From: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org (believers-digest) To: believers-digest@smoe.org Subject: believers-digest V11 #8 Reply-To: believers@smoe.org Sender: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk believers-digest Wednesday, January 24 2007 Volume 11 : Number 008 In Today's believer's digest: ----------------- Re: Probably Not and what not.... ["Tracy J. Wells" ] Re: Probably Not and what not.... ["Tracy J. Wells" ] Re: Probably Not and what not.... ["Tracy J. Wells" ] Re: Probably Not and what not.... ["Tracy J. Wells" ] Re: Probably Not and what not.... ["john vavrek" ] Re: Probably Not and what not.... ["Tracy J. Wells" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:37:40 -0600 From: "Tracy J. Wells" Subject: Re: Probably Not and what not.... Hey everyone -- sorry about my original post that was so long it caused some kind of a problem on the list-serv (err.... oops!!! I've never been on an email list that had a LENGTH LIMIT before!! This could seriously be a problem for me as I am NOTORIOUS for my long emails... this will be good discipline for me, though. One of my friends has told me I need to work on "self-editing." I'm trying. ;o) Bob, let me respond to some of your comments... and then I might respond to some other people's emails as well. I'm finding this whole conversation quite fascinating... On Jan 20, 2007, at 11:07 AM, Bobdog25nj@aol.com wrote: > Thank you Tracy for your thoughtful response to my original post about > "Probably Not" - or my limited memory of "Probably Not". I found > what you had to > say very interesting. It had not occurred to me frankly that some > religiously > devout people might LIKE Susan's new record - but obviously this is > the case. > Yes, indeed!!! It's funny, she didn't do the entire song on Friday night, but she did a sort of little sample/preview of it, and the audience exploded into applause at the end of it. The concert was held at a church (albeit a Disciples of Christ church -- generally pretty liberal denomination), so Susan was quite shocked that everyone loved that one so much. "Oh, you like that one, do you??" she asked "You're at West Des Moines Christian Church!! We're going to hell for even mentioning that song!" LOL. > > > It was never my intention to say something bad about ALL religious > people ( > I think you could tell that ). I did sorta make it clear that I am > no fan of > Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson. If it came across wrong - and I > offended any > religious people on the list - I apologize . This would be a > genuine apology - > not just to be polite - as I am a person of faith myself ( sorta ) > - and I > honestly would never want to hurt someone's feelings purely over > their faith. No, no, no, I didn't think this was your intention at all! My comments were really more about "folk music people" in general, or at least a sort of "atmosphere" I've observed in various folk concerts in the Boston area at least, and at Falcon Ridge. > > As far as "folk music" people being generally hostile to religion - > I think > I know what you mean - but I would say that actually folk music > people might > be better described as hostile to one particular form of > fundamentalist > Christianity - and most especially right now because George W. Bush > is President - > and he keeps talking about "faith-based communities" - by which he > always and > only means fundamentalist Christians - and he also has an annoying > habit of > trying to erase the wall of separation between Church and State. some others responded to this, so I'll respond to it in another email... > > The history of folk music is full of liberal Christians. And Bruce > Cockburn > among others is a devoutly religious Christian - and a big folk > music guy > right now. ( At least, last time I checked ). Dylan was a little > while - but it > didn't work out I guess. Hmm, yeah, interesting -- good point. > > The "mysterious and beautiful song about death" that I keep talking > about ( > because it took my breath away ) - I remember that this song had > some sorta > "hope" or "wishfulness" that there is a God and a life after death. > It is also > an incredibly beautiful melody - and Susan just stunned the whole > room when > she played it on the piano at "Outpost In The Burbs". After hearing it, I see now why you are so enthralled with it. "took my breath away" is a great description for its effect. My sister's assessment of it was, "it's so beautiful it HURTS" -- I thought that was also a great way to put it. Just the opening chord progressions and whatnot sent chills up my spine. It's this kind of beauty in art that makes me sure there IS a God! That song felt inspired and holy to me... > > Let me just add a footnote to Charlie. No apology is necessary for > the minor > little problem with the last addition of the list. But - as long as > it's > come up - I would like to take the opportunity to say "Thank You" > for running > the list. I know it can be a lot of work - and I appreciate very > much having > this place to discuss Susan and her songs. > Yes, THANK YOU!!! and again, I apologize for causing problems with my long emails! Tracy HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:51:45 -0600 From: "Tracy J. Wells" Subject: Re: Probably Not and what not.... On Jan 20, 2007, at 11:42 AM, meredith wrote: > Hi, > > Bobdog25nj@aol.com wrote: >> As far as "folk music" people being generally hostile to religion >> - I think I know what you mean - but I would say that actually >> folk music people might be better described as hostile to one >> particular form of fundamentalist Christianity - and most >> especially right now because George W. Bush is President - and he >> keeps talking about "faith-based communities" - by which he always >> and only means fundamentalist Christians - and he also has an >> annoying habit of trying to erase the wall of separation between >> Church and State. > > This is my take on it, as well. I know many Christian folk fans > (in fact, at one point half of the group putting on the New Haven > Folk Festival was either an administrator or a student at the Yale > Divinity School), and the impression I've gotten is that people who > seem to be dissing religion at places like Falcon Ridge are > actually expressing their anger at the theocracy America has become. Yes... but... the object of their anger is often a bit of a caricature, a straw man. Yes, America has been moving in some not-so- great directions with the whole church/state thing, but what disturbs me is when people seem to generalize that perspective to ALL conservative or evangelical Christians, when I know for a fact that the MAJORITY of conservative and evangelical Christians I know are not nearly as nutty as people like Robertson and Falwell, and I see a lot of the anger toward some of the government/religion fiascos being generalized toward groups that aren't really necessarily a part of that or agree with that. I mean, I agree with a lot of their criticisms but I think we often lose sight of nuance and forget to seek understanding of the other side when we get among like-minded individuals and start our Bush-bashing or religion-bashing songs and loud, rowdy applause and cheering. It just makes me uncomfortable. A lot of it is funny and sometimes i think it's harmless, but sometimes I feel like there's a real lack of desire to even TRY to understand someone else's perspective, instead just dismissing them as "stupid" or whatever. HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 19:03:33 -0600 From: "Tracy J. Wells" Subject: Re: Probably Not and what not.... I don't know, I wouldn't wish on Susan any kind of public dragging through the mud by the likes of these guys, no matter how many CDs it would help her sell. I always hate "controversy" publicity anyway (it so often seems like people are just TRYING to cause conflict). Better that, as Bob said, this all stays under their radar. Who needs to have to deal with that kind of press? (But hey, I mean, if you're going to "change his world," go for it, Amy.... ;o) On Jan 20, 2007, at 2:40 PM, Amy Whipple wrote: > Haha, I've so had fantasies though of meeting up with Jerry (I hear > he hangs > out at the local chain restaurants) and saying, "You've got to > hear..." at > which point, I change his world. (This is what happens when you > have way > too much free time on your hands and an overactive imagination.) > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-believers@smoe.org [mailto:owner-believers@smoe.org] On > Behalf > Of meredith > Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 3:15 PM > To: believers@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Probably Not and what not.... > > Hi, > > Steve Murphy wrote: >> You are definitely on to something Meth! And there's nothing stopping >> any of us from posing as "an offended one" and blasting off an >> note and >> a copy of the CD to one of these righteous folks, as a concerned >> member >> of the religious right (yes - infiltrate) citing passages that are >> offensive to our strong Fundamental Christian values. > > I certainly wouldn't encourage that, though. Better to have it happen > organically, if it's going to > happen at all. > > > > -- > =============================================== > Meredith Tarr > New Haven, CT USA > mailto:meth@smoe.org > http://www.smoe.org/meth > =============================================== > hear at the HOMe House Concert Series > http://hom.smoe.org > =============================================== > > HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org > Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs > http://worldcafecds.com > > HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org > Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs > http://worldcafecds.com HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 19:10:18 -0600 From: "Tracy J. Wells" Subject: Re: Probably Not and what not.... yes, this new material feels deeply personal and almost confessional to me. It felt incredibly intimate to watch her perform these songs. I know songwriters are used to making themselves vulnerable on some level, but it really feels like this is on another level. I really commend her for having the strength and courage to put herself out there like this, which really does make some of the deepest parts of herself vulnerable for criticism and critique. On the other hand, I think precisely because of the personal, intimate nature of it, it will connect with some very deep parts in