From: owner-canadian-music-digest@smoe.org (canadian-music-digest) To: canadian-music-digest@smoe.org Subject: canadian-music-digest V1 #17 Reply-To: canadian-music@smoe.org Sender: owner-canadian-music-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-canadian-music-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk canadian-music-digest Monday, July 13 1998 Volume 01 : Number 017 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Indigo Girls Tour [Riphug@aol.com] Moxy! (WAS: Re: Sarah Slean etc.) ["Tabassum Siddiqui" ] Bass Is Base [Re: Sarah Slean etc.] ["Andrea " ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 19:19:22 EDT From: Riphug@aol.com Subject: Indigo Girls Tour Recently posted on ecto: <<>Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 11:51:28 -0400 (EDT) >From: Epic_Records@epiccenter.music.sony.com >To: indigogirls@listserv.music.sony.com >Subject: Indigo Girls > >Are you ready to rock? Well you better be because the >Indigo Girls have announced their "Suffragette Sessions >Tour"! Their hitting the road in this August and not >resting until September. This tour is bound to be one of >the best! The tour includes: > > Amy Ray of Indigo Girls > Emily Sailor of Indigo Girls > Gail Ann Dorsey > Lisa Germano > Lourdes Perez > Kate Schellenbach of Louscious Jackson > Jane Siberry > Jean Smith of Mecca Normal > Josephine Wiggs of the Breeders > Thalla Zedek of Come > >Wednesday 8/19 Portland, ME State Theater >Thursday 8/20 Burlington, VT Memorial Auditorium >Saturday 8/21 Cleveland, OH Agora >Monday 8/24 Detroit, MI State Theater >Tuesday 8/25 Chicago, IL Riviera >Wednesday 8/26 Chicago, IL Riviera >Thursday 8/27 Milwaukee, WI Rave >Friday 8/28 Minneapolis, MN First Ave. >Sunday 8/30 Cincinnati, OH Bogart's >Tuesday 9/01 Norfolk, VA Boathouse >Wednesday 9/02 Philadelphia Electric Factory > >****************** >> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 17:12:35 PDT From: "Tabassum Siddiqui" Subject: Moxy! (WAS: Re: Sarah Slean etc.) Steve wrote: >>theirs? Also, I'm interested any hearing Moxy Fruvous. I've heard >>so many good things about them from other BNL fans, but I've never >>heard them. Any > >Us Canucks are not going to be very useful in answering this >question I think. There aren't too many Canadians who own anything >past their first album. ARGH! What? Shame on you, Steve! ;) I, for one, have never wavered in my support of the band, even when they were completely shunned by the Canadian music industry/fans at one point. And now that they seem to be coming somewhat back into fashion, having garnered a strong U.S. fan base (isn't that always the way? ), I'm proud to say that they're just as amazing as they've always been. It's not only because I've known the guys for five years now, honest! ;-) >There's a mysterious phenomenon that's occurred with both of these >groups in that they both got way too big in Canada way too fast, and >suddenly neither of these bands could sell albums in Canada after >their first albums. I spoke with Jian from Moxy about it once and Hmm, true. Both BNL and Moxy had a very similar career for a few years - - both groups sold tons of copies of their indie cassette as local favorites, then became national favorites with their fun first albums, and prety much bombed out on their more 'serious' follow-up records when the public grew tired of them. They were, in a word, ubiquitous for a while. They were *everywhere*, and I suppose people just had enough after a while... >he said they could see it happening but just couldn't prevent it... >the Moxy guys even tried calling the radio stations requesting them >NOT to play their songs so much. But it was inexorable; people got >sick of them, their images became synonymous with "teenyboppers" and >"top-40" and that the beginning of the end for their Canadian Ummm, no, I really don't think they were *ever* considered "Top 40" *or* teenybopper-ish. Moxy's crowd has always been a very, very diverse one, from kids to older folks, and they never really had much of a hit on radio besides "King of Spain" and "Stuck in the '90's". BNL, on the other hand, had more of a younger fanbase and a ton of radio play. >market. I hadn't the heart to tell him that I was >almost as bad as everyone else; all I have is their indie cassette >and their first CD. Ah well. I went to one of their shows last >night for the first time in about 3 or 4 years (although I did see And didn't they totally rock, Steve? They really were amazing - all these years of touring have put them on top of their game, musically. They were extremely tight and yet as spontaneous and fun as ever. >them play a couple of songs in a surprise set at a Tom Waits tribute >in a small club a few weeks ago). I'm happy to report that their >shows are just as fun as ever. I'm glad to see that both of these >bands are achieving success in the US, they deserve it. Jian had a >theory that for Canadian audiences to really embrace a Canadian >band, that band must first achieve success in the US >first. I disagreed with him but he did have a point; as a whole >Canucks didn't forgive Alanis Morissette her dance-queen past and >accept her new alternative thing until she'd made it big in the US. >So who knows? Maybe you americans will have to teach us Canucks how >to like BNL and moxy again... Hell, no! I've had enough arguments with Jian on this point to last a lifetime, so I'm not going to begin to endorse this theory now! Firstly, the Alanis thing, in my opinion, was a bandwagon effect. One of the first stations to score big with "You Oughta Know" was Toronto's CFNY, *not* L.A.'s KROQ, as has been previously reported, so I don't think it was that Canadians followed the Americans' lead. Also, how does this theory support the current