaking fee! ;( > >I contacted BCampbell's agent, and he's used to getting First Class air >fare and a $5,000 speaking fee! ;( > >Is there _any_ XWP actor out there that _doesn't_ ask for a >several-thousand-dollar speaker's fee _and_ First Class air fare??!? It's called working for a living. >What happened to "doing it for the fans"??!? ;=P Comes a distant second to paying the mortgage or the rent I should imagine. >*Sheesh!* Talk about "charging what the market will bear"!! ;=P > >I work at our local university here, and although many *distinguished >professors* are usually paid an honorarium to speak (around $100-$500), >many will also just do it for coach air fare and per diem (meals and >lodging) (I mean, who wouldn't want a *free* trip to Hawai'i??), or, for >*free* if they are just passing through already. > >I know it's nothing new, but it's a *sad* state of affairs when sports >figures and movie actors are valued more than educators and >researchers.....;( Oh, well......;( > >Just MO, ;) >--Jackie In good old market economy you could make money out of appearances by these people - I mean, Creation do it for the money. They support workers and shareholders. On the other side, we pay for a service or product which we desire. Those distinguished professors you talk about all have full-time jobs which pay them (rather well I should imagine) - those itinerant actors you mention might not know where their next job or paycheck is coming from. So to figure out how you can afford Hudson or Mindy or Bruce, seeing as how you aren't a charity, maybe a budget and a charging structure and a marketing plan or market research - that kind of thing. There must be people on this list who have run this kind of event or similar before. Maybe there is help out here? Sojourner ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 16:11:22 +0000 From: Sojourner Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] At 23:12 09/03/2002 +1300, cr wrote: >On Saturday 09 March 2002 18:07, Lilli Sprintz wrote: > > Spoilers, > > > > Spoilers, > > > > Spoilers, > > > > Spoilers, > > > > Spoilers, > > > > Spoilers, > > > > Spoilers, > > > > Weehaaa. Oh, I haven't looked at these episodes from Season 5 for a > > long time. Too painful, back then. But you know, they are still some > > of the most beautiful and powerful of Xena's episodes. To Kevin Smith, > > who again played the ultimate badguy. Still have no rational reason why > > at the end he saved Gabrielle and especially Eve. And I liked when Xena > > DID shoot him with the crossbow, finally. Ares could have killed them > > and kept his sister. Now, why would he do that: change his mind? > > Don't, still don't, buy that he had "a thing for her," meaning Xena. > > When early on in the episode several times he tried to kill Eve. Just > > don't understand it. Certainly, if I were looking one more time at a > > woman who never, ever gives up (Xena), just the admiration for someone > > like that, indeed, might be the one reason that I could accept the > > concept that the writers gave us. > >That is a weak point, I think. OK, the official reason (I think) is that he >saved Eve to save Xena, even though that meant Xena could kill Athena.... >it's very indirect. Did he have any other options at that moment? He >could have zapped Athena with a lightning bolt... umm no, he was still >tangled up in the chains of Hephaestus, which neutralised that. So I guess >his only possible option _was_ to revive Eve and give Xena her powers back. >It was a straight choice between Athena and Xena and he chose Xena. > >I think the logic is stronger than appears at first sight. > >But why did he save Gabs? Just altruism or because he knew Xena would be >less than happy if he didn't? I guess it cost him nothing extra. > >Thelonius Okay - he's Xena's father and would be lover (don't pull a face like that, it's Greek) and .... here's my NEW theory ..... he has a thing for Gabrielle! Sojourner ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 13:18:09 EST From: Gabsfan@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Speaker's Fees II In a message dated 3/9/02 5:23:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: << Bear in mind that, when actors aren't in a regular series, they're unemployed much of the time. Appearing at a con is probably, to them, much the same as a one-off acting job. They _need_ to be paid for it. I'm not talking about Lucy and Renee now, who had 'steady' jobs for six years, but about the other actors who appeared in the series much more infrequently. >> I agree with your point about actors, especially unemployed and/or between gig actors needing the income and looking at cons as a paid gig. However, I have a feeling that having Lucy or Renee appear at a con ain't cheap either because of who they are and how popular they are among the fans. Yes, I do think they do it for the fans but it's also additional income for them. Like Jackie said, the appearance fee for a celebrity also goes by what the market will bear. I'm sure that an appearance by Bill Gates who has more money than God wouldn't be cheap either. But geez, $5000 each plus 1st Class Air and hotel accommodations for the XWP recurring characters makes me think. It really makes me appreciate Creation's ability to continue with local cons with 3 or 4 guests where the attendance isn't nearly as big as the big one in CA. Debbie (who is looking forward to the Cherry Hill con) Gabsfan@aol.com "I'll rise, but I refuse to shine." Gabrielle - X:WP "Been There, Done That" ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 13:46:07 -0500 From: meredith Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Speaker's Fees II Hi, Thelonius responded: >Bear in mind that, when actors aren't in a regular series, they're unemployed >much of the time. Appearing at a con is probably, to them, much the same as >a one-off acting job. They _need_ to be paid for it. In addition (and trust me to take the most cynical view wherever possible ), think of it from the actors' perspective. They may not be altogether thrilled at the prospect of having to parade themselves up on stage and be subjected to the sometimes embarrassingly lame questions of crazed geek fans. If they're gonna do it, they figure, they might as well make a good chunk of change off it, and have a pleasant flight there and back to boot. (I'm not making any value judgements about the fans who attend cons -- heck, I do myself -- but I'm just trying to think of it from their point of view. William Shatner's infamous SNL skit where he chastised the fans at a Star Trek convention to "get a life" was more honest than most people want to acknowledge.) Sojourner wondered: >So to figure out how you can afford Hudson or Mindy or Bruce, seeing as >how you aren't a charity, maybe a budget and a charging structure and a >marketing plan or market research - that kind of thing. There must be >people on this list who have run this kind of event or similar before. >Maybe there is help out here? I haven't run media conventions or events, but I have run music festivals. If the event is even partially a benefit for a charitable organization or other locally-recognizable cause, it's not difficult to get sponsorship money to cover the operating costs of the event. A local group I'm a part of, the New Haven Folk Alliance puts on the Eli Whitney Folk Festival each year, and since we give a (small) percentage of our profits to a local civil rights organization we are able to get sizable contributions from a local bank, who only asks that we pretend that the event is called the "Citizens Bank Eli Whitney Folk Festival". We smack their logo on all of our press materials and posters and t-shirts, and bang, we've got an instant $10k to get the event off the ground. On a smaller scale, ectofest, the festival I put on myself benefits a local women's shelter (though last year we expanded that to benefit a nationwide organization called the Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network (RAINN)), and we were able to get enough individual contributions from people interested in helping out, that all of our expenses were covered prior to the day so every cent of every ticket sold went right to the charity. We were able to pay the musicians something too, which was a change from previous years when we basically had to ask them to do it gratis. So, my suggestion would be to Jackie: find a local organization to benefit from the event, even if you only end up writing them a check for $100 when all is said and done. Being able to say you're doing it for charity will open up avenues to get sponsorship (everybody likes the tax breaks), and might even get some of the stars to consider reducing their asking price a bit. I can provide more details on how to go about this if needed, just email me privately. ======================================= Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth ======================================= Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://www.smoe.org/meth/muzak.html ======================================= (: New England Patriots - Super Bowl XXXVI CHAMPIONS :) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 15:44:50 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] RE: && & & & & && & "Still have no rational reason why at the end he saved Gabrielle and especially Eve. And I liked when Xena DID shoot him with the crossbow, finally. Ares could have killed them and kept his sister. Now, why would he do that: change his mind? " I don't know if there is a rational reason. Personally I think Ares was playing the odds. He knows Xena and Athena and he was aware neither one was going to give in. They would battle it out until one or the other was dead. So he had a choice when Eve died he could have done nothing and Athena would have killed Xena. If Athena won she would have been his major rival for power (both are war gods) so he would have been locked in perpetual power struggle. If Xena won he would be top dog because he really didn't pose a threat to Eve - - remember he didn't want to kill Eve. The problem of course is that Eve was now dead so he took a chance. Restore Eve and Gabrielle he would lose his godhood but he would still be alive and Xena would be in his debt. You never can tell he might be able to get his godhood back and when he did no Athena to challenge him. A caculated risk. Also I think he did this out his love for Xena and I think also liked and respected Gabrielle. So he was in a win win position here. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:26:30 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] <> @ @ @ @ @ @ Well I finally caught up. Blind Faith is one of my favorite episodes. It has nice message, it's funny, good guest stars and a nice dollop of subtext. The episode is really two separate stories Xena is blinded and needs to be lead to a kidnapped Gabrielle by a young thug, Palemon, who wants to fight her Meanwhile Gabrielle is being forced to marry a king whom she never met and is being reluctantly groomed for queenhood by a disgruntle courtier. First off I really like Xena's relationship with Palemon. Xena takes a really liking to the young thug probably seeing something of herself in him. She recognizes that he is on the cusp of being what he just now pretends to be - a ruthless killer. At this point he is not that man - he doesn't kill her when he has a couple of chances but if he ever does kill he will become that killer. During their time together Xena demonstrates how much she regrets her past shows him