From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V1 #58 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Monday, December 3 2001 Volume 01 : Number 058 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] Bruce Campbell in "The Ice Rink" ["Daniel T. Miller" <] [chakram-refugees] Virus Warning "BadTransA" [Lilli Sprintz > (fwd) [KTL > [IfeRae@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] Xena Live 2: more details! :) [Sarah Anne Packard > (fwd) ["Lee Daley" > ["Cheryl Ande" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] < Subject: [chakram-refugees] Bruce Campbell in "The Ice Rink" I just saw a tape of the 1999 French comedy, "The Ice Rink" (La Patinoire) This has already become one of my favorite comedy movies. Laugh out loud goofy with some finesse. Right now, just what I need!! (How many ways can you walk, slip, fall and skate on ice? A lot.) It's an ensemble slapstick comedy about a French film crew shooting a heavy dramatic romance in time for the Venice Film festival. A French actor, Tom Novembre has the biggest role as the director. Bruce is "Sylvester," the American leading man. (Basically playing a version of himself.) He only speaks English in the movie. It is in mostly in French. Bruce has most of the English lines. There is also Lithuanian and Italian dialogue. Dolores Chaplin (Charlie's Granddaughter, Geraldine's daughter? Niece?) is the female romantic lead. (Not sure if she was suppose to be British or French.) But there is not a lot of dialogue. Some great physical comedy. Gee, I wondered why they hired Bruce for that? :~) Bruce did this silent bit with a hockey mask that actually caused me to do a spit take. Summing up-- Nice and short. Only 80 minutes. Doesn't pad. Sheer physical silliness. (I thought everything they did with the ice was very funny.) A lot of humor on how a small European movie is made. (Nice little bit at the end with the producer/director/editor having to get to a Rome studio.) Great use of Bruce Campbell. Wonderful use of Brahms. Lots of hockey (Have the Taperts seen this? :~) Great use of a David Bowie song. Extra points for using both Brahms and Bowie on the same soundtrack. Some heavy swearing. (But not in English.) Some problems with subtitles. Occasionally the white lettering was on the ice. Dolores Chaplin has a brief naked romping scene on top of Bruce. (He keeps his robe on.) The credits said this was filmed in 1997. I saw the one copy from my local Blockbuster. Below is the link to the movie's IMDB web page. http://us.imdb.com/Title?0120785 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 01:08:47 -0600 From: Lilli Sprintz Subject: [chakram-refugees] Virus Warning "BadTransA" Thank you all of you who posted about the above virus. I hadn't updated my software in several weeks. I haven't get gotten the virus, but after updating, I now feel safer. L ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 11:01:34 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] <> (fwd) Return of Callisto, The Debts, Miss Amphipolis Lee replied to my post > > I realize that I almost never > > watch stuff from season one or two, because I felt 3 through 6 were so > > much better. > > There I have to disagree. Now I was hooked (hook, wire leader, sinker, > swivel, and a meter of doubled line [RT homage]} Grin! by about the third episode, > so I might be a littled biased. But without season 1 and 2 there would > never have been a season 3 and following, hades, season 2 was a chancy > proposition. But there was something there, a novelty, a freshness, a > campiness that started my addiction. > Yeah, certainly that's true. I think also that if PacRen had introduced us to the Xena we saw in the Debt right from ep one, it would have been much harder for us to take to the grrl quite so much. Many of us and probably Gabrielle too, would have run screaming from the room. The evil Xena of the Debt was not a very sympathetic character. Without knowing about and caring for the "present day" Xena, that women would have been an almost impossible sell as the hero of the piece. I didn't leap right into Xena when I first saw it at the beginning of season two. I have just never been a fan of the T&A action adventure genre. I was doing my Russian homework very late every Sunday night/early Monday morning and there were literally only two stations on the air at that time. One showed infomercials and one showed Xena. Xena barely won... So I saw parts of a number of eps for a number of weeks and then one night I heard Salmoneous say that the winner of the beauty pageant would become "Miss Known World" and the wit of that just really caught my attention. So Miss Amphipolis was the first ep I actually watched all the way through. When I rewatched the earlier ones later that year after I got on line and had someone send me a tape, I kept noticing some scenes that I remembered seeing, but the stories of most of them were still new to me. So I got hooked by the comic aspect of XWP. It certainly was not a show that I took very seriously. Shortly after actually paying attention to the screen, I became really hooked on Lucy