trend of absolutely huge Canadian alt-rock bands that are just now starting to make an impact in the U.S. *after* they became huge at home, such as Our Lady Peace, Sloan, Moist, and others? Maybe it's true that Canadians grew tired of BNL and Moxy and are only beginning to take notice again because they've heard how big these bands are becoming in the U.S. But I don't think people are going out to pick up BNL's 'Stunt' just because they're doing so well in the U.S. - those people heard "One Week" on the radio, and marvelled at what an amazing song it is. Okay, so maybe their U.S. success had something to do with radio programmers here deciding to take a shot on them again, I'll admit, but that's the stupid sheep-mentality that most pop stations still have all over North America. Second example - like Steve, I know a bunch of folks who ventured out to see Fruvous last week, even though the show wasn't heavily promoted or anything, they heard about it and went, and were reminded of how good the guys are, and they all picked up a copy of the new "Live Noise" album as they were leaving. Point being - it's all about the MUSIC! I'm thrilled for BNL that they sold half a million copies of "Rock Spectacle" in the U.S., but I'd be much happier if they'd sell half that many copies of "Stunt" here at home. I'd urge all you Canucks who gave up on BNL and Moxy after the first album or 2 to take another listen - I think you'll like what you hear. I'd love to see 16,000 fans at the HORDE fest in Toronto later this month screaming their faces off for BNL. :) Moxy Fruvous is also doing several Canadian dates for the first time in at least a year or 2, so go out and support them as well. Both groups are naturally a little gun-shy of the Canadian market these days, having been burned badly by both the media and the fans, so they really need to see that the support is out there. BNL did a really smart thing by hooking up with the amazing Nettwerk Records' management team - Sarah McLachlan's manager, the genius Terry McBride, got them where they are today by touring them incessantly all over the U.S., and so that's where they've built up a devoted fan base, naturally enough. But I do think there are still lots of true fans left here at home as well, and I really think they need to see that we're still out here if they are to come home and put the effort into doing a full tour. The guys have admitted that while they're kinda disappointed in the Canadian response to them over the past few years, they just haven't *been* at home enough in the past 3 years or so to really even know how much support there is for them here. Let's show them that we're still here, we still care, and that we don't need no Americans to show us how cool our own bands are! ;-) - - Tab :) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 20:29:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "Yeah, I want some Cheesy Poofs!" Subject: Re: Sarah Slean etc. > BTW, where are all the fans of the higher profile canuck bands? Where are > all the Moist, Tea Party, Our Lady Peace, Barenaked Ladies, Tragically Hip > etc etc fans? Just curious! Right here. *Hi Steve* Canada puts out so many good bands, like the Hip, OLP, Rush, Moist, I Mother Earth, and the Odds. I recently got back into the Hip, after not liking them for a few years. Their new CD comes out this tuesday! whoo hoo! Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 20:34:33 -0400 (EDT) From: "Yeah, I want some Cheesy Poofs!" Subject: Re: Sarah Slean etc. > YTV's personal favourites!), Rush even. On another list we've been > pondering the depth and breadth of the Canadian scene, and the dearth of > exposure for the whole urban/hiphop scene. What list might this be???? I'm really into the hip hop scene as well, but only know of 1 or 2 artists artists out of Canada. Saw Bass Is Base open for BNL a few years ago, and they totally rocked Massey. :) Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 22:20:44 -0400 From: Steve I Subject: Re: Moxy! (WAS: Re: Sarah Slean etc.) At 08:12 PM 7/12/98 -0400, you wrote: >Steve wrote: >>he said they could see it happening but just couldn't prevent it... >>the Moxy guys even tried calling the radio stations requesting them >>NOT to play their songs so much. But it was inexorable; people got >>sick of them, their images became synonymous with "teenyboppers" and >>"top-40" and that the beginning of the end for their Canadian > >Ummm, no, I really don't think they were *ever* considered "Top 40" *or* >teenybopper-ish. I don't mean the band themselves, but their fan base. I know that a lot of people DO consider them to be the kind of band to draw these kinds of fans, because that is the reason that a lot of my concert-going friends don't like Moxy anymore and why they didn't want to go to last week's show with me. I can draw an example from personal experience... I went to an all-ages Moxy show in Kingston about a year after the sort of backlash against them started happening (among people my age, anyways), and I swear my friend and I were the only people there who could have legally bought alcohol (a considerable change from the previous shows I'd been to, which were almost exclusively attended by the college crowd). The place was crawling with pubescent kids and young teenagers who were literally going into screaming, bawling hysterics at every movement any of the guys made on stage. I've logged a considerable number of hours going to all manner of concerts over the years, but that was the only concert I've ever attended that I felt like I was stuck in some sort of bizarre time-warp and watching a Beatles show. After that even *I* didn't want to go to another all-ages moxy show again, ever, despite still liking their music and their