From: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org (believers-digest) To: believers-digest@smoe.org Subject: believers-digest V5 #227 Reply-To: believers@smoe.org Sender: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk believers-digest Friday, November 2 2001 Volume 05 : Number 227 In Today's believer's digest: ----------------- Red Light Cafe ["Richard Hill" ] people hurting people [Sdgold60@aol.com] people hurting people [Sdgold60@aol.com] Humor, Politics,criticism etc ["David S. Kaskela" ] Four Corners Show [Kris Richardson ] Re: Humor, Politics,criticism etc [Simona Loberant ] show lengths [Harry A Keates ] JAP ["john vavrek" ] Re: show lengths [Kris Richardson ] CD Length, Singles [John DeFord ] Re: Humor, Politics,criticism etc (2) ["David S. Kaskela" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 05:09:10 -0600 From: "Richard Hill" Subject: Red Light Cafe Sherlyn asked: <> Here is a partial answer from a friend near Atlanta who has booked/promoted a gig or two at the Red Light. Says he: <> 'Course that doesn't answer the question of whether Susan will be there on the 17th or not, but ... ~Richard Hill HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 06:36:43 EST From: Sdgold60@aol.com Subject: people hurting people sometimes jokes are NOT funny if no one is safe with you.. is it okay to make fun of blacks, gays .. straights.. people with one eye... short people.. people named RON ron you are out of line - it doesnt matter if its a jewish person - as a jew in these times.. where Jews are more vunerable.. and being accused of many negative acts by the terrorists of the world.. as a jew you have a responsibility not to feed the cycle of hatred... that joke is no appropriate and NOT funny... its insulting a group of people... no justifcation is acceptable i would prefer to discuss this with you OFF list... but you didnt respond to my mail....to you sharon... the way i write and style of writing is not up for discussion actually thanks charles I danced a lot of nights until the grass was wet It wasn't over yet Round 'bout 3AM you made a friend And I followed a lot of idle crazy thoughts because It's where the meaning was Though I tried to find it every other way HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 06:38:47 EST From: Sdgold60@aol.com Subject: people hurting people sometimes jokes are NOT funny if no one is safe with you.. is it okay to make fun of blacks, gays .. straights.. people with one eye... short people.. people named RON ron you are out of line - it doesnt matter if its a jewish person - as a jew in these times.. where Jews are more vunerable.. and being accused of many negative acts by the terrorists of the world.. as a jew you have a responsibility not to feed the cycle of hatred... that joke is no appropriate and NOT funny... its insulting a group of people... no justifcation is acceptable sharon... I danced a lot of nights until the grass was wet It wasn't over yet Round 'bout 3AM you made a friend And I followed a lot of idle crazy thoughts because It's where the meaning was Though I tried to find it every other way HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 08:39:47 -0500 From: "David S. Kaskela" Subject: Humor, Politics,criticism etc Hi All Maybe Charlie needs to post a list of "SAFE TOPICS & HOW TO WRITE ABOUT THEM" (By the way- that was a joke for those without enough sense of humor to recognize it as such) Lets see- Politics OUT Humor OUT Management OUT Criticism OUT Personality OUT Spellcheck IN Conformity IN NNF IN Fashion IN (maybe) Pick a Subject Then impose YOUR standards on the rest of us No wonder I haven't posted since my 9-11-01 post. I've read everything posted since but refrained from expressing myself. NO MORE!! The list used to be a fun place. You never knew what to expect. Lighten up people. Get a sense of humor. Yhe world is not such a grim place. The list doesn't have to be either! Or maybe I should take an extended self imposed vacation from the list. Try to get a better persrective on my life and my place in the world. Or- maybe YOU should. If you read this post it means it has successfully passed TTP (the thought police),TSC(the subject censors),TLCS (the literary critics society), FBI, CIA, NSC, DIA, NSA and the ASPCH(The American Society for Politically Humor). If you got a blank post or one heavily redlined (or blacked out) I ran afoul of someone! Dave (who's been afraid to write because I'm a Sensative New Age Man who Takes Criticism Ooorly and Doesn't Play Well With Others and... well- you get the idea) HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Nov 01 09:34:09 -0500 From: Kris Richardson Subject: Four Corners Show Just a quick note to say Susan had a fabulous show last night in New London. Susan seemed very jovial, moreso than I've seen in a long time. She's also playing that new Jenkins guitar that sounds incredible! After the show she spent a long time chatting with us and holding & kissing our 12 week old daughter Grace. Yup, Grace made it through her first SW gig (well, she did sleep through the first set). She's now officially dubbed Auntie Suze. Kris p.s. Oops, I forgot the important stuff... Susan was wearing black pants and a silk leopard-skin blouse. p.p.s. Good meeting you Mosh if you're out there! HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 06:38:48 -0800 (PST) From: Simona Loberant Subject: Re: Humor, Politics,criticism etc I sort of agree with David.... this list used to be fun. One thing is that it also has to respect that certain things such as ethnic jokes are not fun for many people. I personally have issues with JAP jokes.... being that I am a jewish women. And I also had issue with the fact that an email I