From: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org (believers-digest) To: believers-digest@smoe.org Subject: believers-digest V5 #174 Reply-To: believers@smoe.org Sender: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk believers-digest Wednesday, September 19 2001 Volume 05 : Number 174 In Today's believer's digest: ----------------- Re: Banned Songs ["Tim Dunleavy" ] Re: believers-digest V5 #173 [TYEPAT@aol.com] Re: Response to Roy Langhans ["Charisse D. Lowe" ] Sorry Ron, Roy is right [Rjabalos@aol.com] Re: Response to Charisse D. Lowe ["Ron Rosen" ] discourse and discussion [Charlie Sweeney ] Re: Re: Response to Charisse D. Lowe [] [none] [] Susan and Ellis in Ohio [Simona Loberant ] Re: Susan and Ellis in Ohio [charisse@pipeline.com] Re: Response to Roy Langhans [Steve Murphy ] Random thoughts, random violence ["David S. Kaskela" ] Need Photos & Graphics from 9-11-01 [Laura Burgess ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 22:05:04 -0400 From: "Tim Dunleavy" Subject: Re: Banned Songs > Clear Channel's List of Songs with Questionable Lyrics > > Artist - Title > Jackson Brown - "Doctor My Eyes" > U2 - "Sunday Bloody Sunday" > Billy Joel - "Only the Good Die Young" > Louis Armstrong - "What A Wonderful World" > Youngbloods - "Get Together" > Frank Sinatra - "New York, New York" > Fontella Bass - "Rescue Me" I've heard ALL of the above songs on the radio since the WTC disaster. > J. Frank Wilson - "Last Kiss" > Paper Lace - "The Night Chicago Died" These songs should not be played at ANY time, ever again. Yuck! - -Tim Who, as a joke, bought the Paper Lace single a few years ago. The b-side is their version of the equally repugnant "Billy, Don't Be A Hero" (same songwriters!). HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 06:57:21 EDT From: TYEPAT@aol.com Subject: Re: believers-digest V5 #173 But, what about Susan? HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 07:04:33 -0400 From: "Charisse D. Lowe" Subject: Re: Response to Roy Langhans > Call me the Thought Police if you want, but I, for one, have had enough of > your political comments on this forum. Please find another outlet for them. > Roy Langhans Roy, This type of music has always had a political bent - even Susan has a tune called "Year of the bad President..... I have never heard anyone on this list go after someone or be rude ( like other lists I'm on), so let's not start now in a time when we really do need to pull together. I am a boomer, too, and having lived through the Nam years. It is especially chilling to see another war on the horizon. The positive factor, is that this time, the country is not divided. Let cool heads prevail, boys and girls, these will be trying days, and let our music carry us through. Go listen to Don Henley's "In a New York Minute". It has new meaning. And stop sniping at each other, or I'll pull this car over.... Charisse in Wichita HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 08:30:41 EDT From: Rjabalos@aol.com Subject: Sorry Ron, Roy is right In a message dated 9/18/01 3:42:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-believers-digest@smoe.org writes: > > Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 19:50:16 -0700 > From: "Ron Rosen" > Subject: Re: Response to Roy Langhans > > > Call me the Thought Police if you want, but I, for one, have had enough of > > your political comments on this forum. Please find another outlet for > them. > > Roy Langhans > > Sorry, Roy, you'll have to find another solution. First of all, I have > made very few > political comments on the Believers list. (The Dar list and the EFO list > is where > most of my comments have been posted.) Secondly, the solution to your > problem is > simply not read what I write. Just delete it. I have some boomer language > ready for > you, but in deference to the others here I will paraphrase what I would > like to say > to you, "Who are you to tell me where and how to post my views?" I don't > care what > you think, Roy. I've tried to communicate with folks like you. I'll say > what I > want, when I want. That's what I was taught America was about. People are > going to > die in the near future defending America. But I'll be damned if they're > fighting for > your right to try to tell people what to say and when to say it, Roy. Not > Sorry Ron, but Roy is right. I care very much what you have to say about Susan and her music. That is why I joined this list, to hear about what Susan's fans have to say about her, her touring, and her songs. I couldn't care less what you have to say about the World Trade Center bombing, censorship, the stock market, or the price of oil. This is a forum for fans of Susan to swap ideas about her music. The political discussions are out of line. Your attempt to wrap yourself in the flag and the First Amendment is not only silly but insulting at this time of national grief. You have the perfect right to express yourself on politics but find the appropriate forum. There are only about ten million chat rooms and forums online for political discussions. Here you have the absolute right to spout any opinion whatsoever without limit or restraint on Susan and her songs. You do not have the right to force others to read your unwanted opinions and words, much like you don't have the right to stand up in a movie theater and scream political diatribes while others are trying to watch the film. Robert HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 05:56:31 -0700 From: "Ron Rosen" Subject: Re: Response to Charisse D. Lowe > Let cool heads prevail, boys and girls, these will > be trying days, and let our music carry us through. > > Go listen to Don Henley's "In a New York Minute". It has new meaning. And > stop sniping at each other, or I'll pull this car over.... Charisse: You and I are two of the most active participants on the Believer's List, which is not really saying a lot because it is a very quiet list. We have always respected each other, and have had many private communications. Above all we both love music, and Susan's music in particular. To the extent that the phrases "boys and girls" or "stop sniping at each other" were intended in any way to apply to my response to Roy Langhans, I respectfully say that they were out of line, disrespectful and belittling, and I will ignore them. You see, my problem with the PC Thought Police is that they do not tolerate free expression except on their terms, and expressions of conflict or dissension of any kind are particularly problematic to them. My problem with some of the folk lists I'm on is this very intolerance of conflict and open discussion. What you see on your computer screen are typed words. They don't make noise, they don't shake your walls, they are just words that you can turn on and off or delete. Because this list is quiet, I have been very circumspect and judicious in my posts. There are other lists, which are about particular music or bands where all sorts of things are discussed and the conflict becomes extreme at times. It's just the nature of the people on them, and how they take shape. I consider some of the people on this list to be friends. If I share a thought, it is only because I'm sharing something which I believe is extremely important. The thing that triggered this recent thread was my use of two words in introducing the Clear Channel song list. I have decided, however, that I will no longer be silent on the attempt to silence others. I believe it is a very important part of what the country is facing now. I will share those views. I do not force others to read what I have to say. You have delete buttons, you have kill files. For that reason, saying something to fellow Susan fans is not the same as yelling in a crowded theater, and comments on the timing of my comments is just a futher example of what I'm talking about. And God forbid, some of the things I have to say might actually lead to some good discussions and insights for all of us. But no, we don't want that, that's too uncomfortable. HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 06:22:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Charlie Sweeney Subject: discourse and discussion HI all, Me, taking time out from my unrelenting 16 hour days to be listmom for a moment. There are no restrictions on what can be posted to this list, other than the prime directive, which is "be nice to each other". I personally didn't find Ron's first post to be offensive, as it was music related, and certainly makes a certain covert comment about what gets played on the radio (n'sync, britny) and what doesn't (Susan, Dar). But that's just me. I also have no objection to objections ,as long as they are respectfully stated. We're a very diverse group, and there is certainly room for disagreement in all things. I _will_ suggest that taking potshots at each other, or extending arguments ad infinitum on the list is counter productive and inappropriate. A venerable listmanager calls this "meta-discussion", discussion about what should or should not be discussed. Now, the level of discourse on this subject has been intelligent and mature in it's content and it's tone so far, but I fear that it may lead to a flame war. So I would _suggest_ that if you feel a need to take issue with a post to the list (I'm talking about a post to the list and not directed specifically to you) you do so privately and off list. You can also mail me your objections, but be warned, I'm pretty much in favor of free speech, as long as courtesy is observed. We're gonna have a lot to talk about in a month or so from now (hint,hint) and we need to keep _this_ coalition intact so we can help our fav chanteuse make the most of the CD release. If you diagree, please feel free to mail me privately. And remember the prime directive, "be nice to each other". _Please_ Charlie (=}===# Virtual Listmom __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 09:26:05 -0400 From: Subject: Re: Re: Response to Charisse D. Lowe Ron, You better chill out Ron, I was DEFENDING you. And for the rest of you, it's just like TV - if you don't like the programming, don't watch. If you see someone's name on a post and you don't like what they have to say, hit the delete key. This is as angry as I have ever posted on a music list. And if this is the most important thing any of us does today, we'd better all examine our priorities. Pissed in Wichita, Charisse Ron said: To the extent that the phrases "boys and girls" or "stop sniping at each other" were intended in any way to apply to my response to Roy Langhans, I respectfully say that they were out of line, disrespectful and belittling, and I will ignore them. HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 09:29:34 -0400 From: Subject: [none] Sorry, Charlie - my post was going out just as yours came in. Charisse, less pissed off HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 10:31:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Simona