From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #58 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Sunday, March 3 2002 Volume 02 : Number 058 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] CON 2002 Day 2, Saturday [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] CON 2002 Day 2, Saturday [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Answer to that trivia question [Xwpacolyte@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] CON 2002 Day 2, Saturday [IfeRae@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] Re: Con 2002 ["H.J.J. Hewitt" ] [chakram-refugees] Re: Answer to trivia question ["H.J.J. Hewitt" ] RE: [chakram-refugees] Speakers' Fees ["bookdaft" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 00:20:05 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: [chakram-refugees] CON 2002 Day 2, Saturday Saturday was the day that Creation put printed announcement about Kevin on chairs in the hall. Also there were signs on the merchandise table saying that all monies made from the sale of any Kevin products would be sent to Kevin's family. This was the first time many people heard about what had happened. People talked about their sorrow and their shock all through the day. Some people at the con hadn't even realized that Kevin had been hurt and so were truly stunned by the news. I was not present for the very beginning of the program on Saturday. The first thing on the schedule was a showing of "When Fates Collide". As some of you may know, it's not one I particularly liked. So I took my time getting over there. I came in on the scene where they are about to crucify Gabrielle. And I have to admit, the ep was better than I remembered. Or else just not having to sit through the treacle-laced Harlequin sappy fanfic imbued yearning eyes meeting across a crowded room leading to mooning on the balcony (in the emotional sense, not in the heinie exposed sense-now that's a scene I would have really enjoyed. Can't you see Gabrielle as a mooner? I sure can.); perhaps not having to sit through all that to me totally off base characterization made the rest of the ep more palatable. I still say, no matter what happened or didn't happen in Xena's life, she would NEVER have become a woman like that. (And Ife-don't start with me. Just don't. Grin) I had a real "Uh-oh" moment when I suddenly remembered that the crucifixion scene was coming up. Crucifixion scenes that have absurd responses on the part of the crucified always make me laugh. These include the one in Bitter Suite where Xena bursts into song and the one in WFC where Xena, in total extremis, breathily simpers out "I love you Gabrielle". (Her SCREAMING out Gabrielle's name in Friend In Need is far superior and totally believable to me.) Ides of March is the only ep where the crucifixion scene is not risible in the least to me. (Although the clunky, blatant "LOOK-WE AIN'T REALLY GONE!" meeting of the spirits in the air after they die is a real eye-roller, I think.) So anyway, I'm sitting there and saying to myself in a very stern and warning tone, "You will NOT laugh. If you DO laugh, some of these people around you will probably pummel you. So just stifle yourself!" And the scene shows and I do manage to hang tight. BUT two women in front of and to the left of me start to giggle and then I hear a person behind me trying to swallow a chuckle too. So, that was that-giggle city in that section of the audience. And dead, huffy silence from the other people around us. The first guest today was Katherine Fugate, the writer of When Fates Collide. (It's French-Foo-Jay-I didn't realize that-I was thinking of her as Foo-Gate.). She was very well spoken, interesting and warmed up into laughing with us after a few minutes. She said that she and Renee had become very good friends because they both like to analyze things minutely. And she was effusive in her praise of Renee's interest in the script and in her welcoming and enthusiastic response to Katherine being on the set, available to discuss nuances of the story with her. She talked about being there for a good week or so and not understanding one word Lucy said to her. She said, "Finally I just said to her, 'Look, just talk to me like Xena would', and that worked just fine". She said that the theme in Fates was one which she's thought about for a long time. How everything happens just as it should and it's important to realize this about your life. She said, "You know, 'the grass is always greener'. But is it better?" Katherine said that Fates was essentially a Mary Sue. That there was a "LOT of me in that Gabrielle". She talked about watching it today with us on the big screen and laughed a little over how melodramatic and