From: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org (believers-digest) To: believers-digest@smoe.org Subject: believers-digest V1 #29 Reply-To: believers@smoe.org Sender: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-believers-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk believers-digest Friday, September 19 1997 Volume 01 : Number 029 In Today's believer's digest: ----------------- RE: liberation? [Fred Ingham ] Re: liberation? [Leslie Dreyer Kalra ] Any Good shows in Phili area 10/2-5 [duncan ] Re: September dates [dee zed stroke zero one five ] Re:Any Good shows in Phili area 10/2-5 ["Charlie Sweeney" ] Re: Any Good shows in Phili area 10/2-5 [Carolyn Andre ] liberation and run for your lives [Sherlyn Koo ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:41:28 -0700 From: Fred Ingham Subject: RE: liberation? The actual line you're referring to is: A beautiful thing, liberation lets you write your ticket to Hell (not Heaven) I always thought that Susan was referring to the initial premise of the song, where she says: I could throw my things together hustle for the train pay my weight in silver for the last seat on that west-bound train I would fidget in the taxi pray I find him in get down right there on my knees but where would I begin One interpretation is that, her longing to return to the man she used to love doesn't reflect well on her (i.e. - she should be strong, she should know better than to go back to that failed relationship, etc.) I think the more likely explanation is revealed by the lyric in the next verse: There were eyes that seemed to reach me other arms that opened wide there were lips that seemed to know me it was bottled up inside me it was winter up in Boston it was springtime in DC it was June in Chattanooga it was much too much for me It sounds like she is referring to the temptation of others - "other arms that opened wide", and "lips that seemed to know me". These could be the temptations of people the singer meets on the road. The temptation was "too much for me". So, she took "liberation" - either dropping the relationship first, or gave in to temptation and ruined the original relationship by infidelity. In the first verse, she said she would "get down right there on my knees, but where would I begin" - she wants to ask for forgiveness. She has realized that "liberation" is a ticket to hell, not happiness, and she regrets leaving the man she used to love. Her infidelity, and weakness in leaving the relationship, indeed does not reflect well on her. The last line: there's a preacher on the tv hollerin' girl I told you so Confirms that what she did, infidelity, and leaving a loving relationship, was wrong in the eyes of at least one TV preacher. Fred -----Original Message----- From: Sherlyn Koo [SMTP:sherlyn@fl.net.au] Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 1997 8:04 PM To: believers@smoe.org Subject: liberation? Hey everyone, I was listening to LotGSG on my way in to work this morning (nothing unusual there), and I was thinking about this lyric, from "Man I Used to Love": "A beautiful thing, liberation Lets you write your ticket to heaven Offer your own explanation But the fact is This does not reflect too well on me" Does this mean that other womens' liberation doesn't reflect well on the narrator? I got the impression that the narrator has already left the man she used to love, so why's she complaining about liberation? Or am I missing the point? Probably. :) sherlyn --- Sherlyn Koo - sherlyn@fl.net.au [Currently at work or someplace.] --> I will be AWAY from around September 25th to October 5th <-- "But the wall came down, and there they stood before me, With their stumbling and their mumbling and their calling out, Just like me..." - Dar Williams - -*********************************************************************** ************** -This has been a posting from the Susan Werner "believers" list -To unsubscribe send mail to Majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe believers"in the body of the message. -To post to the list send mail to believers@smoe.org -To reach a human, send to charlies@voicenet.com -Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at songs.com - -*********************************************************************** ************** - -************************************************************************************* - -This has been a posting from the Susan Werner "believers" list - -To unsubscribe send mail to Majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe believers"in the body of the message. - -To post to the list send mail to believers@smoe.org - -To reach a human, send to charlies@voicenet.com - -Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at songs.com - -************************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:27:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Leslie Dreyer Kalra Subject: Re: liberation? > "A beautiful thing, liberation > Lets you write your ticket to heaven > Offer your own explanation > But the fact is > This does not reflect too well on me" > > Does