From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #18 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Sunday, January 20 2002 Volume 02 : Number 018 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] Re: [Flawless] Lucy's Worst Episode? [IfeRae@aol.com] RE: [chakram-refugees] <> (fwd) [KTL ] RE: [chakram-refugees] <> was: <> (fwd) [] [chakram-refugees] Re: Sister WonderWoman at Pasadena Convention [John Al] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 00:30:13 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: [Flawless] Lucy's Worst Episode? In a message dated 1/16/2002 6:12:32 PM Central Standard Time, fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes: S P O I E R SPACE FOR FIN > When she skewers Yodoshi at the end, it's > already in slow-mo and she's got this ...well oddly enough, it reminds me > of a little kid's face. She's got this "Yeah, I'm doing it, I'm getting > it right, I will finish this" and then she gets this fierce, serious, "I > do'd it!" four year old's look on her face. That total unembarrassed, > unabashed pride in doing things right in life. Kids just don't dissemble > much when they feel victorious and successful--they just let it all hang > out. It's lovely to see. (Both kids being that way and Lucy acting it > out.) Boy, do you nail what I felt but couldn't quite put my finger on. After all those years of angst, an expression of innocence that pulled at my heart-strings, even tho I too was going, "Yes!" at her skewering Yodoshi. LOL! What an ironic contrast, eh? And maybe that's how Lucy felt about the end of her Xena career too? - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 04:26:08 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] <> (fwd) Hey, here's an old one! On Sun, 2 Dec 2001, Lee Daley wrote: > > > And I'll reply back, with much snippage because I really do agree with most > of what KTL wrote > > > > > Yeah, certainly that's true. I think also that if PacRen had introduced > > us to the Xena we saw in the Debt right from ep one, it would have been > > much harder for us to take to the grrl quite so much. > > Actually it would never have gotten on the air. Hey, I bet that's true! It barely got on the air as it was. > > > > > > > I didn't leap right into Xena when I first saw it at the beginning of > > season two. I have just never been a fan of the T&A action adventure > > genre. I was doing my Russian homework very late every Sunday > > night/early Monday morning and there were literally only two stations on > > the air at that time. One showed infomercials and one showed Xena. Xena > > barely won... > > > Lucy Lawless vs. Ron Popiel, I'm not sure if I sould laugh or cry. > Certainly a possible "Celebrity Deathmatch" > > LOL! Gods, where would they stick him? Euuuwwwww. > > > > > I think the initial buzz was the female warrior and the continuing buzz > > was the strong female relationships being portrayed and honored along with > > the very high percentage of female characters. The heros, the villians, > > the priests, the warriors were all mostly female. I remember staring > > at the screen one night watching Hooves and Harlots and suddenly realizing > > with vast delight that for once we had a screenful of strong women who > > were the focus of the story and not just the little companion of some guy > > whom the story was really about. It was breathtaking to me. > > > > And something we had NEVER seen before. It is now taken for granted, but it > was groundbreaking at the time. Again, excellent point. Tapert's genius was in giving Xena a female sidekick. Why two women together is groundbreaking is an interesting commentary of its own--but it is. I mean I remember the flurry about "Thelma and Louise"--lots of talk about it being a female buddy movie. Certainly Cagney and Lacey were early groundbreakers too. But where's the many follow ups to these very successful shows? I mean we get endless Die hard, harder, hardest, most hard, etc. etc. and new male couplings (so to speak) all the time. But where's the grrl buddy stories? I guess the last Alien was one, but boy, are they few and far between. And even Xena's children--Dark Angel, Relic Hunter, that female Zorro one, they missed the female relationship angle that was so (for a woman) familiar and comfortable and a slice of real life on XWP. > > > the increased production values (which were always good, but > > I think the Debts was the first ep that reached almost movie screen > > quality) and the willingness of Tapert and Stewart to push the entire > > staff from actors to directors to writers to set designers to costumers, > > etc. etc. etc. > > That has to be one factor, that TPTB produced a one hour MOVIE on a WEEKly > basis. Talk about raising the bar. > Yes! I'm on an X-Files list I drifted onto when Lucy was about to be on that show. (I was snooping to see what they'd say about her. Mostly very good, AFTER the show. Before, there were some hysterical comments.) Anyway, it's usually pretty