From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V1 #51 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Saturday, November 24 2001 Volume 01 : Number 051 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] LL on X-Files: violence/ <> [Lill] Re: [chakram-refugees] LL on X-Files: violence/ <> [IfeRa] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 02:08:46 -0600 From: Lilli Sprintz Subject: [chakram-refugees] LL on X-Files: violence/ <> Spoilers, <> and a few other snips Spoilers, <> and a few other snips Spoilers, <> and a few other snips Ife, This post is to respond to a wonderful post you sent. It regarded a rather emotional post from me about my distaste with the violence of the second part of the X-Files episodes with Lucy Lawless. Please forgive me if I am not exact in my summary of your post that I am about to refer to. Several days ago, you said that Lucy Lawless had expressed interest in being on X-Files as a gift of love. You also said that she was looking forward to playing a role like that where she could explore portraying some of the nuances of emotions, as she was able in these episodes these last couple weeks. You also said that, "[LL's character] Shannon,reinforced the notion of the horror of genetically programmed soldiers, as well as the humanity inside those bio-robots, which still carried a sense of that horror." I agree. I appreciated your information about Lawless, and that you gave some specifics from what you knew about her, which I, admittedly, did not know. However, I could have been convinced about bio-robots, and already was, without seeing someone's hand bloodily poking through Shannon's body. The issue I am talking about is violence. Without any person displeasure toward Lucy Lawless, the issue for me, and has been for many years, is how numbed out we get about violence. I, as someone with a childhood history that included lots of violence, and also exposure to issues of violence with the Holocaust, learned very early to numb out to scenes of violence. It took me many years...and I am still doing it...to recover. For what it's worth. Every time I see a scene such as the one at the end of Part II of the X-Files we were watching, I keep thinking to myself, "is this ever going to end." Watching Xena for many years, and the violence which that show indeed did often show, I have questioned myself about my own stand about violence: what I am willing to do to protect myself or others; what do I put out that may, in essence be violence, without outward physical damage; what am I willing to do for others to protect them, in particular, the ones I love. Does it even make sense to be watching this show when I, in most other situations, will not watch graphically portrayed acts of violence. Frustrating over the years for my friends. I've had to nitch many movies. The lovely thing ABOUT Xena is that perpetrating violence did not, even, stop them in the show from questioning it. Even this last season, when we knew, after a while, that Xena was going to get killed, and Gabrielle was going to be the warrior to whom the flame was passed, I remember scenes as recently as <> where Gabrielle was still questioning what committing violence was doing to her: she sort of "lost it" by the end of that last battle, so that Xena had to tell her to stop, to not kill one more person after the battle was over. Gabrielle said something like, that everytime she killed someone else, it made her loose a piece of herself. The episode <>, which came earlier in the season, brought up something similar: It was getting easier for Gabrielle to make a decision to kill. In that case, she killed an innocent person by mistake. It was getting too easy. If I may backtrack even further, back to <> in Season 5, Gabrielle tells Eli how XENA thought Gabrielle was getting numbed out to the killing. Some of us may never be pacifists. In fact, I know that watching Xena, while being careful about issues of violence, has made me more confident about my power as a woman in the world. On the other hand, I may (and I hope this is true) never be in a situation where I need to physically defend myself or another, to the point of protecting my or another's life, and taking someone else's life instead. I don't want to do that. Yet I would, if necessary. Eloquence, especially in writing, is not one of my strengths. I wish I could say something that would so clearly explain that this issue is not about Lucy Lawless, Xena, X-Files, or anything else. It is about exposing ourselves and others to scenes of violence, unnecissarily, over and over again, till we get so scared we lose the ability to see, to perceive, what really is going on. The numbing. You know, one of my favorite authors is Mercedes Lackey, whom some of you might know from the science fiction/fantasy genre she writes in, about women who are powerful. Two of the women whom she wrote a few books about were Tarma and Kethry, a Warrior/Mage team similar in some ways to Xena and Gabrielle. There were scenes in these stories which were graphic enough to take out any romantic notion about violence (no, I am not suggesting this of you...possibly me, actually). Anyway, in another book about women warriors, she makes a comment to the effect that, in order to kill another human being, one has to "go crazy" for the time that one does it. Think of all the looks we have seen on Xena's face over the years: not always what someone would call sane. The cost of doing that work. Do we have a choice about this? Yes, I believe we do. Don't be passive watchers of media. Make decisions, when possible, to not expose ourselves or others to excessive violence. I am still trying to tape over the two X-files episodes I taped. Haven't gotten there yet, but a friend of mine is helping me make the decision. For me, sort of like giving up something that in its own wierd way is like an addiction. Lilli ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:14:43 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] LL on X-Files: violence/ <> In a message dated 11/23/2001 2:12:54 AM Central Standard Time, spri0037@tc.umn.edu writes: > Some of us may never be pacifists. In fact, I know that watching Xena, > while being careful about issues of violence, has made me more confident > about my power as a woman in the world. On the other hand, I may (and I > hope this is true) never be in a situation