Lawles, her beauty and her skills and that was the end of any lack of interest in this show. Then I saw the rerun of Return of Callisto which I had missed totally on it's first airing. And it was like a punch to the heart. Heros save people they see in danger. They don't just go away and leave them to die. And by the gods they SURE don't stand there and WATCH them die. The look on Lucy's face as Xena watches Callisto sink was extraordinary to me. Some revenge and anger and a sour satisfaction, yeah, but mostly a very complex mix of "Yes I will do this and yes, I will pay for it someday." She knows she's doomed spiritually just as much as Callisto is physically. That's when the show became more than a frothy, pleasant, silly diversion to me. And that's when I first began to feel that XWP sometimes achieved true "art" on my little screen. And that feelign came to full fruition in season three and beyond. > > The acting was better (gods, some of Lucy's and Renee's > > readings, postures and gestures from the early eps were downright > > excruciating) > > I wouldn't go that far, after all it did survive to season three. Again the > "campiness" factor. Oh, but we had some high cringe moments on the way. In Cradle of Hope, Lucy's rendering of "What, are you holding him wrong or sumpin'?" is just awful. And Renee flung her arms around so much that sometimes I thought she was trying to convince us that Xena was actually Don Quixote and Gabrielle was not Pancho Sanchez but the windmill. They did okay, as you say, they certainly weren't so horrifically bad that their acting drove people away. But they both got so much better in season two as a result of constant practice, I think. And by season three, they were ready to handle pretty much whatever the writers and producers threw at them. I think the initial buzz was the female warrior and the continuing buzz was the strong female relationships being portrayed and honored along with the very high percentage of female characters. The heros, the villians, the priests, the warriors were all mostly female. I remember staring at the screen one night watching Hooves and Harlots and suddenly realizing with vast delight that for once we had a screenful of strong women who were the focus of the story and not just the little companion of some guy whom the story was really about. It was breathtaking to me. > > > and the later stories were far more sophisticated with deep > > delving into the nature of evil and it's effect upon our lives. > > It was more sophisticated and had matured, but there were fans who found > this objectionable and sworn off Xena forever. No growth is without it's ill > effects. Yes, but no growth at all is a death knell. Well, not in TV all the time...grin. I've seen discussions on this on other lists--the question being would you have continued to watch if the series had stayed the same, followed the formula of being charming, amusing, problem warlord of the week stories solved by Xena? Nobody seems to be sure about the answer. As I've said before, I THINK I would have continued to watch the show in order to watch Lucy work, being such the Xenaho I am. But I'm honestly not sure. Because season three was just so extraordinary in terms of the story arcs, the increased production values (which were always good, but I think the Debts was the first ep that reached almost movie screen quality) and the willingness of Tapert and Stewart to push the entire staff from actors to directors to writers to set designers to costumers, etc. etc. etc. Bitter Suite was a phenomenal offering, one that was just so out there that it truly was distinctive and original. In a VERY formulaic medium. I am amazed by Tapert's mind, grit and determination at times. (In a good way--grin.) And season three just had me on the edge of my seat waiting for the next week's eps. There was an intensity of feeling in me for the show that went far beyond what I'd felt in season two and certainly one. Besides I always wonder how many of the people who left after season three were Hercules fans who had drifted over to watch Xena also. Xena started out with very good ratings for a new syndicated show, and I suspect that a huge percentage of those numbers came from the Hercules fan base. A nice start for her. When Xena became so dark and deep, I imagine that some of those people wouldn't be so interested in it anymore. And don't forget that season three was the highest rated season ever, overall, as a number of articles noted in stories about the series winding down. The drop off in ratings occurred in season four, the "season of the sidekick" story arc. (Which I realized only later was a parallel story--Gabrielle's coming of age story set alongside Xena's "mid-life" crisis. Some of the season four eps are my absolute favorites.) Hades some of Shakespear's early stuff wasn't all that good, but Yeah, he needed practice too. ;-> > it made enough people go to the Globe so that her could mature and develop. > And I'm sure that there were Globe-goers who groused about "verily this new > play is too sophisticated for my taste". > Those damn King Lear