wrote about a scrapbook turned into yet another fight on this list. Now I must make my titles more subdued and to the point (no more trys at humour here!). This all makes me think of something that Bill Cosby said years ago. He said that if you take out the racial slur from a joke (i.e. JAP, jap, queer, the n word for black, polock etc....) and you don't find it funny anymore then its just not a joke. A real joke is funny wihtout having to offend or put down anyone else. As for discussion on managment, career decisions etc.... that should be all right... in moderation. When it becomes deragotary and negative towards people then it goes too far. When a person has a true complaint against the work of another person then they need to take it directly to that individual. Batting around complaints and insults back and forth does nothimg for the greater good of anything. Its a shame that so much negativity has resulted from this list in just the past couple of weeks. I hope that it can be calmer on the list from now on. The great thing about this list, from my perspective, is that this is a bunch of people who vary in age, geographical location, occupations etc.... yet we all have a common love for music. Whether we are uber susan werner fans or she is one of many musicians we love it does not matter. Music is such an important part of the lives of the people on this list as well as most people around the world and I cannot imagine a world or my life without music. Since music has brought us together in some sense lets not make it a reason to fight. Its a shame that some people feel that the list has become too negative and that has turned them off from even subscribing or from contributing posts. There are soooo many topics that we can discuss and we should not be limited to just a few in order to keep everything totally neutral. But as intelligent individuals we need to also look at the utility of what we post and consider the reasonable sensitivities of the people who read the list. ~Simona L. "David S. Kaskela" wrote: Hi All Maybe Charlie needs to post a list of "SAFE TOPICS & HOW TO WRITE ABOUT THEM" (By the way- that was a joke for those without enough sense of humor to recognize it as such) Lets see- Politics OUT Humor OUT Management OUT Criticism OUT Personality OUT Spellcheck IN Conformity IN NNF IN Fashion IN (maybe) Pick a Subject Then impose YOUR standards on the rest of us No wonder I haven't posted since my 9-11-01 post. I've read everything posted since but refrained from expressing myself. NO MORE!! The list used to be a fun place. You never knew what to expect. Lighten up people. Get a sense of humor. Yhe world is not such a grim place. The list doesn't have to be either! Or maybe I should take an extended self imposed vacation from the list. Try to get a better persrective on my life and my place in the world. Or- maybe YOU should. If you read this post it means it has successfully passed TTP (the thought police),TSC(the subject censors),TLCS (the literary critics society), FBI, CIA, NSC, DIA, NSA and the ASPCH(The American Society for Politically Humor). If you got a blank post or one heavily redlined (or blacked out) I ran afoul of someone! Dave (who's been afraid to write because I'm a Sensative New Age Man who Takes Criticism Ooorly and Doesn't Play Well With Others and... well- you get the idea) HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com Simona L. Loberant http://www.geocities.com/loberant "Every now and then go away, even briefly, have a little relaxation, for when you come back to your work your judgment will be surer; since to remain constantly at work will cause you to lose power." **Leonardo da Vinci Find a job, post your resume on Yahoo! Careers. HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 09:56:17 -0500 From: Harry A Keates Subject: show lengths Hi all, can anyone tell me how long Susan's shows have been on this recent tour? In particular, I am interested in the shows where she does not play with Ellis Paul. thanks! Harry ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 07:02:06 -0800 From: "john vavrek" Subject: JAP you're one funny guy, Ron. keep your chin up (isn't that an old boxing saying?) keep up the good work (isn't that an old slavemaster saying?) keep the faith, and don't let down your guard.... this is America, the melting pot. we are all Americans now. be it Native, conqueror, immigrant, even illegal, rich, poor (didn't there used to be a middle class?), jewish, christian, islamic, agnostic, even catholic, queer or straight, woman or man. if we can't laugh at ourselves it's sad. perhaps joking about the differences perpetuates prejudices in some people, but my feeling is (and has always been) that it shows us how ridiculous prejudice is in the first place. (i'm thinking of the Smothers Brothers, "my old man's a Negro, what do you think about that?" answered with Tommy's inevitable, "no wonder mom always liked you best!") freedom of speech, yes. express everything, love, unhappiness, anger, humor, disagreement. but with respect for all of us. and patience for us who are a little slower readers than others. like none of knew all that anyway.... i haven't been able to listen to music here for a week! my kitchen floor is now beautiful tile, the appliances are out of the dining space, the dining stuff is out of living room space, and i can access my stereo gear. ...and my knees are killing me (yes, i did it myself!) tonight i'm cooking dinner (for the first time in over a week!)