From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V1 #25 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Monday, October 29 2001 Volume 01 : Number 025 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] tapes [Thelonius ] [chakram-refugees] Re: [XenaGuard] <> Bits and pieces [Theloni] Re: [chakram-refugees] CJ Cherryh on Romans [Thelonius ] Re: [chakram-refugees] tapes ["H.J.J. Hewitt" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] << Dreamworker & Cradle Of Hope Maternal Instinct>> [KTL > [KTL > [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] tapes ["Josh Harrison" ] [chakram-refugees] <> [Mirrordrum ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> <> [KTL ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 18:18:47 -0500 From: Thelonius Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] tapes On Sun, 28 Oct 2001 14:48:04 -0500 Mirrordrum wrote: > At 01:31 AM 10/28/2001 -0400, Lee Daley wrote: > > >So it seems we need a roll call. With three categories. > >1. I can get an original, and I'm willing to share. > >2. I can't get an original, but I'll make copies. > >3. I can't do squat, but I'd really like a copy. (Very few people have > >actually committed to this category) > > >If everyone who cares would chime in with an E-mail for one of the three > >categories, we might be able to come up with a plan. > > > >Could we have a roll-call here. > > bone when i did that. got to tighten that loop. wish i were xena. i bet > *she* never had to answer roll call.> > > 'kay. *i'm* making an original tape. oxygen says they'll be airing the > post-series interview w/ lucy after the eps air so i'll just let it roll. > it's a pretty lame interview, but it's lucy. my tape will be sent to > lynn ribaud (unless lynn tells me otherwise), who would appear to be the > most likely person to be able to get it STAT and has good equipment. > > now folks, what you'll get is going to be a tape *with commercials* as i > don't want to run the risk of cutting any part of this. and anyway, > sometimes they do cool xena stuff during the commercial breaks. there's > nothing i can do about the crawly nattering at the bottom whatever that's > called. You stick a bit of masking tape across the bottom of your TV screen *before* they screen the ep, that way it will come out nicely blank on the tape. 8) T ... always helpful ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 18:49:03 -0500 From: Thelonius Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: [XenaGuard] <> Bits and pieces On Sun, 28 Oct 2001 20:37:51 -0500 Mirrordrum wrote: > mild spoilers for > / > / > / > / > / > / > / > / > / > / > / > / > / > / > / > / > just picking up oddments here and there. i was watching the first part of > today and noticed a number of things that had never struck me > before. if others have mentioned them, please excuse. > > i really love the opening tavern scene with the food dialogue. now that's > my kind of subtext. it's so xena--it shows a consistent part of her. as > much as she's changed, she'd still want the lion's share when it came to > food. and it also subtly shows the change in gabrielle who now says > forcefully "you're not getting my food" as well as the old gabrielle "i'm > relishing it!" and then when xena comes back, trying to "fix it" by > offering xena her food. now if that doesn't look and sound just like a > long-term xena relationship, i'll eat my sais. > > of course, why xena thinks the portions are small when there's a huge mound > of what look like tostadas with ground beef on a platter in the middle of > the table is not clear. > Xena's just a pig when it comes to food ;-) She talks with her mouth full, too. > in re: gab's journey after xena they do some really nice fades (is that the > correct term?). there are a whole series of them that i'd just not ever > studied closely before that make a marvelous transition and really give me > the sense of time *and* distance covered. got me to thinking about how > passages are conveyed (aside, of course, from writing "35 years later" > across the bottom of the screen). > > in that segment, gabrielle is reading xena's SWAK note--close up on gab > which fades into her riding across the screen toward the fading closeup of > her own face. this fades to a huge moon which fades to several shots of her > writing in her scroll (all with voice over). then shot of her writing fades > to a large sun. gab rides out of the fading shot of the sun to center > screen (long shot where she meets two people) and this fades to a sunset w/ > the sun on our screen left. another series of shots of gab writing and > sitting wrapped up, fade to a moon shot back to gab wrapped up and then > there's a splendid sunrise shot with the sun rising just to screen right. > as this shot fades, gab is faded in riding out of the place where the sun > was. it's really beautifully done! Yes, now you mention it, it was very nicely done... really added to the atmosphere of that episode. > and a technical question: is this the work of the editor? producer? > cinematographer? director? everybody? i recognize at least some of the > recycled file footage for the suns and moons but who does the putting > together of the final piece? > > another thing i hadn't noticed and don't remember reading about is that > brunnhilde is skulking around right where gab ties up her horse in the > village--or, well, in the next shot. another person with gabdar? why does > she start following her so soon and keep lurking about? Umm, yep, I noticed that too... what did she want? Was she just curious as to who Gabs was, or did she suspect somehow that Gabs might have something to do with Xena, or (more likely I guess) was it a precursor of Brunnhilde's (rather improbable) instant love affair with Gabby? > then she pops up > when the man with the tapestry has a sudden el choko of the brain and can't > remember that valkyrie's name. happens to me all the time--oh, you know, > that warrior princess, the one with black hair and blue eyes. . .strange > name. . .slips my mind at the moment. oh well. uh-huh. > > and one last bit about that i never managed to make when it > aired. xena's comment to odin "you can't escape the struggle. . .ya got to > embrace it" (a recurring theme of hers) is an interesting twist on both > taoist and buddhist spiritualities: resonant approaches directed toward > completely contrary ends. > > md > What intrigues me is, since Brunnhilde was a Valkyrie, howcome she wasn't in uniform? Was she on weekend leave? Or on some undercover intelligence mission for Odin? That was never really explained. (Not that it matters! I don't think TPTB are obliged to account in tedious and minute detail for every chance circumstance that happens in the episodes... sometimes, things just happen to happen that way because they do.) T ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 19:02:54 -0500 From: Thelonius Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] CJ Cherryh on Romans On Sun, 28 Oct 2001 08:13:25 EST Richan@aol.com wrote: > Thelonius writes: > > << But I can't help thinking that if the Roman Empire was around now, we > (or at least those outside it) would probably regard it as a military > dictatorship and the greatest evil in the world.... >> > > The other day I was chewed out by a friend at work for using the Tom Clancy > novel, EXECUTIVE ORDERS, to explain how political motivation works in > middle eastern nations today. So today I'm going to get chewed out for using > an alternate reality commercial to suggest whether Roman culture was a great > evil or not. CHOMP!! > The commercial takes place in the United States. City skylines alert us to > that > fact. There is a parade going on. Citizens are cheering. Confetti is falling. > Then we see who is being cheered -- a Roman-like leader in ceremonial armor. > It is a politician traveling by motorcade surrounded by a secret service-like > organization. The commercial brings modern day sensibilities to an ancient > culture thereby making it accessible to current day viewers. A bit like Xena > one might even say. > > And sometimes that is all that one can hope for. To catch a glimpse of someone > else's culture is difficult especially if it is geographically or > historically remote. > Both examples though impress on one that white is white, black is black, > and that gray is often the predominate color chosen by politicians. > > Richan [mmmmmggghhh. Thelonius tries to decide just what it is he just got a mouthful of... not entirely sure whether it's chewy or not.] I'm not sure quite where you're heading on this one.....? T ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 02:16:18 -0600 From: "H.J.J. Hewitt" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] tapes >Keeping score: it looks like we've got two sources for originals (KTL and >md), and two tapers: Lynn and LeeD. It turns out that if there are any other tape-copiers who want to get into the act, I can provide an original. TEXena who didn't watch the original and isn't gonna watch this, either, but gets Oxygen and is no doggie in the manger ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 02:12:40 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] << Dreamworker & Cradle Of Hope Maternal Instinct>> Added Maternal Instinct big plot point > > On a lighter note it is the last time we hear of six toed Gabrielle. I wish > that little fact would popped up more. What if Gabrielle could have > predicted the weather because her missing toe was prone to phantom pain? > When they went looking for her niece in Gurkhan, Gabrielle could have > been counting harem girl toes. Ahh a missed opportunity that even > fan fiction has missed! BWAHAHAHAHH! VERY good idea! I would have enjoyed watching that little scene. > > Cradle of Hope > this is obviously where Gabrielle gets the idea of sending Hope down the river > in a basket. I always believed that Gabrielle remembered her encounter with > that baby when it came time to hide Hope. Also it was quite