girls! What B*TCHES! grin > > The later > > stuff also had the benefit of years of history of the series so that every > > new ep was enmeshed in all kinds of subtle references to previous > > eps, earlier decisions made by Xena and the resulting effects these had on > > her life. But I fell in love with XWP in season two, when we were all > > much more innocent and when just the sight of the best warrior in the > > world being a woman was enough to make us snap up and pay attention. > > That's what caught us. We would have been happy if it continued this way. I think many would have but again, not all possibly. It's something we'll never know. > The amazing thing is that TPTB took the risk to let the show, and the > actresses grow into something better. They had enough faith in themselves > and in US to "mess with success". Yes, that is an EXCELLENT point. Very good insight. Yeah, they pushed us, they tormented us, they made us ache and rage. Right up to the very end, obviously. Thanks for the interesting, thought-provoking reply. KT > > LeeD; Warrior Jester ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 17:07:30 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] < On Sun, 11 Nov 2001, Cheryl Ande wrote: > > > @ > > @ > > @ > > @ > > @ > > @ > > @ > > @ > > @@ > It's also the first time we see Xena as a teacher, even if a somewhat > crude one to Flora. How when Flora was little she couldn't climb into the > tree with the big kids and Xena would put her hand down and say, "Here" > and then when Flora reached for it, she'd pull it away. (Wonder if she > sceamed out, "Psyche!") And later Flora explains the lesson--that deep > down you have to trust in yourself to achieve things, not just take a hand > up. And so here she is today, leading the rebellion. > > Again, a woman as leader image. Another thing I lvoed so much about XWP > the important jobs and attention paid to women in this series.>> Yes, I originally thought Blac Wolf a little lackluster. But you're right, lots of good seeds in those first eps, that we wouldn't recognize as so important until much later. E.g., I didn't appreciate the teacher side of Xena so much back then, possibly taking it for granted. Most of the flashbacks we saw showed her as the student -- with M'Lila, Lao Ma, Cyane, Alti, even Caesar. With Gabrielle, I saw a mutual exchange in terms of learning, with Xena only reluctantly teaching Gabrielle fighting skills, which she initially began learning with the Amazons. > It is however interesting to > > see the difference between how Xena treats him in this episode and the > Return > > Of Callisto. When Xena is introduced to him in this episode (she obvious > > didn't remember from Sins Of The Past) > > > That's 'cause Xena realized he was a totally different guy. Shorter, > cuter, nicer. Gab of course was totally fooled by this new Perdy. She > knew he was different but she couldn't QUITE put her finger on it... > > > she seems very pleased that Gabrielle > > meets up her old beau. >> Actually, in Sins, Xena seems bemused by the fact that Gabrielle isn't satisfied with Perdy, whom Xena calls a nice enough guy. Remember, at that time, Xena still saw Gabrielle as an innocent -- if spunky -- peasant girl probably suited to the life she'd have with Perdy. And when they meet up again in Greeks, both Gabrielle and Perdy have matured. Now it's Xena who knows how much she'll miss Gabrielle, even though she wants Gabrielle to do what will make her happy. > > More later. > > > > > Good! Looking forward to them. > > KT Me too! - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 17:07:38 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] << Dreamworker & Cradle Of Hope>> In a message dated 12/1/2001 8:42:11 AM Central Standard Time, fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes: > So, Ife, although I stand in awe before most of your posts due to your > fine incisive analytical mind and the honest integrity of your often > factually objective feelings, I'm going to dig in my heels on this one > and say, NOPE! Don't buy Dreamworker as profoundly more foundational than > most of the other season one eps. And that's...okay. > Oh, I'm not saying Dreamworker is *more* important in that way than the others -- only that I can't leave it out when we're talking about foundational stuff (especially symbolic) that recurs throughout the series. I think I misunderstood you the first time around. > And then we get Bitter Suite, > > OAAA, > > > (Sound of klaxon.) SAPPY XENA ALERT! OAAA is still one I moan and roll > my eyes through due to Xena's indecisiveness and hand-wringing. SO not > Xena. But your comments on it foreshadowing FINS has redeemed it some. > The sweaty Xena taking on the Persian army redeemed it then for me, even > though I'm not particularly fond of fight scenes.