(and i LOVE to cook) for a friend and we're having a Susan-fest, because she was out of town when Suze and Ellis were here last month. peace, as always, john in oregon HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Nov 01 10:40:53 -0500 From: Kris Richardson Subject: Re: show lengths I thought last night's show was a little shorter than usual. Just one set with a two song encore. The whole show was about 1:15 I think. Kris >Hi all, > >can anyone tell me how long Susan's shows have been on this recent tour? >In particular, I am interested in the shows where she does not play with >Ellis Paul. > >thanks! > >Harry HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 10:20:23 -0800 From: John DeFord Subject: CD Length, Singles Just some random thoughts here... I don't think there is any standard, formal or otherwise, or concerted effort as to how long a CD should be. I think the main consideration, despite the widespread use of the 'random' button on CD players, is to have a set of music that can be taken as a whole, and I'm not just talking about concept pieces. There is a lot of thought put into track sequencing and flow and this is where good songs can get left off of a CD because it just didn't quite fit. I have noticed, in my own completely unscientific anecdotal sampling of CD's that I can think of that I bought recently off the top of my head while I am here at work and not at home where I could look at some of my voluminous CD collection, that CDs from 'jam bands' (Widespread Panic, String Cheese Incident, Bruce Hornsby, etc.) generally are longer than average. Your mileage may vary. As well, with the same caveat above, the average classical CD tends to be longer than the average Pop/Rock/Folk/Alternative/Polka/R&B/C&W/Celtic/Tuvan nose humming/House/Trip-Hop/Rockabilly/Chant/Bluegrass/Bossa Nova/Jazz/Acid Jazz/etc. CD. Track sequencing is one of those subtle arts that mostly goes undetected, but you can tell bad track sequencing if you find that you can't get through an entire CD of an artist that you like, especially if you find that you are bored or annoyed. If you then put that CD into the five CD blender and hit random, and you find that you like every song on that CD, that is a pretty good indication that track sequencing and/or most of the songs have a similar key, rhythm, instrumentation, etc.. There can be too much of a good thing, if everything sounds the same. For example, take the band Boston.... please. ;-) I think that is one reason that there are hidden tracks on a lot of CDs. It's a way of having some more music on the CD and having it be separate from the album as a whole. I *do* think that the record companies squeeze every last cent out of dedicated fans for some artists by having multiple releases of singles with alternate and/or live tracks. With that said, I have to say that for myself, when I do make those discoveries at the record store, the feeling I have is more of thrill of the hunt, than it is feeling victimized.... After all, I am the consumer and I am there looking and hoping to find something to consume. I don't personally feel like I have been ripped off if a CD of new music is around 45 minutes. To me, only buying CDs that clock in at 70 minutes would be like buying a painting because it has the most paint on it per square inch. I know that no one was really saying that... At least I don't think so. So, this duck goes into a bar and asks the bartender a question. The bartender replies. This enrages the duck, which causes the platypus sitting next to the duck to say something really funny. Cheers, John ........... Sometimes the beauty of life John ...... Hits like lightning .... DeFord Washing everything clear ........... -Shawn Colvin jdef@yahoo.com HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 17:59:57 -0500 From: "David S. Kaskela" Subject: Re: Humor, Politics,criticism etc (2) >If you read this post it means it has successfully passed TTP (the thought >police),TSC(the subject censors),TLCS (the literary critics society), FBI, >CIA, NSC, DIA, NSA and the ASPCH(The American Society for Politically >Humor). If you got a blank post or one heavily redlined (or blacked out) I >ran afoul of someone! Looks like the ICC (that's the Intelligence Continuity Committee) struck removing "Correct" from the ASPCH definition. Part of a conspiracy to make me look a fool...and remove my credibility as a reformed lapsed overposter!! >Dave (who's been afraid to write because I'm a Sensative New Age Man who >Takes Criticism Ooorly and Doesn't Play Well With Others and... well- you >get the idea) And what the H--- is Ooorly. Damned Logitech keyboard- probably doesn't like my two fingered assault. Or maybe it was the CPSNAM... Curiouser and curiouser Just sign me Dave (an obvious pseudonym-nobody's name is Dave) > >HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org >Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs >http://worldcafecds.com HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 22:27:06 -0500 From: meredith Subject: Re: show lengths Hi, Kris commented: >I thought last night's show was a little shorter than usual. Just one set >with a two song encore. The whole show was about 1:15 I think. That's a pretty standard length for a Susan show. ======================================= Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth "an eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind" -- mahatma gandhi ======================================= Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://www.smoe.org/meth/muzak.html HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ End of believers-digest V5 #227 ******************************* --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------- This has been a posting from the Susan Werner believers-digest To unsubscribe send mail to Majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe believers-digest" in the body of the message