From: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org (believers-digest) To: believers-digest@smoe.org Subject: believers-digest V5 #209 Reply-To: believers@smoe.org Sender: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk believers-digest Tuesday, October 23 2001 Volume 05 : Number 209 In Today's believer's digest: ----------------- Re: A Wacky Idea (Leopard Skin Pillbox Hat) [Sherlyn Koo ] RE: Criminal Acts [Charlie Sweeney ] Re: believers-digest V5 #207 [Loris1127@aol.com] Read this if you want a copy of "New Non-Fiction" [Jeff Wasilko Subject: Re: A Wacky Idea (Leopard Skin Pillbox Hat) Hey folks, Ron said: > Now, if there is no "Do you know what this top is?" portion of the show, > you will > have to be creative and bring it up yourself by saying, "Susan, what's > that animal > you are wearing?" Unfortunately I think that the window of opportunity for this idea (wonderful though it is) has closed. I think the cheetah-print may have been retired - I saw Susan Saturday and Sunday in Berkeley and Santa Cruz respectively, and both times she was wearing a plain black shirt with snazzy New Non-Fiction pants (black with words printed in various sizes all over 'em). She looked great but there was nary a cheetah-spot in sight. Alas. The shows were fantastic also, although I'm sure Susan and Ellis were both exhausted. 7 shows in 5 days? Crazy! They were both total troupers though - the shows were so so so so good and so much fun. I'm actually too tired to do reviews right now, but hopefully I'll be able to find time tomorrow to do that... Back in Seattle after a great but exhausting weekend... sherlyn ps - John from San Jose - nice to meet you, and thanks for everything! pps - Anybody planning on going to the Atlanta show? I might be able to swing that one, since I was planning to be there on the 15th anyhow and Susan's playing on the 17th... don't know how I'm going to get there or where I'm going to stay, but I'll figure something out... HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 06:36:09 EDT From: Sdgold60@aol.com Subject: which shade of black is grey sorry RON.. New York city can only wear ... black.. its written in the citizenship papers.. you move here.. you have to acquire those black turtlenecks and a black leather jacket.. no lepaord.. no cheetah.. no fox... only sable... and you wear it disparagingly on the street.. sharon I danced a lot of nights until the grass was wet It wasn't over yet Round 'bout 3AM you made a friend And I followed a lot of idle crazy thoughts because It's where the meaning was Though I tried to find it every other way HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 04:50:22 -0700 From: "Ron Rosen" Subject: Re: A Wacky Idea (Leopard Skin Pillbox Hat) > Unfortunately I think that the window of opportunity for this idea (wonderful > though it is) has closed. I think the cheetah-print may have been retired - I > saw Susan Saturday and Sunday in Berkeley and Santa Cruz respectively, > and both times she was wearing a plain black shirt with snazzy New > Non-Fiction pants (black with words printed in various sizes all over 'em). > She looked great but there was nary a cheetah-spot in sight. Alas. That is truly interesting that she has finally changed outfits. Why does No. Cal., where I grew up, get all the unique shows? BUT NO, THE WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY HAS NOT PASSED: If Susan shows up in Non-Cheetah attire, all the more funny that several members of the audience do !!! As if to say, "You may abandon the Cheetah, but we won't." HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 07:05:39 -0400 From: "Charisse D. Lowe" Subject: Re: A Wacky Idea (Leopard Skin Pillbox Hat) Perhaps it's nothing more than a laundry issue..... Charisse. - -----Original Message----- From: Ron Rosen To: believers@smoe.org Date: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 7:50 AM Subject: Re: A Wacky Idea (Leopard Skin Pillbox Hat) >> Unfortunately I think that the window of opportunity for this idea (wonderful >> though it is) has closed. I think the cheetah-print may have been retired - I >> saw Susan Saturday and Sunday in Berkeley and Santa Cruz respectively, >> and both times she was wearing a plain black shirt with snazzy New >> Non-Fiction pants (black with words printed in various sizes all over 'em). >> She looked great but there was nary a cheetah-spot in sight. Alas. > >That is truly interesting that she has finally changed outfits. Why does No. Cal., >where I grew up, get all the unique shows? > > BUT NO, THE WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY HAS NOT PASSED: If Susan shows up in Non-Cheetah >attire, all the more funny that several members of the audience do !!! As if to say, >"You may abandon the Cheetah, but we won't." > >HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org >Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs >http://worldcafecds.com HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 09:42:43 -0400 From: strange little woj Subject: Re: A Wacky Idea (Leopard Skin Pillbox Hat) when we last left our heroes, Sherlyn Koo (sherlyn@fl.net.au) exclaimed: >and both times she was wearing a plain black shirt with snazzy New >Non-Fiction pants (black with words printed in various sizes all over 'em). um, what words? woj HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:37:46 EDT From: Rjabalos@aol.com Subject: Criminal Acts In a message dated 10/22/01 5:24:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-believers-digest@smoe.org writes: > <<<<<6. Even the lack of marketing efforts to the members of the Believers > list (her current fans) is startling, even criminal. >>>>>> > > Using the word criminal is hyperbole, inaccurate, and inflammatory to > Although I have years of examples of why