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chakram-refugees-digest  Wednesday, December 5 2001  Volume 01 : Number 060



                               Today's Subjects:
                               -----------------
  Re: [chakram-refugees] OS/Gina Torres - "Alias"  ["H.J.J. Hewitt" <hjjh@ma]
  RE: [chakram-refugees] <<The Black Wolf and Beware Of Greeks &  X-Files (sort of  [Xwpacolyt]
  [chakram-refugees] <<Black Wolf & Beware of Greeks>>  [Lilli Sprintz <spri]
  [chakram-refugees] last post Violence and X-Files (?)  [Lilli Sprintz <spr]
  Re: [chakram-refugees] Bruce Campbell in "The Ice Rink"  ["Daniel T. Mille]

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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 02:36:26 -0600
From: "H.J.J. Hewitt" <hjjh@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] OS/Gina Torres - "Alias"

>>Has anyone seen the new show Alias?  I just happened it this evening, but
>>saw Gina Torres dressed a bit different, different hair, more modern
>>character.  Not sure who she plays, but looked interesting.

I checked TVGuide online, and Gina is not listed for "Alias" in the next 2
weeks, but she IS for eps of "Any Day Now".


TEXena
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 07:37:55 EST
From: Xwpacolyte@aol.com
Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] <<The Black Wolf and Beware Of Greeks &  X-Files (sort of

In a message dated Sat, 1 Dec 2001 21:27:39 -0500 "Lee Daley" 
<leed@daleyenterprises.cncdsl.com> wrote:

>>This does help date the transition from "tag-along" to "lover".   In
"Greeks" Xena seems to be in the "here's a reliable guy I can 'marry her
off' to".  In "Return [of Callisto]" there is more than a hint of jealousy.  
Here is the time bracket when "IT" happened. <<

I'd have to say that I saw jealousy as early as The Titans (S1Ep7).  It's not 
that I think X & G were lovers at that time.  I don't.  But Xena's feelings 
toward Gabrielle seem to have changed in that direction as early as Titans.  
We were recently discussing the possible time frame for the "transition" in X 
& G's relationship on another list I subscribe to and I came across the 
following post (quoted below with the author's permission) which describes 
precisely, and in a very amusing way, my own feelings about the scene where X 
thinks G has slept with the monk.

Mark Wisniewski <markwisski@mac.com> wrote:

<<Oh, and BTW, I saw "Titans" when it first aired, and at the time, I 
wasn't a fan of the show, or familiar with the show's fanbase, I wasn't 
online, and I had yet to meet anyone who identified themselves to me as 
a lesbian, but I *did* know what a "jealous snit" looked like, and it 
really struck me as odd that Xena would be having one when she thought 
Gabrielle had slept with priest-boy. It wasn't the maintext, it probably 
wasn't planned, but it's what I saw. Something about the way Xena said, 
"It's none of my business," like she really wished that it *was* her 
business.>>


XWPacolyte
Cupid and Psyche...  Antony and Cleopatra...  Xena and Gabrielle.
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Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 10:47:28 -0600
From: Lilli Sprintz <spri0037@tc.umn.edu>
Subject: [chakram-refugees] <<Black Wolf & Beware of Greeks>>

Spoilers <<Black Wolf & Beware of Greeks>>

>From: "Cheryl Ande" <cande@sunlink.net>
>
>For Renee it was The Greater Good - she goes from comic relief to hero in a few seconds.  Her farewell to Xena is heartbreaking and all done without dialog and then her explosion of angry grief is really stunning.
>

Yes, that episode still stands out as one of my favorites that season 
and for all time.  The combination of humor and seriousness was steadily 
honed those first two seasons.  I consider one of the funnier moments to 
be in Greater Good when Gabrielle is trying on Xena's outfit; and then 
later has to climb on that damn horse and then learn how to 
whistle...which the bird in the tree did better than she. Gabrielle's 
rage storm with her staff at the tree, when she thought Xena had died 
was the beginning, for me, of really seeing how good an actress she was, 
and of course, was just heartbreaking.

