From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V1 #44 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Saturday, November 17 2001 Volume 01 : Number 044 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] LL on the Thurs. LATE, LATE NIGHT SHOW [Lilli Sprintz ] [chakram-refugees] OS--Mindy Clarke on CIS ;) ["Jackie M. Young" > ["Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] LL on the Thurs. LATE, LATE NIGHT SHOW URGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! I don't believe I missed it!!! Again. I'm really bad catching talk shows. I'm looking at my TV thinking, "Voyager" is on soon, was researching Whoosh, and at 12.02 went to change stations when I PASS channel 4, and who should I see but LL. Last few minutes. URGGGHHHHHH Could someone PLEASE send me a tape, I'll send it back to you I promise. Just to see this woman. L ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 20:49:27 -1000 (HST) From: "Jackie M. Young" Subject: [chakram-refugees] OS--Mindy Clarke on CIS ;) I don't always get a chance to watch a really good crime show, CSI on CBS, but tonight I was able to catch it, and lo and behold, who do I see but old XWP alum Mindy Clarke (Velasca) playing a high-class madame of an S&M-type brothel. ;) *Very* similar to her Velasca character, don't you think? ;P *hehe!* I'm glad she got a gig after her Soldier of Fortune series folded. ;) Just FYI, - --Jackie ****************************************************** * Proud to have the same birthday as Lucy Lawless! * * * * "I think New Zealand geographically comes from * * ... Hawai'i." --Lucy Lawless, Late Show, 4/9/96 * * * * "Feel the fear and do it anyway." --Lucy Lawless, * * Evening Post, 7/4/98 * * * * JACKIE YOUNG, JYOUNG@LAVA.NET * * * ****************************************************** ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 18:23:53 -0500 From: Thelonius Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: [NewXenaland] Irritating.... blonde? On Fri, 16 Nov 2001 11:04:19 +1300 NZJester wrote: > At 11:07 PM 15/11/2001 -0500, T wrote: > >Spoilers for > > > >s > >s > >s > >s > >s > >s > >s > >s > >s > >s > >s > >s > >s > >s > >s > >s > >s > >s > >s > > > > > >Since we're discussing early eps.... (well, we were) and > >I'm watching The Reckoning right now... > > > >I can't help noticing that Gabby's hair isn't really blonde at > >all in this ep... at least not straw-blonde. It looks almost > >red-brown. (I dunno what the correct name for that tint is). > > > >And Ares has short hair.... he must have grown his trademark long > >hair soon after this. > > > >It's a bit strange coming back to Season 1 after all this time. > > > >T > > I remember in the early season of Xena when I first joined the Chakram list > There used to be a lot of talk about the magical properties of Gabbies hair > well that and the now infamous shrinking BGSB that we will get to see shrink > all over again in the coming eps > Renee is naturally a Strawberry blonde I think going by her early hair colour > depending on the lighting it can appear blonde or red > A Strawberry Blonde is a natural mix of Blonde & red hair > She must have bleached out the red from her hair > I liked the Strawberry Blonde look > Yes, it's kinda interesting. I'd heard the term but never really knew what it meant since I've never seen a blonde strawberry ;) T ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 18:38:36 -0500 From: Thelonius Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] \Doubly/ ancient history On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 17:48:20 -0600 "H.J.J. Hewitt" wrote: (snips) > What prompted this belated response, however, was the reference to female > gladiators. The latest issue (Dec.) of DISCOVER magazine (sort of a > watered down NATURAL HISTORY) has an archeological article titled > "Gladiatrix", with this summary-- > "Sports fans throughout the Roman Empire delighted in watching women fight > to the death in the ring. A grave recently unearthed in London adds to the > mystique of the swordswomen." > > > TEXena > Ahhh... sooo nice to see the Romans weren't sexist about it. ;-) T ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 19:20:58 -0500 From: Thelonius Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] That old controvery over "The Way" On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:08:17 -0600 "H.J.J. Hewitt" wrote: > With \this/ list being populated by a self-culled Xenaic upper-crust, maybe > I can finally voice a highly unpopular view without much of anybody going > ballistic-- specifically, that I empathized with those Hindus who were > upset with "The Way". > > X:WP started out comfortably in the realm of the ancient gods and heroes, a > rich and safe heritage to tweak and play around