this mean that other womens' liberation doesn't > reflect well on the narrator? I got the impression > that the narrator has already left the man she used > to love, so why's she complaining about liberation? > Or am I missing the point? > No, I think what she's saying is, liberation is supposed to be this great thing, so what the h-e-double-hockey-sticks am I doing going back to the man I used to love? The fact that I'm being weak and thinking about going back to him does not reflect too well on me... Leslie Dreyer Kalra Techies, Inc. lbd@techiesinc.com - -************************************************************************************* - -This has been a posting from the Susan Werner "believers" list - -To unsubscribe send mail to Majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe believers"in the body of the message. - -To post to the list send mail to believers@smoe.org - -To reach a human, send to charlies@voicenet.com - -Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at songs.com - -************************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 17:58:45 From: duncan Subject: Any Good shows in Phili area 10/2-5 I will be in Philidelphia for a long weekend October 2 through 5. Since it doesn't look like SW will be playing :( I was wondering if anyone can recommend any good acoustic, folk, or other interesting shows going on. I suppose there are many of you on the list from the Philidelphia area. So that this post is not totally NSWC (No Susan Werner Content) I will give my brief introduction. I live in Des Moines, IA. Not far from Susan's old stomping grounds. I have been listening for a few years now, but have only been able to see her live once. My favorite SW story is about the time I saw her play. It was at a small bar in Des Moines. It was a little bit noisy. Lots of people in the back that were not very appreciative. Not a great setting for a show, but a great show none the less. After the show I was getting my CD autographed and I asked her when she would be back to Iowa again. She said she was having a hard time finding a good venue. I said maybe next time she could play the Civic Center (~5000 capacity). She laughed and said maybe someday. Well a few months later, there she was at the Civic Center opening for Joan Armatrading. On a related note, I have not seen much mention of SW boot tapes here. Does anyone tape her live? or do any good radio shows exist? If taping is not approved on the list, please forgive my ignorance. - --Derek - -************************************************************************************* - -This has been a posting from the Susan Werner "believers" list - -To unsubscribe send mail to Majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe believers"in the body of the message. - -To post to the list send mail to believers@smoe.org - -To reach a human, send to charlies@voicenet.com - -Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at songs.com - -************************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:49:25 -0400 From: dee zed stroke zero one five Subject: Re: September dates also sprach Charlie Sweeney: > Welcome to all the new subscribers to believers, don't forget to >introduce yourselves. awwww, do i hafta? ;) i see a couple familiar-looking addresses here, but here goes.... my name isn't woj, but nearly everyone calls me that, so i will too. i first heard of susan on one of the few good radio stations in new york (wfuv, for those who know about these things), but didn't really listen until i caught one of her appearances on the world cafe right after the release of _last of the good straight girls_. basically, susan's wittiness and the way she expressed herself while talking with david dye charmed the socks off my earwigs and set me straight regarding her songs as well. the first time i saw susan play live was at the 1996 falcon ridge (the birth of svetlana). i enjoyed it so much that my better half and i allowed sherlyn koo to talk us into driving down to the turning point to see susan's show there the next night. fortunately, the turning point was on our way home and sherlyn was already planning on staying with us for the next couple days. it was also fortunate, but expected, that the show was well worth the slight detour off the tappan zee. we've only seen her play one other time since then (at the outpost in the burbs in montclair, nj), so we're looking forward to the turning point show at the end of september...and are toying with driving up to pawling for the towne crier gig as well.... +w - -************************************************************************************* - -This has been a posting from the Susan Werner "believers" list - -To unsubscribe send mail to Majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe believers"in the body of the message. - -To post to the list send mail to believers@smoe.org - -To reach a human, send to charlies@voicenet.com - -Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at songs.com - -************************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 