From: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org (believers-digest) To: believers-digest@smoe.org Subject: believers-digest V11 #4 Reply-To: believers@smoe.org Sender: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk believers-digest Saturday, January 20 2007 Volume 11 : Number 004 In Today's believer's digest: ----------------- [none] ["Charlie Sweeney" ] my bad [] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 06:22:02 -0500 From: "Charlie Sweeney" Subject: [none] Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.180]) by smoe.org (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l0J4o6gU009507 for ; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 23:50:08 -0500 (EST)Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id a25so180707pyi for ; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 20:50:02 -0800 (PST)DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:content-type:message-id :from:subject:date:to:x-mailer; b=Zjr1YKUB853fV7Gl7usvzolzzRMTHSW7tSoH/gXN9HJXOVlXP1hibZdcZB/oIcguszF2 hJ5FWbedwyYuZzvSW0lrWDj7ULphuzHlp8MwW/cwRxUFMHawSRT81RURy/d2jd2VIJCVv6 pQDnWUKS6oVAydriKVXmhhPxO0EsR3LVw=Received: by 10.35.41.14 with SMTP id t14mr2981122pyj.1169182202254; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 20:50:02 -0800 (PST)Received: from ?192.168.1.6? ( [70.184.217.17]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id f79sm1153030pyh.2007.01.18.20.49.58; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 20:50:01 -0800 (PST)Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2)In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"Message-Id: From: "Tracy J. Wells" Subject: Re: Probably NotDate: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 22:49:52 -0600To: Believers Mail List X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2)X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.5 (2006-08-29) on jane.smoe.orgX-Spam-Status: No, score=1.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_OBFUSCATE_05_10 autolearn=no version=3.1.5X-Spam-Level: *X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.4/2466/Thu Jan 18 18:49:11 2007 on smoe.orgX-Virus-Status: CleanX-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (smoe.org [199.201.145.78]); Thu, 18 Jan 2007 23:50:14 -0500 (EST)X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.97c-p1X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Hi Bob, Before I go into this response, you should know a little context about me... I introduced myself to the list when I joined back in Sept or something, but some of you may have forgotten... I'm an intern with the Episcopal Diocese of Nebraska in a program for young adults interesting in considering ordained ministry. I recently graduated from divinity school in Boston with a master of theological studies, and spent my time there studying world religions and interfaith dialogue. I am a liberal, "progressive" Christian, but with a history that includes some time spent as a pretty conservative evangelical and with friends and family in that category. In many ways I feel that the lot I have been given in life is to try to bridge differences and divides -- between South (where I grew up) and North (where I lived during divinity school), between evangelical and liberal Christians, between people of different faiths, races, cultures, etc. I say this because it's sort of important in understanding where I'm coming from in my response to the "religion" themed songs of Susan's new album... obviously I'm sort of immediately interested in anything having to do with religion since that's what I've studied in school for seven years and since it's very meaningful to me personally as well.. so I apologize for going off on a total philosophical rambling here... :o) ANYWAY -- to respond -- I know where you're coming from with the concerns over the new album, but I think there are a lot more "religious people" out there who can appreciate a little humorous critique/criticism and/or thoughtful exploration of the complexities surrounding faith and religion (myself included) than there are folks who want to "hang all them atheists." And this coming from someone who grew up in the South and now lives in Nebraska. I've known my share of folks who aren't too fond of "the atheists" (and you're right about their very INCLUSIVE (haha) definition of that term), but I think even some of them might appreciate some of the songs on this new album -- at least the ones I've heard so far. "Help Somebody" is fantastic, for example -- there's nothing in that song that wouldn't be perfect to sing in a worship service, even. And I'm pretty sure that almost everyone I know in the Episcopal Church, for example, would LOVE this new album. (In fact, I plan to really hype it to all my church friends once it is released.) As I think I've said before on this list (months and months ago when someone wrote in with a concert review/report), I always thought Susan was selling herself a bit short to refer to this project as "agnostic gospel" songs... maybe that's where she's coming from, I don't know, but I think the songs (again, at least the ones I've heard so far) are more about faith than that nomer gives them credit -- so I was glad to see that the title she went for on the album gave a little more homage to