overblown it was. But she said that in this genre melodramatic is often appropriate. Someone asked "Was there anything cut out of the script?" And Katherine, obviously realizing what the questioner wanted to bring out said, "Oh, you mean the kiss?" And she said that in the cell scene she and Rob had a kiss written in and then Rob decided to take it out to save the kiss for the last ep. Then she was asked if anybody had any objections to the kiss and she said no. "All of the people I talked to about it were totally supportive of it." Someone else asked a question to bring out Fates being used as the very last ep. And Katherine answered that there had been some discussion on that. Which makes absolutely no sense to me-it was no more of an ending than any other ep. Why would it work as an ending-nothing was resolved in it-it was just the season six companion piece to the Way where Krishna tells Xena that the way of the Warrior is the right path for her and that she needed to follow the path of her life just exactly as she had done, and Chakram, where we all realize that Xena is not Xena without her dark side. (Something MANY of us knew right from the start.) I suspect that the only reason this being an ending ep was even discussed was because it was filmed so late in the series. I imagine it wasn't a serious contender-I can't believe that Rob and RJ would give up having the final word on the story of Xena-as they did with FIN. Actually, we were given four "ending" eps in season six. Many Happy Returns, where the grrls literally and stereotypically ride off into the sunset together (but with the classic XWP quirk of using a god's helmet to travel); Send in the Clones, where the grrl's bodies are cloned with their memories of their real world (rather than the show's world) intact and therefore restored to life in present day America, riding off to new adventures in a cab; Soul Possession, where the souls of the grrls reincarnate and finally get switched back into their appropriate look-alike bodies and walk off together towards new adventures (and both of these are post Xena's redemption of course) and Friend in Need. But Fates as an ending? If Fates, why not Gurkahn? Why not Heart of Darkness? Why not God You Know? None of these were ending eps and certainly Fates wasn't either. I'm very glad that idea was dropped. Someone asked Katherine about the flatness of the ending scene of the ep and she said that she wanted them to be very matter-of-fact about what had happened. She told a little story about being in a big earthquake in L.A. and running over to her sister's house after it, wondering if everyone was okay or not. And how, when she saw her sister the first thing her sister said to her was, "Nice haircut." And Katherine said this is how people really react when something so major and literally earth shattering occurs. You just zone in on the little, everyday things, you don't scream and throw your arms around each other and sob, "I thought I had LOST you!" When she said that it made me realize what I had subconsciously "seen". I was looking at her and thinking, "She's different-she's not like the other grrls." And I looked at her clothes-she had on a red satin blouse, not buttoned up to her neck, casual and nice, just like anyone else might wear onstage at a con, so it wasn't her clothes. And I suddenly realized that she had a "do". Her hair was curled, combed and sprayed into a do. And that's what was so different. All the other XWP women don't give a damn about their hair. Claire was running her hands through her hair just like Lucy does all the time when onstage at a con. Watch the Pasadena video-Lucy runs her hands through her hair so much that at one point she's created a little pouf over her ear made out of errant hair. And when watching Clones just before I left to come down here, I was grinning to myself over how shaggy Renee's hair was in that ep-just little bits and pieces sticking out here and there, kind of haphazardly lying around her head. I love it in the show when the wind whips around them and their hair actually MOVES. You just don't see that on other shows-partially because most shows aren't shot outside. I've always enjoyed the Laissez Faire attitude of the women on the show regarding their "do's". And Katherine's hair was not quite so casual. No one asked her if she liked FIN so I suspect that if she hated it she doesn't say so publicly or she may say she figures it was Rob's show to end the way he wanted it to or gods, maybe she even DOES appreciate it! Shrug. At any rate, no one brought that up with her. Katherine sounded slightly disgruntled that the actors had adlibbed the very ending lines. She said, "Apparently that's a little private