From: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org (believers-digest) To: believers-digest@smoe.org Subject: believers-digest V5 #289 Reply-To: believers@smoe.org Sender: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk believers-digest Tuesday, January 1 2002 Volume 05 : Number 289 In Today's believer's digest: ----------------- Quick comment [Anthony Marbuke ] Fat wallets [Anthony Marbuke ] Re: Fat wallets ["Charisse D. Lowe" ] Re: Quick comment ["Beth McConnell" ] Re: Quick comment ["Ron Rosen" ] Re: Fat wallets (and heads). ["Ron Rosen" ] A Little Humor from Dame Edna ["Ron Rosen" ] Hey Charlie ["Ron Rosen" ] happy 2002 [meredith ] Big, Big, Big, Mother of a Car ["Fake Susan Fan" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 12:55:08 -0800 (PST) From: Anthony Marbuke Subject: Quick comment Anthony, you apparently don't like Susan's cd's, nor do you enjoy her live performances. What the hell are you doing here? We've all listened to you whine for several weeks now. So go join the Dar list, and get the fuck off of this one. Just two quick comments for this poster. 1. I think Susan's three previous CDs were magnificent and pure genius. They made me a fan and I've seen her perform more than a dozen times where often she is awesome and beyond compare. That said, however, I think (along with many true Susan fans) that her most recent CD is terrible and her live performances lately have not been up to her usual exceptional best. She seems tired in concert, perhaps from too many dates on the road, and not as witty, humorous, and engaging as in the past. This commentary makes me an objective fan and not an obsessive idol worshipper like so many on this list. 2. Blow me you asshole. Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 13:25:59 -0800 (PST) From: Anthony Marbuke Subject: Fat wallets reading all the back posts over this week I noticed a line about performers considering the audience to be walking checkbooks... I thought about this. Seems like the old struggle about art and money. Art is and should not be about money or priviledge, yet without people paying to see performances or to go to gallerys, buying paintings or recordings etc... there would be no art. Artists have to eat, buy guitar strings, buy paint, travel, live somewhere etc. So yes, our checkbooks do go to help the artist be an artist. But, how do they look at us (the patrons) ? Simona's post called Walking Checkbooks raises many good points but the answer to the question she poses above ("How do they look at us?") is often unfortunately quite sad. Most performers have little respect for their fans and treat them with a form of contempt that is unique in the business world. The axiom "The Customer Is Always Right" doesn't apply to the music industry. Smaller venue performers tend to treat their fans a bit more kindly than large arena acts but the common theme seems to be the same. You pay me, I play in that order. You don't pay me, you don't hear me and my art no matter how much you may enjoy it. I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why almost every concert I go to starts late.... Most artists perform, write, record, and tour not to "further their art" or enrich society or make fans happy. They do it to pay bills and eat. I'm sure many nights that you see Susan in some some half-empty bar or coffeehouse in the middle of nowhere she'd rather be at home or with friends or family without a guitar in her hand. But she's there because her landlord or mortgage company, VISA cards, or creditors force her to be there. It is hard to keep your heart on your art when you know the alternative to performing AIN'T I LONELY TONIGHT for the 18,000th time is an eviction notice and a repo man taking your car in the middle of the night. For the right price, Susan (or any other performer who tours to survive) will show up at your house and sing "99 Bottles of Beer on the Wall" from start to finish and even perform HICKORY DICKORY DOCK as an encore. Art be damned when there is good money to be made from fans with fat wallets. Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 16:04:01 -0600 From: "Charisse D. Lowe" Subject: Re: Fat wallets Anthony, I am sorry that you will engage yet another year with such a jaded, cynical attitude about performers. If you have never been a performer then I suggest you state all of these sad views with the disclaimer "it is my opinion...". Concerts start late because today people seem to think the world waits for them. I have watched people walk into a theatre where Emmylou Harris was playing - yes- on stage and mid-song, and call out to their friends. People are rude. I won't call you names because I think it is boorish, and I won't tell you to do anything biologically to yourself. But I will say that I'm sorry your attitude on the music world is so bleak. You are quite wrong in many of your comments. Revel in misery if you must. The rest of us on this list are relatively positive, and not all "Susan can do no wrong" fanatics. Have a Happy New Year, Anthony. Charisse HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 17:02:47 -0600 From: "Beth McConnell" Subject: Re: Quick comment I generally welcome a whole bunch of opinions and try to stay open to hearing them, but it seems to me that there is a pretty serious breakdown in communication with these latest posts. I am respectfully requesting that those with hot tempers wait at least a day before posting anything that might possibly be considered offensive. Consider whether it is *truly* worth something important to say what you're going to say. Not only does it make you look bad when you let your goat get got, but it's really embarrassing to watch you do it _way_ out in public. I also don't like to watch people resort to name-calling, but thats just my own personal preference. Swap phone numbers and swear at each other until you're purple - maybe do it on your own dime/time though? I'm no listmommy; I can only ask as a fellow list member that you be long with your patience and big with your forgiveness. Besides, I'm pretty sure it's true what my Grandmother told me a long time ago ... keep making that face and it'll freeze that way. Thanks. Beth (snipped, and some space given for those of us who really are tired of seeing the nastiness) : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : and get : the : fuck off of this one. : Just two quick comments for this poster. : : 2. Blow me you asshole. HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 17:45:55 -0800 From: "Ron Rosen" Subject: Re: Quick comment > 1. I think Susan's three previous CDs were > magnificent and pure genius. They made me a fan and > I've seen her perform more than a dozen times where > often she is awesome and beyond compare. That's funny, even I don't think they were that good. Maybe you need a bit of lithium - you seem given to extremes. > That said, > however, I think (along with many true Susan fans) Why the necessity