with. Early in the initial > season when it first brought in elements from the Judaic tradition (Moses > in the bulrushes in ep #4) I was a bit uneasy, but felt it was fairly > innocuous, especially as the plot ploy was not unique to Hebrew legends > (Gilgamesh or somebody had had it earlier). Things were quiet for a while, > then with the 17th and 19th eps, "Royal Couple of Thieves" and "Altared > States" the use of the Biblical material became more direct. But since the > producers were Jewish I figured they had a right to utilize elements of > their own tradition if they wanted to. (However, it irritated me when in > #2.3 "Giant Killer" they \pointlessly/ played fast and loose with the name > of David's wife-to-be, which should have been Michal [I Sam.18.28: And Saul > saw and knew that the LORD was with David, and that Michal Saul's daughter > loved him].) > > Still, tho playing fast and loose they were 'playing in their own back > yard', so I accepted it. However, other religious traditions' > possibilities became too tempting not to be mined. Christianity was first > obviously drawn from-- oh so delicately-- in #2.9 "A Solstice Carol" > (Timothy, tho, was so darned cute it was worth it.) > > (I think it was about this time that they also tiptoed a bit less > delicately in the H:TLJ Christmas ep, "A Star to Guide Them"-- whose "old > order changeth" ending was masterly.) > > "Solstice Carol", however, was NOT the first to draw on Christianity. In > #2.6 "Warrior... Priestess... Tramp", a practice of the church I was raised > in and am still fond of was used as the basis of . . . a \dirty joke/! I > resented it then and I still do. > > So-- whether or not they were representative or just a small, vocal > sectarian group-- when the Hindus protested about something sacred to them > being treated with what they felt to be disrespect, I understood only TOO > well how they felt. > > > TEXena Since you raised it.... and hopefully we can discuss it in a flame-free environment - I (as an atheist) wasn't all that happy with the religious references either. I never minded the refs to the Greek gods, though, since that was (a) utterly in context and (b) not a current religion anyway so all the overtones associated with current religions don't apply. In fact the Greek gods on Herc and Xena were *fun*. The baby in the basket in Cradle of Hope was such a minor reference - and to virtually a traditional story rather than a religious one, I think - that it never bothered me at all. Royal Couple of Thieves was such a fun ep I could overlook the religious ref (which was more Jewish than Christian IMO, but anyway Spielberg already did the Lost Ark thing in Raiders of the Lost Ark - just btw, I thought Renpics version of the weapon was far more elegant and impressive than Spielberg's). I didn't like Giant Killer at all, though.... that was entirely a religious story and what's more, Xena didn't even do the dirty work herself, just set a friend up so somebody else's religious hero could off him.... not to my liking at all. But the protests over The Way were, so far as I can tell, mostly orchestrated by a bunch of cultists (the Hare Krishnas) who just wanted a pretext to show their power and no more representative of Hinduism as a whole than the Taliban are of Muslims.... IMO they *chose* to be offended, and what they were offended about was not any disrespect shown to Krishna, (and in fact the ep was almost grovellingly respectful of the blue deity - - Xena *praying* to a god? - urrgh!) but the fact that Renpics hadn't listened to *them*. Their stance was basically that no-one was allowed to portray or refer to Krishna without their permission. In other words it wasn't a matter of faith it was a matter of ego and self-importance. At the time I read a number of different letters on Hindu sites pointing out that in Hinduism there is (if I understand it correctly) no official hierarchy who says what is official doctrine, and therefore nobody is entitled to dictate what anyone can or can't say about Hindu deities. (Least of all, I might add and this is my personal opinion only, a bunch of cultists in Poland, Russia and New Zealand, which is reputedly where most of the emails and faxes that bombarded Studios USA originated from.) I do *not* think any producer should be required to censor their work in case some cult or pressure group or other decides to be offended for political reasons. Very much IMO, of course. T ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 20:56:02 +1300 From: NZJester Subject: [chakram-refugees] New Xenaland Webpage Update I have finally updated My part of the NewXenland web page with a new News article Thelonius has been doing a wonderful job updating the visitor guide I felt a bit guilty not updating my part Since I