>> Again, I loved seeing Xena as humanly indecisive -- especially because of the circumstances. This is when we see clearly how personal and practical a lot of Xena's motivation is to do good -- as contrasted with Gabrielle's larger idealism. Choosing the greater good over Gabrielle is Xena's biggest test -- which she consistently fails up until FIN. I'm not arguing for either position, simply saying that OAAA moved me precisely because of Xena's conflictedness -- wanting to honor Gabrielle's ideals, Xena's own pronouncements about the greater good (which apparently applied to her own but not Gab's sacrifices), and save Gabrielle too. I guess the Sap Quotient didn't bother me here because the angst seemed to real. > I was thinking of Forgiven just the other day, that marvelous moment when > Xena turns away from accepting forgiveness from an outside source, > refusing to accept that someone can just hand you atonement from an urn, > or as we Catholics were taught, blessed water. Again, strong foreshadowing > of FINS and how the series would end. It's just a lovely shot, her > turning her back and heading out into the blazing sunset.>> Yes. Coupled with the "re-creating yourself every moment" comment, it truly underscores that Xena could only achieve peace in self-responsibility and self-forgiveness. That's why the conclusion of FIN is as "logical" to me as one which assumes she should've been happy with all the ways others had considered her redeemed. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 20:46:22 -0500 (EST) From: Sarah Anne Packard Subject: [chakram-refugees] Xena Live 2: more details! :) Ooh, check it out, just saw this at ausxip.com! :) "Nothing stays a secret in this fandom for long The following is a statement from Di who is helping to organising the Xena Live 2 Stage Play "Well, as much as I wanted this to be a surprise, About Face Theater posted their schedule before the official website could be finished. Yes, it's true -- we're launching Xena Live 2! Amy Matheny and Elizabeth Laidlaw will be reprising their roles as Gabrielle and Xena respectively. The official XenaLive website isn't up yet, but I'll let Mary know when it becomes available. I've been honored to have been asked to work on staff with Amy so I'll be able to fill you all in on the details. As soon as the website launches, we'll have a Yahoo list up for all of you to join up and ask all the questions I'm sure you have whirring in your brains right now. Surprise! Well... kind of... :)-- DS Bauden" Woo-hoo! Amy and Elizabeth will be back!! :) Incidentally, I just noticed that Creation now has a few guests listed for the Chicago Xena/Trek con in January (19-20) - Claire Stansfield and Alex Tydings, woo-hoo!! Oh, I am so going.... :) -Sarah, aka the abbagirl- ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 20:54:37 EST From: KLOSSNER9@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] Anthony Quinn tape A video catalog lists -- Anthony Quinn -- the Final Words The blurb reads-- "The venerable actor shares his life and career experiences as Zeus, Kublai Khan and Barabbas in this fitting retrospective shot shortly before his death." Quinn of course was Zeus in the five Hercules TV films in 1994. He had short scenes with Lucy and Renee. The video, which is only 60 min. long, probably covers his whole career, dozens of films over about 60 years, many of them more important than his Hercules films. So the video probably has only a short mention of the Hercules films, but it may have some comments on them by Quinn. If anyone is interested - www.criticschoicevideo.com 800-367-7765 for $17.64 Boeotian ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 21:57:54 -0500 From: "Lee Daley" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] <> (fwd) And I'll reply back, with much snippage because I really do agree with most of what KTL wrote > > Yeah, certainly that's true. I think also that if PacRen had introduced > us to the Xena we saw in the Debt right from ep one, it would have been > much harder for us to take to the grrl quite so much. Actually it would never have gotten on the air. > > I didn't leap right into Xena when I first saw it at the beginning of > season two. I have just never been a fan of the T&A action adventure > genre. I was doing my Russian homework very late every Sunday > night/early Monday morning and there were literally only two stations on > the air at that time. One showed infomercials and one showed Xena. Xena > barely won... Lucy Lawless vs. Ron Popiel, I'm not sure if I sould laugh or cry. Certainly a possible "Celebrity Deathmatch" > > Oh, but we had some high cringe moments on the way. In Cradle of Hope, Otherwise known as the "Baby Toss" episode, with was the clip that every talk show used. > They did okay, as you say, they certainly weren't so horrifically bad that > their acting drove people away. But they both got so much better in season > two as a result of constant practice, I think. And by season three, they > were ready to handle pretty much whatever the writers and producers threw > at them. And the writers started giving them something to work with. > > I think the initial buzz was the female warrior and the continuing buzz > was the strong female relationships being portrayed and honored along with > the very high percentage of female characters. The heros, the villians, > the priests, the warriors were all mostly female. I remember