22:09:49 +0000 From: "Charlie Sweeney" Subject: Re:Any Good shows in Phili area 10/2-5 Hi believers, Derek writes: >On a related note, I have not seen much mention of SW boot tapes >here. Does anyone tape her live? or do any good radio shows exist? >If taping is not approved on the list, please forgive my ignorance. This is not an ignorant question at all, I don't recall it coming up before. Just a note about boots. It is the stated position of Susan's management that they are against bootlegs. I am not the cyber police, and this list is as unmoderated as I can make it. You should be aware that Susan's management does read this list. And that's all I have to say on the subject. Derek also requested info on shows in Philly. At the risk of being shamelessly self-promoting, you could come visit my band (check my homepage for the schedule) and it won't cost you a cent (other than the beer). Our lead singer, Courtney Malley, will be joining us for a gig at the Jarrettown Hotel in Dresher PA on Friday night. E me for directions. Musi-cal has a search engine at http://www.musi-cal.com which can be searched by city, venue, or performer. This shows Dave von Ronk at the Cherry Tree Music co-op on Sunday, Oct 5th. I'll see what else I can find for you! C-ya Your Friendly List Janitor, Charlie Sweeney (=}===# Virtual Guitarist-Something Black charlies@voicenet.com http://www.voicenet.com/~charlies Join Susan's maillist-"believers" at: http://www.voicenet.com/~charlies/swmail.htm "Passion's always half impossibility the lovers that we lose we never dare to forget we visit them in mourning in December and in May in the graveyard of St Mary's of regret" .....Susan Werner - -************************************************************************************* - -This has been a posting from the Susan Werner "believers" list - -To unsubscribe send mail to Majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe believers"in the body of the message. - -To post to the list send mail to believers@smoe.org - -To reach a human, send to charlies@voicenet.com - -Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at songs.com - -************************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 22:52:26 From: Carolyn Andre Subject: Re: liberation? At 10:27 AM 9/18/97 -0400, Leslie wrote, re: Sherlyn's question: >> "A beautiful thing, liberation >> Lets you write your ticket to heaven <--[hell] >> Offer your own explanation <--*OR** offer your own explanation >> But the fact is >> This does not reflect too well on me" >> >> Does this mean that other womens' liberation doesn't >> reflect well on the narrator? I got the impression >> that the narrator has already left the man she used >> to love, so why's she complaining about liberation? >> Or am I missing the point? >> > >No, I think what she's saying is, liberation is supposed >to be this great thing, so what the h-e-double-hockey-sticks >am I doing going back to the man I used to love? The fact >that I'm being weak and thinking about going back to him does not >reflect too well on me... I also have always "read" those lines in that same vein - the narrator is disappointed in herself - in how she has chosen to *use* the liberation. She's observing that "liberation" ("women's" or otherwise) sounds like a good thing, but it isn't all its cracked up to be. It may well be freedom to act, but it is still only what we choose to make of it - and she 'liberated' herself from the relationship, but finds herself still addicted to that person, and memories of that relationship. ... liberation does mean freedom to do as we choose. But it doesn't give us special insights (or brains) on how to do that choice. (probably because I've a rather jaundiced or cynical outlook on things myself, and saying: "boy look at me! liberation is supposed to be this great thing - make your own decisions - or at least be able to explain how things turned out according to my own perspective. Give it to me, and all *I* can do with it is end up with the person I needed to leave!" rather fits my views of how life works, at times ) Regards, Carolyn Andre - ------------------- Chicago, IL / USA | Support Independent Music! Use the Internet candre@mcs.net | Carolyn's House of Music: http://house-of-music.com - -************************************************************************************* - -This has been a posting from the Susan Werner "believers" list - -To unsubscribe send mail to Majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe believers"in the body of the message. - -To post to the list send mail to believers@smoe.org - -To reach a human, send to charlies@voicenet.com - -Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at songs.com - -************************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 22:29:24 From: Carolyn Andre Subject: Re: Any Good shows in Phili area 10/2-5 At 05:58 PM 9/18/97, Duncan wrote: >I will be in Philidelphia for a long weekend October 2 through 5. Since it >doesn't look like SW will be playing :( I was wondering if anyone can >recommend any good acoustic, folk, or other