Susan's management is crippling her career and denying her greater success, I feel that the decision not to sell her new CD to members of her Believers list is not only the most recent outrage but is truly insulting to her fans here and represents a new low for her already discredited marketing and promotional machine. All the excuses previously given for not doing so are simply nonsense. Anyone who knows anything about the music business and its economics know they are. For those of you without knowledge in this area their reasoning is on the same believability level as a kid in class who explains to their teacher "But my dog ate my homework." The real reason is laziness. It would require effort to address envelopes, stuff CDs into them, and lug everything to the Post Office. Better let the fans (like Ron) turn their apartments and hotel rooms into UPS shipping centers. Susan's fans can wait, buy their CDs at shows, why do we need to exert ourselves on their behalf? This attitude is the height of arrogance. Susan's fans are not only her bread-and-butter but her management's. It is OUR MONEY in CD and ticket sales which keep Susan, Larry, and the whole crew living indoors during the winter and well-fed. They work not only for Susan but for us. The happier we are, the more we spend on Susan. The members of the Believers List are Susan's most die-hard fans, the most loyal audience she has. If any group can be counted on to buy her CDs, see her live in concert, or help in any way with marketing her career, it is us. The ideas fly in Believer postings and between email members on how to help Susan's career, to get the recognition and success we feel she deserves, to promote her songs and products. Again, all this energy and motivation lies untapped by Susan's management, another glaring example of how they miss the boat when it comes to music marketing and promotion. To sum it all up, we fans on the Believers List have waited more than THREE YEARS for a new Susan album, an outrageous length of time for a songwriter and performer as prodigious as Susan. Despite the fact that EVERY other performer with an Internet presence, email list, or website offers their new CDs to their fans prerelease or near-release, we are given a song-and-dance, dog-and-pony show from her management about "poor economic conditions" and "sensitive negotiations" and we are left, once again, in the cold. I view the decision not to sell the CDs to us as poor customer service at a minimum, and simply a really stupid marketing decision. But the idea of making up absurd excuses and covering for the real reason is a slap across our faces by the very people we keep employed with our fan dollars. All those involved in this decision should truly be ashamed of themselves. HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 07:43:23 -0700 From: RAVEN@igc.org Subject: Re: A Wacky Idea (Leopard Skin Pillbox Hat) At 09:42 10/23/2001 (-0400), strange little woj wrote: >when we last left our heroes, Sherlyn Koo (sherlyn@fl.net.au) exclaimed: > >and both times she was wearing a plain black shirt with snazzy New > >Non-Fiction pants (black with words printed in various sizes all over > 'em). > >um, what words? They were upside-down to us, as though meant to be read by the wearer while the pants were being worn... and most words were far too small to be understood from a distance, although Susan invited people to come up after the show and read her pants. :) They appeared to be taken from news clippings, with 'headlines' in larger print and 'stories' in much smaller print... but in spite of the small word size, I could see what appeared to be "Vote 2000" as one upside-down headline. As Sherlyn described, the Bay Area shows were wonderful! I saw only two of the three, missing the sold-out 8pm show in Berkeley, but Sunday's Santa Cruz show was one of the best I've seen, and they both loved playing the Kuumbwa Jazz Center with it's great acoustics... Susan especially loved the Kuumbwa's superb piano. I'll be mostly off-line all week, working off-site and seeing four shows this week (Erin McKeown and Peter Mulvey) so it'll be awhile before I can provide set lists. Sherlyn, it was great to meet you after all these years... :) John - in San Jose - -- RAVEN HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 07:57:01 -0700 From: "Ron Rosen" Subject: The Pants (Oh no, they're discussing my clothes!) > >when we last left our heroes, Sherlyn Koo (sherlyn@fl.net.au) exclaimed: > > >and both times she was wearing a plain black shirt with snazzy New > > >Non-Fiction pants (black with words printed in various sizes all over > > 'em). > >um, what words? > > They were upside-down to us, as though meant to be read by the > wearer while the pants were being worn... and most words were > far too small to be understood from a distance, although Susan > invited people to come up after the show and read her pants. :) > > They appeared to be taken from news clippings, with 'headlines' > in larger print and 'stories' in much smaller print... but in > spite of the small word size, I could see what appeared to be > "Vote 2000" as one upside-down headline. In order to understand the significance of the pants with headlines and stories on them, you have to see the cover and booklet that goes with the CD. HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 08:25:06 -0700 From: RAVEN@igc.org Subject: Re: The Pants (Oh no, they're discussing my clothes!) At 07:57 10/23/2001 (-0700), Ron Rosen wrote: >In order to understand the significance of the pants with headlines >and stories on them, you have to see the cover and booklet that goes >with the CD. Probably the reason why Sherlyn described then as Susan's "snazzy New Non-Fiction pants", although the pants have a much more graphic design appearance