have been home sick today I finally put on a article that I meant to put on-line a couple of weeks back Its a picture of Lucy signing Monopoly Games it doesn't mention them, but I'm sure these were the ones for Sword & Staff Catch ya later Jester New Xenaland http://www.angelfire.com/tv2/newxenaland/ ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 09:27:15 -0500 (EST) From: Lynn W Ribaud Subject: [chakram-refugees] Tapes, One More Time I'm only in hip-deep, so here goes... I *do* have the X-Files first ep and the Late Late interview. Both were recorded directly to hard-disk, so the quality is excellent. I will try to get the ET, but there is a catch. I will be away from next Monday night to Tuesday of the following week. (BTW, from the interview with LL last night, I think we can guess what Sharon's message means...) Anyway, yes, I am willing to make tapes. These will all be T-120 tapes sent Priority. So far the postal charges have been uniform at $3.50 for one and $3.95 for two. These tapes are about $1.20 or so each. I intend that, with the exception of a request I have already received, I will make the X-Files tapes with both eps, barring my own failure to get the second one recorded. Two minor administrative matters: I may have forgotten to send some people my own address, so here it is: Lynn Ribaud 44 Evergreen Rd. Rocky Point, NY 11778-8848 And I've had a couple of queries about what forms of payment suit me. Personal checks are fine, so are money orders. I don't know what else anyone might care to use, but check with me first. Lynn Lynn Ribaud, Local Contact X3A Beamline, National Synchrotron Light Source, Brookhaven National Lab ribaud@acsu.buffalo.edu ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 19:34:51 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] <> @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ TEXena wrote: "But since the producers were Jewish I figured they had a right to utilize elements of their own tradition if they wanted to........" snip . " In #2.6 "Warrior... Priestess... Tramp", a practice of the church I was raised in and am still fond of was used as the basis of . . . a \dirty joke/! Iresented it then and I still do." So let me get this straight it was all right to use or base an episode on a religion tradition as long as you belong to that religion. Hence it was all right to use the Hebrew bible because the producers are Jewish but not all right to do a little send up of the confessional in Warrior ... Priestess... tramp. Rob Tapert and Lucy Lawless are both Catholic so by your own argument they were in fact using their own tradition in this episode therefore it was perfectly acceptable for them to do this. As for the Hindus I assume if one of the production personnel was a Hindu and specifically an Indian Hindu The Way would have been an acceptable episode. It would appear that you are proposing the idea that writers or other artist should never explore themes outside of their own religions or culture. A European Christian should never explore the Hindu mythology in art and conversely an Hindu or Moslem should never use Christian themes in their art. I agree if all kept to this rule there would be very little controversy and no one would be insulted. On the other hand we would never understand another person's culture or learn to appreciate it. We would only reinforce our culture biases and never know the truths that other religions or cultures could teach us. It is exactly what the "fundamentalists" of all religions want. Whether Christian, Hindu,Muslim, or Jewish the "fundamentalist" does not want their people to study other cultures or religions because they fear that their flock will discover that every religion has truth in it and every culture has good and evil in it. Any attempt for an outsider to try to examine their culture is seen as threat, any portrayal is an insult. For a fundamentalist God belongs to them alone and anyone who challenges that is an enemy. The Way seems to have been the focal point of the that kind of fundamentalist rational. There was much talk of Westerner's "stealing" Hindu culture for their own use. They could not see that there was admiration for that culture in this episode. Krishna is a kindly guide and protector but he protects a "foreigner". For the fundamentalist that was an attack on their specialness. How could their God care for some one not of their culture? That is what incensed them. It was a demonstration of prejudice - a belief that someone is not worthy of God's love because of their race, religion, nationality, or sexual orientation. That's why the executives who pulled the episode were wrong - they gave into prejudice. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V1 #44 *************************************