poignant when > Xena says they have to find the baby's mother and Gabby answers that obviously > the mother doesn't want the baby. As she will fin out latter in her own life > such desperate act can be an expression of just the opposite emotion. Also, consider that at the beginning of the next season we find out that Xena has also abandoned her child when he was a baby. (And then of course, he later dies tragically--why the hell didn't they just call him So Long and be done with it...) > > Also interesting enough this the first time Xena dances. Obviously Xena > stopped at ancient equivalent of Arthur Murry and took same dancing lessons > just in time to meet Lucifer and Gurkhan. I was also reminded that a lot of > people were upset with Antony & Cleopatra and Gurkhan because Xena used her > sexuality to advance her plots. Obviously they forgot that Xena had used that > ploy before as she did in Cradle. > She used her sexuality ALL the time. It was just part of her bag of tricks. She sure teased Callisto with it constantly. > Anyway very enjoyable episodes. I wish we had seen a few more light-heart > episodes with Xena and Gabby helping strangers in the latter seasons. I, > however, wonder like others if you could have sustained much fan interest if > you continued on for six years with chatty naive Gabrielle and stoic Xena. > > CherylA XWP with all it's faults was NEVER formulaic in terms of the whole series. Certainly they followed a formula for the structure of each ep. Usually we had X&G being just grrls at the start, then we got the statement of the problem of the week, then we got the first fight, and then we got the close-up of Lucy's face as the teaser faded out. Just about every week. But looking at the series as a whole, it was always very daring and wildly creative. And certainly unique in so many ways. I don't know of any other show that included operettas, comparative religion excursions, martial arts gymnastics and a foundation of classic Greek tragedy. Among lots of other unusual presentations. Tapert has an incredibly eclectic mind and he sure had some oddball muses playing with his head. And with Stewart's. To my great delight. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 02:19:18 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] << Dreamworker & Cradle Of Hope Maternal Instinct>> > > Anyway very enjoyable episodes. I wish we had seen a few more light-heart > > episodes with Xena and Gabby helping strangers in the latter seasons. I, > > however, wonder like others if you could have sustained much fan interest if > > you continued on for six years with chatty naive Gabrielle and stoic Xena. > > > > CherylA > > > XWP with all it's faults was NEVER formulaic in terms of the whole series. > > KT Whooops! And I MEANT to finish with saying, so had they just stuck with chatty little Gabrielle and stoic Xena, then no, I don't think the show would have been as successful, as ground-breaking and as amazing as it was. I would possibly have kept watching it since I'm such a Xenaho, but I would not have "come out of the closet" about being a Xena fan. After season three I was no longer ashamed to be a Xena fan. After season four and parts of five, I was PROUD to be one. XWP was an amazing accomplishment for American TV. We see it's imitators every day on our little screens now. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 05:17:47 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] << Dreamworker & Cradle Of Hope>> On Mon, 15 Oct 2001, meredith wrote: > Hi, > > Ife noted: > > >I started doing that some months ago, and am now up to "Old Ares" of season > >6. I'm curious to see what discoveries I'll make in the old eps, once I've > >digested the last ones. Even now, it's interesting to re-hear lines that > >made me wonder at the time if they would have a bearing on the finale. I > >always wonder if some things were telegraphed or built on intentionally, or > >if we fans gave something significance that really had little bearing at all. Both. Tapert and Stewart knew and understood their characters. But also, as we all know, "Author intent does not equal reader response." Certainly all the different and sometimes totally oppositional texts that XWP supported in various viewer's eyes attest strongly to this truism of any artistic work. > > I think what happened is that TPTB attached significance to things after > the fact, to suit the purpose of whatever story they were trying to tell at > the time. I think that is so--people always build from the foundation they have laid before. But sometimes you wind up with things like a pregnant warrior hero. Or a warrior hero with a busted butt. Or a recurring guest star who joins another series. Or your production/distribution bosses asking you to add two new weekly series to your schedule when you're a small little independent television production company with limited staff and resources. Things that no one could really plan for. (Okay, the pregnancy doesn't quite fall into