where I need to physically > defend myself or another, to the point of protecting my or another's > life, and taking someone else's life instead. I don't want to do that. > Yet I would, if necessary. > > Eloquence, especially in writing, is not one of my strengths. I wish I > could say something that would so clearly explain that this issue is not > about Lucy Lawless, Xena, X-Files, or anything else. It is about > exposing ourselves and others to scenes of violence, unnecissarily, over > and over again, till we get so scared we lose the ability to see, to > perceive, what really is going on. The numbing. > First, there is one statement I must take extreme exception to -- that you are not eloquent. You are among a handful of others I've read who obviously love the complicated wonders of XWP, yet feel compelled to caution us about the subtle (and not so subtle) dangers within the violence it and and other popular shows present. The irony is that there are probably a lot of us who are turned off totally by most of the violence-for-violence-sake fare on TV and in the movies, who watch only such programs which (in our eyes) have some redeeming quality -- e.g., a unique slant, an actor we like, a provocative message about violence. I absolutely agree with your concerns about the prevalent focus on violence in both creative shows and newscasts. It's troubling that violence is often portrayed as not only "necessary," but as the "right" or "only" solution to a whole range of issues. The topic is one I have trouble discussing in a general sense, precisely because it is so complex. As you say above, what we believe in abstractly may be quite different from what we might do in actuality, when we believe ourselves or someone we love to be in danger. If I keep coming back to specifics (in this case XWP, Lucy or the recent X-Files eps), it's because I simply don't feel equipped to deal with this subject in a meaningful way beyond that. What I love about show-specific lists like this is that we all have the same context for exploring complicated subjects. True, each of us sees something different. Each of us brings unique experiences to what we see. But when you refer to Gabrielle's gradual iniation to violence, her experiences with it, her responses, I feel adequate to discuss that ad nauseum. If you ask me when or if the violence in XWP was a "necessary" or "right" aspect of the show, I feel confident in giving my views on that. I can also listen to your views, possibly responding with more than "Okay, we're each entitled to our own opinion," because I can ask you to give me specific references about what led you to your conclusions. But once we go too far off into the world at large, there are simply too many variables for me to handle. I feel confined to "Lilli, I feel your pain." Sufficient, perhaps, though not much of a "discussion." Like you, I grew up exposed to violence. I hated it and would never intentionally provoke it, but I learned early on that I am not "wired" to "turn the other cheek" if confronted with it. I would defend to the death those who are, because they are the only hope for finding alternative responses. For me, it's not "either/or" but "both/and." I abhor violence in humans in a general sense. I am constantly seeking ways to avoid it in myself and among others. But I know from experience that I would not hesitate to use it defensively -- understanding that labeling it "right" doesn't make it "better." It's still violence and may likely result in even more violence -- the "cycle" Gabrielle often spoke about. So, if I keep harping on specifics, it's certainly not because you haven't eloquently stated your concerns about violence in general. It's because I'm taking what you say to examine my own response to violence in a particular setting that I can grasp. What I appreciated about XWP in that context was its examination of the consequences of violence, the ambiguities and uncertainties about when it was "right" or "necessary." Gabrielle's conflictedness about that only made her more human to me in terms of portraying the difficulties of maintaining absolute stances when someone you care about is involved. Xena's conflictedness about that made her more human to me in terms of needing her violence to serve a higher purpose, and looking for other alternatives whenever possible. As fantasy, I wanted Xena to live forever, despite the violence in her "way." I wanted her to overcome death however she could, as reward for her good heart and heroism. I wanted to forgive all the lives she had taken as Evil Xena, and justify those she took as Good Xena. But that wouldn't have reflected the reality that she who lives by the sword often dies by the sword - -- leaving a trail of innocent victims behind, no matter how well intentioned her motives or what good comes out of it. XWP walked a fine line between love and violence, with sometimes mixed results. To me the finale unflinchingly dealt with both. It celebrated the triumph of love, without ignoring the consequences of violence. Xena paid the ultimate price for a violent life, which she was always willing to do. Gabrielle paid the price for inspiring and loving such a person. Seeing them walk off into the sunset together would've emphasized the rewards, but how often are we shown so poignantly the pain? I recently saw the director's cut of FIN, where the last we see of X&G is them together on the boat. It wasn't quite as gut-wrenching as watching Gabrielle sail off alone. In my heart, I would've preferred the former. Maybe I wouldn't feel as sad as I still do when I see or remember the last scene of the version that aired. But another part of me respected that I was reminded that heroism never occurs in happy circumstances. That even heroes who use violence are vulnerable to its consequences, as are those who love them. That the qualities I loved in Xena were a double-edged sword with blood on both sides. I can't say I'm proud of all the blood I saw on XWP. But I am proud that, in the end, they didn't pretend it could be washed away, that everything would be okay -- "clean" -- because it was spilled from or by our hero. Again, this doesn't address your concerns about violence in general. I guess it's my way of suggesting why I accepted so much of it in XWP. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V1 #51 *************************************