quiet but there's much more talk now that it's been announced that X-Files is ending this year. And a couple of posts mentioned the production values of that show, as being a unique pushing of the envelope. And I would agree--X files was always visually arresting. It had a very high quotient of images telling some of the story--even just in things like showing a close up of a car's headlight or skimming across a tray of Scully's autopsy tools, or scanning across a room from a hidden corner towards the character coming through the doorway. Just nice stuff that stuck in your mind. It's kind of like how we look at things and see them. We don't just stand and stare--our eyes check out the surroundings, we look away during conversations, look at the ground or the wall when we're taking in and assessing info, etc. Xena was different than this, but also unique in it's own way. More, XWP seemed to go for beautiful or striking whole screen images--almost constructed like a painting, excellent composition. I KNOW the ending tableau in Fallen Angel has to be based upon a painting-I haven't been able to find it though. I mean the other images in there are from Gustave Dore's illustrations of Dante's Inferno. Hmmm. Perhaps that's one too that just isn't in the book on Dore's work we happen to have in our house. XWP was a beautifully constructed and photographed work. > > > Bitter Suite was a phenomenal offering, one that was just > > so out there that it truly was distinctive and original. > > And is now being copied Ayup! > > > > > The amazing thing is that TPTB took the risk to let the show, and the > > > actresses grow into something better. They had enough faith in > > themselves > > > and in US to "mess with success". > > > > > > Yes, that is an EXCELLENT point. Very good insight. Yeah, they pushed > > us, they tormented us, they made us ache and rage. Right up to the > > very end, obviously. > > Would you have expected anything less? That's one of the reasons I'm not in > the "I Hate FIN" club. It may not have been the ending I wanted, but it was > consistent with their behavior. Absofurkenlutely. KT > > > > Thanks for the interesting, thought-provoking reply. > > > You're more than welcome > > > LeeD> ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 11:05:31 EST From: BElannafan@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] xena on oxygen - live chat In a message dated 1/18/2002 12:44:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, taurodea@yahoo.com writes: << This has everything to do with finding advertising space, and using it. Fans have money. The black bar is simply filled with chat and barbs while it's not being used to promote Oxygen, credit cards, cars, pharmaceuticals, vitamins and whatever else their sponsors pay for. It's nothing to do with whether or not people want to see something, it's everything to do with 'where can we squeeze a bit of advertising space in?' >> The next strategy that can be used is to write These Advertisers and tell them that you will not use their credit cards or buy their products, ect. because of Oxygen's advertising strategies. Oxygen has completely lost a viewer in me because of this black line so I don't even know whose ads pay for the show. BUT if those of you who do watch the show will let me know whose ads are across the bottom of the screen I will gladly write them to tell them of my boycott. ============================================================ Consideration is given, Respect is earned, Jan. You know you're a redneck Jedi when Darth Vader says' "Come with me, Luke. I am your father and your uncle." ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 14:40:03 EST From: BElannafan@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] Buffy (OT) Just went to Costco (one of those member stores that sells overstock and big things cheap) and found the 1st season of Buffy for about $4 cheaper than on line (About $6 less when you include the shipping). So for those of you out there who are members of Costco, Sam's or other such stores there may be a possibility that those stores will get Buffy at a reduced price. ============================================================ Consideration is given, Respect is earned, Jan. You know you're a redneck Jedi when Darth Vader says' "Come with me, Luke. I am your father and your uncle." ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 16:12:56 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: [Flawless] worst ep In a message dated 1/19/2002 1:43:59 AM Central Standard Time, d.t.miller@juno.com writes: > i didnt especially enjoy the way she portrayed xena in the Send > > in the > > Clones ep. im not exactly sure what she was trying to do there. > > > > ~jewel > > > > > > She seemed to chose to play the "real" Xena as a little more "butch." :~) > > Ah, I love the naughty little lilt in her voice, > when Xena declared the woman playing her > was kind of sexy. > > Xena wants Lucy!? > > At the same time, > my mind boggled, > and I nearly fell of the couch from laughter. > LOL! I was reminded of Gabrielle's less-than-complimentary view of who should portray Xena in "The Play's The Thing." Xena's comment in "Clones" suggested to me a "Now, there's an actress with the portrayal I could go for," as well as a tongue-in-cheek "not bad" from Lucy about herself. But your interpretation brings in a subtext angle I hadn't considered. Ah, the many layers of XWP. As to Lucy's acting choices in "Clones," I thought she was showing a Xena who hadn't been "programmed" yet with Gabrielle's softening influence, so had returned to the swaggering boorishness of early warlord Xena, but translated to how that might play out in a modern context -- e.g., tackling pizza like it was leg of lamb, being fascinated with power tools (which she found more practical and hands-on than the gun), foregoing any subtlety or idealism in being a "hero." True, it came off as more "butch," but not necessarily moreso than she appeared in the context of some eps in ancient times. I always liked seeing the different nuances Lucy gave the various versions of Xena we saw, even though I wasn't always sure at first (or even later) what was in her head. But I usually discover on re-watching that there was more method to her madness than I initially may have thought. :-) - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 12:46:14 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: [Flawless] worst ep First off, Ife, let me quietly whisper to you that these are Flawless posts that you are replying to on Chakram. Smile. > d.t.miller@juno.com writes: > > > > She seemed to chose to play the "real" Xena as a little more "butch." :~) > > > > Ah, I love the naughty little lilt in her voice, > > when Xena declared the woman playing her > > was kind of sexy. > > > > Xena wants Lucy!? She's SUCH a slut! > > > > At the same time, > > my mind boggled, > > and I nearly fell of the couch from laughter. > > > > LOL! I was reminded of Gabrielle's less-than-complimentary view of who > should portray Xena in "The Play's The Thing." Xena's comment in "Clones" > suggested to me a "Now, there's an actress with the portrayal I could go > for," as well as a tongue-in-cheek "not bad" from Lucy about herself. But > your interpretation brings in a subtext angle I hadn't considered. Ah, the > many layers of XWP. > > As to Lucy's acting choices in "Clones," I thought she was showing a Xena who > hadn't been "programmed" yet with Gabrielle's softening influence, so had > returned to the swaggering boorishness of early warlord Xena, but translated > to how that might play out in a modern context -- e.g., tackling pizza like > it was leg of lamb, being fascinated with power tools (which she found more > practical and hands-on than the gun), foregoing any subtlety or idealism in > being a "hero." True, it came off as more "butch," but not necessarily > moreso than she appeared in the context of some eps in ancient times. > What I saw it as was post reformation Xena. This Xena is the one who went through FIN and made up for and therefore could lay aside her guilt, anguish and self-hatred, because she had atoned for them through her sacrifice. I don't think it's a simple throw-away line when she says, "That old greater-good thing? I don't know, it kinda doesn't appeal this time around". She doesn't HAVE to do it in this lifetime, because she finished the quest she had in the past--to redeem herself Knowing (and loving) Xena, I'd bet she will be doing greater good stuff but not with the same impetus, not for the same reason. Remember what she says in the ep, "The Greater Good"? When Gabrielle is telling her to take it easy because she's so sick, to stop worrying about others and worry about herself. She says, "It's not about me. Its about these people. That's why we're here. People like this used to be my victims. I keep that in mind every time we come up against a warlord like Talmadeus." (From Whoosh transcipt--I don't have time today to check it myself). THAT Xena owes people. Clones Xena don't. It's that simple to me. The minute I first heard it, my ears perked up and I remember thinking, "Uuuh-oh!" > I always liked seeing the different nuances Lucy gave the various versions of > Xena we saw, even though I wasn't always sure at first (or even later) what > was in her head. But I usually discover on re-watching that there was more > method to her madness than I initially may have thought. :-) > LOL! I flatter myself that I always knew what Lucy was going after in terms of trying to show what Xena was thinking, or actually, more WHY she was thinking/acting this way. And I never was shown up by what happened later in an ep. So my gut reactions to Lucy's acting choices were born out by the unfolding story. I didn't get this same thing from Renee. There were a number of times she'd do things and I'd wonder, "What's Gabrielle thinking there?" "What's she doing?" In fact in FIN, I didn't know what she was doing the first