that category--but what a chance they had and what a sight they gave us--a woman warrior carrying her child and fighting off the bad guys. I was watching bloopers yesterday of Lucy in a scene with the snugli on her back, kicking butt and knocking all the baddies down--that is MARVELOUS!) Stewart and Tapert have said that season four WAS totally plotted out. That right from ep one, they knew what they wanted to say and where they were going with that season. In general, I think they also constantly had new ideas or something worked really well on the show (like Callisto...well, EVIL Callisto) and they just wanted to take advantage of things like that. But I also believe that season six was definitely a wrap up season, where they were looking at giving something to all the fan group bases. The sub-texters, the Ares/Xena shippers, the Hong Kong martial arts devotees, the fans who watched it for the high camp, the nudity/T&A enthusiasts, etc. etc. etc. We all had a little bit of everything and anything that year. As I say, I found season six more uneven than even season five in terms of quality, and I think this is part of it. The fans did the same thing, but often from the perspective of > assuming that TPTB had some grand plan that they were aiming toward all along. Well as I say above, they often had a plan. You hear this in interviews sometimes, especially in Chakram or in the official mags. Although the latest official mag is fairly frothy and has a number of sloppy errors in it at times. But also, Rob added new talent and let them have their heads (to a point). And new heads bring in new ideas that may get worked into the basic story and sometimes enhance it and sometimes make ya wanna gag. No show has perfect eps every week. Few shows make me want to watch them every week. > > _Dreamworker_ was obviously a seminal episode that was turned to many times > as the series went on. It's a "canon" episode, that helped set the > framework for the characterizations and mythology of the series. (It's one > of my all-time faves too -- I've been having a hard time distilling my > favorite 12 down for the Whoosh! poll...) > I think almost all of the first season early ones were (I shall used the word uterine as in a crucible of creation metaphor, rather than seminal, since we're talking about a grrl hero here), were "uterine" in setting out the framework and the story for the whole series. Sins of the Past--Xena as a bad grrl, working on reformation, Gabrielle as a lion-hearted brave but kind of excitable ("Leave them alone. Take ME instead!" Hell, they already GOT you, hon) kid. Xena as a great fighter, who can beat up boys. Gabrielle as an adventure seeker. And the beginning of the goofy comedy of the series--Xena spinning around on that guy's turban. LOL! Chariots of War--Xena's strong feelings for children and their positive and loving responses to her. Xena's eye for the boys. Xena's tendency to dress for function (in an "expose them T&A bits" kind of way) as opposed to any patience with dressing to just look fashionable. (Something that cropped up again in season four in Between the Lines--when she decides her "sexy" outfit is okay because she can fight in it.) Xena's desire for a family. The teasing between the grrls, "Remind me to talk to you about your taste in men sometime." The physical comedy from women--when they have their chariot hit the rock and both women go rolling across the sand whooping and yelling. Gabrielle's smart mouthyness. And her again stalking around after Xena. That scene where Gabrielle walks out and in all the wilderness of that area, walks unerringly right up to Xena just cracks me up. This is the first use of this homing pigeon ability which both grrls have where the other is concerned. Cradle of Hope--the first meeting up with a mythical figure (or at least her grandaughter--WHY did they make it the grandaughter and not just Pandora herself?) The first instance of "fracturing" myths to fit into the "Xena as hero of every myth" mindset. The first instant of fire-breathing. (Which eventually stopped being used when they finally figured out that Lucy might burn her eyebrows off some day.) The first use in Xena of well worn myths being given a new twist. And the first use of a Judeo-Christian motif in Xena. A continuing use of unusal for women physical comedy bit--the infamous baby toss. And so on and so forth. I don't see any substantial difference in the importance of Dreamworker as opposed to any of the other very early eps in terms of establishing the characters and setting up the recurring themes of the whole series. Each ep built on the one before it. And before many eps went by, we had the basic outline of the whole show. Ifrae wrote: > > One is example is in ONE AGAINST AN ARMY, when Gabrielle basically says she > >accepted the consequences of traveling with Xena -- in that case, that one > >might die before the other. Yes, you've brought this up before especially in regard to FINS. And it's an excellent point. Gabrielle