From: owner-basia-digest@smoe.org (basia-digest) To: basia-digest@smoe.org Subject: basia-digest V10 #122 Reply-To: basia@smoe.org Sender: owner-basia-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-basia-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "basia-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. basia-digest Sunday, May 15 2005 Volume 10 : Number 122 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: The Sweetest Illusion [Leslie Osborn ] RE: The Sweetest Illusion [Leslie Osborn ] RE: The Sweetest Illusion [bcouil@comcast.net] RE: The Sweetest Illusion [Bill Roberts ] Re: The Sweetest Illusion [J3SITE@aol.com] Re: The Sweetest Illusion [Bill Roberts ] Re: The Sweetest Illusion [J3SITE@aol.com] Re: The Sweetest Illusion ["Lonnie Gunter" ] RE: The Sweetest Illusion ["Steve O'Hearn" ] Re: The Sweetest Illusion ["Barry" ] RE: The Sweetest Illusion [Leslie Osborn ] Re: Astrud (was The Sweetest Illusion) [Leslie Osborn ] Re: Astrud (was The Sweetest Illusion) ["Greg Kain" ] Re: Astrud (was The Sweetest Illusion) [Leslie Osborn ] RE: The Sweetest Illusion ["Desianto F. W." ] RE: Astrud ["Barry" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 22:59:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Leslie Osborn Subject: Re: The Sweetest Illusion > A fan? a fan? you have to do better than > that.... "funnily" sounds > like a word I would use... in other words... is it a > word? ;-D Oh yes, I think we can say it is! LOL! Also, If Mark > tours again with Basia then would it be "Mark > Twain?" It depends if we get to say it in the Sooooooul Train! voice! Steve... the > "Mark" thing... that was real cute. Get the > picture of you and > Basia on the site. Yeah! Also, can we see Leslie > anywhere????? MUST SEE LESLIE > ! ! ! ! Haha! I have a lovely photo and I've been trying to get time to put them all up. After the week where I was very distracted by the shows (which was a welcome reprieve from not being a team player, as I was told today :-/ ) I've been laden with magazine layouts and such. Pretty in-demand for being apparently difficult to work with, as they said in that warm and fuzzy California hippie way.. but I digress ;-P This weekend I hope to have at least the written stuff up. Photos and my own accounts will have to wait! It has been so much fun to share this > incredible tour with you all. > Having had 6 children it was like "expecting" for a > long long long time and > finally getting to see the bundle of joy. It was > wonderful to get to > meet some of you. The tour was a blast, just reading email alone. Then I got to see the shows and well, cloud nine anyone? - -- Leslie O. "People around the world want the same thing- wanting to love and be loved. The rest is just bulls---" Basia, Melody Maker, 1990 Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 23:18:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Leslie Osborn Subject: RE: The Sweetest Illusion > Geez, excuse me for breathing. I stand slapped, > er, corrected. As is stated in the interview, > that misconception is a common one. I'd guess > that Bebel would be honored by that mistake. No one is slapping anyone. I was just talking. > It should also be pointed out that all of the > graphics, which you describe as "hideously ugly" > were done by Astrud herself. She clearly takes a > personal interest in her "face", as presented on the > internet. She "gets it", but her life probably > does not revolve around her website. That's great, but if something is ugly nothing wrong with saying so. It's just my opinion! So haughty this evening, Bill! Lighten up! - -- Leslie O. "People around the world want the same thing- wanting to love and be loved. The rest is just bulls---" Basia, Melody Maker, 1990 Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 09:22:27 +0000 From: bcouil@comcast.net Subject: RE: The Sweetest Illusion > > Geez, excuse me for breathing. I stand slapped, > > er, corrected. As is stated in the interview, > > that misconception is a common one. I'd guess > > that Bebel would be honored by that mistake. > > No one is slapping anyone. I was just talking. > > > It should also be pointed out that all of the > > graphics, which you describe as "hideously ugly" > > were done by Astrud herself. She clearly takes a > > personal interest in her "face", as presented on the > > internet. She "gets it", but her life probably > > does not revolve around her website. > > That's great, but if something is ugly nothing wrong > with saying so. It's just my opinion! > > So haughty this evening, Bill! Lighten up! > That is a cop out, plain and simple. You are the one who was all frazzled at the the thought that Danny reads this stuff. Gee, what was that? A whole week ago. I'm sure that Basia would be thrilled that you feel that there is nothing wrong with insulting one of the great singers of our time, with the justification that it's ok because it's your opinion. One lesson that you have obviously not figured out about this internet thing is that just because someone is not right in front of you does not make it ok to badmouth or insult them. That return key is the most powerful weapon of this day and age and it's consequences deserve respect. You did a very nice job on the Basia site and deserve a lot of credit for it. But, how you can figure that it's ok to disrespect anyone like you did is really incredible. You are welcome to call me anything