for the adjective "true," as if you are somehow distinguishing yourself from other Susan fans? I don't think I've ever met a "fake" Susan fan, although I've met a few trolls in my day and a few of the body parts that you mentioned at the end of your post. > She seems tired in concert, perhaps > from too many dates on the road, and not as witty, > humorous, and engaging as in the past. I would think any room that you're in, Anthony, would drain the energy out of anyone. Assuming that you're right, what do you propose to do about it? And how many times do you need to repeat it? Why don't you write to Susan's manager, Larry Goldfarb, and complain to him, or better yet, offer some constructive solutions. >This > commentary makes me an objective fan and not an > obsessive idol worshipper like so many on this list. If I were to call you the below-mentioned body part, I guess that would make me an objective observer of humanity. You have set up a straw dog Anthony, and now you are beating it to death. Your self praise is so charming. > 2. Blow me you asshole. Res ipsa loquitur. HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 18:17:29 -0800 From: "Ron Rosen" Subject: Re: Fat wallets (and heads). > Most performers have little respect for their fans and > treat them with a form of contempt that is unique in > the business world. You are truly a brilliant analyst of the music scene, Anthony. >The axiom "The Customer Is Always > Right" doesn't apply to the music industry. But it certainly does among car salesmen and telephone companies. And no, Anthony, you still don't get to pick the set list. >Smaller > venue performers tend to treat their fans a bit more > kindly than large arena acts but the common theme > seems to be the same. You pay me, I play in that > order. You don't pay me, you don't hear me and my art > no matter how much you may enjoy it. That's a common theme in the world, Anthony: "You pay me, I give you goods or services. You don't pay me, I don't give you goods or services." Yep, no matter how much you may enjoy our Mercedes, Anthony, we won't give you one unless you pay. >I'm still > waiting for someone to explain to me why almost every > concert I go to starts late.... Probably they're wondering where the creepy vibe is coming from and hoping it will dissipate before the show starts. > Most artists perform, write, record, and tour not to > "further their art" or enrich society or make fans > happy. They do it to pay bills and eat. You are an idiot, Anthony. (Adjective withheld.) What do you do for a living, Anthony? Certainly, you're not in it for the money. All the folk artists I know are filthy rich, much better off than if they'd done something else with their time. >I'm sure > many nights that you see Susan in some some half-empty > bar or coffeehouse in the middle of nowhere she'd > rather be at home or with friends or family without a > guitar in her hand. But she's there because her > landlord or mortgage company, VISA cards, or creditors > force her to be there. I told my boss today that I'd rather be at home or with friends. He said "Fine, but you won't get paid." And your point is what? Yes, Susan writes songs and performs them for a living. That doesn't give her the luxury of just playing when she's in the mood. Besides, Anthony, if she just played when she wanted to, true fans like you would never know when to go to her shows, because she just might not show up. >It is hard to keep your heart > on your art when you know the alternative to > performing AIN'T I LONELY TONIGHT for the 18,000th > time is an eviction notice and a repo man taking your > car in the middle of the night. That's it. > For the right price, Susan (or any other performer who > tours to survive) will show up at your house and sing > "99 Bottles of Beer on the Wall" from start to finish > and even perform HICKORY DICKORY DOCK as an encore. > Art be damned when there is good money to be made from > fans with fat wallets. What is your point, Anthony? The above paragraph really says nothing. What would you have Susan do? Let's see, the new album sucks, Susan's live shows are tired, humorless, and predictible, and she will do anything for money (except let you write her set lists.) I guess that's the point, and you've made it. But this is a good idea. Charlie, who much would Susan charge to come over to my house and play there aforementioned two songs for me? Heck, if she would only come to my house, she wouldn't have to play at all - music, I mean. Have you had enough attention for today, Anthony? Did I tell you what a kick I get out of responding to your posts? How old are you, Anthony? And how do you occupy yourself when you are putting together these brilliant commentaries? HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 18:37:32 -0800 From: "Ron Rosen" Subject: A Little Humor from Dame Edna They are having a Dame Edna marathon on the Trio Network tonight. I really enjoyed the following from her: "My mother was worried because my husband, Norm, wasn't Jewish. Actually, neither was I. In fact, neither was she. She was worried that none of us were Jewish" As the Beatles used to say, Happy Goo Year Everyone! (You've just won a trip to Denver and five others!!) HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 18:58:23 -0800 From: "Ron Rosen" Subject: Hey Charlie Please don't banish Anthony for saying, "BMYA." He's too much fun. HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 01:38:35 -0500 From: meredith Subject: happy 2002 Hi, Just popping in to wish everyone a very happy 2002. May it not suck nearly as much as 2001 did. I'm gathering there's some nasty stuff happening on this list ... fortunately I've used my mailer's filtering feature so I've managed never to see the worst of it. I'd recommend others do the same. Happy new year! ======================================= Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth "an eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind" -- mahatma gandhi ======================================= Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://www.smoe.org/meth/muzak.html HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 23:34:36 -0800 From: "Fake Susan Fan" Subject: Big, Big, Big, Mother of a Car I was driving around Pasadena tonight and I saw some of the Rose Parade floats heading down the streets to their starting positions. On of them was a big, big, big, Cadillac convertible. I'd say it was about 45 feet long, 15 feet wide, and 15 feet high. Looked to be about a 1956 Caddy. If you watch the parade, look for the City of Los Angeles float. HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ End of believers-digest V5 #289 ******************************* --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------- This has been a posting from the Susan Werner believers-digest To unsubscribe send mail to Majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe believers-digest" in the body of the message