From: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org (believers-digest) To: believers-digest@smoe.org Subject: believers-digest V5 #201 Reply-To: believers@smoe.org Sender: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk believers-digest Thursday, October 18 2001 Volume 05 : Number 201 In Today's believer's digest: ----------------- Great marketing strategy? [Rjabalos@aol.com] Re: strategy? [PBCoustic@aol.com] Re: marketing strategy redux [PBCoustic@aol.com] Re: Great marketing strategy? [Jeff Wasilko ] Re: Great marketing strategy? [charisse@pipeline.com] Re: Great marketing strategy? (and an offer to pick up CDs for Believers) [Jeff Wasilko ] Re: Great marketing strategy? ["Charisse D. Lowe" ] Re: Great marketing strategy? [meredith ] Re: Great marketing strategy? ["Charisse D. Lowe" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:45:17 EDT From: Rjabalos@aol.com Subject: Great marketing strategy? Let me see if I have this marketing strategy correct? Susan puts out a brand new CD, her first in more than three years. Susan and her management have in their hands a list of her most loyal and dedicated fans, the 1,200+ people who have joined the Susan Werner Believers email list, admirers of Susan's music to such an extent that they not only go see her live shows and dissect her songs but take the time to read daily emails from other Susan fans that do. But despite the fact that these die-hard fans are BEGGING for the new CD, no effort is made to sell directly to this clamoring mass that would instantly snap up hundreds of copies of this new disc. Is it really easier to sell dozens of copies of Susan's new CD at a live show than hundreds at a time here online? Are all the other music acts that make special "Early CD Release" offers to their online fans doing it wrong? I thought performers toured to support sales of a CD. Not release a CD to support tour sales. Has it occurred to anyone that really wants this new CD but can't yet make it to a show (the U.S. is a big country, yes?) that this CD sale strategy is REVERSE word-of-mouth advertising for Susan's tour? I've been in the advertising business twenty-five years and I've never seen something so blatantly silly. I love Susan and her music. I've seen her 34 times, she's one of the most friendly, intelligent, and talented performers I know, a real unique treasure. But her career management decisions over the years have been disastrous. She's had (at least) two record labels go bankrupt under her and a host of poor business choices have truly limited the scope and depth of her professional success. By virtue of the pure force of her talent she deserves much greater commercial acclaim than she has attained. I can only ask whether the chain of ineptness that undermines her continues here. Hey Management! You have 1,000+ people right her who want to buy Susan's new CD. SELL IT TO US! What is the problem? A simple email with an address and an amount due broadcast to the members of this list will bring in HUNDREDS of orders. I myself can't see a Susan show for at least two months but I want to buy five copies of the CD NOW for myself, my wife, and three friends I want to take to her first available show in my area! That's five sales just from me TODAY you are losing. Am I the only person thinking of this? HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:12:08 EDT From: PBCoustic@aol.com Subject: Re: strategy? In a message dated 10/18/01 8:50:50 AM Central Daylight Time, Rjabalos@aol.com writes: << Am I the only person thinking of this? >> A subtle "amen, brutha..." but, I say to myself that I don't know all the particulars.... In contrast, Sara Hickman puts out "homemade" CDs pitched primarily to her email list... PB HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:27:00 EDT From: PBCoustic@aol.com Subject: Re: marketing strategy redux In a message dated 10/18/01 8:50:50 AM Central Daylight Time, Rjabalos@aol.com writes: << Am I the only person thinking of this? >> And my prior note is perhaps best summarized by: "I will not criticize another until I have walked a mile in his mocassins ." native american quote (And RJ, I know you're not criticizing so much as expressing your frustrations and trying to help, as every single Suze supporter would!!!) PB HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:35:54 -0400 From: Jeff Wasilko Subject: Re: Great marketing strategy? On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 09:45:17AM -0400, Rjabalos@aol.com wrote: > Let me see if I have this marketing strategy correct? > > Susan puts out a brand new CD, her first in more than three years. > > Susan and her management have in their hands a list of her most loyal and > dedicated fans, the 1,200+ people who have joined the Susan Werner Believers > email list, admirers of Susan's music to such an extent that they not only go > see her live shows and dissect her songs but take the time to read daily > emails from other Susan fans that do. I've got news for you. There aren't 1200 people on Believers. It's more like 200. > But despite the fact that these die-hard fans are BEGGING for the new CD, no > effort is made to sell directly to this clamoring mass that would instantly > snap up hundreds of copies of this new disc. Did it occur to you that perhaps there is a reason for this? Perhaps that Susan is still trying to secure a deal with a record company and that selling the CDs directly would jeopardize their negotiating position? > I thought performers toured to support sales of a CD. Not release a CD to > support tour sales. I don't know if Susan makes more money from CD sales or concert performances, but I would guess it would be a tie (or perhaps slightly biased to performances). I think of performers in 2 classes: 1) Those who tour to support a major record release that's plastered all over top 40 or country radio. The tour may only last a few months. 