joke between Lucy and Rob." She was referring of course, to the "It needed a fight" line which ends that ep. She was gracious, fun and interesting-I'm glad they had her. I haven't seen a lot of writer's at the cons and I enjoy them when they do show up. That's one thing I missed about this con-there were no technical bits. No special effects people, no editors, no stunties or body doubles. I like that stuff. Katie Stuart who played Genia the virgin sacrifice in Many Happy Returns came out next. The video for her was cut to "Like a Virgin". She is EXTREMELY self-possessed for a seventeen year old. I think she said she'd been singing since she was four years old. She's actually trying to make it as a singer. The minute she said that, someone asked her to sing and she sang the Star Spangled Banner since she had just sung it somewhere recently and so had been practicing it. We of course all stood up, but unfortunately, no one thought about doing the wave. That would have been cool. Someone asked her if she was a fan of the show when she was hired for it and she said, "Oh, EVERYBODY loves Xena!" But I had the definite feeling that she wasn't a con-goer level of fan, ya know, that if she wasn't on that side of the footlights, she wouldn't be here at all. She had a good voice, especially given the choice of material which is a real bear to do. She LOVED New Zealand, thought it was one of the most beautiful places she'd ever seen. Next up was William Gregory Lee, who played Virgil. He started by expressing condolences for Kevin's family. He is SUCH a boy. He had a baseball cap on. Someone asked him to remove it for a picture so he did. Then he was told to keep it off so we could see him better, but he demurred, saying that it was his trademark. He compromised by putting it back on backwards. He was asked something about if he had hoped to be brought back for another appearance on XWP. (Just like yesterday, we continued with questions being called out from the seats. And not everyone spoke loudly enough for us all to hear, so if the person on the stage didn't repeat them, you'd have to guess at what exactly had been asked. Most of the time it was obvious what had been asked but sometimes you just thought, "Whaaaa?") Greg said that he would have been glad to go back and I believe he said they had contacted him, but that he had made the commitment to Dark Angel and so was unavailable. And then he said that he wasn't sure he would be back on Dark Angel because there were "artistic differences" between him and the producers. He talked about how he played the character, had a different take on the character than the producers had wanted. The on set folks were behind him, but not the office boys. And that when they weren't sure if the show would go on, it was not so big a problem. But now that the show is continuing and the character is so important in the show, there's a problem between the on set folks and the "suits" in the office. So they're calling it "creative differences" and he didn't sound very hopeful about continuing with the show. And he talked about how flexible and supportive RenPic was with the actors. How everyone just made him feel like one of the family from the first moment he arrived on set. Someone asked something about how Virgil could be such a good warrior with Joxer as his father. And I believe someone screamed out from the audience, "He took after Meg!" But he also talked about how Joxer was sometimes a good warrior. And that he wasn't Joxer, so he shouldn't be expected to be just like him. Next they showed the season five bloopers. Now we're waiting for Alexandra Tydings to take the stage. KT P.S. Okay-someone wrote me and told me the song used for Varia's video was Love is a Battlefield done by Pat Benatar. P.P.S. As we headed back down south to Houston from Route 66, it just got hotter and hotter and we took off more and more layers until I figured that by the time we got to Houston, I'd be driving naked-something that hasn't been a pretty sight for a while now. Then we got here and it was like 20 degrees at night--we broke records with the cold! The Houstonians are all huddled in their homes, moaning like freezing little Dickensonian orphans. P.P.P.S. The Houston Live Stock Show and Rodeo is on again-Willie Nelson sang last night. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 01:51:17 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] CON 2002 Day 2, Saturday Nice report, KT! I'll just comment on a couple of your asides.... (snip) > I was not present for the very beginning of the program on Saturday. The > first thing on the schedule was a showing of "When Fates Collide". As > some of you may know, it's not one I particularly liked. So I took my > time getting over there. > > I came in on the scene where they are about to crucify Gabrielle. And I > have to admit, the ep was better than I remembered. Should we read something into that? Was this a Freudian slip? (snip) > > I had a real "Uh-oh" moment when I suddenly remembered that the > crucifixion scene was coming up. Crucifixion scenes that have absurd > responses on the part of the crucified always make me laugh. These > include the one in Bitter Suite where Xena bursts into song and the one in > WFC where Xena, in total extremis, breathily simpers out "I love you > Gabrielle". (Her SCREAMING out Gabrielle's name in Friend In Need is far > superior and totally believable to me.) Ides of March is the only ep where > the crucifixion scene is not risible in the least to me. (Although the > clunky, blatant "LOOK-WE AIN'T REALLY GONE!" meeting of the spirits in the > air after they die is a real eye-roller, I think.) Yep, I was dumbstruck the way TPTB sabotaged the mood of that scene. I know why they did it, but I wish they hadn't. You forgot Destiny, btw - nothing absurd about that one, either the initial crucifixion scene courtesy of C,JC or the later one with M'Lila. > > Someone asked Katherine about the flatness of the ending scene of the ep > and she said that she wanted them to be very matter-of-fact about what had > happened. She told a little story about being in a big earthquake in L.A. > and running over to her sister's house after it, wondering if everyone was > okay or not. And how, when she saw her sister the first thing her sister > said to her was, "Nice haircut." And Katherine said this is how people > really react when something so major and literally earth shattering > occurs. You just zone in on the little, everyday things, you don't scream > and throw your arms around each other and sob, "I thought I had LOST you!" I saw it, not as them being in shock, but as them 'picking up where they left off'. But it worked fine for me - much better than any histrionics would've done. But the 'in shock' interpretation works fine too. > > No one asked her if she liked FIN so I suspect that if she hated it she > doesn't say so publicly or she may say she figures it was Rob's show to > end the way he wanted it to or gods, maybe she even DOES appreciate it! > Shrug. At any rate, no one brought that up with her. She said fairly emphatically in her excellent Whoosh interview (Whoosh 58) that it's Rob and RJ's show (para 89). This was before FIN screened, I think. And on her site (www.katherinefugate.com) when a couple of questions have implicitly invited her to criticise FIN, she's simply avoided the issue. T > Katherine sounded slightly disgruntled that the actors had adlibbed the > very ending lines. She said, "Apparently that's a little private joke > between Lucy and Rob." She was referring of course, to the "It needed a > fight" line which ends that ep. She was gracious, fun and interesting-I'm > glad they had her. I haven't seen a lot of writer's at the cons and I > enjoy them when they do show up. > > That's one thing I missed about this con-there were no technical bits. No > special effects people, no editors, no stunties or body doubles. I like > that stuff. > > Katie Stuart who played Genia the virgin sacrifice in Many Happy Returns > came out next. The video for her was cut to "Like a Virgin". > > She is EXTREMELY self-possessed for a seventeen year old. I think she > said she'd been singing since she was four years old. She's actually > trying to make it as a singer. The minute she said that, someone asked > her to sing and she sang the Star Spangled Banner since she had just sung > it somewhere recently and so had been practicing it. We of course all > stood up, but unfortunately, no one thought about doing the wave. That > would have been cool. > > Someone asked her if she was a fan of the show when she was hired for it > and she said, "Oh, EVERYBODY loves Xena!" But I had the definite feeling > that she wasn't a con-goer level of fan, ya know, that if she wasn't on > that side of the footlights, she wouldn't be here at all. > > She had a good voice, especially given the choice of material which is a > real bear to do. > > She LOVED New Zealand, thought it was one of the most beautiful places > she'd ever seen. > > Next up was William Gregory Lee, who played Virgil. He started by > expressing condolences for Kevin's family. > > He is SUCH a boy. He had a baseball cap on. Someone asked him to remove > it for a picture so he did. Then he was told to keep it off so we could > see him better, but he demurred, saying that it was his trademark. He > compromised by putting it back on backwards. > > He was asked something about if he had