restated that the greater good was more important than their individual lives. That some things are worth dying for. > > Another "canon" episode, which referred back to the previous episodes as > much as it provided subsequent setup for later episodes. (And gee, another > one of my all-time faves. :) What was different and unique in OAAA? In terms of standing out from any of the others? Almost every ep "referred back...and provided subsequent setup for later episdoes". All eps do this--XWP is one long, dovetailed series. It has basic themes and arcs that have lasted through all six seasons and shorter more focused arcs which run for a few seasons. Even the "one-offs" like say Antony and Cleopatra (no wait--that had Brutus in it...) Uh...okay, Heart of Darkness...no, that also came out of the past eps. Alright, alright--Prometheus? That was pretty much a monster of the week stand alone one, although even that one has the first mention of the soulmate theme in it. There's just a quick building up of the foundation and then subsequent additions to the unwavering foundation in every additional ep. Even very outlandish and daring, outside the box eps like Deja vu, You Are There and the infamous Fishsticks, even these carry on from themes set in earlier eps, like the relationship among Xena, Joxer and Gabrielle, Xena's warlord past, and yes, the grrls as soulmates. I just don't think any one ep can be pointed to as diverging greatly from just about any other in terms of series continuity, fleshing out of ongoing characterizations and situations, and being used as a possible springboard for those eps that come along after it. > > Ever since _Babylon 5_, continuity has been a very important part of my > enjoyment of a series. I've noticed that more and more shows have been > incorporating continuity and arc development, I'm not sure if it's because > of B5 or if it's just coincidence. That's why sometimes TPTB drove me > round the bend by not paying attention to their own history at times. I > think if they had had more of a game plan, the show would've been even more > satisfying than it was. That may be true. But I personally feel that I'd much rather have had the incredible heights that XWP achieved from their grasp overreaching their abilities than for them to have been just like any other somewhat successful TV series, running along in a very proscribed rut. So I happily sacrifice some continuity in exchange for seeing literally breath taking chances being taken by PacRen. Season three for example. I have NEVER before gasped out loud at something I saw on a TV screen (that was fictional.) The incredible mix of philosophies and genres. The explosion of any encasing envelopes to mere shreds left behind in the dust. I just loved their outrageousness. I could never get into Babylon Five. I will never forget XWP. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 09:23:11 -0500 (EST) From: Lynn W Ribaud Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] tapes OK, time for me to chime in... > 1. I can get an original, and I'm willing to share. I think I fit in here... I have a favor to ask of all who have requested a tape from me. Please send me a short e-mail with the heading "tape request" with your snail-mail address. I'm a bit organizationally challenged, you see... I plan to copy at SP on T-160 tapes in VHS. But I can also do S-VHS or S-VHS-ET, and I can tape at EP (or at the middle speed, LP, for VHS or S-VHS). So if you want me to send you something other than the default method, say so. I don't know how much a T-160 will cost, but it should certainly be less than $2, and more like $1.50, I'd think. So far, I am making about eight or ten tapes. I can make far more. So if you're feeling sorry for the poor people who are duplicating the things and don't want to burden them any more, don't worry about it in my case. I'll gladly do more! Lynn Lynn Ribaud, Local Contact X3A Beamline, National Synchrotron Light Source, Brookhaven National Lab ribaud@acsu.buffalo.edu ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 10:48:28 -0500 From: "Josh Harrison" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] tapes - ----- Original Message ----- From: > So it seems we need a roll call. With three categories. Is somebody actually keping track to organize this? > 1. I can get an original, and I'm willing to share. This is my category. I planning on getting an original, and if needed, I can haul my back-up VCR out of the attic and make a dub or two (ah, the wonders of marriage -- sometimes you get all sort of extra stuff). - -- Josh mataxes@mint.net ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:10:59 -0500 From: Mirrordrum Subject: [chakram-refugees] <> spoilers / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / just a few remarks. i watched snatches of today, including xena's primo entry of course. i hadn't noticed the first however many times i watched it how quick the guards at the gate are. they open the gate and she comes roaring