Lilli
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Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 12:26:52 -0600
From: Lilli Sprintz <spri0037@tc.umn.edu>
Subject: [chakram-refugees] last post Violence and X-Files (?)

Small Spoilers <<The Convert>> and <<The Price>>

Small Spoilers <<The Convert>> and <<The Price>>

Small Spoilers <<The Convert>> and <<The Price>>

IfaRe

I said I wasn't going to post anymore. Either I am masochistic, can't 
avoid a good fight, or am getting a chance to stay in a discussion where 
I am afraid of spilling my guts or anger about something yet 
appropriate. So here goes.

First, thanks for the laugh. Meredith, if you are reading these please 
be aware we are concerned about the amount of hair on your head, and 
that it stays there : )

IfaRe said,

>I personally wasn't angry about any of that [year of the crucifixtion].  I was nervous and intrigued, captivated.  If I had any objections to the crucifixions, it was because I felt it brought too much religious "stuff" into an already mixed bag.  
>
Yes, I was upset about that too.

>On the other hand, there are people who see symbols of that exact violence and anguish in churches and cathedrals on a regular basis.  Maybe all that is somehow one of RT's longstanding issyews, which plays out in his "art." (He certainly has a predilection for crosses.) 
>
That is exactly the point. Perhaps those repetitive images do something 
to affect the way we react to them, to situations, out in the world.

Speaking of repetition, By the end of season four I (!!) was a believer. 
I didn't and still don't believe in a heaven or a hell, but rather that 
we make these things and are distressed wholly by the idea that nothing 
better than this life comes along. But after seeing several years of 
these two women going through hell too many times, the crucifixtion just 
lost me. I was HAPPY that they were dead. I mean, I wanted to believe 
they WOULD have something else other than all this pain and, would 
become angels, yes, there was something else after all god bless you. I 
felt that. So I really know how people come to those beliefs.

Whether or not they are true, is not the issue. It is that I believed 
(or wished) finally that there was a heaven and that they were safer. I 
want that for my friends, my family, myself, some of my friends here on 
this list. Yet, when I did feel those feelings I was amazed, and 
realized and felt that I was being pulled along the whole time.

What do you (do I) believe when we watch a crucifixtion scene? What does 
it bring up? Was it something plastered into our minds at an early age 
along with belief systems? What comes up for me is alot of feelings 
about being blamed for someone's death. That that agony is something I, 
or a people I or someone else belongs to, caused it somehow. I was 
furious at being lead along somehow and do know for a fact that many 
people blame lots of other people for deaths, and a death, that was 
caused that way. A VERY EMOTIONAL issue. The log-jam in my mind about 
how this happens just blew that day, watching <<Ides of March>>, and 
that day I began a long process of discharging lots of rage about how 
all of us get pulled into this violence and hatred. Repetition.

So, I might be able to say that, yes, watching that crucifixtion scene 
in Xena helped me realize something. I didn't like what it was I realized.

I said,

>> In the middle of all of this, a dramatic change 
>> took place.  We were actually shown blood shed in a very graphic scene 
>> that was absolutely unncessary for the plot. 
>>
>IfaRe said,
>
>Again, I had little problem with this, precisely because it was Joxer.  He 
>who played at being a warrior found out the true horror.  I in turn felt more for him than I ever had before.  I felt his anguish.  
>
But, just to restate this one more time, was it necessary? Perhaps you 
did need to see something that graphic to feel it. But then again, are 
we ramming ourselves into this cycle of still continuing to numb out to 
that scene? The more numbing out that happens, the more "gruesome" the 
scene needed to break through that last level of numb.

My guess is that we are replaying something over and over again into our 
brains, and it does not help us (to quote Gabby) end the cycle of violence.

