From: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org (believers-digest) To: believers-digest@smoe.org Subject: believers-digest V5 #202 Reply-To: believers@smoe.org Sender: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk believers-digest Friday, October 19 2001 Volume 05 : Number 202 In Today's believer's digest: ----------------- its a damned shame...... but, [Simona Loberant ] The Party Line defies common sense [Rjabalos@aol.com] Minor administrative costs [Rjabalos@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 18:58:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Simona Loberant Subject: its a damned shame...... but, This phrase was at the end of my email before, but I wanted to stick it up front(for all the skimmersout there) If Susan's managment feels in any way that letters of praise and devotion would help her get her foot in the door with a larger record company like rounder, hightone or razor and tie then please tell us. I am sure that the many believers (all 200 of us!) and their non list serv friends would be more than happy and a little tooo willing to ambush record company execs with proclimations of how much we enjoy Susan's music. ..... Hey believers, I just wanted to add my few cents. I am still new to folk so for me I have not waited three years for a new susan werner album to come out. But, I have had the fortune to spend a lot of time around some extremely talented musicians. My mother is a pianist and she is married to a jazz musician. Mom's husband is among the foremost in his field and plenty of his exceptionally talented buddies will come by our house all the time. They have all recorded albums and many spent ten, twenty, thirty plus years on the road. They are as talented as the jazz musicians that made it big in the 20s. The problem is that over the past century this country has lost any appreciation for good music that it once had. As a result some of the most talented musicians in this country have struggled to make a living. They tour non stop. Putting out CDs often means a great expense to them. Many of them have played with the likes of billie holiday, ella fitzgerald, and many others. And I can think of at least one who played with susan as part of a larger concert (my brain is not remebering the details right now). And they have also played with judy collins, james taylor and joan baez in addition to many jazz greats. But, they still live hand to mouth and will never get a record deal no matter how talented they may be. Its truly a shame that artists (and i use this term loosely) like britney, n'sync and mariah make millions while there are all of these super talented people out there hoofing it around the country playing to only handfuls of people and probably not making ends meet. On one hand I like the fact that the artists have a small fan base because it makes them more accesible, on the other hand it truly sucks that many of them barely get by. Every musician I know either teaches lessons or works in an office or both. We are talking about musicians who have been nominated for grammies in jazz, not just your regular weekend gig player who does it purely for fun. My mom pushes papers and teaches piano now, she has given up any hope of becoming a soloist (even though many people in the know have told her that she could give quite a few pianists out there some competition) and her husband teaches music in a private school, lessons in the evenigs and gigs wherever he can get them. He has also given up the hope of becoming a recording musician, and has left his many years of constant traveling for a calmer suburban life. Its sad when I see the nominating papers from the grammy awards coming to our front door. The names on the lists will be those people who sold out and many more whose talent is barely noticeable. Those nominated for non pop music will not appear on television. Only the likes of michael jackson and celine dion will be televised and they can't hold a candle to the people who are skipped over on the broadcast. Susan Werner is by far the most talented urban folk/folk-jazz musicians out there. I am wowed by her incredible stage presence and her ability to make a CD that I can listen to over and over again without getting sick of it. I totally agree that its been a long time between CDs (or trains....) But, susan herself could not have predicted two record companies going under after she signed with them. I totally agree with whoever said that Rounder Records would be a great place for her. I have met people who work with them through my jazz "contacts" and have long been a fan of many of the artists who are on their label. They are extremely diverse and host jewish folk and klezmer, jazz, pseudo classical and american folk. Who knows, perhaps they have been approached and they are not interested or there may be other issues. Nothing anyone here would know. Its an amazing boom for an artist on a circuit as small as the folk music circuit (or the jazz circuit) for that matter to get a multi record deal from a company. Dar williams shot up as one of the most successful artists in the genre after her deal with Razor and Tie and not to alienate any Dar fans out there (because I like Dar as much as anyone else out there). But she was even able to release a just halfway decent live album this past month and will sell probably a 100K minimum of that album even though its not really that good. ( i own the album, so i can attest to its being only mediocre) Another thing is that often an artist does not quite "court" the record company. Many record companies either come to you if they like you... not the other way around. I can't imagine why a record company would not try and court a talent like Susan Werner, but I am not a record exec. I say, wait patiently for the new album, or ask one of the generous folks out there in believer land to buy one for you. Susan is playing Rochester, NY on a weekend in December when I already had planned to visit my mom in Rochester (what luck and joy!). This is will be my first ultra solo susan concert, i saw her at ffrf and with ellis paul in ohio so I can't wait to hear a real double set! And I will get my CD there. I figure waiting to get it will only making actually getting it just that much more fun. And if anyone out there is intersted I am thinking of going to the tin angel in philly show (there are two of them the same night) on a sunday in novemeber. Its a six hour drive for me and I would only go if someone else out there could make some of the drive with me, its too much of a trek for