you like. Considering the source, it will not bother me. But to say what you did about any person, or their work, is a shame and a discredit to this group. If you think there is nothing wrong with it, you need to get some help. Everyone, including me, makes mistakes and I will always do what needs to be done to make it right. But, when the mistake is pretty clearly mean, and then you try to rationalize it, that is just wrong. There is no good reason to say what you did - none. Some things are better kept to yourself. How would you like it if someone described your work as you did of Astrud's? If you were sitting in a room with her right now, would you say the same thing? I doubt it. This list is unmoderated, so the reality is that anything goes. That does not mean that anything you say is socially or morally acceptable. The end result is that you will be judged by the readers of this forum. Show some respect, for yourself, if no one else. Last, but not least, if you are going to reply to someone's comments, at least have the courtesy to leave them all in. Editing to reinforce your point of view or to remove something you don't like is pretty weak. - -- Bill > > > -- Leslie O. > > "People around the world want the same thing- > wanting to love and be loved. > The rest is just bulls---" > Basia, Melody Maker, 1990 > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > Geez, excuse me for breathing. I stand slapped, > > er, corrected. As is stated in the interview, > > that misconception is a common one. I'd guess > > that Bebel would be honored by that mistake. > > No one is slapping anyone. I was just talking. > > > It should also be pointed out that all of the > > graphics, which you describe as "hideously ugly" > > were done by Astrud herself. She clearly takes a > > personal interest in her "face", as presented on the > > internet. She "gets it", but her life probably > > does not revolve around her website. > > That's great, but if something is ugly nothing wrong > with saying so. It's just my opinion! > > So haughty this evening, Bill! Lighten up! > > > > -- Leslie O. > > "People around the world want the same thing- > wanting to love and be loved. > The rest is just bulls---" > Basia, Melody Maker, 1990 > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 07:27:04 -0500 From: Bill Roberts Subject: RE: The Sweetest Illusion Look I know I am in no position to complain about flame wars, having participated in the previous one, but can we all calm down a bit? First of all, it is one thing to say someone's work is ugly, it is quite another to say someone is a horrible artist and should never work again, or whatever. A person's opinion about a particular piece or work is perfectly acceptable, within bounds. I didn't see anything about Leslie's comment that went overboard. Second, just because someone corrects a mistake, it should not be taken as a personal attack. Leslie corrected the mistake in a non-attack manner. So Bill, from this other Bill...chill. Bill R. Quoting "" : > > > > Geez, excuse me for breathing. I stand slapped, > > > er, corrected. As is stated in the interview, > > > that misconception is a common one. I'd guess > > > that Bebel would be honored by that mistake. > > > > No one is slapping anyone. I was just talking. > > > > > It should also be pointed out that all of the > > > graphics, which you describe as "hideously ugly" > > > were done by Astrud herself. She clearly takes a > > > personal interest in her "face", as presented on the > > > internet. She "gets it", but her life probably > > > does not revolve around her website. > > > > That's great, but if something is ugly nothing wrong > > with saying so. It's just my opinion! > > > > So haughty this evening, Bill! Lighten up! > > > That is a cop out, plain and simple. You are the one who was all > frazzled at the the thought that Danny reads this stuff. Gee, what > was that? A whole week ago. I'm sure that Basia would be thrilled > that you feel that there is nothing wrong with insulting one of the > great singers of our time, with the justification that it's ok because it's > your opinion. One lesson that you have obviously > not figured out about this internet thing is that just because someone > is not right in front of you does not make it ok to badmouth or insult > them. That return key is the most powerful weapon of this day and > age and it's consequences deserve respect. You did a very nice job on > the Basia site and deserve a lot of credit for it. But, how you can > figure > that it's ok to disrespect anyone like you did is really incredible. You > are > welcome to call me anything you like. Considering the source, it will > not bother me. But to say what you did about any person, or their > work, > is a shame and a discredit to this group. If you think there is > nothing wrong with it, you need to get some help. > > Everyone, including me, makes mistakes and I will always do what needs to > be done to make it right. But, when the mistake is pretty clearly > mean, and then you try to rationalize it, that is just wrong. There is > no > good reason to say what you did - none. Some things are better kept > to yourself. How would you like it if someone described your work as > you did of Astrud's? If you were sitting in a room with her right now, > would you say the same thing? I doubt it. > > This list is unmoderated, so the reality is that anything goes. That