through, decks them and then goes along flattening loitering soldiers to left and right. then after some stunt mayhem footage, we get a shot from approximately caesar's position past xena back toward the gates. altho she just rode through wreaking havoc, the gates are closed and the guards are back at attention. the rest of the soldiers she knocked about are still wallowing in the dirt. those gate guys take their work seriously and are not easily to be put off! once again i couldn't believe the amount of water in xena's crucifixion scene--they were sloshing around in puddles. also i was interested--a clinical word for a visceral reaction--in the intensity of the presentation. in their first and second crucifixions, xena and gab are very different than in this last one. i believe there was some discussion on one of the lists (i know i posted somewhere) to the effect that i'd expect this gabrielle to be much more frightened and resistant given her new "history." made sense. what surprises me each time i watch this ep is lucy's (xena's) prolonged scream and intense depiction of agony. the and crucifixions were, i think, toned down a bit--or perhaps this one was ramped up. and the earlier ones were bad enough. this one was off the scale for me. i found it much more excruciating in every way. the only word i can think of for the direction of this scene is that it was filmed "lovingly." fawcett savors this scene and he obviously does not hate working with lucy--or perhaps xena, or both. each time i view it, i feel more and more strongly that fawcett really put lucy through her paces on this one and she rises splendidly to the occasion with all kinds of complex emotions to go through. of course i give props to ren (i would ) for being willing to do the drudgery of pretty much standing around being a blank scroll waiting for xena to write on her. i was most intrigued by fugate's interview in which she describes lucy sort of morphing suddenly into xena--going from being a goofball with her son to being her character with no noticeable pause. renee, otoh, comes to welcome fugate to the set, has read the script, caught all the finer points and discusses the themes and then goes into professional mode. how fortunate for all concerned that these two women were able to work like that and work together so well. what a team. two women, one journey! oh yeah. md ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:47:15 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> <> > an informed source advised me in private that it's the editor who probably > gets directions like "show time passing" and just takes it from there. so > right you are. you'd think i'd know this kind of thing by now, but i don't. > so i ask. it's still all a wonderful mystery to me how these things come > together. > > md Little Dem Bones mention added Well, like all of filmed media it is most likely a combination of people's intents and contributions. The story the writer made up here included a long journey as part of it. The writer may make suggestions for indicating how to portray that but more likely just writes, "G goes to Scandinavia". (Today, G would probably make that trip on an Olivia cruise.) Because the writer's job is really to just provide the framework, a kind of blueprint for the director and the set designers and costume designers to work from. Cluttering up scripts with directorial comments wastes space and only annoys the director. Grin. The director may indicate on her or his storyboards how s/he wants to show this action, specifically how she wants to indicate that distance has been covered and time has been spent. Or, the director may just make suggestions to the editor, even if somewhat vague ones. Or indeed may just leave it to the editor as stated above. And of course the cinematographer is also involved in getting the shots the director calls for working with the A unit or the B unit. Those travel shots were probably B unit work, I would imagine. The editor makes a "first draft" cut and the director then works with the editor to make the director's cut. The executive producers then get a crack at changing anything in the finished product, after the director's cut. And then the suits who own the whole shebang get final approval. A GREAT deal depends upon the director's artistic needs and work habits and the relationships between the producers, the director and the editors. (And of course always, how much money and time can be spent on getting this ep into the can. As in, we gotta have SOMETHING by Tuesday. No excuses about needing more time or more footage. The show airs a product every week. Period. A show with the incredibly high production values that XWP displayed is truly a remarkable product for weekly TV.) In a show like Xena, where Fields has been one of the editors since the beginning of the series, I would imagine that Tapert and any of the recurring and possibly some of the new directors would be comfortable with suggestions and input from him. In