me to do in one day alone. (so if you live near pittsburgh, harrisburg, scranton, wheeling wv or eastern ohio) ~Simona Loberant Simona L. Loberant http://www.geocities.com/loberant "Every now and then go away, even briefly, have a little relaxation, for when you come back to your work your judgment will be surer; since to remain constantly at work will cause you to lose power." **Leonardo da Vinci Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 22:45:38 EDT From: Rjabalos@aol.com Subject: The Party Line defies common sense In a message dated 10/18/01 7:58:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-believers-digest@smoe.org writes: > : > > > 1) If Susan does not have a deal by mid-November, then the CD will > be available via her web page. Larry re-iterated that any direct > sales, in his opinion, jeopardizes their ability to negotiate > with potential labels. Please try to understand this and not be > an armchair quarterback.... > > 2) When Susan does get the deal, Larry will have the company make it > available to Susan's list, before it hits retail. > > Larry mentioned that he has a couple of labels that have > expressed interest in signing Susan, but the changing economic > conditions have distracted them quite a bit. They're having to > deal with many problems, including massive retail returns, so > Susan is not a top priority. > > The above makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE at all. And to those who preach understanding in the face of conflict, I am directly criticizing Susan's current management as I have for years. I've been involved in advertising and publishing for more than 25 years, I'm a lawyer, and I've been a partner in a jazz club which owned and promoted published and recorded music. I'm not a neophyte in this area. If you are negotiating a distribution deal with a record label or a recording contract, you want to promote the commercial viability of your artist to make them more profitable so there is less risk for the label. You want the record company to understand that your artist has the ability to sell many CDs and therefore make tons of money for the label. You want a proven product with preexisting sales that scream to a record company: "LOOK. With our near nonexistent marketing methods we are selling this CD and artist big time and with your money, promotional ability, and distribution channels behind this artist and her work, we will all make huge profits." What Susan's management is apparently saying defies not only standard industry practices but even common sense. They want a record label to pick her up when they can't even generate a momentum behind her most recent work by selling to her most loyal fans-----even when she has a website and email list designed to do just that! They should be selling her CD to anyone who will buy it so they can go to a record company executive with successful sale numbers and profits already in the black. But my criticism doesn't end there. From my understanding, Susan's current CD was produced without a record company behind her, limiting retail access to it from the start. Blaming the "current economic environment" is a sham since her management literally has had YEARS to arrange a new deal. Her last label died over a year ago and had one foot in the grave for years before that. You don't wait until you have new product to find a place to sell it. You lock that in first, or at least simultaneously. This "cart before the horse" approach is truly insulting to Susan. With her talent and experience, they can't get her a deal even when they have new product "in the can"? I've negotiated these deals with artists and record companies. Pre-signing sales do not "jeopardize" deals, they make them easier to put together. You can point to a proven track record of sales instead of just guessing IF the music will sell at all. Publishers of books and music love to buy successful self-published titles because they know all the risk is gone and the reward already proven. Same is true of music currently being sold. Record companies are in the business of making money. They sell music. If you were a recording company executive, what is the better deal? The artist with already proven product and RECENT sales on a NEW CD marketed through the Internet and via a personal website and live tour dates or one sold to very few fans out of the trunk of a car at coffeehouses and bars? Use common sense. Does selling this CD to her most loyal fans via a broadcast email offer to the Believers List (however many people that is) and immediately boosting sales hurt or help her bargaining power? When a record exec asks "Will people buy it?" would it help or hurt for her management company to say "Well, we sold 1,000 copies last week alone"? Don't buy the Party Line here, people. HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 22:51:55 EDT From: Rjabalos@aol.com Subject: Minor administrative costs In a message dated 10/18/01 7:58:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-believers-digest@smoe.org writes: > >In addition to the excellent points Jeff made (and confirmed), one must > >also take into account the sheer administrative load involved in packaging > >and shipping hundreds of CDs. Larry, Susan's manager doesn't have a huge > >office under him, and Jane and Susan are constantly on the road. The > >infrastructure just isn't there to make them available in quantities larger > >than those that can be sold directly to people at a show, one show at a > You don't run a distribution outfit this way. You can literally call a temp service who sends people over for a few days to address envelopes and lick stamps. Every company sometimes has more demand than their current staff can meet. If you released Susan's CD you would have a surge of demand for a couple weeks, and then it would die down. That's what temporary office help is for. Again, more excuse making by Susan's management. Time to start figuring out how things can get done instead of inventing reasons why it can't. As to sales costs, your gross margins would fall with higher costs but you would make it up immediately on volume. Plus you would cut a better long term deal with a label, yes? HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ End of believers-digest V5 #202 ******************************* --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------- This has been a posting from the Susan Werner believers-digest To unsubscribe send mail to Majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe believers-digest" in the body of the message