From: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org (believers-digest) To: believers-digest@smoe.org Subject: believers-digest V10 #26 Reply-To: believers@smoe.org Sender: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk believers-digest Tuesday, April 11 2006 Volume 10 : Number 026 In Today's believer's digest: ----------------- Re: A worthy cause to support -- houseconcerts in danger... ["Ron Rosen"] Re: A worthy cause to support -- houseconcerts in danger... [meredith Subject: Re: A worthy cause to support -- houseconcerts in danger... > Is the "Kim Watterson" in this incident the same Kim Watterson of lawfirm > ReedSmith, who obtained a prelim injuntion on behalf of a young rapper who > had been expelled from school due to lyric content he wrote at home and > posted on the 'Net? I believe the court ruled in that such lyrics were > protected by the First Amendment. . . and isn't that what Cindy Harris' > case is about? How ironic, should this be the same Watterson. Don't know, but I would assume so. There are probably not a lot of Kim Wattersons who specialize in civil rights law. I was wondering if the Township also bans Tupperware parties and the like. I sent Cindy an email posing that question. If they don't ban such parties, they are not treating the house concerts equally. If they do ban such parties, I wonder what the enforcement is like. It sounds like this case really results from some intolerant neighbors. It will be interesting to see where it goes, but I wonder if governments try to interfere with house concerts in other places, or if this is an isolated case. HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:50:33 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: A worthy cause to support -- houseconcerts in danger... Hi, Ron Rosen wrote: > I was wondering if the Township also bans Tupperware parties and the > like. I sent Cindy an email posing that question. If they don't ban > such parties, they are not treating the house concerts equally. If they > do ban such parties, I wonder what the enforcement is like. I have been following this case since the beginning -- Cindy is on the house concert presenters' mailing list I'm on. IIRC this question came up back when the initial complaint was filed. I don't recall for sure but I think it came up that Tupperware parties are ok for some reason. Which makes zero sense, since those *are* business ventures and house concerts aren't. > It sounds like this case really results from some intolerant neighbors. Intolerant neighbors, and a local zoning board on a massive power trip. Another house concert presenter in Texas actually decided to move to a different place rather than keep on dealing with the harassment he got from his Homeowner's Association. Lots of other presenters have had run-ins with City Hall and Homeowner's Associations ... Cindy is just the one to make a Federal case out of it. It should be interesting, especially now that American civil liberties are eroding more with each passing day. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the ruling were against the plaintiffs, and all of a sudden you can't have people over to your house any more without risking prosecution... - -- =============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth =============================================== hear at the HOMe House Concert Series http://hom.smoe.org =============================================== HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:07:12 -0700 From: "Ron Rosen" Subject: Re: A worthy cause to support -- houseconcerts in danger... > Another house concert presenter in Texas actually decided to move to a > different place rather than keep on dealing with the harassment he got > from his Homeowner's Association. Lots of other presenters have had > run-ins with City Hall and Homeowner's Associations ... Cindy is just the > one to make a Federal case out of it. I sent Cindy's email to my bother-in-law who is a fairly high-powered attorney in Pittsburgh, and who lives very near O'Hara Township. (Susan's bother David may have once worked at his firm.) He said that he did not see it as a civil rights issue, but instead a residential use issue. In other words, the Township has the power to regulate commercial activities in residential areas. In this case, the fact that the public is invited is probably the problem. I suspect that Tupperware parties are ok because only friends of the homeowner are invited, and I suspect that if you held a political fundraiser at your house and Susan performed, it would still be ok because you would only invite people from a political party list. It would probably be ok to establish a "folk music society" and hold concerts for the members and their guests, as long as you did not openly invite the public by advertising in newspapers or on the net. My brother-in-law does not think it's a free speech issue because the township is not saying that these people cannot sing in the township, it's only mandating the time and place that a public concert can occur. HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 02:23:54 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: A worthy cause to support -- houseconcerts in danger... Hi, > In this case, the fact that > the public is invited is probably the problem. I suspect that > Tupperware parties are ok because only friends of the homeowner are > invited, and I suspect that if you held a political fundraiser at your > house and Susan performed, it would still be ok because you would only > invite people from a political party list. It would probably be ok to > establish a "folk music society" and hold concerts for the members and > their guests, as long as you did not openly invite the public by > advertising in newspapers or on the net. But this is precisely what Cindy is doing. She has an email list of friends to whom she sends the invitations for her music parties, and doesn't openly invite the public by advertising anywhere. And she doesn't make any money whatsoever from the parties (as opposed to Tupperware parties, where the host(ess) makes money from the sales that take place there). > My brother-in-law does not think it's a free speech issue because the > township is not saying that these people cannot sing in the township, > it's only mandating the time and place that a public concert can occur. But it's not technically a public concert. It's an invitation-only private party at which the attendees are invited (but by no means required) to pitch in to help pay for the entertainment, in the exact same way as people convening at a private home to watch the Super Bowl might pitch in to help pay for the pizza. In this way the township *is* saying that these people cannot sing in the township, because there really isn't another complaint for them to make. In the current political climate it's not a terribly far leap to make from this to banning public gatherings outright. I think it's an important precedent for Cindy to be attempting to set, in this day and age. - -- =============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth =============================================== hear at the HOMe House Concert Series http://hom.smoe.org =============================================== HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ End of believers-digest V10 #26 ******************************* ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- -------------------------- This has been a posting from the Susan Werner believers-digest To unsubscribe send mail to Majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe believers-digest" in the body of the message