that she has changed. She no longer is selfish she has friend that she is willing to sacrifice for and she is willing to trust him when she has no reason to. Slowly Palemon begins to respect Xena and like her - - together the form a partnership and he learns the value of doing good. I love the part when he dashes in as Xena saves Gabrielle from the fire and learns that perhaps there is more to Xena's relationship with Gabby then just friendship - there's nice touch of embarrassment when realizes he has intruded. So now Palimon has learned that being good may mean that he will find love and friendship and his reformation in the end is believable. Meanwhile our subplot is very funny. Gabrielle is about to be married off to a king. She doesn't know why but the evil minister is bound and determined to do it. So poor Gabrielle undergoes a make-over must endure a scathing commentary form on her unsuitability from her peasant breading, washerwoman hands to her "husky" bearing (should we read "butch" here). Gabrielle is funny as reacts in open mouth disbelief at her harsh appraisal and is hysterical when she is present at court in shoes she can walk in, an absurd hairdo and a dress that demonstrates her eye-popping cleavage. Then she has another great scene when she tries to explain to the king that she is really bad luck for her numerous dead boyfriends only to discover she has an equally dead fianci. At the wedding she is bound and gagged and yet is still able to demonstrate her outrage at the proceedings. Anyway a great episode. Subtext moments: Xena and Gabrielle's reunion with Palimon's obvious embarrassment. Xena looking at Gabrielle as her sight is restored and saying : "A sight for sore eyes". Gabrielle explaining to Vadilius that she can't marry the king because she loves someone else - yes I know she probably referring to Perdicus but we take our subtext moments where we find them. Memorable moments: Gabrielle cleavage - I was impressed! Palimon never returned but Jeremy Callaghan returned as Pompey. Palimon however has enjoyed a successful career in fan fiction where he pops up quit regularly in Conqueror stories usually as the trusted lieutenant. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:46:08 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] RE: # # # # # # # Ife wrote: "All in all, it made sense to me that this would be a situation where Gabrielle would feel confident that she was on equal (if not superior) moral footing to Xena." Using this quote jus as jumping off point for discussing your post. You made a lot of good points. Indeed Gabrielle's disagreement with Xena over Meleager does indeed point out their differing world views. Gabby is more idealistic and it is very reasonable that she would side with her friend. Also it also reasonable that she would stand up to Xena when she thinks she is wrong. It is a sign that Gabby is confident in her opinions and has the courage of her confictions. I also think that a lot of Xena's motivation comes from her wish to protect Gabrielle from not only Juge Arbus but from being taken avatge of my Maleager. Once Meleager confesses to Gabrielle Xena wants to heal the friendship between Melager and Gabrielle becasue she now feels Meleager is trustworthy. I think my problem was with the writing. I though Gabrielle, the bard, could have explained her faith in Melager to Xena in a much better way. If there could have been a 30 second bit of dialog where Gabby said "look he overcame his weakness to save my village and treated me like a daughter and I know what a good man he is" then her actions become unstandable. Xena may not have accepted her explanation but for the audience Gabrielle's motivations would have been more understandable. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 15:53:57 +0800 From: "Linda M. Woolf, Ph.D." Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Speaker's Fees II Sojourner wrote: > Those distinguished professors you talk about all have full-time jobs which > pay them (rather well I should imagine) - those itinerant actors you > mention might not know where their next job or paycheck is coming from. > Okay, let me jump in here for a second. You might want to select another profession to argue about besides professors. Most professors do not make very much money particularly when compared to those in the entertainment industry or those with comparable education. In fact, most make somewhere between $35,000 and $50,000 per year. Better certainly than a lot of folks out there but also a lot less than many in a variety of work arenas and professions. And let's not forget the hefty student loans that remain even after 15 years or more (mine are still over $500 per month), cost for travel to conferences (at least $1000/conference with professional commitments to usually 2-4 per year), cost of our professional memberships (mine are over $1000/year), pay for professional books and journals, etc. We even have to pay to park on campus (over $200/year)! No one will ever get rich being a professor. I love my job but it is clear that the rewards are not monetary. Why do we go and speak places for free or for little money? Because this is what we are used to doing, this is an expectation of most universities regarding professional service, and more importantly, the work is driven by the message and not the money. What is problematic about this entire issue of speaker's fees is not that certain individuals are paid well. When people travel to conventions, they have a right to expect to be paid a decent wage particularly considering the high level of involvement expected of them. Rather, what is worrisome to me are the priorities involved reflected in U.S. culture. Education tends to remain a low priority in terms of funding in the U.S. Organizations ranging from shelters for abused women to the United Nations are sorely hurting for money. Millions in the United States cannot afford health care and do without. And yet, billions of dollars are being spent each year on entertainment. I suppose I could then also digress as to where our tax dollars are going but . . . Warm regards, Linda ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:05:32 -0600 From: "H.J.J. Hewitt" Subject: [chakram-refugees] N.Z.