From: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org (believers-digest) To: believers-digest@smoe.org Subject: believers-digest V2 #152 Reply-To: believers@smoe.org Sender: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk believers-digest Sunday, September 27 1998 Volume 02 : Number 152 In Today's believer's digest: ----------------- Re: What's a "folk singer?" [Christopher Russell ] Re: Folk and Susan ["The Bearded One" ] the whole folk thing and news from the outside ["Charlie Sweeney" ] Re: the whole folk thing and news from the outside [rbhoff@ix.netcom.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 03:46:31 -0400 From: Christopher Russell Subject: Re: What's a "folk singer?" Who wrote Shakespeares' Plays? Did FDR know about Pearl Harbor? Was there a man on the grassy knoll? Is Susan Folk? What draws me to Susan is the ineffability of her music. Tower Records has her in Contemporary Pop whilst HMV places her in folk and J&R lists her in female vocals. Rob Piester posts that there is a "rumored camp of SW detractors" HUH? Are these the people that spawned BORN A LITTLE LATE (The Baby Boomer Song)? Is there some litmus test that you have to pass before being accepted as a Folk Singer? Is this even a moniker Susan wants? Quoting Tony Kushmer's Pulitzer/Tony Award winning drama ANGELS IN AMERICA: "Your problem is that you are hung up on words, on labels, that you believe they mean what they seem to mean. All labels tell you one thing and one thing only: where does an individual so identified fit in the food chain, in the pecking order? Not ideology but something much simpler: clout." Call it Martian Music for all I care. I like Susan Werner. Christopher HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at songs.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 03:47:11 -0400 From: Mary Ellen Nagle Subject: TBT: wow ! Brava, Susan! I was afraid at first to listen to this new CD...I've been waiting for it so long, but was afraid of feeling disappointed about all the great SW songs that I knew could not possibly fit onto this this one...( i.e. sky...boddhisattva...lucky things...talk me down...view at the edge of the world...isabelle...bad at love...don't hang the moon on me...think & run...rockingham county...hit the gravel...etc...etc...etc... ) Finally, my curiosity got the better the better of me, and I went out and bought the album for myself, after having already gotten it for some friends... What a joy! How come nobody on this list has yet mentioned the Petaluma Afternoons track? I love that song...and the album version, well, maybe I must've gotten shot full of serotonin by it 'cause I couldn't help it, I had to get up and dance when I first heard it and then I hit replay over & over several times... Still haven't heard the whole thing through yet, but I had to stop and post this note in the midst of my first hearing of TBT... btw, the subtle yet compositionally precise presence of Jane in the background of one of the liner notes photos is a nice touch. Made me smile when I saw it. - - Mary Ellen HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at songs.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Sep 98 04:14:23 -0000 From: "The Bearded One" Subject: Re: Folk and Susan Hi all, Folk is Folk. How's that? Susan is Folk and many other things and we all know she can be whatever she wants to be. How's that? Folk is what I like to listen to best. Folk is many things. Did some old folkies (-: get offended by Susan's "Born a Little Late"? Interesting note: I chatted with Bill Staines one evening while he was waiting for Guy Van Duser and Billy Novick to finish their set. He commented about the difference between "traditional" folk and this other stuff people are calling folk. I'll bet Bill could come up with a decent description though I'm sure we wouldn't all agree. Nancy Griffith credits him with giving her the courage to get up and sing. Is he folk or is she "Country"? I think of Mary Chapin Carpenter as "Folk's" sweet gift to "Country". Is folk Country without the twang? Is folk dancing country dancing without the fancy clothes? Is Dar folk? I know some "Folks" that got up and left one of her "band" shows because they didn't like the music and hoped that wasn't the direction folk was going. They didn't like the opener either, Jim's Big Ego. I thought they all were great. How about The Neilds? Another fantastic band. Are they really folk? I think so. How about Jewel? I hope so. Dee Carstensen? Yep. They all like to cross over the boundaries, which I really enjoy. How about if you play kind-a-like anyone that plays at Newport, (or if you played at Newport) then you can be a folkie. (-: Hows that? Thst's my 5 cents worth (accounting for inflation). Keep believing, "The Bearded One" HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at songs.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 09:22:08 -4000 From: "Charlie Sweeney" Subject: the whole folk thing and news from the outside HI all, Thanks to Bill Page for he informative link to the Nanci list archives: http://www.rahul.net/frankf/Nanci/9604.html and start with 4/14/96 Quite an interesting discussion. Regarding Rob Piester's mention of an anti-Susan group, well, yes, there are some people out there with bad feelings about Susan. Some of you may know of the discussions on rec.music.folk wherein the infamous "ghost" who posts from Harvard U went on a rampage starting sometime in 1995 and continuing until some months ago. During the course of that discussion, I got involved (as did Jane, briefly) and received some mail from folks local to Philly accusing Susan of being ambitious. To which I replied "Well, Duh!" If anyone in the folk community is of the opinion that ambition is not required to do the folk thing, try living out of a Honda for a couple weeks straight. I've watched many singer/songwriters go thru this, it never looked to appealing to me. It's damned difficult work. As to Susan's detractors being "Baby-boomers" objecting to the song, well, locally at least, the boomers show up in great numbers to see Susan. That includes your friendly list janitor. I think we have to look elsewhere for the trouble makers. RE: Jennifer Kimbell: I'm frankly surprised at her reaction to Rob's question. Back in their salad days, I was able to see the story pretty regularly, and both Jonatha and Jennifer always knew my name, extended some kindnesses toward me, seemed to be very nice people. Jonatha could be a little, mmmm, "salty" in her speech but, then again, so can I. If Jenn has a problem with SW, it has to be over something she was told, since she never gigged with her. Maybe she was just having a bad day. As to definitions of "folk" music, if Dar