couple of times I watched the ending, when she was draped across the fountain facing the camera. I thought maybe she was just trying to be dramatic and show a tired, hurt and exhausted Gabrielle who can't even stand up without support. But no, I finally realized she was just swishing the water around in her mouth, trying to show us she still had it in there after the fireball. But Xena--I ALWAYS knew what Xena was doing. KT (taking Iferae by the hand and leading her back to Flawless) > -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 12:20:45 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: FIN DVD On Saturday 19 January 2002 14:15, Cheryl Ande wrote: (snips) > 4. Yes there is the scantily clad contingent out there who are attracted > to beautiful women with swords Would you care to rephrase that? I'm certainly attracted to beautiful women with swords, but in the interests of public decency (not to mention avoiding widespread ridicule of my figure which falls slightly short of Kevin S standards whether Sorbo or Smith) I usually find it advisable to keep all my clothes on while admiring them. :) Thelonius ... happily splitting hairs. I do agree with your message, btw ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 15:55:23 -0800 (PST) From: "S. Wilson" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] <> was: <> (fwd) Um.... spoilers for everything on tv. . . . . Just kidding. Xena: AFINs, Destiny, Fallen Angel... all those great epic eps and more. Mentions of X-Files, Dark Angel, etc. Oh, and Thelma and Louise. . . (I lost track of who's saying what, but you know who you are, so forgive my snipping mess) . . . . > > > Yeah, certainly that's true. I think also that if PacRen had > introduced > > > us to the Xena we saw in the Debt right from ep one, it would > have been > > > much harder for us to take to the grrl quite so much. > > > > Actually it would never have gotten on the air. *I'd* have watched it! But it would have painted a totally different picture than the one I had when I started watching, and when I started watching I admit it was mainly for the light anti-hero fantasy drama predictable plot type thingy going on, *then* I was drawn to Darth Xena. Then the friendship. :P > > > I didn't leap right into Xena when I first saw it at the > beginning of > > > season two. Much like your story, I was flipping through stations late late one Sunday night and landed on some obviously low-budget, fantasy T&A sequel to "Conan the Barbarian." Flipped past. Flipped back. Past. Back. Past. Back. I kept wondering when Brigitte Neilsen was gonna come bouncing across the screen and slay some ugly gorgon or hydra king or something. Later, I learned it was a tv show called "Xena: Warrior Princess." My fate was sealed. :P Actually, it *was* fate. I moved out to my own place very shortly thereafter; I owned a tv, a vcr, and my sleeping gear. I couldn't afford cable and there was no tv reception. I'd taken a couple of VHS tapes that didn't belong to me (nyah!) and on one of them was The Greater Good and Callisto. *Then* my fate was sealed. :P > > > I think the initial buzz was the female warrior and the > continuing buzz > > > was the strong female relationships The initial buzz for me was the chick with the leather. Rraar! But that lasted only until she started dying/killing/pouring her heart out/having flashbacks/having quality time with the little blonde kid. Then, for me, I saw alot of me in her, so I was drawn in. > Again, excellent point. Tapert's genius was in giving Xena a female > sidekick. Why two women together is groundbreaking is an interesting > commentary of its own--but it is. I mean I remember the flurry about > "Thelma and Louise"--lots of talk about it being a female buddy > movie. Yeah, and you remember the hype over them holding hands, or giving a hug and kiss at the end, or just sticking by each other's side through hell and back? You'da thunk people had never even given the concept of female friendship the slightest thought. People wrote it up and said, "Well, they musta been gay." Pah! Let me clarify that statement above - 'musta been gay' - seems like when people are confused about women and friendship, really intense, loving friendship, that they categorize it as an oddity and stick a label on it. Poof, you're obviously gay. Well, maybe Thelma and Louise were the gayest chicks on the face of the earth. But gay folks have friends too, at least that's what I heard down at the local gay grapevine. ;) > Certainly Cagney and Lacey were early groundbreakers too. But where's > the > many follow ups to these very successful shows? Kate and Allie? And even Xena's children--Dark Angel, Relic Hunter, that > female > Zorro one, they missed the female relationship angle that was so (for > a > woman) familiar and comfortable and a slice of real life on XWP. You make an interesting point that I hadn't thought of - because I've tried to watch Dark Angel and all, and I find it a way interesting show, but