>What I liked about The Price was that it showed the price both women paid for trying to defend against violence.  
>
This is one place where I agree with you. There is a problem here, in 
that we as women, have not, in the same way as men historically, seen 
and experienced that kind of violence (in wars and battlefields) except 
as dirt on the road through violence such as rape and being killed on 
the side. When I saw the last Karate Kid that was filmed, it was the 
one, the first one, where that "Kid" was female. In watching it, as in 
watching Xena, I realized how I too have numbed out to violence as men 
have been treated, in that they are bodies to be shuffled around, 
numbing out to their pain, believing as we have been taught to believe 
that MEN don't feel pain (which is of course not true), them being 
treated like animals who themselves are told that they are automotons 
who are taught to kill. (Phew. Confusing?) Nothing. No memories, all 
courage, and we see men who are "cowards" and are brought to believe 
that that is bad. Then, there is seeing Xena, and the female Karate Kid. 
When she was getting hurt, it was not just "hurrah for the Karate Kid," 
but more that, she is getting hurt and I don't like this. This is not so 
fun. So, I am not immune to those feelings. When I have seen Xena over 
the years it has been as the hero I want to be and cannot believe I am, 
because I am ill, I hurt, lots of people like me, some don't because I 
am angry and pissy. Not very vulnerable until I decided to deal with how 
sick I was really was. That's when I opened up. Xena...she has been 
pissy, she has been angry, still hurts people but regrets it... and, is 
learning there are other ways. Peace, reacting differently in a battle, 
trying to not kill someone all the time, and pain she has gone through 
as a fighter and as a woman, which I see in that she has learned to fear 
people, is something I fear and feel deep in my bones. She hurts, has 
been hurt lots, and I feel and understand lots of what that looks like, 
and not wanting to hurt people at all. But do, and would do more if 
needed to survive. Oh my god, I fear I am going to look horrible to this 
group here telling you all of this. I simply don't want "Xena" or anyone 
else like her to experience those kinds of hurts anymore.

So, that one scene in X-Files that brought me to this discussion with 
you is about that stuff from my past that brings me to this issue like 
someone wanting to do battle to get back at someone else. It is NOT the 
reason to fight. It is NOT the reason for me to be in this discussion 
with you out of anger, but I sure don't want the kind of scenes that we 
saw in X-Files to be the way I or you or others see the world. We need 
different images. We need not be pulled around by puppet strings that 
pull on emotions from the ways we and the world have been terribly hurt. 
My prior byword in the past, like X-Files, was "trust no-one." Now, It 
is, "that's what friends are for, to stand by each other."

For all I have said about "that" bloody image and about X-Files, I hope 
that Lucy Lawless gets to be exactly the actress she dreams about, gets 
to do that powerful life. For all of us, I wish the same.


This boxing match has been brought to you by Xena, the letter X, the 
number 7 and Meredith.

LS
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 17:35:25 -0600
From: "Daniel T. Miller" <d.t.miller@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Bruce Campbell in "The Ice Rink"

Well, since limited copies of the video is seeing wide release,
I think this falls into the parameters of the mailing list.
Yes, please.

I'm curious how he got cast.
Was the director a Evil Dead fan? 
(There is even some sort of  line in the movie about how "Sylvester" 
is known for the sense of humor he brings to a role.) 

And let us start a run on the video rental.
I'm sure Blockbuster headquarters at the national figures, weekly, if not
daily.  

We can mess with their corporate minds.
Or at least we can get more than one copy per store.


On Sun, 2 Dec 2001 20:21:49 -1000 (HST) "Jackie M. Young"
<jyoung@lava.net> writes:
> Daniel wrote:
> 
> >I just saw a tape of the 1999 French comedy,
> > "The Ice Rink" (La Patinoire)
> >
> >This has already become one of my favorite comedy movies.
> 
> --Bruce came here to Honolulu at that time to promote the film at 
> the
> Hawai'i International Film Festival.  I gave  some free tkts. out at 
> our
> Xenafest at that time and some of us got to see him in person.
> 
> I can dig up my report at the time to the list (since Ven's archives 
> might
> not be accessible), if anyone wants, just let me know. ;)
> 
> --Jackie
>
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End of chakram-refugees-digest V1 #60
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