than the CD booklet, with large blocks of color (deep blue, grey, etc) mixed with the black background... but yes, they certainly fit the new album's visual concept, as well as the CD title, which I suspect is one of the reasons Susan chose them. John - -- RAVEN HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 01 11:50:12 -0500 From: Kris Richardson Subject: Re: Criminal Acts As much as I hate to admit it, Rjabalos' comments do make sense, and I couldn't agree more. I'm an audio engineer and have seen a variety of management styles in the music industry. Susan's management knows that they have guaranteed buyers within her fan base, so they don't seem concerned how long we have to wait... they just know that we will. It makes it easy for them to be lazy and not try to market her to a larger audience. The stupidity in that way of thinking of course is that it wouldn't be that difficult to market an artist of Susan's diversity and talent. Kris >The real reason is laziness. It would require effort to address envelopes, >stuff CDs into them, and lug everything to the Post Office. Better let the >fans (like Ron) turn their apartments and hotel rooms into UPS shipping >centers. Susan's fans can wait, buy their CDs at shows, why do we need to >exert ourselves on their behalf? HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 09:56:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Charlie Sweeney Subject: RE: Criminal Acts Forwarded Mail ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To: believers@smoe.org Subject: Re: Criminal Acts Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 08:17:22 -0400 > All those involved in this decision should truly be ashamed of themselves. It seems to me that a comment this global is taking it a little far. Is there any reason to believe that Susan is not a part of this decision? I don't have any more information here than anyone else, but it seems to me that the artist *always* has an opportunity to share in the decisions that affect his/her career. Just my two cents... - --MY Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:15:46 EDT From: Loris1127@aol.com Subject: Re: believers-digest V5 #207 In a message dated 01-10-22 17:24:00 EDT, Rjabalos@aol.com wrote: << I could go on and on but the point is made. >> Several times, I think, in the past week. There was some disagreement about whether this topic belongs in this forum at all - I think to a certain extent, it does. But discussion does not mean that you are entitled to convert everyone, or always have the last word. We know your point of view - time to sit back and listen to someone else's. 'Kay? I usually refrain from giving 'netiquette lessons, but when someone gets really vehement about their point of view, it tends to prompt an equally vehement response, and that's when things start going downhill. Let's not go there. Someone said that is might do Suze good to open for someone big (like Bonnie Raitt, I think was suggested) And someone objected that then we would never see her in small venues again. I don't see the neccesary connection - surely she could still book small venues as well - altho maybe with higher ticket prices, would wouldn't bother anyone too much. But, hasn't she opened for some fairly big people in the past and it hasn't seemed to make her carreer take off? Maybe we need a music video Lori in NH HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:26:14 -0400 From: Jeff Wasilko Subject: Read this if you want a copy of "New Non-Fiction" I'm going to be seeing Susan at the Somerville Theatre on November 3. I'm able to pick up an unlimited # of CDs, so hopefully anyone who wants one will be able to get one. Here's the deal: I'm only going accept orders and payment via Paypal (www.paypal.com). I've been Paypal for ages and it's a great way to get money to someone quickly. I can't deal with checks easily, so please don't write me asking if you can mail me a check. You can sign up at this URL: https://www.paypal.com/refer/pal=jeffw%2Bpaypal%40smoe.org The CD is $16, and postage/handling for the first CD is $3.50. Add $1.00 postage/handling for extra CDs. I'll mail the CDs out Monday November 5th. - -jeff HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:27:18 EDT From: Loris1127@aol.com Subject: Re: believers-digest V5 #208 In a message dated 01-10-23 03:43:15 EDT, you write: << Actually, I've been waiting for the CD to reach enough believer hands to pose this thought I've had for a while: we should launch a campaign to get "Big Car" played on NPR's Car Talk. They usually feature a few car-themed songs in the show every week, and the first time I ever heard Susan perform it I thought the Tappett Bros. *need* to hear it. Now, of course this won't work unless the good people at Car Talk Plaza have a copy of _New Non-Fiction_, but I'd imagine someone can rectify that, particularly since Susan will be playing in Boston in less than 2 weeks. Then all we have to do is go to http://www.cartalk.org/Mail/auto-music.html and tell them "hey, go grab that new CD you just got from Susan Werner and play 'Big Car'!!!" >> YES YES YES! And they do give out the snail mail addy every program, for the puzzler. It may even be on the web site. I had the same thought a while back, but of course, had to wait for hte song to be recorded. I was tempted to send them a copy from the Bull Run CD, but about then the track list for NNF appeared. Lori in NH HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ End of believers-digest V5 #209 ******************************* --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------- This has been a posting from the Susan Werner believers-digest To unsubscribe send mail to Majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe believers-digest" in the body of the message