interesting shows going on. I >suppose there are many of you on the list from the Philidelphia area. coincidentally, in the same "mail run" I received the following from the FOLKVENUE mailing list: >I'll gladly jump into the maelstrom...Kate Campbell will appear in a House >Concert for the TurtleDove Folk Club (1 hour W. of Phila.) at 8PM on Oct. >4th. For reservations and info., call 610/384-9624 > >Todd Tyson >Artistic Director definition here: a "house concert" is just about that - an artist is hosted by a person in their (often large, sometimes a renovated barn) house - their own living room. You do have to call and make a reservation. There is usually a nominal contribution requested for the snacks/beverages provided. and they *literally* are a chance to hear a musician in someone's living room! Kate is a distinct "taste" - not Susan, but a talented singer-songwriter I was introduced to by some Internet friends. On my website I describe her music as: "Campbell's material reminds me of "the levee meets bluegrass"; her own introduction to her album, "Songs From the Levee", credits the writings of Eudora Welty, particularly "One Writer's Beginnings". (possibly familiar to fans of Mary Chapin Carpenter as the writer and book which sparked Carpenter's "Halley Came To Jackson"). ... " there is a depth yet 'down home' comfort to the stories she conveys in music - and she manages to recreate visual, nearly tactile, images, stories, and memories of lives I never lived (and places I may not have visited since I was 10 :-) that *seem* like I know them. If you've got web access, her website is at: http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~ac490/kate.html Regards, Carolyn Andre - ------------------- Chicago, IL / USA | Support Independent Music! Use the Internet candre@mcs.net | Carolyn's House of Music: http://house-of-music.com - -************************************************************************************* - -This has been a posting from the Susan Werner "believers" list - -To unsubscribe send mail to Majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe believers"in the body of the message. - -To post to the list send mail to believers@smoe.org - -To reach a human, send to charlies@voicenet.com - -Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at songs.com - -************************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 13:57:54 +1000 (EST) From: Sherlyn Koo Subject: liberation and run for your lives Hey folks, Thanks for all your input on my liberation question. I'm a doofus for getting the lyrics wrong! Of course, it's "ticket to hell", not "ticket to heaven" - that's what you get for trying to write email while simultaneously pretending to work and being forced to listen to "easy listening" radio I guess... Anyway, thanks for all the posts. I'm still formulating my thoughts, but I'm getting closer to understanding the song. On to more terrifying things - I see Woj Has Arrived. Oh no!! Haha. woj, you're a freak. :) woj said: > the first time i saw susan play live was at the 1996 falcon ridge (the > birth of svetlana). i enjoyed it so much that my better half and i allowed > sherlyn koo to talk us into driving down to the turning point to see Don't believe him folks - I didn't have to talk that hard to get them to agree. :) woj was even kind enough to put up with Paul Kim and I hollering in his ears all the way through Svetlana's set at Falcon Ridge. We must have been insufferable, but he suffered us. :) Yay, woj. Well, I'd better get back to work (or get to work, as it were, since I haven't done a single thing all day so far). Hehe. :) sherlyn (in a wacky mood) - --- Sherlyn Koo - sherlyn@fl.net.au [Currently at work or someplace.] - --> I will be AWAY from around September 25th to October 5th <-- "But the wall came down, and there they stood before me, With their stumbling and their mumbling and their calling out, Just like me..." - Dar Williams - -************************************************************************************* - -This has been a posting from the Susan Werner "believers" list - -To unsubscribe send mail to Majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe believers"in the body of the message. - -To post to the list send mail to believers@smoe.org - -To reach a human, send to charlies@voicenet.com - -Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at songs.com - -************************************************************************************* ------------------------------ End of believers-digest V1 #29 ****************************** -************************************************************************************* -This has been a posting from the Susan Werner "believers" list -To unsubscribe send mail to Majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe believers-digest" in the body of the -message. -To post to the list send mail to believers@smoe.org -To reach a human, send to charlies@voicenet.com -Susan's CD's are available on your desktop at songs.com -*************************************************************************************