something just isn't there for me. I think I know now what it is. Same thing with Buffy. I guess XWP has spoiled me? > > the increased production values (which were always good, but > > > I think the Debts was the first ep that reached almost movie > screen > > > quality) and the willingness of Tapert and Stewart to push the > entire > > > staff from actors to directors to writers to set designers to > costumers, > > > etc. etc. etc. Destiny. That was the first time I saw XWP with new eyes. I was so completely stunned after that episode of the quality of the film making that nothing still comes close. Now, by standards later in the series, Destiny can't really produce the goods to go up against something like Adventures in the Sin Trades, The Debts, A Friend In Need. But it also still stands apart from all the rest. I've yet to figure out exactly why, unless I say film quality, lighting, directing, music, story, whatever, all played a part, or maybe it was "Fraoch A Ronaigh" (which still gets me), or maybe it was that it still had some of the 'old show' quality with the 'new show' slick high-budget production feel... whatever the case, Destiny is still an epic event when played in this house. :D > > That has to be one factor, that TPTB produced a one hour MOVIE on a > WEEKly > > basis. Talk about raising the bar. Yeah, they really screwed with people's heads when they came out with crap like [insert crappy episode here], then turn around and knock you on your butt by producing Destiny or Fallen Angel or The Debts, with Joe LoDuca's music. Talk about cranking it up a notch or three. Re: X-Files > It had a very high quotient of images telling some of the story--even > just > in things like showing a close up of a car's headlight or skimming > across > a tray of Scully's autopsy tools, or scanning across a room from a > hidden > corner towards the character coming through the doorway. It's long been my opinion that the opening shots of "Send In the Clones" were an homage to Chris Carter's influence on TV. Aside: And I've always thought Gillian Anderson would make a great Starling or Scarpetta. (Wasn't there a movie deal going on with Patricia Cornwell a couple of years ago?) > Xena was different than this, but also unique in it's own way. More, > XWP > seemed to go for beautiful or striking whole screen images--almost > constructed like a painting, excellent composition. I KNOW the > ending > tableau in Fallen Angel has to be based upon a painting-I haven't > been > able to find it though. [snip] I mean the other images in there are from > Gustave > Dore's illustrations of Dante's Inferno. Hmmm. Perhaps that's one > too > that just isn't in the book on Dore's work we happen to have in our > house. Yeah, Dore's interpretations were used alot in FA. It had a very majestic feeling to it. What painting was it that inspired this shot? http://xenamultimedia.com/screengrabs/season5/01-fa/fa0109.jpg Part of it looks like "Beatrice Appears Among the Angels" by Dore (http://dante.ilt.columbia.edu/images/dore/pur_30.jpeg). "Because Lucy was pregnant during the filming of this episode, most shots are of either Polly (her body double) or Zoe (her stunt double). None of the harnessed Xena shots are Lucy. Almost this entire episode was shot against blue screen and originally Lucy had dubbed in lines for Demon Xena when she's carrying Gabrielle to the ledge saying stuff like "heavy birdy" which was never used in the final edit." LOL. Sheesh. (got that from Scully Xenaverse, http://ewlyn.hispeed.com/scullyxena/xena/xs5-501.html) > > Bitter Suite was a phenomenal offering, one that was just > > > so out there that it truly was distinctive and original. > > > > And is now being copied > > > Ayup! Imitation is the finest form of flattery. Or the easyest way to make a quick buck. > > Would you have expected anything less? That's one of the reasons > I'm not in > > the "I Hate FIN" club. It may not have been the ending I wanted, > but it was > > consistent with their behavior. > > > Absofurkenlutely. > > KT Yeah! What she said! S. Member, I Love FIN club Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 18:34:41 -0800 (PST) From: John Altoon Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: Sister WonderWoman at Pasadena Convention - --- "Creation (Sharon Delaney)" wrote: > Just added to the Pasadena Convention is the one-woman play > Sister WonderWoman starring Lucy's sister Josie Ryan. > > This will be part of the Friday night show. > > Sharon > Official Xena Fan Club > http://www.creationent.com > (Creation home page) > (join Creation's email mailing list on our home page for the > latest news and convention and merchandise info) I've seen two tiny photographs of her from scans of NZ papers. She seems to be as beautiful as Lucy. Is she as tall and are her eyes blue? I think Missy Good and Ladyhawke's CEO are still casting the part of Dar Roberts. - - ja Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #18 *************************************