staring > at the screen one night watching Hooves and Harlots and suddenly realizing > with vast delight that for once we had a screenful of strong women who > were the focus of the story and not just the little companion of some guy > whom the story was really about. It was breathtaking to me. And something we had NEVER seen before. It is now taken for granted, but it was groundbreaking at the time. > > > > > Yes, but no growth at all is a death knell. Well, not in TV all the > time...grin. Most of the time I would say. I've seen discussions on this on other lists--the question > being would you have continued to watch if the series had stayed the same, > followed the formula of being charming, amusing, problem warlord of the > week stories solved by Xena? Nobody seems to be sure about the answer. If TPTB went with with the "warlord of the week" I think the show would have died in season 3. > the increased production values (which were always good, but > I think the Debts was the first ep that reached almost movie screen > quality) and the willingness of Tapert and Stewart to push the entire > staff from actors to directors to writers to set designers to costumers, > etc. etc. etc. That has to be one factor, that TPTB produced a one hour MOVIE on a WEEKly basis. Talk about raising the bar. Bitter Suite was a phenomenal offering, one that was just > so out there that it truly was distinctive and original. And is now being copied > > Those damn King Lear girls! What B*TCHES! grin ROTFLMAO > > > > > The amazing thing is that TPTB took the risk to let the show, and the > > actresses grow into something better. They had enough faith in > themselves > > and in US to "mess with success". > > > Yes, that is an EXCELLENT point. Very good insight. Yeah, they pushed > us, they tormented us, they made us ache and rage. Right up to the > very end, obviously. Would you have expected anything less? That's one of the reasons I'm not in the "I Hate FIN" club. It may not have been the ending I wanted, but it was consistent with their behavior. > > Thanks for the interesting, thought-provoking reply. You're more than welcome LeeD> ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 23:00:58 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] <> @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Mortal Beloved is a pretty good follow up to The Path Not Taken and in some ways Death In Chains. Hades is perhaps the most hapless of gods - he couldn't free his sister now he's lost his helmet thus setting up the premises of Mortal Beloved. Quick recap Hades has his magic helmet stolen my Adiminius a psycho killer who turns things topsy turvey in the afterlife - the good are in Tarturus and the bad in Elysia. Marcus escapes and gets Xena to help put things right. What's good in this episode is : LL acting especially the last scene where she has to kill Marcus to get him into Elysia Xena is clearly shocked at what she has done; Gabrielle's pride at giving Adiminius a bloody noise, and Gabrielle's extraordinary sleeping abilities as she apparently snoozes through some carnal going ons between Xena and Marcus and Michael Hurst as the testy Charon. We are also introduced, I do believe, to out first decapitation. What's bad: I didn't care for the computer generated harpies which looked like a bad video game and was just a little too reminiscent of a bad Hercules episode. The Prodigal on the other hand is a wonderful Xena lite episode. Gabrielle is front in center in this episode and we see the Gabrielle's maturity and the confidence that traveling with Xena has given. Of course she doesn't know this at first. Freezing in battle Gabrielle goes home to sort things out and deals with a hurt sister, a marauding warlord and a tipsy warrior for hire, Maeleger the Mighty. Gabrielle patched things up with her sister, reforms the drunken warrior, saves her village, and rejoins Xena with a new sense of confidence. Wow Gabby gets a lot don in 45 minutes. There some great moments in this one. First off we see a very different relationship between Xena and Gabrielle that we saw in Athenian Academy. This time when Gabrielle decides to leave Xena is really hurt by the decision. Xena now sees Gabrielle as her family and I think she sees Gabrielle's need to talk to her family about her problems she is stunned that Gabby can't talk to her. Lucy does a nice job of putting just a hint of desperation in her voice when she asks Gabrielle if does plan to come back to her. Lucy also does a nice job at the reunion with Gabrielle - you can tell Xena wants to hug her friend but just can't quite do it but her joy is so very evident. The other highlight for me is Tim Tomerson's Meleager. He and Renne have a wonderful chemistry. I really liked their relationship - a kind of disreputable uncle and loving but exasperated niece. I loved the scene where Gabrielle is captured and Meleager convinces the warlord to allow him to take Gabby off to a tent for some hanky panky. I can only assume Gabby was quite asleep in Mortal Beloved because she certainly gives a nice x-rated imitation of a woman in throes of passion - good enough to distracted the blushing guards. I wish we could have more visits from Meleager he is one character I wish we would have seen more of. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 23:12:32 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] RE: Pasaden Tapes OK here's my point. Since we have no idea what the cost of the production of this tape was we can't say with any certainity that Creations is gouging the fans. You can say it's too expensive and can't afford it or that you wish some of the proceeds went to charity and tha's fine. All I know is that when I see A&E price a 45 min. program at 19.95 with additional shipping and handling that is eqivalent to Creations $37.95 for the Pasadena tape. I bought mine - I wanted to go to Psadena but couldn't and I'm happy to see Lucy and Renee on tape. Also .75 for vending machine can soda is outrageous you should unionized just for cheaper soda (that $18 a case!). I live in rural Pennsylvania maybe soda just cheaper here (milk however is cheaper than soda isn't that odd) ;-) . CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 23:50:01 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] < Then I saw the rerun of Return of Callisto which I had missed totally on > it's first airing. And it was like a punch to the heart. Heros save > people they see in danger. They don't just go away and leave them to die. > And by the gods they SURE don't stand there and WATCH them die. The look > on Lucy's face as Xena watches Callisto sink was extraordinary to me. Some > revenge and anger and a sour satisfaction, yeah, but mostly a very complex > mix of "Yes I will do this and yes, I will pay for it someday." She knows > she's doomed spiritually just as much as Callisto is physically. > > That's when the show became more than a frothy, pleasant, silly diversion > to me. And that's when I first began to feel that XWP sometimes achieved > true "art" on my little screen. And that feelign came to full fruition in > season three and beyond. > I was interested from the first ep, but it wasn't until ROC that I stopped taping over previous eps, figuring this was a show I'd want to review again. It was for exactly the same reasons you give -- the shock of watching Cally disappear and of that amazingly ambivalent look on Xena's face. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 23:54:55 EST From: Trek4u269@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Pasaden Tapes In a message dated 12/2/2001 8:03:44 PM Pacific Standard Time, cande@sunlink.net writes: > OK here's my point. Since we have no idea what the cost of the production > of > this tape was we can't say with any certainity that Creations is gouging > the > fans. > I work in the film industry . They are definetley overcharging...maybe gouging was too harsh a word. LOL. Creation hasbeen in business since 1971 so they know what they are doing. Hurray. It is a simple case of wanting a larger profit from a projected smaller interest group for the video. They are less than 30 minutes away so I will actually go to their office and voice a complaint (in a nice manner). If you had a retail store and ordered you would get a wholesale deal. This is not the case of a fan club run by an idividual...it is a business out to make money. I am not putting them down for wanting to make a buck but it is still an outrageous price considering Creation hosted and ran the convention (that cuts cost of tape). Many things are overpriced and even at sporting events or theatres you are getting gouged by paying 10.00 for parking (someone's yard- no overhead), and 8.00 hotdogs, and 5.00 for a small soda. Doesnt mean you cannot complain. BTW...I love creation for picking up xena as one of their fandoms. Convention tapes are sold all the time..covering everything from Buffy the vampire slayer to dr. who and star trek to general fandom. This isnt the only fandom creation does. They are a major company that does fan merchandise and conventions for many shows : Creation Entertainment was founded in 1971 to offer conventions, merchandise and clubs for fans of selected television series and films. We're best known for our famous STAR TREK , HERCULES , XENA , FARSCAPE and FANGORIA WEEKEND OF HORRORS conventions, and you'll find a complete calendar of events on our site. We also run the Official HERCULES & XENA, FARSCAPE and BEAR IN THE BIG BLUE HOUSE FAN CLUBS , and offer fantastic merchandise on-line for those properties as well as several other favorites! Enjoy your visit and come back often! Creation Entertainment manufacturers high-quality merchandise based on Hollywood's hottest properties. These goods are available on a wholesale basis to retailers and are found in thousands of fine stores nationwide ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 00:02:53 EST From: Trek4u269@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] OT: tracker Tonight on UPN at 9 pm pst they are showing episode 1 again. Special guest is Chyna. i will tape it in case someone misses it. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V1 #58 *************************************