Williams and Richard Shindell, and the Nields are folk, then so is Susan. In spades. I hear shades of John Hurt in "I can't let you in", Elizabeth Cotton in "Last of the Good Straight Girls" (the finger picked version). Folk techniques are applied in a lot of Susan's work. In the end result, I like to avoid the whole issue by referring to the genre as "singer/songwriter" which is indisputable and avoids the sometimes emotional debate about what is "Folk". If there is resistance to Susan in the folk community, it may revolve around the fact that Susan is, by current standards, a better musician (guitarist, pianist, singer) and a more "in your face" performer than the "peace, love, dove" crowd of s/s that is currently making waves. I can think of one major performer that regularly forgets the words, or the chords, or starts the song in the wrong key. So much so that the "cute" repartee surrounding these screw ups has become an integral part of the act. If I shell out $20 to see a performer do 10 tunes and an encore or two in a 75 minute show, they better freakin' know the words. "Well, ya know, OK" doesn't cut it as snappy patter with me. And although I do enjoy this performer's tunes, I find the whole schtick a little artificial. News from the outside: The folk djs have been playing TBT a lot, and i'm seeing whisps of AAA play as well. The whole CD is getting airplay, but TBT (the song) seems to be getting the most right now. Call your local station and request your favorite! Charlie Sweeney (=}===# Virtual Guitarist-Something Black charlies@voicenet.com http://www.voicenet.com/~charlies "Caught in my struggle for higher achievement and my search for love, that don't seem to cease" ...Joni Mitchell HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at songs.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 15:11:02 -0400 From: Christopher Russell Subject: Re: the whole folk thing and news from the outside Charlie Sweeney wrote: > > accusing Susan of being ambitious. Last time this was a crime was in Shakespeare's Julius Caesar. > If there is resistance to Susan in the folk community, it may revolve > around the fact that Susan is, by current standards, a better musician >(guitarist, pianist, singer) Ahhh Jealousy. This is the root of it I think. I have a friend in the Neilds. I am close with Eddie From Ohio. I've seen Dar, Shawn, Mary CC, Nanci, Lyle, etc, live and quite frankly Susan brings more to the table than all of them. I am not taking away from these other performers, Susan simply has a greater aresenal of talent. She is Mozart and they are all Salieri. HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at songs.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 18:34:57 EDT From: SNAFUZone@aol.com Subject: To Believe... Several months ago I turned to this list during a difficult time with my father who had prostate cancer. For reasons unknown to me at the time, I was drawn to Susan and her music. As luck would have it, she was performing locally. It was just what I needed. She touched me more than any other musician I had ever seen. I loved all her songs, but the tune that affected me the most by far was I Still Believe. It gave me the strength to be "the rock" for my family and to keep my father's spirit alive when I felt like I was dying inside. Her shows gave me more to look forward to than the pain and heartache I faced every day. Last night I attended a candlelight ceremony at The Cancer Institute of New Jersey in memory of my father who passed away on August 15, 1998. Today was THE MARCH on Washington to demand more funding and to make prevention, treatment, and cure national priorities. My father's name now rests on the Wall of Courage. I truly hope this war is won. I didn't need this experience to tell me what's really important. If only the rest of society shared that wisdom. After what I've been through, I don't really believe in much at all. 'Tis a sad day indeed. It doesn't matter to me what category Susan is in. Her depth of craft eliminates the need for any labels. Susan is great music and a kind soul. That's all that matters. I ask you all to take a moment to count your blessings, to remember those souls who are no longer with us, and to honor those who continue to fight. In loving memory of Charles Thomas Elliott 1935 - 1998 Susan Elliott HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at songs.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 20:04:59 -0500 From: Charisse Lowe Subject: Re: Folk and Susan At 04:14 AM 9/26/1998 -0000, you wrote: >Hi all, > >Folk is Folk. >How's that? Hi Charlie, I like the way you think! If only the record stores would just file everything in alphabetical order. Then people wouldn't get so hung up on labels. I consider what Susan and Dee, Nancy and Chapin, Joni and James, David Wilcox, Ellis Paul and all the rest of that group as contemporary folk. They are writing aand singing about our times. A hundred years from now some young fiddler may be playing Time Between Trains as a folk standard. The purists give me a lot of heartburn. Bill Staines for example, and I consider him to be a wonderful songwriter, thinks the internet is not a good thing, either. Labels hurt people. When my husband and I go to Borders or Barnes & Noble we find people oddly categorized. Joni Mitchell, in POP. Susan in Folk. Robert Earl Keen and Mary Chapin in Country. Right... My 5 cents... "People in Hell all want ice water" Lightnin' Hopkins ________________________________________________________ Charisse "Toto We're Not In South Carolina Anymore" Lowe HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at songs.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 23:19:03 +0000 From: rbhoff@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: the whole folk thing and news from the outside On 26 Sep 98 at 15:11, Christopher Russell wrote: > Ahhh Jealousy. This is the root of it I think. You really think so? My favorite performer in the s/s category is forever mentioning other artists he likes, and recommending their cds. I've come to hate that stupid feeling when he asks if I've heard yet another of *his* favorites and I have to say no! Robin rbhoff@ix.netcom.com NJ, USA "There'll be no butter in hell!" -- Cold Comfort Farm HELP! owner-believers@smoe.org Send mail to believers@smoe.org Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at songs.com ------------------------------ End of believers-digest V2 #152 ******************************* --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------- This has been a posting from the Susan Werner believers-digest To unsubscribe send mail to Majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe believers-digest" in the body of the message