shows. And certainly for *me*, the connection between Moxy, and a screaming horde of teenybopper fans was inevitable. I think that this kind of thing is part of the reason why so many people (my age, anyways) got turned off by Moxy. However, I figured that with the huge reduction in radio play they've had over the last few years, that it would be safe to venture out to another show, and that did indeed turn out to be the case. The fans at last week's show were much more diverse, and a lot less annoying, than the ones that infested the last show I attended. I think the wheel has gone around again and the fan base has reverted back to the more serious music fans, and the Casey Casum (sp?) crew have moved on to other things (thankfully). >Moxy's crowd has always been a very, very diverse one, >from kids to older folks, and they never really had much of a hit on >radio besides "King of Spain" and "Stuck in the '90's". BNL, on the As Moxy has proven, it doesn't take a lot of singles to make people sick of a band. Moxy's decline in Canada was *definitely* a backlash against their media overexposure, just as it was for BNL. >>bands are achieving success in the US, they deserve it. Jian had a >>theory that for Canadian audiences to really embrace a Canadian >band, >that band must first achieve success in the US >>first. I disagreed with him but he did have a point; as a whole >how >does this theory support the current trend of absolutely huge Canadian >alt-rock bands that are just now starting to make an impact in the U.S. >*after* they became huge at home, such as Our Lady Peace, Sloan, Moist, >and others? Hey, his argument, not mine. :-) I agree, there is ample evidence that Canadians can adopt a homegrown act and make them huge, at least in Canada. Perhaps even better examples are bands that achieved a huge amount of success in Canada but never been able to have much of an impact in the US, such as Spirit of the West and of course the Hip. But in his defense, there are lots of other people who feel the same way, including at least one member of a band you mentioned. I remember thinking after our little debate that Jian had a strange view of Canadian music fans, but not long after that an article appeared in Chart Magazine about breaking into the US Market making all the same kinds of points that he did. One of the quotes in the article was by OLP guitarist Mike Turner, who said that it took over a year of scrapping it out in the Canadian music industry for OLP to go gold in Canada with Naveed, but when "Starseed" suddenly got big in the US, that's when Canada's mainstream audience took notice and jumped on the bandwagon and it took less than a couple of months to go platinum and double platinum in Canada. He said "maybe I'm being cynical in saying this, but it seemed that external validation made the difference". Myself, I'm unconvinced. I think that it may have been true in the past, where bands HAD to go to the US to be able to pay the rent (Joni Mitchell, Neil Young, Rush, etc etc etc) because Canadian audiences sure wouldn't. But I think that there has been enough good Canadian music being made that has also succeeded in the States for Canadian fans to realize that hey, Canada produces some damn good bands. It doesn't take a lot of Alanis Morissettes or Sarah McLachlans or the other aforementioned bands to show that. I think that nowadays the average Canadian music fan gives Canadian bands a fair chance and more, as long as they can *hear* it on the radio. As Tab points out though, here as much as anywhere else, commercial radio programmers are largely unimaginative/unadventuresome and tend to mirror the playlists of certain influential U.S. radio stations, in particular KROQ in LA. That's as good an argument for Cancon regulations as any. Anyway enough rambling. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 23:59:25 -0400 From: "Andrea " Subject: Bass Is Base [Re: Sarah Slean etc.] > > YTV's personal favourites!), Rush even. On another list we've been > > pondering the depth and breadth of the Canadian scene, and the dearth of > > exposure for the whole urban/hiphop scene. > > What list might this be???? I'm really into the hip hop scene as well, > but only know of 1 or 2 artists artists out of Canada. Saw Bass Is Base > open for BNL a few years ago, and they totally rocked Massey. :) Ahhhhh I'm going to cry! Everytime I hear about Bass Is Base I feel like crying, especially when someone mentions seeing them live...aaaahhhh how I wish I was able to see them live, they are my absolute favourite band of all time! Ahhhhh booo hooo hooo...Whatever happen to original diverse music with meaningful lyrics? No, I'm not insulting music, I love music, there are lots of great acts out there, but couldn't BIB wait for me to see them before they broke up!?!?! Damnit don't they know the world revolves around me!?!?!?! I got to see a total of 30 seconds when they played in front of the big HMV at 333 Yonge a great many years ago [it seems] when Yonge St. had it's 100th birthday celebration...my damn friends had to order the huge muther fooking "Kitchen Sink" from Lime Rickeys...ANYWAY, my point is...that Bass Is Base rawks, and I only wish that they had stayed together, they were really something... BTW: is there another fan run Bass Is Base site out there? ~Andrea! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ PROUDLY CANADIAN MUSIC: http://home.istar.ca/~andyc/proudlycanadian.htm BOOTLEGS BABY: http://members.tripod.com/~andycanada/boots.htm ***Please send all trade related e-mails to: andycanada@yahoo.com ICQ: 10294764 AOL IM: TheAndyC Join #canadianmusic on the Undernet!!!!!!! ------------------------------ End of canadian-music-digest V1 #17 ***********************************