-lover telly alert The TRAVEL channel is running New Zealand (New Zedland?) stuff from 11 a.m. till 4, Eastern, on this coming Saturday, the 16th. TEXena, #1 N.Z. aficionado ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:09:52 -1000 (HST) From: "Jackie M. Young" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Speaker's Fees II Just to clarify, I do agree that in a market economy, fees are controlled by supply and demand, so anyone is free to set any fees they wish. This is why in America, we have baseball players earning million-dollar salaries and secretaries-who-are-aspiring-actresses like me only earning $25,000. ;=( Not enough demand for secretaries. ;) I was just commenting on how this fee structure reflects our values. ;=/ On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Sojourner wrote: > >What happened to "doing it for the fans"??!? ;=P > > Comes a distant second to paying the mortgage or the rent I should imagine. - --Actually, I don't think a First Class air fare will be going towards paying the rent or the mortgage. This demand sounds more like a status-thing, to me. If coach fare is good enough for the rest of us peons, why not for actors? > In good old market economy you could make money out of appearances by these > people - I mean, Creation do it for the money. They support workers and > shareholders. On the other side, we pay for a service or product which we > desire. - --I cannot disagree. If you can get it, you are free to do so. Like I said earlier, I was only commenting on how this reflects our societal values. Recently, many others in the press have commented on how poorly-paid educators are, and how we as a society don't pay them enough, but we are willing to support the ridiculously-large salaries paid to sports figures and celebrities (through our use of our dispensable income). > Those distinguished professors you talk about all have full-time jobs which > pay them (rather well I should imagine) - those itinerant actors you > mention might not know where their next job or paycheck is coming from. - --Actually, you are only talking about the upper-third of professors who have spent maybe 20-30 years in their field. I do all the hiring in my dept., and the lowly assistant profs. only begin at about $30,000, not much more than my own salary! And this is with a Ph.D. (at least 5-7+ years in the making), earned after an M.A. (two years). But I was also just reflecting for instance, that a $5,000 speaker's fee is a fifth of my own income, and this is just for one day's work! Now it's entirely possible that an actor won't have work for 2 1/2 months after one gig, but certainly if an actor were charging that much to begin with, they probably are in high demand anyway, and if they wanted more of this type of work (appearances), they would set their fees lower so as to attract more of this type of work?? And, if they are so strapped for income, there's always the stereotypical waiting-tables/gas station job (a fellow aspiring actress friend of mine also worked at the same university I do now in a clerical position, then hit it big and left). So one doesn't necessarily have to be _without_ income totally, while waiting for the next acting gig to come up. So I'm still coming up with what Bookdaft mentioned earlier about this topic, namely that if a speaker wants to be "unavailable" to their public, they'll set high speaking rates. At first I had no objection because I had only talked to Mindy Clarke's agent, and I figured if she can get it, more power to her. When I called around more and it became more of a "standard", _then_ I started to object. ;) > So to figure out how you can afford Hudson or Mindy or Bruce, seeing as how > you aren't a charity, maybe a budget and a charging structure and a > marketing plan or market research - that kind of thing. There must be - --Alas, I don't think that's possible for our small club. ;( On the mainland, there might be a draw, but from my past experience here (where many people thought they could even see *LL* when I was only charging *$1* at the door!!), locals won't pay near enough to only see one person, if the speaking fee is included. ;( (I asked one person a few years back if he'd pay $8 to see KSmith, and he had to _think_ about it a *long* time, then he said, yeah, he'd pay $8 to see *KSmith*!! ;P *Sheesh*!! ;P So if I only charged $8, I'd need *1,000* people to show up to cover expenses??!? Yeah, *in my dreams*!!) And there's the added factor of our location being in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.....;( And I have contacted SCaXenites and PNWXenites for advice, and we've pretty much concluded this is a *really* different market.....;(...but thanks for asking. ;) *Sooooo*.....it's back to the drawing board for me.....;( Just MO, - --Jackie ****************************************************** * Proud to have the same birthday as Lucy Lawless! * * * * "I think New Zealand geographically comes from * * ... Hawai'i." --Lucy Lawless, Late Show, 4/9/96 * * * * "Feel the fear and do it anyway." --Lucy Lawless, * * Evening Post, 7/4/98 * * * * JACKIE YOUNG, JYOUNG@LAVA.NET * * * ****************************************************** ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. 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