does > not > mean that anything you say is socially or morally acceptable. The end > result > is that you will be judged by the readers of this forum. Show some > respect, > for yourself, if no one else. > > Last, but not least, if you are going to reply to someone's comments, at > least have > the courtesy to leave them all in. Editing to reinforce your point of > view or to > remove something you don't like is pretty weak. > > -- Bill > > > > > > -- Leslie O. > > > > "People around the world want the same thing- > > wanting to love and be loved. > > The rest is just bulls---" > > Basia, Melody Maker, 1990 > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > Geez, excuse me for breathing. I stand slapped, > > > er, corrected. As is stated in the interview, > > > that misconception is a common one. I'd guess > > > that Bebel would be honored by that mistake. > > > > No one is slapping anyone. I was just talking. > > > > > It should also be pointed out that all of the > > > graphics, which you describe as "hideously ugly" > > > were done by Astrud herself. She clearly takes a > > > personal interest in her "face", as presented on the > > > internet. She "gets it", but her life probably > > > does not revolve around her website. > > > > That's great, but if something is ugly nothing wrong > > with saying so. It's just my opinion! > > > > So haughty this evening, Bill! Lighten up! > > > > > > > > -- Leslie O. > > > > "People around the world want the same thing- > > wanting to love and be loved. > > The rest is just bulls---" > > Basia, Melody Maker, 1990 > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 08:45:11 EDT From: J3SITE@aol.com Subject: Re: The Sweetest Illusion At last! The voice of reason. ~Joe~ In a message dated 5/14/05 8:27:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, whroberts@iquest.net writes: > Look I know I am in no position to complain about flame wars, having > participated in the previous one, but can we all calm down a bit? > > First of all, it is one thing to say someone's work is ugly, it is quite > another to say someone is a horrible artist and should never work again, or > whatever. A person's opinion about a particular piece or work is perfectly > acceptable, within bounds. I didn't see anything about Leslie's comment > that > went overboard. > > Second, just because someone corrects a mistake, it should not be taken as a > > personal attack. Leslie corrected the mistake in a non-attack manner. > > So Bill, from this other Bill...chill. > > Bill R. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 09:25:19 -0500 From: Bill Roberts Subject: Re: The Sweetest Illusion Are you trying to start something AGAIN? I would like to emphasize the phrase, "within bounds". Get it? Quoting "" : > > At last! The voice of reason. > > ~Joe~ > > In a message dated 5/14/05 8:27:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > whroberts@iquest.net writes: > > > > Look I know I am in no position to complain about flame wars, having > > participated in the previous one, but can we all calm down a bit? > > > > First of all, it is one thing to say someone's work is ugly, it is quite > > another to say someone is a horrible artist and should never work again, or > > > whatever. A person's opinion about a particular piece or work is perfectly > > > acceptable, within bounds. I didn't see anything about Leslie's comment > > that > > went overboard. > > > > Second, just because someone corrects a mistake, it should not be taken as > a > > > > personal attack. Leslie corrected the mistake in a non-attack manner. > > > > So Bill, from this other Bill...chill. > > > > Bill R. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 10:51:18 EDT From: J3SITE@aol.com Subject: Re: The Sweetest Illusion I "get it". But, do you? ~Joe~ In a message dated 5/14/05 10:26:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, whroberts@iquest.net writes: > Are you trying to start something AGAIN? > > I would like to emphasize the phrase, "within bounds". Get it? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 12:21:02 -0400 From: "Lonnie Gunter" Subject: Re: The Sweetest Illusion I feel like starting every post with "having had six children" when I hear this. Last time, I described the back and forth fighting as being like the worst day of parenting when you are ready to change religions and start to cuss.... (from a religious non-cussing person) Oh.. that reminds me... when one of my sons friends heard me talking about Basia and bad language in music he said "You mean to tell me she does not have ONE cuss word in any of her songs?" To which I replied that intelligent people don't need to cuss... they can find other ways to express a negative feeling or situation. After the conversation I did think to myself 'Unless some of the Polish words are considered swear words....there are none in her music." Leslie... no need to defend yourself... some people are contentious in life and some are not. Opinions are mind stretching and just fun to read. You don't need to agree with everything said. Ugly is in the eye of the beholder. I do know that I have enjoyed some pretty ugly things in my life made by a child who was expressing love. One of my sons made something for Basia that was not that perfectly made but it made me feel loved that he would want to make it for her just because he saw me doing something for her. With understanding this world is one beautiful place to live. I just love everybody and everything... I live in "la la land..." Funny Thelma - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 10:51 AM Subject: Re: The Sweetest Illusion > > I "get it". But, do you? > > ~Joe~ > > In a message dated 5/14/05 10:26:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > whroberts@iquest.net writes: > > > > Are you trying to start something AGAIN? > > > > I would like to emphasize the phrase, "within bounds". Get it? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 11:55:22 -0400 From: "Steve O'Hearn" Subject: RE: The Sweetest Illusion Very interesting - thank you Barry and everyone who educated me on Astrud, I had no idea! > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-basia@smoe.org [mailto:owner-basia@smoe.org]On Behalf Of > Barry > Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 5:12 PM > To: basia@smoe.org > Subject: RE: The Sweetest Illusion > > > > OH MY GOODNESS!!! > > > Ok, kids, I'm ignorant - who IS Astrud? > > Have you heard of "The Girl From Ipanema"? That is her signature > song. She > is as talented as Basia, just a different style. She is a musical goddess > like Basia. She is one of the best performers to ever grace the planet. > Like Basia. > > http://www.astrudgilberto.com/ > > > Check her out. > > Barry > > > "Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and > leave a trail." - Ralph Waldo Emerson ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 13:29:11 -0500 From: "Barry" Subject: Re: The Sweetest Illusion We all have to start somewhere, and we've all been there. I joking say stuff like "I can't believe you don't know who that is. Where do you live, a cave?" But I was that way once too. I first learned about Astrud because of Girl From Ipanema. There was just something about that song that hooked me from day one. I got a couple of cassettes and just loved her music. I've been thinking about her more lately, probably why I had that dream. I just picked up a copy of Astrud Gilberto's Finest Hour on CD, a greatest hits collection that is fab-u-lous. I've been listening to it daily since I got it (new for 78 cents, gotta love being a secret shopper.) I am always looking for new artists too. Sometimes, many times, I will buy one CD and won't be impressed. But every now and then I'll find that one artist that blows me away and sets me off on my nezt adventure, to find more of what they have to offer. Barry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 13:04:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Leslie Osborn Subject: RE: The Sweetest Illusion Bill C.-- You made a lot of assumptions about me that aren't the case at all. I'm just having a conversation with the occasional offhanded commnent (which is all that was). If you want to read more into it, go ahead, but you won't be right. I don't take this that seriously! But since you seem to hold a low opinion of me anyway, I too will consider the source of those comments. And that's all I've got to say about that. Real life beckons! - -- Leslie O. "People around the world want the same thing- wanting to love and be loved. The rest is just bulls---" Basia, Melody Maker, 1990 __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 13:15:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Leslie Osborn Subject: Re: Astrud (was The Sweetest Illusion) > I've been thinking about her more lately, probably > why I had that dream. I > just picked up a copy of Astrud Gilberto's Finest > Hour on CD, a greatest > hits collection that is fab-u-lous. I've been > listening to it daily since I > got it (new for 78 cents, gotta love being a secret > shopper.) That's so cool! I got the Verve Jazz Masters one when I was a teenager and really really curious about who 'Astrud' was. Speaking of dreams, something about her voice and the music feels like a dreamlike state. Like a lot of Brazilian music, and some of Basia's too, there's this happy-sad sort of back-and-forth. Like she's *saying* she's happy, but there's a subtext of sadness. I dunno, but it's something that I really like about Astrud's work. Although according to her site, the liner notes of that comp are completely wrong in regard to her involvement-- she actually had sang before and had a lot more musical savvy than anyone gave her credit for in the '60s. Not surprising! - -- Leslie O. "People around the world want the same thing- wanting to love and be loved. The rest is just bulls---" Basia, Melody Maker, 1990 Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 19:04:13 -0500 From: Bill Roberts Subject: Re: The Sweetest Illusion Most certainly I do get it, Joe. That is why I carefully used the phrase "within bounds". The types of things said by your side in the recent flame war were beyond reasonable bounds. So if you truly get it and you haven't apologized for being on the wrong side, then I guess that speaks volumes. But you are in no position to make any statement like you did when I was trying to help in this recent episode. That really makes it look like you still don't get it. Bill Quoting "" : > > I "get it". But, do you? > > ~Joe~ > > In a message dated 5/14/05 10:26:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > whroberts@iquest.net writes: > > > > Are you trying to start something AGAIN? > > > > I would like to emphasize the phrase, "within bounds". Get it? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 21:44:26 -0400 From: "Greg Kain" Subject: Re: Astrud (was The Sweetest Illusion) I love Astrud Gilberto, "the Girl from Ipanema". Basia did a cover of her Summer Samba (so nice) a few years ago with a band from Japan. If anyone has a link to that version, I would like to hear it again. ----- Original Message ----- From: Leslie Osborn To: basia@smoe.org Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 4:15 PM Subject: Re: Astrud (was The Sweetest Illusion) > I've been thinking about her more lately, probably > why I had that dream. I > just picked up a copy of Astrud Gilberto's Finest > Hour on CD, a greatest > hits collection that is fab-u-lous. I've been > listening to it daily since I > got it (new for 78 cents, gotta love being a secret > shopper.) That's so cool! I got the Verve Jazz Masters one when I was a teenager and really really curious about who 'Astrud' was. Speaking of dreams, something about her voice and the music feels like a dreamlike state. Like a lot of Brazilian music, and some of Basia's too, there's this happy-sad sort of back-and-forth. Like she's *saying* she's happy, but there's a subtext of sadness. I dunno, but it's something that I really like about Astrud's work. Although according to her site, the liner notes of that comp are completely wrong in regard to her involvement-- she actually had sang before and had a lot more musical savvy than anyone gave her credit for in the '60s. Not surprising! -- Leslie O. "People around the world want the same thing- wanting to love and be loved. The rest is just bulls---" Basia, Melody Maker, 1990 Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 19:33:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Leslie Osborn Subject: Re: Astrud (was The Sweetest Illusion) > I love Astrud Gilberto, "the Girl from Ipanema". > Basia did a cover of her > Summer Samba (so nice) a few years ago with a band > from Japan. If anyone has a > link to that version, I would like to hear it again. I love that version-- it's so bubblegum disco but it's so damn fun! The artist is called Taro Hakase, he is a violinist. He did a whole album of duets that this was part of, called Duets! Recently I saw the song rereleased on a new comp, when I was in Japantown. This may give you a point in which to start looking. :-) - -- Leslie O. "People around the world want the same thing- wanting to love and be loved. The rest is just bulls---" Basia, Melody Maker, 1990 __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 20:31:18 -0700 (PDT) From: "Desianto F. W." Subject: Re: The Sweetest Illusion Thelma, If I'm not wrong, as far as I can remember, the real name of "A Fan" is Nathan. Is it right, Nathan? And he's been here for sooo long, longer than I can remember.... :-) Czesc, Desianto F. W. ================================================= - --- Lonnie Gunter wrote: > > A fan? a fan? you have to do better than that.... "funnily" > sounds > like a word I would use... in other words... is it a word? Also, > If Mark > tours again with Basia then would it be "Mark Twain?" Steve... > the > "Mark" thing... that was real cute. Get the picture of you and > Basia on the site. Also, can we see Leslie anywhere????? MUST SEE > LESLIE > ! ! ! ! It has been so much fun to share this incredible tour with > you all. > Having had 6 children it was like "expecting" for a long long long > time and > finally getting to see the bundle of joy. It was wonderful to get > to > meet some of you. Thelmamamamamama __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 20:37:41 -0700 (PDT) From: "Desianto F. W." Subject: RE: The Sweetest Illusion - --- Steve O'Hearn wrote: > > Ok, kids, I'm ignorant - who IS Astrud? > > ============================= Steve, Have you already forgotten it? Where were you when we once talked about her a long time ago - when the silence era was still going on - and I even said that Astrud had ever made an appearance in an old film/movie entitled "Get Yourself a College Girl", singing "Girl From Ipanema" accompanied with Stan Getz with his complete band? Even I still have the poster of the movie. I had posted/sent it to someone here (sorry, forget the name) at that time so everybody could see it. Czesc, Desianto F. W. Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 23:07:20 -0500 From: "Barry" Subject: RE: Astrud Yeah, there is something about her work that is beyond words. Basia's is like that too, but in a different way. There are so many similarities between Basia and Astrud. Both are beautiful, talented, and unique in their own ways. Their music just does something to me. I really wish I could describe it but I can't. I really think I was born in the wrong time, I always have. I should have been born 25 years earlier, and been in the prime of my youth in the '60s. So many things about it were just incredible. But I wasn't just born in the wrong time, I was born in the wrong place. I should've been born in Europe too. But I can't change it, so I just have to grab on to what was good about that time and savor it. I can't get enough of the jazz of the '60s. It stands alone as some of the best music ever made. Ok, enough of the babbling. I could go on all night about these two wonderful ladies and their music. Barry "Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." - Ralph Waldo Emerson ------------------------------ End of basia-digest V10 #122 ****************************