hoped to be brought back for > another appearance on XWP. (Just like yesterday, we continued with > questions being called out from the seats. And not everyone spoke loudly > enough for us all to hear, so if the person on the stage didn't repeat > them, you'd have to guess at what exactly had been asked. Most of the time > it was obvious what had been asked but sometimes you just thought, > "Whaaaa?") > > Greg said that he would have been glad to go back and I believe he said > they had contacted him, but that he had made the commitment to Dark Angel > and so was unavailable. And then he said that he wasn't sure he would be > back on Dark Angel because there were "artistic differences" between him > and the producers. > > He talked about how he played the character, had a different take on the > character than the producers had wanted. The on set folks were behind > him, but not the office boys. And that when they weren't sure if the show > would go on, it was not so big a problem. But now that the show is > continuing and the character is so important in the show, there's a > problem between the on set folks and the "suits" in the office. So > they're calling it "creative differences" and he didn't sound very hopeful > about continuing with the show. > > And he talked about how flexible and supportive RenPic was with the > actors. How everyone just made him feel like one of the family from the > first moment he arrived on set. > > Someone asked something about how Virgil could be such a good > warrior with Joxer as his father. And I believe someone screamed out from > the audience, "He took after Meg!" But he also talked about how Joxer was > sometimes a good warrior. And that he wasn't Joxer, so he shouldn't be > expected to be just like him. > > Next they showed the season five bloopers. > > Now we're waiting for Alexandra Tydings to take the stage. > > KT > P.S. Okay-someone wrote me and told me the song used for Varia's video was > Love is a Battlefield done by Pat Benatar. > > P.P.S. As we headed back down south to Houston from Route 66, it just got > hotter and hotter and we took off more and more layers until I figured > that by the time we got to Houston, I'd be driving naked-something that > hasn't been a pretty sight for a while now. Then we got here and it was > like 20 degrees at night--we broke records with the cold! The Houstonians > are all huddled in their homes, moaning like freezing little Dickensonian > orphans. > > P.P.P.S. The Houston Live Stock Show and Rodeo is on again-Willie Nelson > sang last night. > ========================================================= > This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with > "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. > Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. > ========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:56:42 EST From: Xwpacolyte@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Answer to that trivia question In a message dated 3/1/02 11:20:30 PM Central Standard Time, "H.J.J. Hewitt" writes: << As hostess on the travel series, in the ep on Berlin (I'm pretty sure it was Berlin), she observes a street busker who does the flame-blowing trick. >> Are those travel series shows with LL hosting commercially available for USA tape decks? I'd sure like to collect them. If not, then... maybe someday? XWPacolyte Cupid and Psyche... Antony and Cleopatra... Xena and Gabrielle. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:02:33 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] CON 2002 Day 2, Saturday In a message dated 3/2/2002 3:21:11 AM Central Standard Time, fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes: > I came in on the scene where they are about to crucify Gabrielle. And I > have to admit, the ep was better than I remembered. Or else just not > having to sit through the treacle-laced Harlequin sappy fanfic imbued > yearning eyes meeting across a crowded room leading to mooning on the > balcony (in the emotional sense, not in the heinie exposed sense-now > that's a scene I would have really enjoyed. Can't you see Gabrielle as a > mooner? I sure can.); perhaps not having to sit through all that to me > totally off base characterization made the rest of the ep more palatable. > I still say, no matter what happened or didn't happen in Xena's life, she > would NEVER have become a woman like that. (And Ife-don't start with me. > Just don't. Grin) > OK, now you've earned a growl. Grrrr. (Happy now?) Wonderful report, despite the gratuitous editorializing, which suggests that we now have a third area of disagreement. And here I thought I was the one without a romantic bone in my body. Yeah, yeah, I know -- it's the *sappy* romance