fact, I read that in Them Bones Tapert kept sending back the weird montages for when Gabrielle is traveling to the spirit world to confront Alti, requesting that the editor make it even stranger and more bizarre. But not saying specifically what he wanted. Hence we got those WAY odd alligator tearing at fish bits and molecules of blood flowing through veins, etc. For me, this montage did not work near so well as the one in Sins Trade that showed Xena accessing the spirit world. Because the Bones montage threw me out of the story and made me go, "What the furk...why are we in Florida?" (Florida being my default for "Where alligators are".) And yeah, XWP was always visually beautiful. One of my favorite wipes is in Rheingold--when a horse crosses the set in the modern day and then literally rides into the past and becomes the horse Xena is riding when she first meets Odin. Without any cuts during the transition. PacRen just had marvelous mastery of the medium. Although their special effects were often fairly cheezy to me. I just NEVER believed those centaurs as real creatures--I always saw the man in the horse. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 19:33:27 -0500 From: "Lee Daley" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] tapes > [mailto:owner-chakram-refugees@smoe.org]On Behalf Of meredith > > Hi, > > Lee ordered: > > >Could we have a roll-call here. > > Keeping score: it looks like we've got two sources for originals (KTL and > md), and two tapers: Lynn and LeeD. > > I'm getting my copy from Lynn, so I'm all set ... it looks like > it's just a > matter of those wanting a copy to get in touch with Lynn and/or > LeeD, right? > It looks like we got it covered. Originals from md, KTL, and TEXena Lynn copying md's LeeD copying Texena's KTL copying from unknown source. That's 15 tapes (assuming 5 each). I count only about 5 in the need column. We seem to have excess capacity, at this point. So even with a dish/cable outage or an anthrax (I knew her, Ann Thrax, about 5'6", natural redhead, think she was majoring in microbiology, nice person..........) contaminated post office, we should be good. So as long as everybody manages to pair off with their favorite Xenatappen pusher, we should be good! Sorry, but that damn Sergeant thingie comes back from time to time, usually when everyone is being nice and deferring to everybody else, and a plan doesn't seem to be forthcoming, the meds do keep it under control most of the time. Sorry if I ruffled any feathers. LeeD, Warrior Jester, just waiting for tape and looking for sales on 10-packs of T160 Hi-grades. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 19:58:48 -0500 From: "Lee Daley" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] tapes MeToo I've secured an original, have no committed ones in need. LeeD, will work for trinkets > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-chakram-refugees@smoe.org > [mailto:owner-chakram-refugees@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Lynn W Ribaud > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 9:23 AM > To: Lee Daley > Cc: chakram-refugees@smoe.org > Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] tapes > > > OK, time for me to chime in... > > > 1. I can get an original, and I'm willing to share. > > I think I fit in here... > > I have a favor to ask of all who have requested a tape from me. > Please send me a short e-mail with the heading "tape request" with your > snail-mail address. I'm a bit organizationally challenged, you see... I > plan to copy at SP on T-160 tapes in VHS. But I can also do S-VHS or > S-VHS-ET, and I can tape at EP (or at the middle speed, LP, for VHS or > S-VHS). So if you want me to send you something other than the default > method, say so. I don't know how much a T-160 will cost, but it should > certainly be less than $2, and more like $1.50, I'd think. > So far, I am making about eight or ten tapes. I can make far > more. So if you're feeling sorry for the poor people who are duplicating > the things and don't want to burden them any more, don't worry about it in > my case. I'll gladly do more! > > > Lynn > > > Lynn Ribaud, Local Contact > X3A Beamline, National Synchrotron Light Source, Brookhaven National Lab > ribaud@acsu.buffalo.edu > ========================================================= > This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with > "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. > Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. > ========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 22:01:00 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] RE: Tapes I am willing to tape. I don't get Oxygen. I have asked Lynn for a tape and will do the five tape thing. I don't know if I'm on her list or not I did e-mail her. That's about where it stands. We will have to wait until Saturday to see if everyone's plans to tape works out. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V1 #25 *************************************