faith, however tongue-in-cheek ("The Gospel Truth") -- at least it doesn't say 'agnostic' in the title (which I was afraid might be an immediate turn-off to some). Now, will this offend some dyed-in-the-wool evangelicals? (her titling the album "The Gospel Truth," some of the lyrics in some of the songs, etc) Of course it will. But let's be honest -- how many dyed-in-the-wool evangelicals are really plugged into the folk scene in the first place? They'll probably never come across Susan's music. And, on some level -- so what if it offends them? I mean, you're never going to make everyone happy, and I think the need for this kind of exploration of faith in music is greater than the concern that she might alienate some people with this album. And as far as worrying that some people might say mean things to her -- I think she's thick-skinned enough to handle it ;o) Unfortunately, that's par for the course if you're saying anything that doesn't just tow the party line. And to be honest, I'm glad to see some kind of exploration of faith in folk music that isn't just about religion-bashing. My experience of the folk scene has been that it is primarily a bunch of hippie, free spirit types who are generally very antagonistic toward religion in any form. I know that's a generalization and a stereotype, but it is definitely the general feeling I've gotten through many different folk events. The ANGER and BITTERNESS I have sensed in crowds in places like Falcon Ridge whenever anyone brings up anything about religion really disturbs me, actually. It seems like these kinds of events often serve as a kind of catharsis for people to express all their resentments toward religion and religious people. And, to me, this "all religious people should be taken out and shot" attitude is just as disturbing as the "we should hang all them atheists" attitude. Both are rooted in a DEEP lack of understanding of the group that they are demonizing. To me it seems these people are angry at religion or dismissive of religion largely on the basis of the religious extremists that are given so much news airtime, often without any real knowledge of the reality of what many religious people's lives look like. Granted, I haven't heard all the songs yet, but I am hopeful that Susan's exploration of the subject will be more nuanced than that. I would expect nothing less from her insightful and reflective style of songwriting. For me personally, I am so excited and "foaming at the mouth" about this new album precisely because it IS about the subject of faith (or no faith) from a thoughtful and complex angle... and because it expresses some of my own frustrations or whatnot with faith... I LOVE her alternative Lord's prayer song, for example -- "deliver us from those who think they're you" -- this is PERFECT!!!! I can say that just as heartily as someone deeply rooted within the church as some atheist or agnostic person could say it. In fact, I think that should be an official prayer OF the church -- 'deliver us from those who think they're you'!! To me, authentic faith is about humility and admitting the we DON'T have all the answers -- that God is bigger than all of us and beyond our understanding. I'm deeply skeptical of any religious understanding that attempts to put God in a box, and I think it's those same kinds of ideas that are coming out through some of Susan's songs. Now, I could just be projecting my own ideas onto her work, esp. since I've only heard 3 of the new songs and maybe all the rest of them have a very different tone or something, I don't know. But so far, from what I've heard, I am just SO THANKFUL that someone is finally expressing in song some of my own complex emotions toward faith and the church. So I say "to hell with" those who will be offended by this -- it will be giving voice to an alternative perspective that I would be willing to be will resonate with a LOT of very different kind of people. Anyway, that's just my two cents. I'll be sure to give a full report after the concert and let you all know what my thoughts are after I hear more! (If you can take another LONG email from me!!!) God bless, all! :o)Tracy---Tracy J. Wells, M.T.S.http://www.tracywells.com803-528-1003 (c) HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 07:20:42 -0600 (CST) From: Subject: my bad Hi all, Sorry about the hash at the beginning of the message. I was flying this AM and I used the wrong procedure to forward the bounced message to he list. The message was too long (the server is set up that way to prevent forwarding of entire digests, etc) Please remember, if you have any doubts about the length of your message, break it into parts, and it will go through. Raising a teenager is not easy, and occupies a whole lot of my time, so I don't always catch these. If you have questions, or problems, you can reach me at my always accessible email gitarguy48@gmail.com Have a great weekend! Charlie HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ End of believers-digest V11 #4 ****************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- -------------------------- This has been a posting from the Susan Werner believers-digest To unsubscribe send mail to Majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe believers-digest" in the body of the message