others. Adopting this kind of openness can really make us more human to one another, and I'm really thankful to her for "going there" in her music. You're right, Sharon, we ARE "blessed" to be on the receiving end of this and get to enter this space with her -- it's a privilege. On Jan 20, 2007, at 2:48 PM, Sharon G wrote: > my take on susan's record is a personal struggling with her own > beliefs and where she fits in her own religious spectrum.... Susan > grew up and experienced the church in one way, and through her > adolescents and young adulthood, another way and finally as an adult > is examining all of these... She also does so in context of the > Christianization of a Country that she clearly loves but with a > government that preaches to the masses, used a religiousl "base" for > political means, has integrated those same religious beliefs into > public policy, or as a reward to the Base for voting or just keeping > their campaign promises ( see it as you will).... > then there are those who dont believe or dont fit the mold, or pay the > way the government expects you to pray and the natural tension with a > government that is inclusive... Central to this is Susan and how all > of this has impacted her and how she experiences it... > > all in all, i think its susan finding her own way with her religious > self, in the way she knows best... through her art... > > we just happen to be blessed by being on the receiving side of her > struggle.... > > it saved her a bundle in therapy..... > > sharon G > > HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org > Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs > http://worldcafecds.com HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 17:40:07 -0800 From: "john vavrek" Subject: Re: Probably Not and what not.... >this new material feels deeply personal and almost confessional to me. It felt incredibly intimate to watch her perform these songs. you know, that's the same feeling I've had every time I have seen Susan perform. point of fact, that's the element of performance that moves me in any artist. in some way, it's like experiencing the moment of creation, right there on the stage in front of me. this is what I try to bring to any audience when I feel moved to perform (or when I've committed myself to perform!). when I see a performance that feels contrived, or staged, it just doesn't captivate me. sure, sometimes you can tell that someone is saying the same lead-in to a song that has been written, rehearsed and rehashed a few dozen times. but you can also tell when the performance is a genuine performance. and not a rehash. boy, it is so annoying when an artist will release a record that sounds exactly like the last release: the sensitive song, the funny song, the song with the accordion, the song with the guest male vocalist.... Susan Werner is SO admirable that she continues to be imaginative and creative in a world where "the machine' wants a repeat performance of last year. did anyone see the sequel? I mean, let's think about it. why bother with Saw II? didn't the first gruesome flick state the obvious frequently enough to satisfy everyone's morbidity?! and then to dare to state "religio-politically" unpopular ideas, as apparently Susan Werner does on her new track, well, art knows no bounds. oops, rambling again. could have been writing off-list to Ron. I can't wait for the new release! I hope to G*d Susan manages to come to Seattle so I don't have to drive the short few hundred miles to Ukiah to see her this year. respectfully submitted, john in the warming suburbs of Seattle HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 20:05:28 -0600 From: "Tracy J. Wells" Subject: Re: Probably Not and what not.... On Jan 23, 2007, at 7:40 PM, john vavrek wrote: > > point of fact, that's the element of performance that moves me in any > artist. in some way, it's like experiencing the moment of > creation, right > there on the stage in front of me. this is what I try to bring to any > audience when I feel moved to perform (or when I've committed > myself to > perform!). Yes -- that is a beautiful way to describe it -- "the moment of creation" > > when I see a performance that feels contrived, or staged, it just > doesn't > captivate me. sure, sometimes you can tell that someone is saying > the same > lead-in to a song that has been written, rehearsed and rehashed a > few dozen > times. but you can also tell when the performance is a genuine > performance. > and not a rehash. yes, exactly. > > boy, it is so annoying when an artist will release a record that > sounds > exactly like the last release: the sensitive song, the funny song, > the song > with the accordion, the song with the guest male vocalist.... > Susan Werner > is SO admirable that she continues to be imaginative and creative > in a world > where "the machine' wants a repeat performance of last year. Amen, John, A-MEN!!! HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ End of believers-digest V11 #8 ****************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- -------------------------- This has been a posting from the Susan Werner believers-digest To unsubscribe send mail to Majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe believers-digest" in the body of the message