Loberant Subject: Susan and Ellis in Ohio Hello everyone. First of all L'Shana Tova to everyone. I should be doing more religious things, but here I am asking everyone out there if anyone is going to see Susan in Columbus Ohio this Friday. I just called to reserve a ticket at the door but I totally hate sitting alone. I am driving up from Pittsburgh so if anyone out there wants to go on a little car trip with me you are welcome to tag along. The concert is part of the six string concert series at the Shedd Theater and I hope tix are still availible. The seating is all general seating and tickets are fifteen dollars. This will be my first time seeing Susan perform a full concert!!!! Someone from this list emailed me before and said he was going, but I lost your email so I would appreciate if you would still adopt me for the evening. Thanks, Simona Simona L. Loberant http://www.geocities.com/loberant "Every now and then go away, even briefly, have a little relaxation, for when you come back to your work your judgment will be surer; since to remain constantly at work will cause you to lose power." **Leonardo da Vinci - --------------------------------- Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information inYahoo! News. HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 15:01:24 -0400 From: charisse@pipeline.com Subject: Re: Susan and Ellis in Ohio Looks like Susan will be playing Kansas City with Ellis this fall, too! Charisse in Wichita HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 18:08:52 -0400 From: Steve Murphy Subject: Re: Response to Roy Langhans I think I, for one, have heard enough Ron bashing on this list. Stop Bashing Ron! Ron Bashing... BAD. Secondly, there were not enough ABBA songs on that list of banned material. It should all be banned. Anything by ABBA! There's serious mind control going on there! Steve HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 18:38:23 -0400 From: "David S. Kaskela" Subject: Random thoughts, random violence Hi all- Here's to you Ron (and all the other believers who posted!) I may not always agree with you, but I always (choose to) read you and generally find you interesting and thought provoking! At the risk of offending any of you, I will still state that IMHO the events of last week, and those in the weeks and months to come, have changed our lives and our country profoundly and irrevokably. It is interesting and ironic that this occurred so soon after Ron's initial posts regarding the inability of todays generation to understand the "boomers" experience in the '60s and early '70s. And yet after this tragic week, today's generation (and all living Americas) have undergone "a sea change" so profound that it does rival my grandparents Great Depression, my parents Holocost and Hiroshima or my Vietnam and Watergate in the manner it has shaped our individuaal and collective view of the world. On Tuesday, Sept.11, 2001 more Americans died violently than at Antitam in the Civil War, the single bloodist day in American history. More Americans died than at Pearl Harbor. The single day death toll was 10% of American casualties in Vietnam in over 10 years of bloody warfare. None of the victims were combattants. They were innocent victims- our friends, family, neighbors and strangers: men, women and children whose only contribution to that violence was the happenstance of location. And it is a certainty that more Americans will die to defend our country and our way of life. We are blessed with a country were the right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" are the cornerstone of our freedom. These rights were taken away from over 5000 Americans last Tuesday. Not talk about it? I have not only the right, I have the obligation to talk about! Now I understand the survivors vow- Never forget, never forgive God bless America Dave HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 18:31:44 -0500 From: "Beth McConnell" Subject: Re: discourse and discussion : We're gonna have a lot to talk about in a month or so : from now (hint,hint) YAY YAY YAYYYYYYYYYY hot damn : ) Thanks maw. Beth HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 20:35:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Laura Burgess Subject: Need Photos & Graphics from 9-11-01 Hi Believer friends, I am creating a web page with the wide variety of photos and graphics I've received so far this week. I'm looking for one that a friend showed me which I asked him to email to me, but so far has not. Knowing the sense of humor of the members of this group, I thought there might be a chance that one of you received it from someone and saved it; it's a mock photo of the "new WTC design" showing a tall tower flanked by 4 short towers, representing a hand with, er, the tallest finger extended in a certain, um, gesture? Anybody got this one yet? Ron? Charlie? Visit My Home Page! 9-11-01 We Will Not Forget - --------------------------------- Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information inYahoo! News. HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at World Cafe CDs http://worldcafecds.com ------------------------------ End of believers-digest V5 #174 ******************************* --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------- This has been a posting from the Susan Werner believers-digest To unsubscribe send mail to Majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe believers-digest" in the body of the message