you don't like. We just have different views of what was sap. So here's my gratuitous editorializing: Xena COULD TOO have been like that. Na na na na na. - -- Ife (thinking we aren't setting a very good example of middle-aged maturity) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:08:14 -0600 From: "H.J.J. Hewitt" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: Con 2002 KTL reports that-- >[Katherine Fugate] talked about being there for a good week or >so and not understanding one word Lucy said to her. That's how I felt on watching the "Kaffe Klatch" on the new Creation tape. It needed captions! I often had to try to figure out what Lucy said from what Renee said before and after. (It's amazing to me, even as a student of dialects, how much a regional pronunciation can change over just a couple generations. When I was there in the 60's, the change of the short-E vowel to more like short-I [like in "gintleman" for "gentleman"] was just barely beginning.) TEXena ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:23:04 -0600 From: "H.J.J. Hewitt" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: Answer to trivia question XWPacolyte inquired-- >Are those travel series shows with LL hosting commercially available for >USA tape decks? Not that I've ever heard of. I got mine 'waaaay back, no later than season 2, from a truly \Fanatic Completist/ who wanted the extremely rare couple minutes of local coverage of Renee's very first autographing party (at Threadgill's) bad enough to trade me a tape full of all kinds of the less-available X:WP stuff such as the travel series, "Funny Business" eps, LL's N.Z. commercials, etc., etc.. TEXena ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:47:39 -0600 From: "H.J.J. Hewitt" Subject: [chakram-refugees] The travel series To my-- >>As hostess on the travel series, in the ep on Berlin (I'm pretty sure >>it was Berlin), she observes a street busker who does the >>flame-blowing trick. Lee inquired-- >Wasn't that in one of the ET bio's??? I don't t-h-i-n-k so... I've seen all of those except for maybe some very short snippets, and if it had been shown, I would think there'd have been some comment on the list that would reinforce the memory. Not that even the most devoted fans can't forget-- like Lucy & Rob's early recommendations of environmental concerns (e.g., marine environment) as recipients of fans' donations. But that went by the wayside and the focus has been overwhelmingly on people-oriented causes. Another thing forgotten so far as \I/ know, which has really puzzled me, was Lucy's remark from back in season 1 when X:WP was just taking off big-- that she'd really know she'd made it big when there was a Xena Pez-dispenser. If it didn't happen it's too late now, alas, to bombard the company with requests. TEXena ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:15:44 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] Lucy on Xena's "Mentoring" I've always been a bit confused about what TPTB were trying to do with Gabrielle's supposed predecessors in Xena's life -- e.g., Anokin (the girl killed in Sin Trade) or Akemi. It seemed to me they were trying to make some comment about Xena's need for, but inability to achieve, true friendship in her darker years. Sharon Delaney asked Rob Tapert and Lucy about this in the latest Chakram newsletter (No. 17). I'll include spoiler space for those who might be planning on reading the responses on their own or might not have seen A Friend In Need. S P O I L E R SPACE (for AFIN also) Tapert suggests that Xena sees in these young women "a portion of that which was in her before she became a warlord. The innocence of youth and that which Xena lost in her life as a warlord." He says, "She wants to mentor them, but, on an even deeper level, she wants to make sure they don't fall into the traps she fell into." Personally, I didn't see Xena as trying to protect Anokin or Akem, let alone being that interested in whatever innocence they had. Lucy agrees with the mentoring aspect, but with a slightly different take. "I think Xena doesn't want to mentor them because she wants to be a teacher. She is drawn to their respect and innocence. She wants to be respected by someone who is good and innocent. She has never had anyone truly love her in a non-sexual, non-avaricious way. Never had anyone love and respect her. And these young people, she craves their indulgence." She adds, "Xena doesn't even understand where that comes from. But it's that lost piece of her potential she's drawn back to again and again. If she understood it more, she'd be jealous. But she doesn't." Interestingly, I can see Lucy's interpretation in some of the scenes with Anokin and Akemi. I also saw