From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #62 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Friday, March 8 2002 Volume 02 : Number 062 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [IfeRae@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] Son of a bacchae: linguistic trivial pursuits [mirrord] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 00:47:14 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> In a message dated 3/6/2002 9:24:02 PM Central Standard Time, cande@sunlink.net writes: S P O I L E R SPACE > Not a bad story but I just had real problems with it. First off Gabrielle > met > Meleager once - yes she liked him and I'm sure she would want to help him > but > why would she take his side against Xena. She has known Xena now for two > years and I assume she trusts her judgement but suddenly she sides with a > man > who is almost a stranger to her. This episode would have made more sense if > the prisoner Gabby was defending was a relative or close friend not just an > acquaintance. Perhaps this episode foreshadows some the developments in the > third season Gabrielle - her belief that she wiser the Xena in judging > people > - but it just seems to come of the blue here. While I agree this mini-rift could be seen as serving more of a dramatic purpose, I didn't find it that inconceivable. Indeed, I liked the tension between X&G, which, as you point out, foreshadowed the later big rift. We're beginning to see cracks in the pedestals they've placed each other on, which widened almost irreparably during season 4, but ultimately led to honest grappling with the often messy evolution of individuals and relationships. To me, the hallmark of early G was her innocent belief that nearly anyone (except Cally, of course) could change for the good. Meleager was probably her best evidence of that (aside from Xena, of course). While I think she wanted Xena to see that in people, I don't think she necessarily expected that Princess You're Guilty Until Proven Innocent necessarily would. I think she even accepted Xena's natural mistrust as wise for someone in her line of work. Gabrielle showed time and again her willingness to stand up for (and to) others, including the beloved, flawed companion she whacked with that pitchfork in Ties That Bind. I like that Queen You're Innocent Until Proven Guilty was a woman of principle, who adhered to her ideals as well as followed her heart, regardless of how close she was to someone she defended -- just as Xena was willing to put her life on the line for what appeared to be a lost or insignificant cause. The two had to butt heads over their differing views of human nature at some point -- at least if Gabrielle was to be shown as having a mind of her own and Xena was to "lighten up." Sure, Gabrielle admired and respected Xena. But why should she accept Xena's "glass half empty" view as more valid than her own "glass half full" view, especially in this case? Xena may have had vast experience with men *like* Meleaguer, but she hadn't interacted with the actual man as Gabrielle had. I also liked what I did in later eps -- how X&G switched places sometimes in order to bring out the best in the other. When Gabrielle's faith in Meleager waned, it showed the weakness of her idealism and the strengths of Xena's ability to understand the flaws real humans grapple with. We later saw the weakness in Xena's focus on those flaws and the strengths of Gabrielle's ability to see beyond them. In the end, Gabrielle reclaimed her faith in Meleager despite his shortcomings, for the human he was. Xena had to put aside her cynicism, open her own heart a little more, to help Gabrielle do that. Once again, they learned from each other. All in all, it made sense to me that this would be a situation where Gabrielle would feel confident that she was on equal (if not superior) moral footing to Xena. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 13:39:17 -0500 From: mirrordrum Subject: [chakram-refugees] Son of a bacchae: linguistic trivial pursuits for all you cunning linguists out there, i offer this thanks to AWAD (a word a day). ithyphallic (ith-uh-FAL-ik) adjective 1. Of or relating to the phallus carried in procession in ancient Bacchic festivals. also 2. Indecent or salacious. 3. Having an erect phallus. [From Late Latin ithyphallicus, from Greek ithyphallikos, from ithyphallos, from ithys (straight) + phallos (phallus).] "Luxor Temple is more comprehensible than the vaster ruins at Karnak. It was also dedicated to Amun - but to a different manifestation of the same god, associated with fertility and often shown in ithyphallic form." Ronald Wright, Images Of Egypt; Temples, Tombs and Entrepreneurs, The Washington Post, Jun 11, 1989. i believe this word can be considered appropriate to xenaica for even though we never actually *saw* one of these, we certainly saw bacchic revels and, of course, some might like to invoke the idea here and there throughout the series. this comes particularly to mind having just watched . what a great ep despite the questionable appearance of the pyramids and sphinx--and yes, i remember all the discussions about that. i do forget the conclusion. md--for whom no trivia are too trivial ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #62 *************************************