2) Those who tour year 'round, day-in, day-out to support themselves. These types of performers tour long after a CD has been released. These performers don't tour to support a CD. They tour to support themselves. Now which class is Susan in? (Hint: it's not #1). > Has it occurred to anyone that really wants this new CD but can't yet make it > to a show (the U.S. is a big country, yes?) that this CD sale strategy is > REVERSE word-of-mouth advertising for Susan's tour? I've been in the > advertising business twenty-five years and I've never seen something so > blatantly silly. You are aware that listmembers have been picking up copies for other listmembers at shows, right? > I love Susan and her music. I've seen her 34 times, she's one of the most > friendly, intelligent, and talented performers I know, a real unique > treasure. But her career management decisions over the years have been > disastrous. She's had (at least) two record labels go bankrupt under her and > a host of poor business choices have truly limited the scope and depth of her > professional success. By virtue of the pure force of her talent she deserves > much greater commercial acclaim than she has attained. I can only ask > whether the chain of ineptness that undermines her continues here. Record companies going bust is a fact of life in the music biz, as is consolidation. The facts are that this is a tough business, and the delay you're seeing in releasing the CD is a direct result of that. Susan's management team is working very hard to ensure that she gets the best possible deal in this very difficult business climate (which I'm sure has only gotten more difficult since September 11). - -jeff HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:10:23 -0400 From: charisse@pipeline.com Subject: Re: Great marketing strategy? I had found Susan's manager's email address on the flemtam site. He has responded to emails. Why not forward your email to him? They could put Susan's CD on CDBaby and make it available without the hassle of dealing with payments and shipping. She won't make $16 a copy, more like $ 10 or $11 a copy, but it will at least be available. Her manager is trying to get Susan a label deal, and that seems to be the hold up on any kind of marketing strategy. I know, seems silly to me, too. Charisse in Wichita Rjabalos@aol.com wrote: > Let me see if I have this marketing strategy correct? Susan puts out a brand new CD, her first in more than three years. Susan and her management have in their hands a list of her most loyal and dedicated fans, the 1,200+ people who have joined the Susan Werner Believers email list, admirers of Susan's music to such an extent that they not only go see her live shows and dissect her songs but take the time to read daily emails from other Susan fans that do. But despite the fact that these die-hard fans are BEGGING for the new CD, no effort is made to sell directly to this clamoring mass that would instantly snap up hundreds of copies of this new disc. Is it really easier to sell dozens of copies of Susan's new CD at a live show than hundreds at a time here online? Are all the other music acts that make special "Early CD Release" offers to their online fans doing it wrong? I thought performers toured to support sales of a CD. Not release a CD to support tour sales. Has it occurred to anyone that really wants this new CD but can't yet make it to a show (the U.S. is a big country, yes?) that this CD sale strategy is REVERSE word-of-mouth advertising for Susan's tour? I've been in the advertising business twenty-five years and I've never seen something so blatantly silly. I love Susan and her music. I've seen her 34 times, she's one of the most friendly, intelligent, and talented performers I know, a real unique treasure. But her career management decisions over the years have been disastrous. She's had (at least) two record labels go bankrupt under her and a host of poor business choices have truly limited the scope and depth of her professional success. By virtue of the pure force of her talent she deserves much greater commercial acclaim than she has attained. I can only ask whether the chain of ineptness that undermines her continues here. Hey Management! You have 1,000+ people right her who want to buy Susan's new CD. SELL IT TO US! What is the problem? A simple email with an address and an amount due broadcast to the members of this list will bring in HUNDREDS of orders. I myself can't see a Susan show for at least two months but I want to buy five copies of the CD NOW for myself, my wife, and three friends I want to take to her first available show in my area! That's five sales just from me TODAY you are losing. Am I the only person thinking of this? HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:48:59 -0400 From: Jeff Wasilko Subject: Re: Great marketing strategy? (and an offer to pick up CDs for Believers) Hi: I exchanged email with Larry (Susan's manager), and he asked me to pass on a couple of points: 1) If Susan does not have a deal by mid-November, then the CD will be available via her web page. Larry re-iterated that any direct sales, in his opinion, jeopardizes their ability to negotiate with potential labels. Please try to understand this and not be an armchair quarterback.... 2) When Susan does get the deal, Larry will have the company make it available to Susan's list, before it hits retail. Larry mentioned that he has a couple of labels that have expressed interest in signing Susan, but the changing economic conditions have distracted them quite a bit. They're having to deal with many problems, including massive retail returns, so Susan is not a top priority. I hope this helps clarify the challenges that Susan is facing. I will be willing to purchase CDs for believers at the Boston show (November 3). Kellie (another believer) has made the same offer, so between the 2 of us we should be able to satisfy demand. - -j HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 05:53:35 +1000 (EST) From: Sherlyn Koo Subject: Re: Great marketing strategy? (and an offer to pick up CDs for Believers) Hey all, Jeff said: > 1) If Susan does not have a deal by mid-November, then the CD will > be available via her web page. Larry re-iterated that any direct > sales, in his opinion, jeopardizes their ability to negotiate > with potential labels. I for one am grateful that the CD is available at all. Given that label negotiations are still ongoing, I would have thought it would have still been locked in limbo. Of