a bit of it in her somewhat conflicted look as Warlord Xena in Locked Up, when she thought that the crabs had eaten that redhead -- beyond simply, "Oh, boy, I didn't expect that to happen." Unfortunately, that all got muddled for me. I'm not sure if it was a lack of clarity in the writing or conceptualization, the fact that it seemed sort of unbelievable in light of the horrors they heaped on pre-reformed Xena, the suggestion that she and/or her "mentee" saw/used the other as a sex object, or because it didn't seem to have the plausible "connection" Xenastaff may have been trying to make to Xena's later attraction to Gabrielle. The mentor role was a lot clearer to me with Reformed Xena, e.g., with the young Amazons, Tara and certainly Gabrielle. Otherwise, the subtleties of Xena's early mentoring didn't seem particularly well developed. Lucy's explanation at least helps me understand what she was trying to achieve in what I found to be puzzling relationships with Anokin and Akemi. I basically ended up viewing them as a plot device, which was unfortunate in Akemi's case, given her importance to what transpired in AFIN. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:07:18 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] CON 2002 Day 2, Saturday On Sunday 03 March 2002 09:02, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/2/2002 3:21:11 AM Central Standard Time, > > > OK, now you've earned a growl. Grrrr. (Happy now?) Wonderful report, > despite the gratuitous editorializing, which suggests that we now have a > third area of disagreement. And here I thought I was the one without a > romantic bone in my body. Yeah, yeah, I know -- it's the *sappy* romance > you don't like. We just have different views of what was sap. So here's > my gratuitous editorializing: Xena COULD TOO have been like that. Na na > na na na. > > -- Ife (thinking we aren't setting a very good example of middle-aged > maturity) Oh, I think it's a pretty good example of middle-aged maturity as far as the Xenaverse goes.... .... anything that isn't actually bursting into flames... :) Thelonius ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:39:03 -0500 From: "bookdaft" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] Speakers' Fees Sorry that this response comes so much later than when it was posted, but I'm slowly working my way through my e-mail. There has been a lot going on lately. I was at the Chicago Creation con back in January, and your comments reminded me of an explanation of why some television shows don't seem to be represented at some of the Creation cons. Richard Arnold, who is the Star Trek equivalent to Sharon Delaney, explained that some actors don't care to interact with the fans and often will use high speaking or performing fees as a barrier of unavailability. He mentioned that David Boreanaz asked for $100,000 to appear. Needless to say, Creation thought that was a little high and so Mr Boreanaz has not appeared with them. Having heard this, I think the support that the Xena actors (and the Trek actors, too, as well as all the others who come to these types of conventions) exhibit in support for the shows is admirable. Sometimes it is a question of helping to earn some money while in between gigs, but more often than not it is more than that. My hat is off to them. bd - -----Original Message----- From: owner-chakram-refugees@smoe.org [mailto:owner-chakram-refugees@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Jackie M. Young Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 1:11 AM To: xena list Subject: [chakram-refugees] Speakers' Fees I just finished talking to Melinda Clarke's manager the other day about her possibly coming down to our next Hawai'i Xenafest, and I was *astounded* at the amount of $$ some of these speakers are asking for accommodations and fees!! ;( Her manager said she usually asks for and gets, air fare for herself, her husband, and her baby, as well as hotel accommodations, and a speaker's fee of $3,000 - $5,000!!! ;( YIKES!!! I don't think our little club can handle that!!! :=( So any of you who think Creation's charging outrageous fees for cons, well.......this is why.....;P Having been at the "management" end of fests, I can say that it's *very expensive* to put one of these suckers on.....;=( Just FYI, - --Jackie ****************************************************** * Proud to have the same birthday as Lucy Lawless! * * * * "I think New Zealand geographically comes from * * ... Hawai'i." --Lucy Lawless, Late Show, 4/9/96 * * * * JACKIE YOUNG, JYOUNG@LAVA.NET * * * ****************************************************** ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #58 *************************************