course, I did already manage to get a copy for myself so it's a lot easier for me to say that now than it would have been a week ago, when I was anxiously awaiting my chance to buy it... i also have to apologise for not being able to offer to get copies for people on the list. I'd like to but given that I'm pretty much going to be no-fixed-address for the rest of the year (plus that whole US cheque thing doesn't work for me) it's just not possible. Wish I could help some of you out though... - -sherlyn HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:50:41 -0400 From: Steve Murphy Subject: Re: Great marketing strategy? sometimes, the administrative costs are overwhelming... HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:58:11 -0400 From: strange little woj Subject: Re: Great marketing strategy? (and an offer to pick up CDs for Believers) when we last left our heroes, Jeff Wasilko exclaimed: >I will be willing to purchase CDs for believers at the Boston >show (November 3). Kellie (another believer) has made the same >offer, so between the 2 of us we should be able to satisfy demand. and, if not, meredith and i can pick up the slack. woj HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 19:36:12 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: Great marketing strategy? Hi, In addition to the excellent points Jeff made (and confirmed), one must also take into account the sheer administrative load involved in packaging and shipping hundreds of CDs. Larry, Susan's manager doesn't have a huge office under him, and Jane and Susan are constantly on the road. The infrastructure just isn't there to make them available in quantities larger than those that can be sold directly to people at a show, one show at a time. ======================================= Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth "an eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind" -- mahatma gandhi ======================================= Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://www.smoe.org/meth/muzak.html HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 18:45:50 -0400 From: "Charisse D. Lowe" Subject: Re: Great marketing strategy? But CDBaby can do it - they handle everything, and you don't have to sign a contract or anything. Just ship 'em the CDs. Hopefully, the magnanimous Mr. Rosen posted a few CDs from last night's show?? Ground Control to Major Ron...? Charisse - -----Original Message----- From: meredith To: believers@smoe.org Date: Thursday, October 18, 2001 7:40 PM Subject: Re: Great marketing strategy? >Hi, > >In addition to the excellent points Jeff made (and confirmed), one must >also take into account the sheer administrative load involved in packaging >and shipping hundreds of CDs. Larry, Susan's manager doesn't have a huge >office under him, and Jane and Susan are constantly on the road. The >infrastructure just isn't there to make them available in quantities larger >than those that can be sold directly to people at a show, one show at a time. > >======================================= >Meredith Tarr >New Haven, CT USA >mailto:meth@smoe.org >http://www.smoe.org/meth >"an eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind" -- mahatma gandhi >======================================= >Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series >http://www.smoe.org/meth/muzak.html > >HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org >Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs >http://worldcafecds.com HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 19:46:26 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: Great marketing strategy? Hi, Charisse responded: >But CDBaby can do it - they handle everything, and you don't have to sign a >contract or anything. Just ship 'em the CDs. ... but if you're refaining from retail sales in order to protect a potential label deal, that's not an option either. ======================================= Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth "an eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind" -- mahatma gandhi ======================================= Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://www.smoe.org/meth/muzak.html HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 18:58:38 -0400 From: "Charisse D. Lowe" Subject: Re: Great marketing strategy? Personally, and as much as I adore Susan's work - the numbers sold over CDBaby would only enhance her viability - and she's not going to get a deal with say Warner's, Sony, etc. I hope to God they are courting Red House and HighTone - maybe Rounder. Lynn Miles indie CD was picked up by Rounder, and Susan blows her doors off. Please don't anyone take that as a slam against Lynn - I like some of her work, too. In marketing, time is money. I've been around the music business for 30 years or so, and having a track record never hurt anyone. Charisse " not really arguing with Meredith" ;-) - -----Original Message----- From: meredith To: believers@smoe.org Date: Thursday, October 18, 2001 7:50 PM Subject: Re: Great marketing strategy? >Hi, > >Charisse responded: > >>But CDBaby can do it - they handle everything, and you don't have to sign a >>contract or anything. Just ship 'em the CDs. > >... but if you're refaining from retail sales in order to protect a >potential label deal, that's not an option either. > > >======================================= >Meredith Tarr >New Haven, CT USA >mailto:meth@smoe.org >http://www.smoe.org/meth >"an eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind" -- mahatma gandhi >======================================= >Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series >http://www.smoe.org/meth/muzak.html > >HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org >Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs >http://worldcafecds.com HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ End of believers-digest V5 #201 ******************************* --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------- This has been a posting from the Susan Werner believers-digest To unsubscribe send mail to Majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe believers-digest" in the body of the message